Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
> > If the above procmail filter doesn't work (untested) let me know > > and I will MAKE it work. Windows users - tough luck - procmail > > is open source - hire someone to port it... This procmail rule has caught all the mail, never slipped even one in the last year: :0 * ^Sender: linux-kernel-owner@.*\.kernel\.org linux-kernel Chipzz AKA Jan Van Buggenhout -- -- UNIX isn't dead - It just smells funny [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
> > if you use an MUA that can't do filtering, well then there's something > wrong with you I really don't believe there is any need for this kind of attitude. /Mike - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Mike A. Harris wrote: > If the above procmail filter doesn't work (untested) let me know > and I will MAKE it work. Windows users - tough luck - procmail > is open source - hire someone to port it... and even windows users can filter properly. netscape allows you to add custom headers to filter on. So absolutely no problems for netscape users. Those tied to outlook (as i was when i worked at compaq, until i found an exchange server that did imap) also have no need to complain as i managed to get it to filter l-k without problems -> use the outlook "Ru1eZ W1z4Rd" to setup a filter to catch anything "sent from linux-kernel@..." and then another filter to look for the l-k list info text included at the bottom of every mail. (this rule should be last.) hey presto, l-k neatly filtered away with Outlook. if you use an MUA that can't do filtering, well then there's something wrong with you --paulj - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > I haven't complained about any of this on the list until now, because > I know I'm in the minority and I don't expect most people to care > about my problems. But it bothered me seeing the criticism Mike > Harrold has gotten for his request. Not everyone has problems because > they're lazy. Some of us are boxed in by decisions that are beyond > our control. For my part, if anyone can tell me a method (that > doesn't require Notes administrator assistance) to get my mail, with > headers intact, out of Notes and into elm or pine, I'd be ecstatic. If your employer can't run a decent mail system - they lock you into crap clients, don't add X-rbl-warning headers for ORBS-listed hosts, or they can't manage to set up a reliable and efficient mail system - or maybe you'd just be embarrassed to post to technical fora from a domain with only one MX record - then just don't use it. Use a personal account elsewhere for all mail which isn't strictly confidential. It works for me. -- dwmw2 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
"Mike A. Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >What is right: > >1) not putting the thing in the subject from the list side >2) If an end user wants it in the subject, they can set up a mail >filter to PUT it in the subject. > >:0 fwh >* ^Sender:.*owner-linux-kernel >| sed -e 's/^Subject: /Subject: [lkml]/' >:0 A: >lkml > >The above filter should add [lkml] to your subject line. So why >try to force it on everyone? The other lists to which I subscribe (SAG-L and HP3000-L) don't force it on everyone. Each subscriber can turn the extra subject tags on or off whenever they please. I have them turned on, so the listserver tacks them on each message that is mailed to me. People who have this option turned off (the default) never see them. >If the above procmail filter doesn't work (untested) let me know >and I will MAKE it work. Windows users - tough luck - procmail >is open source - hire someone to port it... My employer chose Lotus Notes for our email system. All incoming messages go to a Notes server. In order to read them, I have to run a Notes client to connect to the server. As far as I know, there is no way to use another mail reader to access the Notes email database on the server. So, although I run Linux on my laptop, I have to run Notes (under wine) to access my mail. There is no way to filter on headers; in fact, the ONLY headers I can see are To, cc, and Subject. (OK, I can, after opening a message, select "Delivery Information" from a menu, and then scroll through the other headers in a four line by 50 character window; but I have to do this for each message, one at a time, after they reach my inbox. There's no way to search for text in any of these headers, either.) Even if I save the messages to disk (by "exporting" them), I still get only those three headers. I can sort the list of messages in my inbox by sender or by date, but not by subject. So I usually just read everything in FIFO order, without even looking at the subject, hitting the delete key within a couple of seconds for any message that doesn't interest me. After finishing with all the messages, I use the extra tags in the Subject line to (visually) separate the messages I want to keep and move them into separate folders for each mailing list. I always leave the lkml messages till last, because without the extra tags I have to pay special attention to keep them separate from my regular (non-mailing-list) email. As far as I'm concerned, Notes is a lousy mail client. Very little can be configured by the user. The only option for quoted replies simply appends the entire message to the bottom of the reply. (I had to cut and paste your text and add the ">" characters and the "Mike Harris wrote:" line manually.) I can't even set it to automatically forward my mail to my personal email account if I'm out of town. That requires a request to a Notes administrator to do it for me, and I have to ask him to change it back when I return. Plus, when the mail is auto-forwarded it is deleted from my Notes inbox, so if the administrator is slow about turning off auto-forwarding then I don't see any of my business email at work and have to wait until I can access my personal account from home. I haven't complained about any of this on the list until now, because I know I'm in the minority and I don't expect most people to care about my problems. But it bothered me seeing the criticism Mike Harrold has gotten for his request. Not everyone has problems because they're lazy. Some of us are boxed in by decisions that are beyond our control. For my part, if anyone can tell me a method (that doesn't require Notes administrator assistance) to get my mail, with headers intact, out of Notes and into elm or pine, I'd be ecstatic. Wayne - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Timur Tabi wrote: >> Which is retarded. The subject line is for the subject. Other >> headers exist for letting one know where they came from. > >There's only one problem with this. It assumes that for every >mailing list you are on, you will have a folder into which all >such email is placed. No it does not. You are free to filter your mail however you wish. I put all the "caudium" lists into one folder for example. These lists unfortunately put the stupid [caudium-blah] in the subject, but I now can filter it out. If I want to look at just a specific list, I can use PINE's search feature. >I subscribe to about 35 mailing lists, many of which have low >traffic. I subscribe to 90+ lists, many of which are low traffic. >I don't want to create a separate folder for each list. Nor do I. >Because most of these mailing lists are on Yahoo Groups, I get >a nice prefix to each subject line that tells me the mailing >list. If that is important to you, and is the default for the list, cool. >In can then filter all of these messages into one folder. So >instead of having to scan 20 folders, I only need to scan one. You can do the same wether or not the subject contains the list name. It is very simple. >The point I'm trying to make is that there are perfectly valid >reasons to include some text on the subject line to indicate >the mailing list. I have yet to hear a single good reason. Any reasons I've heard any time in the last 7 years, have NOT been good reasons because the reasons given always have another way of doing the EXACT same thing, only without abusing the subject header. Give me a good reason, and I'll give you an alternate way of achieving the same thing - without messing up the subject. >People who feel this way may be in the majority, but then >again, people who use Linux are also in the majority. Does >that make them wrong or "retarded"? No. Read what I said again. I never said anyone was retarded at all. I said specifically: "Which is retarded" refering to the process of a list putting the name on the subject header. What I am trying to say is that there are better ways of doing the exact same things, without abusing the DEFINITIONS of a given header. To illustrate further, consider instead of using the subject header if mailing lists put the list name in the DATE header. Date: [linux-kernel] Jan 12, 2000 Pretty dumb eh? And annoying. And, you cant read the date in index mode because all you see is: 419 [linux-k Timur Tabi (3,617) Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line Can't see the date because the dumb list puts the listname in the date field! No different for subject. Here is an example: N 69 Jan 29 David Hedbor(3,446) [caudium-commits] CVS: caudium/server So when I look at the index, to scan which messages might be interesting, by looking at the subject - which has the purpose of summarizing the content/context of the message, I see 60% bullshit, and 14 characters of subject. In order to get any useful meaning I must read every message just to see a useful part of the subject. Either that or use a 160 column video mode instead of 80. Why? Because someone sets a list to put the damn list name in the subject, because some user can't learn how to use an email filter properly. What is right: 1) not putting the thing in the subject from the list side 2) If an end user wants it in the subject, they can set up a mail filter to PUT it in the subject. :0 fwh * ^Sender:.*owner-linux-kernel | sed -e 's/^Subject: /Subject: [lkml]/' :0 A: lkml The above filter should add [lkml] to your subject line. So why try to force it on everyone? If the above procmail filter doesn't work (untested) let me know and I will MAKE it work. Windows users - tough luck - procmail is open source - hire someone to port it... -- Mike A. Harris - Linux advocate - Free Software advocate This message is copyright 2001, all rights reserved. Views expressed are my own, not necessarily shared by my employer. -- Windows 95(n) - 32-bit extensions and graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
** Reply to message from "Mike A. Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Tue, 13 Feb 2001 03:53:13 -0500 (EST) > >I disagree, and while I may be in the minority on this list, I am certainly > >not in the minority across the board, given that virtually every mailing list > >I am subscribed to DOES prepend a tag to the subject line. > > Which is retarded. The subject line is for the subject. Other > headers exist for letting one know where they came from. There's only one problem with this. It assumes that for every mailing list you are on, you will have a folder into which all such email is placed. I subscribe to about 35 mailing lists, many of which have low traffic. I don't want to create a separate folder for each list. Because most of these mailing lists are on Yahoo Groups, I get a nice prefix to each subject line that tells me the mailing list. In can then filter all of these messages into one folder. So instead of having to scan 20 folders, I only need to scan one. The point I'm trying to make is that there are perfectly valid reasons to include some text on the subject line to indicate the mailing list. People who feel this way may be in the majority, but then again, people who use Linux are also in the majority. Does that make them wrong or "retarded"? No. -- Timur Tabi - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interactive Silicon - http://www.interactivesi.com When replying to a mailing-list message, please direct the reply to the mailing list only. Don't send another copy to me. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
> > On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Mike Harrold wrote: > > >> Those would all be your problems and I would suggest using a different account > >> for mail then. > > > >Out of interest, how would that solve anything? So I use an ISP instead. > >Then I have to download all my mail to home to read it. Talk about a > >total waste of time. > > > >It's hard enough tracking my mail as it is, let alone having to have another > >account just to handle a certain mailing list. > > 2 words: Your problem. Many have suggested solutions, but > you're playing the "I don't care, I want it my way and I don't > care what you say" game, of which nobody is going to budge on, > especially for one single person who is being unreasonable. Errr, you're jumping to a few conclusions here. Thanks to some off-list emails I have a solution in place that allows me to filter the list quite adequately thank you. Maybe you should read ALL the mails on a topic before responding (and then having to respons 5 times)? Regards, /Mike - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Mike Harrold wrote: >> Those would all be your problems and I would suggest using a different account >> for mail then. > >Out of interest, how would that solve anything? So I use an ISP instead. >Then I have to download all my mail to home to read it. Talk about a >total waste of time. > >It's hard enough tracking my mail as it is, let alone having to have another >account just to handle a certain mailing list. 2 words: Your problem. Many have suggested solutions, but you're playing the "I don't care, I want it my way and I don't care what you say" game, of which nobody is going to budge on, especially for one single person who is being unreasonable. >> This discussion happens on every mailing list occasionally, and it is just a >> generally bad idea, period. > >I disagree, and while I may be in the minority on this list, I am certainly >not in the minority across the board, given that virtually every mailing list >I am subscribed to DOES prepend a tag to the subject line. Which is retarded. The subject line is for the subject. Other headers exist for letting one know where they came from. >> Especially for a list which is as often crossposted to as lk. > >This I can buy. But it is, IMHO, the only valid argument against doing so. Exactly IYHO. Nobody else - at least nobody that matters agrees with you. >> Can we now move on? > >Of course. Wouldn't want to interrupt our regular traffic for too long :) Why not. Might as well get it all out now, it has been at least 6 months since this topic came up. -- Mike A. Harris - Linux advocate - Free Software advocate This message is copyright 2001, all rights reserved. Views expressed are my own, not necessarily shared by my employer. -- Looking for Linux software? http://freshmeat.net http://www.rpmfind.net http://filewatcher.org http://www.coldstorage.org http://sourceforge.net - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Mike Harrold wrote: > > Those would all be your problems and I would suggest using a different account > > for mail then. > > Out of interest, how would that solve anything? So I use an ISP instead. > Then I have to download all my mail to home to read it. Talk about a > total waste of time. > > It's hard enough tracking my mail as it is, let alone having to have another > account just to handle a certain mailing list. > Put procmail on the other account .. make it modify the subject as you wish then forward the mail to your regular account. Gerhard -- Gerhard Mack [EMAIL PROTECTED] <>< As a computer I find your faith in technology amusing. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://vger.kernel.org/lkml/
[LK] Re: lkml subject line
> > On 2001-02-12T11:56:00, >Mike Harrold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > > Maybe I don't *want* the LKML messages in a seperate folder. > > Maybe I just want to identify them at a pinch in my inbox? > > You can use procmail to modify the subject line of incoming mail too. > > > Maybe my employer doesn't allow me to install additional software anyway? > > Those would all be your problems and I would suggest using a different account > for mail then. Out of interest, how would that solve anything? So I use an ISP instead. Then I have to download all my mail to home to read it. Talk about a total waste of time. It's hard enough tracking my mail as it is, let alone having to have another account just to handle a certain mailing list. > This discussion happens on every mailing list occasionally, and it is just a > generally bad idea, period. I disagree, and while I may be in the minority on this list, I am certainly not in the minority across the board, given that virtually every mailing list I am subscribed to DOES prepend a tag to the subject line. > Especially for a list which is as often crossposted to as lk. This I can buy. But it is, IMHO, the only valid argument against doing so. > Can we now move on? Of course. Wouldn't want to interrupt our regular traffic for too long :) /Mike - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://vger.kernel.org/lkml/
