Re: Surround via SPDIF with ALSA/emu10k1?
I have now been told that SPDIF cannot support more than 2 channels except with AC3 compression. Given the fact that we can send 580MBit/s over USB2.0 I would not have even remotely considered this to be the problem and find it an incredible shame that audio industry is using such a crippled standard. I have now solved my problem by buying and connecting an analog 5.1 speaker set. Unfortunately I get audible distortions when I turn both the "PCM" and "Wave" mixers to the maximum setting. I wonder if anyone can provide more insight what these controls really do and whether it's better to turn down "PCM", "Wave" or both. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Give as few orders as possible, once you've given orders on a subject, you must always give orders on that subject. - Duke Leto in Dune signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Surround via SPDIF with ALSA/emu10k1?
I have now been told that SPDIF cannot support more than 2 channels except with AC3 compression. Given the fact that we can send 580MBit/s over USB2.0 I would not have even remotely considered this to be the problem and find it an incredible shame that audio industry is using such a crippled standard. I have now solved my problem by buying and connecting an analog 5.1 speaker set. Unfortunately I get audible distortions when I turn both the PCM and Wave mixers to the maximum setting. I wonder if anyone can provide more insight what these controls really do and whether it's better to turn down PCM, Wave or both. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Give as few orders as possible, once you've given orders on a subject, you must always give orders on that subject. - Duke Leto in Dune signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Surround via SPDIF with ALSA/emu10k1?
Hi, I am desperately trying to get surround sound working here. I have - Creative Labs SB Live! 5.1 (emu10k1) card - digital/SPDIF/coaxial connection - Cambridge SoundWorks DTT2500 - linux-2.6.12.5 - alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2 Digital and analog sound basically works. I can play music on the front speakers or headphone and I can even play DVDs in DolbyDigital 5.1 with ac3 passthrough. Unfortunately I could not even get the rear/center/LFE connectors of my card to work until I discovered the following page: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=emu10k1 Now I can either enable the 'SB Live Analog/Digital Output Jack' switch and use the SPDIF connector to my DD5.1 surround system OR mute this control and access/unmute the rear/center/LFE channels. Using analog cabling is not an option as the DTT2500 has no connector for the center/LFE channels. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key lotus notes: it's not just a mail program, it's a complete denial of service attack in one box! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Surround via SPDIF with ALSA/emu10k1?
Hi, I am desperately trying to get surround sound working here. I have - Creative Labs SB Live! 5.1 (emu10k1) card - digital/SPDIF/coaxial connection - Cambridge SoundWorks DTT2500 - linux-2.6.12.5 - alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2 Digital and analog sound basically works. I can play music on the front speakers or headphone and I can even play DVDs in DolbyDigital 5.1 with ac3 passthrough. Unfortunately I could not even get the rear/center/LFE connectors of my card to work until I discovered the following page: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=emu10k1 Now I can either enable the 'SB Live Analog/Digital Output Jack' switch and use the SPDIF connector to my DD5.1 surround system OR mute this control and access/unmute the rear/center/LFE channels. Using analog cabling is not an option as the DTT2500 has no connector for the center/LFE channels. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key lotus notes: it's not just a mail program, it's a complete denial of service attack in one box! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: 2.6.12: no sound on SPDIF with emu10k1
On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 03:13 -0700, Avuton Olrich wrote: > After upgrading to 1.0.9, I thought my emu10k1 board was broken until > I toggled 'IEC958 Optical Raw' to Off. Many thanks, that did the trick! I have now tried to only load the emu10k1 driver modules and found that 2.6.12's ALSA is VERY different from all previous versions in that it does not mute all channels by default any more. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- GS/IT d-- s: a-- C UL P+>$ L++>$ E--- W+ N+ o? !K w++$ O M- V? PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP+++ t+ 5 X R- tv b- DI(+) D+ G>++ e h! !r y+ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: 2.6.12: no sound on SPDIF with emu10k1
On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 03:13 -0700, Avuton Olrich wrote: After upgrading to 1.0.9, I thought my emu10k1 board was broken until I toggled 'IEC958 Optical Raw' to Off. Many thanks, that did the trick! I have now tried to only load the emu10k1 driver modules and found that 2.6.12's ALSA is VERY different from all previous versions in that it does not mute all channels by default any more. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- GS/IT d-- s: a-- C UL P+$ L++$ E--- W+ N+ o? !K w++$ O M- V? PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP+++ t+ 5 X R- tv b- DI(+) D+ G++ e h! !r y+ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: 2.6.12: no sound on SPDIF with emu10k1
On Wed, 2005-07-27 at 16:44 -0400, Lee Revell wrote: > On Wed, 2005-07-27 at 21:46 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote: > > I cannot get my SB Live! 5.1's SPDIF (digital) output to work with > > kernel > 2.6.12. I have not changed my mixer configuration and it is > > still working when I boot 2.6.11.12 or earlier. I am using FC4 with > > alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2.FC4 installed. > > FC4 shipped a buggy ALSA version, I can't believe there are no updated > RPMs yet. > > You need a newer ALSA. alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2 is the latest update available: http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/4/x86_64/alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2.FC4.x86_64.rpm If FC4's ALSA was really broken, I wonder why it is working fine with kernel 2.6.11.12 and earlier? Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Chaos is the only form of life, order was caused by the Nazis and millions died! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
2.6.12: no sound on SPDIF with emu10k1
Hi! I cannot get my SB Live! 5.1's SPDIF (digital) output to work with kernel > 2.6.12. I have not changed my mixer configuration and it is still working when I boot 2.6.11.12 or earlier. I am using FC4 with alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2.FC4 installed. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Die Post ist eine Institution zur verteuerten Verlangsamung der Briefzustellung mit dem Ziel der Selbstabholung gegen zehnfache Gebühr. C. Northcote Parkinson signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
2.6.12: no sound on SPDIF with emu10k1
Hi! I cannot get my SB Live! 5.1's SPDIF (digital) output to work with kernel 2.6.12. I have not changed my mixer configuration and it is still working when I boot 2.6.11.12 or earlier. I am using FC4 with alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2.FC4 installed. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Die Post ist eine Institution zur verteuerten Verlangsamung der Briefzustellung mit dem Ziel der Selbstabholung gegen zehnfache Gebühr. C. Northcote Parkinson signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: 2.6.12: no sound on SPDIF with emu10k1
On Wed, 2005-07-27 at 16:44 -0400, Lee Revell wrote: On Wed, 2005-07-27 at 21:46 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote: I cannot get my SB Live! 5.1's SPDIF (digital) output to work with kernel 2.6.12. I have not changed my mixer configuration and it is still working when I boot 2.6.11.12 or earlier. I am using FC4 with alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2.FC4 installed. FC4 shipped a buggy ALSA version, I can't believe there are no updated RPMs yet. You need a newer ALSA. alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2 is the latest update available: http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/4/x86_64/alsa-lib-1.0.9rf-2.FC4.x86_64.rpm If FC4's ALSA was really broken, I wonder why it is working fine with kernel 2.6.11.12 and earlier? Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Chaos is the only form of life, order was caused by the Nazis and millions died! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: usb-storage on SMP?
It seems now that the problem was caused by my 6in1 Card Reader that identifies itself as "ID 0dda:0001 Integrated Circuit Solution, Inc.". Strange thing is that the problem went away with maxcpus=1 for my 256MB SD-Cards but not with my new 1GB SD-Card now. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Microsoft Windows(tm). A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: usb-storage on SMP?
It seems now that the problem was caused by my 6in1 Card Reader that identifies itself as ID 0dda:0001 Integrated Circuit Solution, Inc.. Strange thing is that the problem went away with maxcpus=1 for my 256MB SD-Cards but not with my new 1GB SD-Card now. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Microsoft Windows(tm). A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
tun/tap(bochs) on AMD64
Hi,
I am trying to get bochs to use tun/tap on x86_64, strace reveals the
following problem:
open("/dev/net/tun", O_RDWR)= 7
ioctl(7, TUNSETIFF, 0x7fffe6c0) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument)
I wonder if this a tun/tap or a bochs problem. Any clues?
Tom
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tun/tap(bochs) on AMD64
Hi, I am trying to get bochs to use tun/tap on x86_64, strace reveals the following problem: open(/dev/net/tun, O_RDWR)= 7 ioctl(7, TUNSETIFF, 0x7fffe6c0) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument) I wonder if this a tun/tap or a bochs problem. Any clues? Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Linux is like a Wigwam.. No Windows, no Gates, and Apache inside. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: 2.6.11-rc3 x86-64 compile err on suse 9.1
Same problem here on Fedora Core 3, I have put my .config and make output at http://www.hostmaster.org/~thomasz/linux-2.6.11-rc3/ Tom PS: Tyan Thunder K8W - works great! -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Prohibiting cryptography to prevent terrorism is as meaningful as ...prohibiting mumming to prevent bank robbery! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: 2.6.11-rc3 x86-64 compile err on suse 9.1
Same problem here on Fedora Core 3, I have put my .config and make output at http://www.hostmaster.org/~thomasz/linux-2.6.11-rc3/ Tom PS: Tyan Thunder K8W - works great! -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Prohibiting cryptography to prevent terrorism is as meaningful as ...prohibiting mumming to prevent bank robbery! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: usb-storage on SMP?
I forgot to mention that I am using a 2.6.10 kernel but will try 2.6.11rc1 soon. Are you using a SMP system? I assume the cabling, card reader and SD card are OK because the problem went away with maxcpus=1, the problem must be in the USB ehci/ohci/storage drivers. Do you know if there is any difference between addressing external hard disks and SD cards? Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Microsoft Windows(tm). A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
usb-storage on SMP?
Hi, can anyone confirm that writing to usb-storage devices is working on SMP systems? Especially to a SD Card in an USB 1.1 card reader attached to a 64-bit Dual Opteron with NUMA enabled? I have a noname USB 1.1 card reader that identifies itself as 0dda:0001 'Integrated Circuit Solution, Inc.' attached to a Tyan Thunder K8W (S2885) dual Opteron NUMA system. After copying data to the disk, the activity light flashes for some time and the following messages appear in syslog: 2005-01-15 13:41:39 +0100 kernel: ohci_hcd :03:00.1: urb 010068400d40 path 1 ep2out 6fce cc 6 --> status -71 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: ohci_hcd :03:00.1: GetStatus roothub.portstatus [0] = 0x00100103 PRSC PPS PES CCS 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: usb 2-1: reset full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 10 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: ohci_hcd :03:00.1: GetStatus roothub.portstatus [0] = 0x00100103 PRSC PPS PES CCS 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: usb 2-1: ep0 maxpacket = 8 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: usb 2-1: manual set_interface for iface 0, alt 0 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: scsi: Device offlined - not ready after error recovery: host 7 channel 0 id 0 lun 2 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: SCSI error : <7 0 0 2> return code = 0x5 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev sdc, sector 147093 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: printk: 310019 messages suppressed. 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sdc, logical block 147093 The system behaves as expected if I boot the kernel with 'maxcpus=1'. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Experience is what you get when you expected something else. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
usb-storage on SMP?
Hi, can anyone confirm that writing to usb-storage devices is working on SMP systems? Especially to a SD Card in an USB 1.1 card reader attached to a 64-bit Dual Opteron with NUMA enabled? I have a noname USB 1.1 card reader that identifies itself as 0dda:0001 'Integrated Circuit Solution, Inc.' attached to a Tyan Thunder K8W (S2885) dual Opteron NUMA system. After copying data to the disk, the activity light flashes for some time and the following messages appear in syslog: 2005-01-15 13:41:39 +0100 kernel: ohci_hcd :03:00.1: urb 010068400d40 path 1 ep2out 6fce cc 6 -- status -71 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: ohci_hcd :03:00.1: GetStatus roothub.portstatus [0] = 0x00100103 PRSC PPS PES CCS 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: usb 2-1: reset full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 10 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: ohci_hcd :03:00.1: GetStatus roothub.portstatus [0] = 0x00100103 PRSC PPS PES CCS 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: usb 2-1: ep0 maxpacket = 8 2005-01-15 13:42:59 +0100 kernel: usb 2-1: manual set_interface for iface 0, alt 0 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: scsi: Device offlined - not ready after error recovery: host 7 channel 0 id 0 lun 2 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: SCSI error : 7 0 0 2 return code = 0x5 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev sdc, sector 147093 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: printk: 310019 messages suppressed. 2005-01-15 13:43:15 +0100 kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sdc, logical block 147093 The system behaves as expected if I boot the kernel with 'maxcpus=1'. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Experience is what you get when you expected something else. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: usb-storage on SMP?
I forgot to mention that I am using a 2.6.10 kernel but will try 2.6.11rc1 soon. Are you using a SMP system? I assume the cabling, card reader and SD card are OK because the problem went away with maxcpus=1, the problem must be in the USB ehci/ohci/storage drivers. Do you know if there is any difference between addressing external hard disks and SD cards? Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for key Microsoft Windows(tm). A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [reiserfs-list] Re: ReiserFS Oops (2.4.1, deterministic, symlink
> Since egcs-1.1.2 and gcc 2.95 miscompile the kernel strstr code dont forget > to stop those being used as well. Oh look you'll need CVS gcc to build the > kernel... ah but wait that misbuilds DAC960.c... How did you come to the conclusion that egcs-1.1.2 miscompiles the kernel? I am using gcc version egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release) for a while now and did not notice anything weird. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP signature
Re: [reiserfs-list] Re: ReiserFS Oops (2.4.1, deterministic, symlink
Since egcs-1.1.2 and gcc 2.95 miscompile the kernel strstr code dont forget to stop those being used as well. Oh look you'll need CVS gcc to build the kernel... ah but wait that misbuilds DAC960.c... How did you come to the conclusion that egcs-1.1.2 miscompiles the kernel? I am using gcc version egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release) for a while now and did not notice anything weird. Tom -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP signature
Re: SCO: "thread creation is about a thousand times faster than on native Linux"
> But if you can get rid of the stacks, and you _can_ get rid of the > stacks sometimes, then why not have one thread per widget in a GUI? Or > one thread per animated objected on a web page? Some notions of For this to work without opening up a security hole we must be able to distribute the processor timeslice for a process among all of it's threads. Please correct me if I am wrong but AFAIK this is impossible with the current scheduler logic. Tom Growing old is mandatory... growing up is optional. -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP signature
Masquerading/TCP/Keepalive
My company has recently saved the money for buying another block of IP addresses by switching to a private 10.x.x.x network and uses a linux machine for masquerading. We have had this setup in test operation for some time and I have been able to prevent TCP connections (SSH) from beeing dropped by setting a very low (120s) keepalive time on the remote machine. Now that we have completed the migration this does no longer work. According to our system administrator the only change was that he added an additional NIC to support masquerading operation. Any ideas? Tom PS: I would also be thankful if someone could tell me how to increase the TCP timeout on the masquerading gateway. Microsoft Windows(tm). A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP signature
Masquerading/TCP/Keepalive
My company has recently saved the money for buying another block of IP addresses by switching to a private 10.x.x.x network and uses a linux machine for masquerading. We have had this setup in test operation for some time and I have been able to prevent TCP connections (SSH) from beeing dropped by setting a very low (120s) keepalive time on the remote machine. Now that we have completed the migration this does no longer work. According to our system administrator the only change was that he added an additional NIC to support masquerading operation. Any ideas? Tom PS: I would also be thankful if someone could tell me how to increase the TCP timeout on the masquerading gateway. Microsoft Windows(tm). A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP signature
Re: SCO: "thread creation is about a thousand times faster than on native Linux"
> quote> SCO's Juergen Kienhoefer tells us that by mapping clone processes > quote> directly onto UnixWare's native threads, huge performance gains > quote> can be realised. "Basically thread creation is about a thousand > quote> times faster than on native Linux," he said. The performance boost > quote> could particularly benefit applications such as Domino, according > quote> to Kienhoefer. *ROTFL* As they are referring to Domino as an application that can benefit from faster thread creation they obviously do not have any clue what performance and threading is all about. I would put this in the same folder as the 'Linux is Open Source and hence cannot be secured' message before - this was /dev/null here. Tom Quantum Mechanics is God's version of "Trust me." -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP signature
Re: SCO: thread creation is about a thousand times faster than on native Linux
quote SCO's Juergen Kienhoefer tells us that by mapping clone processes quote directly onto UnixWare's native threads, huge performance gains quote can be realised. "Basically thread creation is about a thousand quote times faster than on native Linux," he said. The performance boost quote could particularly benefit applications such as Domino, according quote to Kienhoefer. *ROTFL* As they are referring to Domino as an application that can benefit from faster thread creation they obviously do not have any clue what performance and threading is all about. I would put this in the same folder as the 'Linux is Open Source and hence cannot be secured' message before - this was /dev/null here. Tom Quantum Mechanics is God's version of "Trust me." -- T h o m a s Z e h e t b a u e r ( TZ251 ) PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89 mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP signature
