Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Peter Zijlstra wrote: > > but I have an increasing seek error rate as well. I got the ST disk > because thinkwiki suggested it. > Apparently Seagate has their own definition of seek error rate. Large numbers are normal, or at least very common. Now I wonder if they have their own way of doing retract count... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Peter Zijlstra wrote: but I have an increasing seek error rate as well. I got the ST disk because thinkwiki suggested it. Apparently Seagate has their own definition of seek error rate. Large numbers are normal, or at least very common. Now I wonder if they have their own way of doing retract count... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 17:27 -0400, Chuck Ebbert wrote: > Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: > > On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: > >> Mark Lord wrote: > >>> Mark Lord wrote: > With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those > S.M.A.R.T. > attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). > >>> Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) > >>> The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. > >>> > >>> It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, > >>> which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. > >>> > >> Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the "old" > >> IDE drivers... > > > > The issue you are experiencing results in the same problem (disk doing > > power off retract) but it has a totally different root cause - your notebook > > loses power on reboot. It is actually a hardware problem and as you have > > reported the same problem is present when using "the other" OS. > > > > My "power off retract count" increases whether I do a halt/poweroff or > a reboot. The only difference is the volume of the noise. > > And I just noticed my "seek error rate" is increasing. > > /me plans purchase of another drive, definitely not Seagate... > > > I think that the issue needs to be fixed (by detecting affected notebook(s) > > using DMI?) in Linux PM handling and not in IDE subsystem because: > > > > * there may be some other hardware devices affected by the power loss > > (== they require shutdown sequence) > > > > * the same problem will bite if somebody decides to use libata (FC7?) > > Yeah, this needs fixing too. I've been playing with another notebook and > the power does stay on during reboot, so I wonder how widespread the problem > is? /me too Thinkpad T23, with a ST980815A Ticks ever few seconds, but seems to mostly go away with hdparm -B255 /dev/sda1 but I have an increasing seek error rate as well. I got the ST disk because thinkwiki suggested it. I suspect this problem killed the previous disk in this laptop. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Jan, mine does not pop running Linux but only during the shutdown. As I wrote before, switching from PATA to IDE has solved the problem for me. Regards, Fabio On 4/21/07, Jan Engelhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Apr 20 2007 21:57, Fabio Comolli wrote: > > hda: TOSHIBA MK8025GAS, ATA DISK drive MK...? These sort of disks do that stupid pop. Mine -- a MK2003GAH -- does it even while running Linux, if the disk is _idle_. See http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/11/15/413 - hope it provides some pointers. Regards, Jan -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
>On Apr 20 2007 21:57, Fabio Comolli wrote: > > hda: TOSHIBA MK8025GAS, ATA DISK drive MK...? These sort of disks do that stupid pop. Mine -- a MK2003GAH -- does it even while running Linux, if the disk is _idle_. See http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/11/15/413 - hope it provides some pointers. Regards, Jan -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Hi. On 4/21/07, emisca <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So, removing -d halt option solves this problem? According to the halt manpage, -n implies -d (in other words, -d is not removed at all). Regards, Fabio - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
So, removing -d halt option solves this problem? 2007/4/20, Fabio Comolli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Bingo! I switched from ata_piix.c to piix_ide.c and the "pop" disappeared. I must say that the "pop" also disappeared after suspending to disk using suspend2 (obviously without executing halt -n -h -p) . In both cases it was present with the previous setup. This is with a pure PATA setup with no SATA ports and the disk is: hda: TOSHIBA MK8025GAS, ATA DISK drive Many thanks! regards, Fabio On 4/19/07, Chuck Ebbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Stephen Clark wrote: > > Mark Lord wrote: > > > >> Mark Lord wrote: > >> > >> > >>> With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those > >>> S.M.A.R.T. > >>> attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). > >>> > >> > >> Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) > >> The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. > >> > >> It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, > >> which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. > >> > >> Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. > >> > >> Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: > >> > >>case ATA_16: > >> + dev->needs_sync_cache = 1; > >> > >> Ie. comment out that last "dev->needs_sync_cache" line. > >> > >> > > No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my > > Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. > > > > I found a solution of sorts on Fedora 6: > > > Edit /etc/rc0.d/S01halt, changing the third-from-last line so it reads: > > HALTARGS="-d -h -n" > > Then use the halt(8) command to shut down and turn off the power manually. > No click and the "retract" counter does not increment. (Even this procedure > incremented the counter until I changed the script.) > > Seems safe, using the IDE drivers, since they sync the cache anyway. > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
So, removing -d halt option solves this problem? 2007/4/20, Fabio Comolli [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Bingo! I switched from ata_piix.c to piix_ide.c and the pop disappeared. I must say that the pop also disappeared after suspending to disk using suspend2 (obviously without executing halt -n -h -p) . In both cases it was present with the previous setup. This is with a pure PATA setup with no SATA ports and the disk is: hda: TOSHIBA MK8025GAS, ATA DISK drive Many thanks! regards, Fabio On 4/19/07, Chuck Ebbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Clark wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: case ATA_16: + dev-needs_sync_cache = 1; Ie. comment out that last dev-needs_sync_cache line. No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. I found a solution of sorts on Fedora 6: Edit /etc/rc0.d/S01halt, changing the third-from-last line so it reads: HALTARGS=-d -h -n Then use the halt(8) command to shut down and turn off the power manually. No click and the retract counter does not increment. (Even this procedure incremented the counter until I changed the script.) Seems safe, using the IDE drivers, since they sync the cache anyway. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Hi. On 4/21/07, emisca [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, removing -d halt option solves this problem? According to the halt manpage, -n implies -d (in other words, -d is not removed at all). Regards, Fabio - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
On Apr 20 2007 21:57, Fabio Comolli wrote: hda: TOSHIBA MK8025GAS, ATA DISK drive MK...? These sort of disks do that stupid pop. Mine -- a MK2003GAH -- does it even while running Linux, if the disk is _idle_. See http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/11/15/413 - hope it provides some pointers. Regards, Jan -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Jan, mine does not pop running Linux but only during the shutdown. As I wrote before, switching from PATA to IDE has solved the problem for me. Regards, Fabio On 4/21/07, Jan Engelhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 20 2007 21:57, Fabio Comolli wrote: hda: TOSHIBA MK8025GAS, ATA DISK drive MK...? These sort of disks do that stupid pop. Mine -- a MK2003GAH -- does it even while running Linux, if the disk is _idle_. See http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/11/15/413 - hope it provides some pointers. Regards, Jan -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 17:27 -0400, Chuck Ebbert wrote: Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the old IDE drivers... The issue you are experiencing results in the same problem (disk doing power off retract) but it has a totally different root cause - your notebook loses power on reboot. It is actually a hardware problem and as you have reported the same problem is present when using the other OS. My power off retract count increases whether I do a halt/poweroff or a reboot. The only difference is the volume of the noise. And I just noticed my seek error rate is increasing. /me plans purchase of another drive, definitely not Seagate... I think that the issue needs to be fixed (by detecting affected notebook(s) using DMI?) in Linux PM handling and not in IDE subsystem because: * there may be some other hardware devices affected by the power loss (== they require shutdown sequence) * the same problem will bite if somebody decides to use libata (FC7?) Yeah, this needs fixing too. I've been playing with another notebook and the power does stay on during reboot, so I wonder how widespread the problem is? /me too Thinkpad T23, with a ST980815A Ticks ever few seconds, but seems to mostly go away with hdparm -B255 /dev/sda1 but I have an increasing seek error rate as well. I got the ST disk because thinkwiki suggested it. I suspect this problem killed the previous disk in this laptop. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Bingo! I switched from ata_piix.c to piix_ide.c and the "pop" disappeared. I must say that the "pop" also disappeared after suspending to disk using suspend2 (obviously without executing halt -n -h -p) . In both cases it was present with the previous setup. This is with a pure PATA setup with no SATA ports and the disk is: hda: TOSHIBA MK8025GAS, ATA DISK drive Many thanks! regards, Fabio On 4/19/07, Chuck Ebbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Stephen Clark wrote: > Mark Lord wrote: > >> Mark Lord wrote: >> >> >>> With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those >>> S.M.A.R.T. >>> attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). >>> >> >> Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) >> The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. >> >> It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, >> which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. >> >> Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. >> >> Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: >> >>case ATA_16: >> + dev->needs_sync_cache = 1; >> >> Ie. comment out that last "dev->needs_sync_cache" line. >> >> > No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my > Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. > I found a solution of sorts on Fedora 6: Edit /etc/rc0.d/S01halt, changing the third-from-last line so it reads: HALTARGS="-d -h -n" Then use the halt(8) command to shut down and turn off the power manually. No click and the "retract" counter does not increment. (Even this procedure incremented the counter until I changed the script.) Seems safe, using the IDE drivers, since they sync the cache anyway. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Chuck Ebbert wrote: Stephen Clark wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: case ATA_16: + dev->needs_sync_cache = 1; Ie. comment out that last "dev->needs_sync_cache" line. No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. I found a solution of sorts on Fedora 6: Edit /etc/rc0.d/S01halt, changing the third-from-last line so it reads: HALTARGS="-d -h -n" Then use the halt(8) command to shut down and turn off the power manually. No click and the "retract" counter does not increment. (Even this procedure incremented the counter until I changed the script.) Seems safe, using the IDE drivers, since they sync the cache anyway. Hi Chuck, I got a chance to try this and it works for me also. No pop and my retract counter does not increment. Steve -- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin) "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Chuck Ebbert wrote: Stephen Clark wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: case ATA_16: + dev-needs_sync_cache = 1; Ie. comment out that last dev-needs_sync_cache line. No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. I found a solution of sorts on Fedora 6: Edit /etc/rc0.d/S01halt, changing the third-from-last line so it reads: HALTARGS=-d -h -n Then use the halt(8) command to shut down and turn off the power manually. No click and the retract counter does not increment. (Even this procedure incremented the counter until I changed the script.) Seems safe, using the IDE drivers, since they sync the cache anyway. Hi Chuck, I got a chance to try this and it works for me also. No pop and my retract counter does not increment. Steve -- They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. (Ben Franklin) The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Bingo! I switched from ata_piix.c to piix_ide.c and the pop disappeared. I must say that the pop also disappeared after suspending to disk using suspend2 (obviously without executing halt -n -h -p) . In both cases it was present with the previous setup. This is with a pure PATA setup with no SATA ports and the disk is: hda: TOSHIBA MK8025GAS, ATA DISK drive Many thanks! regards, Fabio On 4/19/07, Chuck Ebbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Clark wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: case ATA_16: + dev-needs_sync_cache = 1; Ie. comment out that last dev-needs_sync_cache line. No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. I found a solution of sorts on Fedora 6: Edit /etc/rc0.d/S01halt, changing the third-from-last line so it reads: HALTARGS=-d -h -n Then use the halt(8) command to shut down and turn off the power manually. No click and the retract counter does not increment. (Even this procedure incremented the counter until I changed the script.) Seems safe, using the IDE drivers, since they sync the cache anyway. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Stephen Clark wrote: > Mark Lord wrote: > >> Mark Lord wrote: >> >> >>> With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those >>> S.M.A.R.T. >>> attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). >>> >> >> Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) >> The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. >> >> It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, >> which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. >> >> Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. >> >> Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: >> >>case ATA_16: >> + dev->needs_sync_cache = 1; >> >> Ie. comment out that last "dev->needs_sync_cache" line. >> >> > No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my > Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. > I found a solution of sorts on Fedora 6: Edit /etc/rc0.d/S01halt, changing the third-from-last line so it reads: HALTARGS="-d -h -n" Then use the halt(8) command to shut down and turn off the power manually. No click and the "retract" counter does not increment. (Even this procedure incremented the counter until I changed the script.) Seems safe, using the IDE drivers, since they sync the cache anyway. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Stephen Clark wrote: It is definitely the disk drive. It is located in the right front corner of my laptop so I put my ear by it during shutdown and that is where the click is coming from. Isn't there also a speaker located there? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
From the debian etch 4.0 /etc/init.d/halt script: # Don't shut down drives if we're using RAID. hddown="-h" if grep -qs '^md.*active' /proc/mdstat then hddown="" fi # If INIT_HALT=HALT don't poweroff. poweroff="-p" if [ "$INIT_HALT" = "HALT" ] then poweroff="" fi # Make it possible to not shut down network interfaces, # needed to use wake-on-lan netdown="-i" if [ "$NETDOWN" = "no" ]; then netdown="" fi log_action_msg "Will now halt" halt -d -f $netdown $poweroff $hddown So it will always call halt -d when doing shutdown. I've also noticed that doing suspend to disk, the drive don't spins up two times. Next shutdown I'll try to remove the -d option and I'll report what it does 2007/4/19, Chuck Ebbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Robert Hancock wrote: > Tejun Heo wrote: >> This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. >> libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does >> it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue >> SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... >> >> 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW > > This part is presumably distribution dependent. I have never seen Fedora > or CentOS shut down drives on power down from the shutdown script/utility.. > Some distro shutdown scripts must be doing "halt -h" at shutdown time. -n : don't sync cache (default is to sync) -h : put harddrives in standby (default is no standby) And BTW not put them in sleep instead of standby (whether it's the halt program or the kernel?) They won't wake up from that until they're reset. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Apr 18 2007 09:39, Stephen Clark wrote: So this is the pop I hear on my new laptop that is using libata=combined_mode when I shut my system down. I didn't get the pop with the same disk drive in an older laptop that was only ide. It sounds like a relay closing or opening, but is really my drive head doing an emergency retract/park? Most(?) disks' heads are spring-/power-based so that whenever they lose power, the spring retracts the head back to the park zone. Whether it is the disk head or something else.. take out the disk, and retry. Might not be that easy with laptops, though. Jan It is definitely the disk drive. It is located in the right front corner of my laptop so I put my ear by it during shutdown and that is where the click is coming from. As I said before I had this same drive in another laptop that was strictly ide so it used the older ide driver and it never did this. Steve -- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin) "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
On Apr 18 2007 09:39, Stephen Clark wrote: >> > So this is the pop I hear on my new laptop that is using > libata=combined_mode when I shut my system down. I didn't get the > pop with the same disk drive in an older laptop that was only ide. > It sounds like a relay closing or opening, but is really my drive > head doing an emergency retract/park? Most(?) disks' heads are spring-/power-based so that whenever they lose power, the spring retracts the head back to the park zone. Whether it is the disk head or something else.. take out the disk, and retry. Might not be that easy with laptops, though. Jan -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
On Apr 18 2007 09:39, Stephen Clark wrote: So this is the pop I hear on my new laptop that is using libata=combined_mode when I shut my system down. I didn't get the pop with the same disk drive in an older laptop that was only ide. It sounds like a relay closing or opening, but is really my drive head doing an emergency retract/park? Most(?) disks' heads are spring-/power-based so that whenever they lose power, the spring retracts the head back to the park zone. Whether it is the disk head or something else.. take out the disk, and retry. Might not be that easy with laptops, though. Jan -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Apr 18 2007 09:39, Stephen Clark wrote: So this is the pop I hear on my new laptop that is using libata=combined_mode when I shut my system down. I didn't get the pop with the same disk drive in an older laptop that was only ide. It sounds like a relay closing or opening, but is really my drive head doing an emergency retract/park? Most(?) disks' heads are spring-/power-based so that whenever they lose power, the spring retracts the head back to the park zone. Whether it is the disk head or something else.. take out the disk, and retry. Might not be that easy with laptops, though. Jan It is definitely the disk drive. It is located in the right front corner of my laptop so I put my ear by it during shutdown and that is where the click is coming from. As I said before I had this same drive in another laptop that was strictly ide so it used the older ide driver and it never did this. Steve -- They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. (Ben Franklin) The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
From the debian etch 4.0 /etc/init.d/halt script: # Don't shut down drives if we're using RAID. hddown=-h if grep -qs '^md.*active' /proc/mdstat then hddown= fi # If INIT_HALT=HALT don't poweroff. poweroff=-p if [ $INIT_HALT = HALT ] then poweroff= fi # Make it possible to not shut down network interfaces, # needed to use wake-on-lan netdown=-i if [ $NETDOWN = no ]; then netdown= fi log_action_msg Will now halt halt -d -f $netdown $poweroff $hddown So it will always call halt -d when doing shutdown. I've also noticed that doing suspend to disk, the drive don't spins up two times. Next shutdown I'll try to remove the -d option and I'll report what it does 2007/4/19, Chuck Ebbert [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Robert Hancock wrote: Tejun Heo wrote: This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW This part is presumably distribution dependent. I have never seen Fedora or CentOS shut down drives on power down from the shutdown script/utility.. Some distro shutdown scripts must be doing halt -h at shutdown time. -n : don't sync cache (default is to sync) -h : put harddrives in standby (default is no standby) And BTW not put them in sleep instead of standby (whether it's the halt program or the kernel?) They won't wake up from that until they're reset. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Stephen Clark wrote: It is definitely the disk drive. It is located in the right front corner of my laptop so I put my ear by it during shutdown and that is where the click is coming from. Isn't there also a speaker located there? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Stephen Clark wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: case ATA_16: + dev-needs_sync_cache = 1; Ie. comment out that last dev-needs_sync_cache line. No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. I found a solution of sorts on Fedora 6: Edit /etc/rc0.d/S01halt, changing the third-from-last line so it reads: HALTARGS=-d -h -n Then use the halt(8) command to shut down and turn off the power manually. No click and the retract counter does not increment. (Even this procedure incremented the counter until I changed the script.) Seems safe, using the IDE drivers, since they sync the cache anyway. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: Tejun Heo wrote: 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Okay, after some experimentatino, it's the STANDBY_NOW that is causing the Power-Off_Retract_Count to increment on my machine. Tell me again why we think we need to issue that command ? Arghh.. okay, removing that from the code has no effect on it either. I just don't understand the problem any more, since I don't actually have it here (I think). Can somebody explain again what the issue was, when it began happening, and whatever else? And what Tejun's fix (2.6.22) does again? I've lost all of the early postings. Thanks - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo wrote: 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Okay, after some experimentatino, it's the STANDBY_NOW that is causing the Power-Off_Retract_Count to increment on my machine. Tell me again why we think we need to issue that command ? Thanks. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Robert Hancock wrote: > Tejun Heo wrote: >> This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. >> libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does >> it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue >> SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... >> >> 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW > > This part is presumably distribution dependent. I have never seen Fedora > or CentOS shut down drives on power down from the shutdown script/utility.. > Some distro shutdown scripts must be doing "halt -h" at shutdown time. -n : don't sync cache (default is to sync) -h : put harddrives in standby (default is no standby) And BTW not put them in sleep instead of standby (whether it's the halt program or the kernel?) They won't wake up from that until they're reset. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo wrote: This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW This part is presumably distribution dependent. I have never seen Fedora or CentOS shut down drives on power down from the shutdown script/utility.. 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Some drives seem to spin up at step #3 even when its cache is clean and power goes off right after the disk finishes the command. So, it's really bad when it happens - spin down, spin up followed by immediate power off. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Stephen Clark wrote: So this is the pop I hear on my new laptop that is using libata=combined_mode when I shut my system down. I didn't get the pop with the same disk drive in an older laptop that was only ide. It sounds like a relay closing or opening, but is really my drive head doing an emergency retract/park? Yes, that would be what it is, and why. I would vote that the sd stop-on-shutdown patch should go in, and possibly with the new behavior enabled by default. Surely the number of people running Linux on a laptop (or any other system with load/unload head technology drives) is much greater than the number of people running a SAN, multi-initiator, etc. environment where you might not want this.. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Stephen Clark wrote: I tried this on 2.6.20.2 it applied to libata with some fuzz and I had to manually edit libata.h When I did a shutdown I still got the click/pop. I also noticed the last thing displayed on the lcd before it goes blank is Synchronizing SCSI Disks - then the click/pop. HTH, Steve That patch on its own will not help, you also need Tejun's stop-on-shutdown patch, otherwise the kernel will not try to stop the disk before powering off. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
On 4/18/07, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: > Mark Lord wrote: > > Mark Lord wrote: > >> > >> With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those > >> S.M.A.R.T. > >> attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). > > > > Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) > > The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. > > > > It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, > > which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. > > > > Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the "old" > IDE drivers... The issue you are experiencing results in the same problem (disk doing power off retract) but it has a totally different root cause - your notebook loses power on reboot. It is actually a hardware problem and as you have reported the same problem is present when using "the other" OS. I think that the issue needs to be fixed (by detecting affected notebook(s) using DMI?) in Linux PM handling and not in IDE subsystem because: * there may be some other hardware devices affected by the power loss (== they require shutdown sequence) * the same problem will bite if somebody decides to use libata (FC7?) Bart OpenSUSE 10.3 is still in Alpha stage (at least a few months away from release), but they too have switched to libata by default. (You can override by adding a boot param). Greg -- Greg Freemyer The Norcross Group Forensics for the 21st Century - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: > On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: >> Mark Lord wrote: >>> Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). >>> Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) >>> The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. >>> >>> It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, >>> which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. >>> >> Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the "old" >> IDE drivers... > > The issue you are experiencing results in the same problem (disk doing > power off retract) but it has a totally different root cause - your notebook > loses power on reboot. It is actually a hardware problem and as you have > reported the same problem is present when using "the other" OS. > My "power off retract count" increases whether I do a halt/poweroff or a reboot. The only difference is the volume of the noise. And I just noticed my "seek error rate" is increasing. /me plans purchase of another drive, definitely not Seagate... > I think that the issue needs to be fixed (by detecting affected notebook(s) > using DMI?) in Linux PM handling and not in IDE subsystem because: > > * there may be some other hardware devices affected by the power loss > (== they require shutdown sequence) > > * the same problem will bite if somebody decides to use libata (FC7?) Yeah, this needs fixing too. I've been playing with another notebook and the power does stay on during reboot, so I wonder how widespread the problem is? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Tejun Heo wrote: > Mark Lord wrote: > > Chuck Ebbert wrote: > >> Mark Lord wrote: > >>> I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens > >>> of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? > >>> > >> > >> This is a problem with Seagate specifically, spinning back up > >> on receipt of some command after spindown? > > > > No, they just seem to be affected worse by it than some other brands. > > The bug is that libata/SCSI now spin-down the drive before the distro's > > scripts are done with it, so it spins down, and then gets spun up again > > by the distro, and then spun down again by the distro. > > > > And along the way, one/both of the two causes a full mechanism "park", > > which is hard on things if abused (like this). > > > > Or at least that's what I recall for it. Tejun? > > This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. Tejun, it is a regression over IDE subsystem (so all PATA and some SATA also). Dave/Chuck, this also seems like a FC7 regression (because of the libata PATA switch). > libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does > it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue > SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... > > 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW > 2. kernel shutdown starts > 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE > 4. power goes off > > Some drives seem to spin up at step #3 even when its cache is clean and > power goes off right after the disk finishes the command. So, it's > really bad when it happens - spin down, spin up followed by immediate > power off. > > SCSI part of the fix is queued in scsi-misc-2.6 tree and libata-dev part > is acked and waiting to be merged, so the fix will be available in > 2.6.22. However, it's disabled by default to remain compatible with the > current behavior and requires userland change to fully fix the problem. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: > Mark Lord wrote: > > Mark Lord wrote: > >> > >> With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those > >> S.M.A.R.T. > >> attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). > > > > Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) > > The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. > > > > It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, > > which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. > > > > Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the "old" > IDE drivers... The issue you are experiencing results in the same problem (disk doing power off retract) but it has a totally different root cause - your notebook loses power on reboot. It is actually a hardware problem and as you have reported the same problem is present when using "the other" OS. I think that the issue needs to be fixed (by detecting affected notebook(s) using DMI?) in Linux PM handling and not in IDE subsystem because: * there may be some other hardware devices affected by the power loss (== they require shutdown sequence) * the same problem will bite if somebody decides to use libata (FC7?) Bart - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: > Mark Lord wrote: >> >> With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those >> S.M.A.R.T. >> attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). > > Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) > The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. > > It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, > which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. > Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the "old" IDE drivers... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: case ATA_16: + dev->needs_sync_cache = 1; Ie. comment out that last "dev->needs_sync_cache" line. Cheers - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. Steve -- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin) "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: case ATA_16: + dev->needs_sync_cache = 1; Ie. comment out that last "dev->needs_sync_cache" line. Cheers - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo wrote: Mark Lord wrote: .. It would be nice if somebody who can hear the "pop" would also test this, as it will confirm that this is a complete fix for the problem. You'll probably be able to here the "pop" on sleep-to-disk. My "pop" drives are busy elsewhere right now. The system I do have to test with has a "pop", but that's from the speakers not the drive. However, the S.M.A.R.T. data was also shown earlier to provide a record of the unnecessary wear and tear. Here it is from two hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk") before patching: - 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 099 099 020Old_age Always - 1711 + 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 099 099 020Old_age Always - 1712 .. - 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 099 099 020Old_age Always - 1051 + 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 099 099 020Old_age Always - 1053 .. -192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 126 -193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 015 015 000Old_age Always - 170404 +192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 128 +193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 015 015 000Old_age Always - 170405 With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux "suspend-to-disk"). Next up, I'll try a few shutdowns and see. But we should still get Stephen Clark or one of the other reporters to confirm it on their systems. -ml - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote:
Alan Cox wrote:
+ if (dev->needs_flush && ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ dev->needs_flush = 0;
Works better if you swap the dev-> and return lines
Heh, yeah, I noticed that!
Here it is, *tested* now, with another fix.
It would be nice if somebody who can hear the "pop" would also test this,
as it will confirm that this is a complete fix for the problem.
My "pop" drives are busy elsewhere right now.
Tejun might use something like this, or do something better in libata-core,
but it's still helpful to have confirmation that we're on the right track.
This patch eliminates the redundant "SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE" request at shutdown
which is causing undue wear/tear/alarm to various systems.
Signed-off-by: Mark Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
---
--- old/include/linux/libata.h 2007-04-18 10:30:25.0 -0400
+++ linux/include/linux/libata.h2007-04-18 10:30:28.0 -0400
@@ -499,6 +499,7 @@
struct ata_eringering;
int spdn_cnt;
unsigned inthorkage;/* List of broken features */
+ int needs_sync_cache; /* 0==sync-cache not needed */
#ifdef CONFIG_SATA_ACPI
/* ACPI objects info */
acpi_handle obj_handle;
--- old/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:48:34.0 -0400
+++ linux/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:51:09.0 -0400
@@ -2749,18 +2749,20 @@
return atapi_xlat;
switch (cmd) {
- case READ_6:
- case READ_10:
- case READ_16:
-
case WRITE_6:
case WRITE_10:
case WRITE_16:
+ dev->needs_sync_cache = 1;
+ case READ_6:
+ case READ_10:
+ case READ_16:
return ata_scsi_rw_xlat;
case SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE:
- if (ata_try_flush_cache(dev))
+ if (dev->needs_sync_cache && ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
+ dev->needs_sync_cache = 0;
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ }
break;
case VERIFY:
@@ -2769,6 +2771,7 @@
case ATA_12:
case ATA_16:
+ dev->needs_sync_cache = 1;
return ata_scsi_pass_thru;
case START_STOP:
-
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I tried this on 2.6.20.2 it applied to libata with some fuzz and I had
to manually edit libata.h
When I did a shutdown I still got the click/pop.
I also noticed the last thing displayed on the lcd before it goes blank is
Synchronizing SCSI Disks - then the click/pop.
HTH,
Steve
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin)
"The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty
decreases." (Thomas Jefferson)
-
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Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote:
> Alan Cox wrote:
>>> +if (dev->needs_flush && ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
>>> return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
>>> +dev->needs_flush = 0;
>>
>> Works better if you swap the dev-> and return lines
>
> Heh, yeah, I noticed that!
>
> Here it is, *tested* now, with another fix.
>
> It would be nice if somebody who can hear the "pop" would also test this,
> as it will confirm that this is a complete fix for the problem.
You'll probably be able to here the "pop" on sleep-to-disk.
> My "pop" drives are busy elsewhere right now.
>
> Tejun might use something like this, or do something better in libata-core,
> but it's still helpful to have confirmation that we're on the right track.
Yeap, I was thinking about more conservative check but this looks simple
and sweet. :-)
--
tejun
-
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Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote:
+ if (dev->needs_flush && ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ dev->needs_flush = 0;
Works better if you swap the dev-> and return lines
Heh, yeah, I noticed that!
Here it is, *tested* now, with another fix.
It would be nice if somebody who can hear the "pop" would also test this,
as it will confirm that this is a complete fix for the problem.
My "pop" drives are busy elsewhere right now.
Tejun might use something like this, or do something better in libata-core,
but it's still helpful to have confirmation that we're on the right track.
This patch eliminates the redundant "SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE" request at shutdown
which is causing undue wear/tear/alarm to various systems.
Signed-off-by: Mark Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
---
--- old/include/linux/libata.h 2007-04-18 10:30:25.0 -0400
+++ linux/include/linux/libata.h2007-04-18 10:30:28.0 -0400
@@ -499,6 +499,7 @@
struct ata_eringering;
int spdn_cnt;
unsigned inthorkage;/* List of broken features */
+ int needs_sync_cache; /* 0==sync-cache not needed */
#ifdef CONFIG_SATA_ACPI
/* ACPI objects info */
acpi_handle obj_handle;
--- old/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:48:34.0 -0400
+++ linux/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:51:09.0 -0400
@@ -2749,18 +2749,20 @@
return atapi_xlat;
switch (cmd) {
- case READ_6:
- case READ_10:
- case READ_16:
-
case WRITE_6:
case WRITE_10:
case WRITE_16:
+ dev->needs_sync_cache = 1;
+ case READ_6:
+ case READ_10:
+ case READ_16:
return ata_scsi_rw_xlat;
case SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE:
- if (ata_try_flush_cache(dev))
+ if (dev->needs_sync_cache && ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
+ dev->needs_sync_cache = 0;
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ }
break;
case VERIFY:
@@ -2769,6 +2771,7 @@
case ATA_12:
case ATA_16:
+ dev->needs_sync_cache = 1;
return ata_scsi_pass_thru;
case START_STOP:
-
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Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
> + if (dev->needs_flush && ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
> return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
> + dev->needs_flush = 0;
Works better if you swap the dev-> and return lines
Alan
-
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Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote:
Alan Cox wrote:
If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive
shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok
safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked
This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue.
Yup. It could be as trivial as this (untested, and not as nice
as Alan's full suggestion).
Here it is again, without the borked pathnames.
Signed-off-by: Mark Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
---
--- old/include/linux/libata.h 2007-04-18 10:30:25.0 -0400
+++ linux/include/linux/libata.h2007-04-18 10:30:28.0 -0400
@@ -499,6 +499,7 @@
struct ata_eringering;
int spdn_cnt;
unsigned inthorkage;/* List of broken features */
+ int needs_flush;/* bool: 1==written since last
flush */
#ifdef CONFIG_SATA_ACPI
/* ACPI objects info */
acpi_handle obj_handle;
--- old/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-17 22:11:12.0 -0400
+++ linux/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:27:29.0 -0400
@@ -2749,18 +2749,20 @@
return atapi_xlat;
switch (cmd) {
- case READ_6:
- case READ_10:
- case READ_16:
-
case WRITE_6:
case WRITE_10:
case WRITE_16:
+ dev->needs_flush = 1;
+ case READ_6:
+ case READ_10:
+ case READ_16:
return ata_scsi_rw_xlat;
case SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE:
- if (ata_try_flush_cache(dev))
+ if (dev->needs_flush && ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ dev->needs_flush = 0;
+ }
break;
case VERIFY:
-
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Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote:
If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive
shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok
safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked
This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue.
Yup. It could be as trivial as this (untested, and not as nice
as Alan's full suggestion).
Signed-off-by: Mark Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
---
--- linux/include/linux/libata.h.orig 2007-04-18 10:30:25.0 -0400
+++ linux/include/linux/libata.h2007-04-18 10:30:28.0 -0400
@@ -499,6 +499,7 @@
struct ata_eringering;
int spdn_cnt;
unsigned inthorkage;/* List of broken features */
+ int needs_flush;/* bool: 1==written since last
flush */
#ifdef CONFIG_SATA_ACPI
/* ACPI objects info */
acpi_handle obj_handle;
--- linux/drivers/old/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-17 22:11:12.0 -0400
+++ linux/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:27:29.0 -0400
@@ -2749,18 +2749,20 @@
return atapi_xlat;
switch (cmd) {
- case READ_6:
- case READ_10:
- case READ_16:
-
case WRITE_6:
case WRITE_10:
case WRITE_16:
+ dev->needs_flush = 1;
+ case READ_6:
+ case READ_10:
+ case READ_16:
return ata_scsi_rw_xlat;
case SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE:
- if (ata_try_flush_cache(dev))
+ if (dev->needs_flush && ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ dev->needs_flush = 0;
+ }
break;
case VERIFY:
-
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Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote: Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is driven from sd->shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue. I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? Probably not, but it will take a year or so and throughout this time period everyone with the wrong combination of shutdown and kernel (which will be a lot of people who compile their own kernels) are going to have problems caused by what is a very obscure piece of libata internal behaviour they'll never even know about. So this is the pop I hear on my new laptop that is using libata=combined_mode when I shut my system down. I didn't get the pop with the same disk drive in an older laptop that was only ide. It sounds like a relay closing or opening, but is really my drive head doing an emergency retract/park? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ -- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin) "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote: Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is driven from sd->shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue. Yeah, right. I guess I'm too anal about SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? Probably not, but it will take a year or so and throughout this time period everyone with the wrong combination of shutdown and kernel (which will be a lot of people who compile their own kernels) are going to have problems caused by what is a very obscure piece of libata internal behaviour they'll never even know about. Okay, will do another round of the patch. Thanks. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
> Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown > sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is > driven from sd->shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown > commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt > very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue. > I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get > distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I > have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? Probably not, but it will take a year or so and throughout this time period everyone with the wrong combination of shutdown and kernel (which will be a lot of people who compile their own kernels) are going to have problems caused by what is a very obscure piece of libata internal behaviour they'll never even know about. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo wrote: Alan Cox wrote: Not that simple. Most disks don't spin up on SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE if its cache is clean. Sadly some disks actually spin up when it receives spin down command while spun down to immediately spin down again, so we would be fixing problem for some number of disks while breaking others. :-( Snoop the last command sent to the drive, that tells you if you can skip the cache flush ? Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is driven from sd->shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? FWIW, the the following message describes the proposed solution. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.scsi/30487/focus=17392 -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote: Not that simple. Most disks don't spin up on SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE if its cache is clean. Sadly some disks actually spin up when it receives spin down command while spun down to immediately spin down again, so we would be fixing problem for some number of disks while breaking others. :-( Snoop the last command sent to the drive, that tells you if you can skip the cache flush ? Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is driven from sd->shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
> Not that simple. Most disks don't spin up on SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE if its > cache is clean. Sadly some disks actually spin up when it receives spin > down command while spun down to immediately spin down again, so we would > be fixing problem for some number of disks while breaking others. :-( Snoop the last command sent to the drive, that tells you if you can skip the cache flush ? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Bodo Eggert wrote: SCSI part of the fix is queued in scsi-misc-2.6 tree and libata-dev part is acked and waiting to be merged, so the fix will be available in 2.6.22. However, it's disabled by default to remain compatible with the ^^^ current behavior and requires userland change to fully fix the problem. It sounds like the Schilling kind of compatibility: "The old burner destroyed your disk on buffer underruns, therefore the new thing should do the same instead of giving you a perfectly readable data disk." Guys, not destroying hardware is _NOT_ bad! Not that simple. Most disks don't spin up on SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE if its cache is clean. Sadly some disks actually spin up when it receives spin down command while spun down to immediately spin down again, so we would be fixing problem for some number of disks while breaking others. :-( -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. > libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does > it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue > SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... > > 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW > 2. kernel shutdown starts > 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE > 4. power goes off > > Some drives seem to spin up at step #3 even when its cache is clean and > power goes off right after the disk finishes the command. So, it's > really bad when it happens - spin down, spin up followed by immediate > power off. > > SCSI part of the fix is queued in scsi-misc-2.6 tree and libata-dev part > is acked and waiting to be merged, so the fix will be available in > 2.6.22. However, it's disabled by default to remain compatible with the ^^^ > current behavior and requires userland change to fully fix the problem. It sounds like the Schilling kind of compatibility: "The old burner destroyed your disk on buffer underruns, therefore the new thing should do the same instead of giving you a perfectly readable data disk." Guys, not destroying hardware is _NOT_ bad! -- Anger, fear, aggression. The Dark Side of the Force are they. Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny. -- Jedi Master Yoda Friß, Spammer: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Some drives seem to spin up at step #3 even when its cache is clean and power goes off right after the disk finishes the command. So, it's really bad when it happens - spin down, spin up followed by immediate power off. SCSI part of the fix is queued in scsi-misc-2.6 tree and libata-dev part is acked and waiting to be merged, so the fix will be available in 2.6.22. However, it's disabled by default to remain compatible with the ^^^ current behavior and requires userland change to fully fix the problem. It sounds like the Schilling kind of compatibility: The old burner destroyed your disk on buffer underruns, therefore the new thing should do the same instead of giving you a perfectly readable data disk. Guys, not destroying hardware is _NOT_ bad! -- Anger, fear, aggression. The Dark Side of the Force are they. Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny. -- Jedi Master Yoda Friß, Spammer: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Bodo Eggert wrote: SCSI part of the fix is queued in scsi-misc-2.6 tree and libata-dev part is acked and waiting to be merged, so the fix will be available in 2.6.22. However, it's disabled by default to remain compatible with the ^^^ current behavior and requires userland change to fully fix the problem. It sounds like the Schilling kind of compatibility: The old burner destroyed your disk on buffer underruns, therefore the new thing should do the same instead of giving you a perfectly readable data disk. Guys, not destroying hardware is _NOT_ bad! Not that simple. Most disks don't spin up on SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE if its cache is clean. Sadly some disks actually spin up when it receives spin down command while spun down to immediately spin down again, so we would be fixing problem for some number of disks while breaking others. :-( -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Not that simple. Most disks don't spin up on SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE if its cache is clean. Sadly some disks actually spin up when it receives spin down command while spun down to immediately spin down again, so we would be fixing problem for some number of disks while breaking others. :-( Snoop the last command sent to the drive, that tells you if you can skip the cache flush ? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote: Not that simple. Most disks don't spin up on SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE if its cache is clean. Sadly some disks actually spin up when it receives spin down command while spun down to immediately spin down again, so we would be fixing problem for some number of disks while breaking others. :-( Snoop the last command sent to the drive, that tells you if you can skip the cache flush ? Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is driven from sd-shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo wrote: Alan Cox wrote: Not that simple. Most disks don't spin up on SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE if its cache is clean. Sadly some disks actually spin up when it receives spin down command while spun down to immediately spin down again, so we would be fixing problem for some number of disks while breaking others. :-( Snoop the last command sent to the drive, that tells you if you can skip the cache flush ? Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is driven from sd-shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? FWIW, the the following message describes the proposed solution. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.scsi/30487/focus=17392 -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is driven from sd-shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue. I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? Probably not, but it will take a year or so and throughout this time period everyone with the wrong combination of shutdown and kernel (which will be a lot of people who compile their own kernels) are going to have problems caused by what is a very obscure piece of libata internal behaviour they'll never even know about. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote: Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is driven from sd-shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue. Yeah, right. I guess I'm too anal about SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? Probably not, but it will take a year or so and throughout this time period everyone with the wrong combination of shutdown and kernel (which will be a lot of people who compile their own kernels) are going to have problems caused by what is a very obscure piece of libata internal behaviour they'll never even know about. Okay, will do another round of the patch. Thanks. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote: Thought about that and querying power state before doing shutdown sequence but things get somewhat ugly because shutdown sequence is driven from sd-shutdown(). We'll have to snoop both sync and shutdown commands and check whether the system is shutting down. Also, I felt very uneasy about faking successful completion to SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE. If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue. I dunno. It's already too late for 2.6.21. I was hoping we could get distros to update shutdown utilities in not-too-distant future but I have no experience with that. Is that just a wishful thinking? Probably not, but it will take a year or so and throughout this time period everyone with the wrong combination of shutdown and kernel (which will be a lot of people who compile their own kernels) are going to have problems caused by what is a very obscure piece of libata internal behaviour they'll never even know about. So this is the pop I hear on my new laptop that is using libata=combined_mode when I shut my system down. I didn't get the pop with the same disk drive in an older laptop that was only ide. It sounds like a relay closing or opening, but is really my drive head doing an emergency retract/park? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ -- They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. (Ben Franklin) The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote:
If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive
shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok
safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked
This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue.
Yup. It could be as trivial as this (untested, and not as nice
as Alan's full suggestion).
Signed-off-by: Mark Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
--- linux/include/linux/libata.h.orig 2007-04-18 10:30:25.0 -0400
+++ linux/include/linux/libata.h2007-04-18 10:30:28.0 -0400
@@ -499,6 +499,7 @@
struct ata_eringering;
int spdn_cnt;
unsigned inthorkage;/* List of broken features */
+ int needs_flush;/* bool: 1==written since last
flush */
#ifdef CONFIG_SATA_ACPI
/* ACPI objects info */
acpi_handle obj_handle;
--- linux/drivers/old/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-17 22:11:12.0 -0400
+++ linux/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:27:29.0 -0400
@@ -2749,18 +2749,20 @@
return atapi_xlat;
switch (cmd) {
- case READ_6:
- case READ_10:
- case READ_16:
-
case WRITE_6:
case WRITE_10:
case WRITE_16:
+ dev-needs_flush = 1;
+ case READ_6:
+ case READ_10:
+ case READ_16:
return ata_scsi_rw_xlat;
case SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE:
- if (ata_try_flush_cache(dev))
+ if (dev-needs_flush ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ dev-needs_flush = 0;
+ }
break;
case VERIFY:
-
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Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote:
Alan Cox wrote:
If you see a synchronize cache succeed and you then see the drive
shutdown succeed then you know that a sync cache can be faked as ok
safely. Any other command in between or after and it doesn't get faked
This seems pretty easy to deal with at command issue.
Yup. It could be as trivial as this (untested, and not as nice
as Alan's full suggestion).
Here it is again, without the borked pathnames.
Signed-off-by: Mark Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
--- old/include/linux/libata.h 2007-04-18 10:30:25.0 -0400
+++ linux/include/linux/libata.h2007-04-18 10:30:28.0 -0400
@@ -499,6 +499,7 @@
struct ata_eringering;
int spdn_cnt;
unsigned inthorkage;/* List of broken features */
+ int needs_flush;/* bool: 1==written since last
flush */
#ifdef CONFIG_SATA_ACPI
/* ACPI objects info */
acpi_handle obj_handle;
--- old/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-17 22:11:12.0 -0400
+++ linux/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:27:29.0 -0400
@@ -2749,18 +2749,20 @@
return atapi_xlat;
switch (cmd) {
- case READ_6:
- case READ_10:
- case READ_16:
-
case WRITE_6:
case WRITE_10:
case WRITE_16:
+ dev-needs_flush = 1;
+ case READ_6:
+ case READ_10:
+ case READ_16:
return ata_scsi_rw_xlat;
case SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE:
- if (ata_try_flush_cache(dev))
+ if (dev-needs_flush ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ dev-needs_flush = 0;
+ }
break;
case VERIFY:
-
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Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
+ if (dev-needs_flush ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ dev-needs_flush = 0;
Works better if you swap the dev- and return lines
Alan
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Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Alan Cox wrote:
+ if (dev-needs_flush ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ dev-needs_flush = 0;
Works better if you swap the dev- and return lines
Heh, yeah, I noticed that!
Here it is, *tested* now, with another fix.
It would be nice if somebody who can hear the pop would also test this,
as it will confirm that this is a complete fix for the problem.
My pop drives are busy elsewhere right now.
Tejun might use something like this, or do something better in libata-core,
but it's still helpful to have confirmation that we're on the right track.
This patch eliminates the redundant SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE request at shutdown
which is causing undue wear/tear/alarm to various systems.
Signed-off-by: Mark Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
--- old/include/linux/libata.h 2007-04-18 10:30:25.0 -0400
+++ linux/include/linux/libata.h2007-04-18 10:30:28.0 -0400
@@ -499,6 +499,7 @@
struct ata_eringering;
int spdn_cnt;
unsigned inthorkage;/* List of broken features */
+ int needs_sync_cache; /* 0==sync-cache not needed */
#ifdef CONFIG_SATA_ACPI
/* ACPI objects info */
acpi_handle obj_handle;
--- old/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:48:34.0 -0400
+++ linux/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:51:09.0 -0400
@@ -2749,18 +2749,20 @@
return atapi_xlat;
switch (cmd) {
- case READ_6:
- case READ_10:
- case READ_16:
-
case WRITE_6:
case WRITE_10:
case WRITE_16:
+ dev-needs_sync_cache = 1;
+ case READ_6:
+ case READ_10:
+ case READ_16:
return ata_scsi_rw_xlat;
case SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE:
- if (ata_try_flush_cache(dev))
+ if (dev-needs_sync_cache ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
+ dev-needs_sync_cache = 0;
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ }
break;
case VERIFY:
@@ -2769,6 +2771,7 @@
case ATA_12:
case ATA_16:
+ dev-needs_sync_cache = 1;
return ata_scsi_pass_thru;
case START_STOP:
-
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Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote:
Alan Cox wrote:
+if (dev-needs_flush ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+dev-needs_flush = 0;
Works better if you swap the dev- and return lines
Heh, yeah, I noticed that!
Here it is, *tested* now, with another fix.
It would be nice if somebody who can hear the pop would also test this,
as it will confirm that this is a complete fix for the problem.
You'll probably be able to here the pop on sleep-to-disk.
My pop drives are busy elsewhere right now.
Tejun might use something like this, or do something better in libata-core,
but it's still helpful to have confirmation that we're on the right track.
Yeap, I was thinking about more conservative check but this looks simple
and sweet. :-)
--
tejun
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Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote:
Alan Cox wrote:
+ if (dev-needs_flush ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ dev-needs_flush = 0;
Works better if you swap the dev- and return lines
Heh, yeah, I noticed that!
Here it is, *tested* now, with another fix.
It would be nice if somebody who can hear the pop would also test this,
as it will confirm that this is a complete fix for the problem.
My pop drives are busy elsewhere right now.
Tejun might use something like this, or do something better in libata-core,
but it's still helpful to have confirmation that we're on the right track.
This patch eliminates the redundant SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE request at shutdown
which is causing undue wear/tear/alarm to various systems.
Signed-off-by: Mark Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
--- old/include/linux/libata.h 2007-04-18 10:30:25.0 -0400
+++ linux/include/linux/libata.h2007-04-18 10:30:28.0 -0400
@@ -499,6 +499,7 @@
struct ata_eringering;
int spdn_cnt;
unsigned inthorkage;/* List of broken features */
+ int needs_sync_cache; /* 0==sync-cache not needed */
#ifdef CONFIG_SATA_ACPI
/* ACPI objects info */
acpi_handle obj_handle;
--- old/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:48:34.0 -0400
+++ linux/drivers/ata/libata-scsi.c 2007-04-18 10:51:09.0 -0400
@@ -2749,18 +2749,20 @@
return atapi_xlat;
switch (cmd) {
- case READ_6:
- case READ_10:
- case READ_16:
-
case WRITE_6:
case WRITE_10:
case WRITE_16:
+ dev-needs_sync_cache = 1;
+ case READ_6:
+ case READ_10:
+ case READ_16:
return ata_scsi_rw_xlat;
case SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE:
- if (ata_try_flush_cache(dev))
+ if (dev-needs_sync_cache ata_try_flush_cache(dev)) {
+ dev-needs_sync_cache = 0;
return ata_scsi_flush_xlat;
+ }
break;
case VERIFY:
@@ -2769,6 +2771,7 @@
case ATA_12:
case ATA_16:
+ dev-needs_sync_cache = 1;
return ata_scsi_pass_thru;
case START_STOP:
-
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I tried this on 2.6.20.2 it applied to libata with some fuzz and I had
to manually edit libata.h
When I did a shutdown I still got the click/pop.
I also noticed the last thing displayed on the lcd before it goes blank is
Synchronizing SCSI Disks - then the click/pop.
HTH,
Steve
--
They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety. (Ben Franklin)
The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty
decreases. (Thomas Jefferson)
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Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo wrote: Mark Lord wrote: .. It would be nice if somebody who can hear the pop would also test this, as it will confirm that this is a complete fix for the problem. You'll probably be able to here the pop on sleep-to-disk. My pop drives are busy elsewhere right now. The system I do have to test with has a pop, but that's from the speakers not the drive. However, the S.M.A.R.T. data was also shown earlier to provide a record of the unnecessary wear and tear. Here it is from two hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk) before patching: - 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 099 099 020Old_age Always - 1711 + 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 099 099 020Old_age Always - 1712 .. - 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 099 099 020Old_age Always - 1051 + 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 099 099 020Old_age Always - 1053 .. -192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 126 -193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 015 015 000Old_age Always - 170404 +192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 128 +193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 015 015 000Old_age Always - 170405 With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Next up, I'll try a few shutdowns and see. But we should still get Stephen Clark or one of the other reporters to confirm it on their systems. -ml - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: case ATA_16: + dev-needs_sync_cache = 1; Ie. comment out that last dev-needs_sync_cache line. Cheers - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Now I'll poke at the shutdown again. Meanwhile, Stephen: Could you try without this line in the patched file: case ATA_16: + dev-needs_sync_cache = 1; Ie. comment out that last dev-needs_sync_cache line. Cheers - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-ide in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html No joy - even with that line commented out I get a click and my Power-Off_Retract_Count has incremented. Steve -- They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. (Ben Franklin) The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. (Thomas Jefferson) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the old IDE drivers... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the old IDE drivers... The issue you are experiencing results in the same problem (disk doing power off retract) but it has a totally different root cause - your notebook loses power on reboot. It is actually a hardware problem and as you have reported the same problem is present when using the other OS. I think that the issue needs to be fixed (by detecting affected notebook(s) using DMI?) in Linux PM handling and not in IDE subsystem because: * there may be some other hardware devices affected by the power loss (== they require shutdown sequence) * the same problem will bite if somebody decides to use libata (FC7?) Bart - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Tejun Heo wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Chuck Ebbert wrote: Mark Lord wrote: I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? This is a problem with Seagate specifically, spinning back up on receipt of some command after spindown? No, they just seem to be affected worse by it than some other brands. The bug is that libata/SCSI now spin-down the drive before the distro's scripts are done with it, so it spins down, and then gets spun up again by the distro, and then spun down again by the distro. And along the way, one/both of the two causes a full mechanism park, which is hard on things if abused (like this). Or at least that's what I recall for it. Tejun? This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. Tejun, it is a regression over IDE subsystem (so all PATA and some SATA also). Dave/Chuck, this also seems like a FC7 regression (because of the libata PATA switch). libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Some drives seem to spin up at step #3 even when its cache is clean and power goes off right after the disk finishes the command. So, it's really bad when it happens - spin down, spin up followed by immediate power off. SCSI part of the fix is queued in scsi-misc-2.6 tree and libata-dev part is acked and waiting to be merged, so the fix will be available in 2.6.22. However, it's disabled by default to remain compatible with the current behavior and requires userland change to fully fix the problem. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
On 4/18/07, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the old IDE drivers... The issue you are experiencing results in the same problem (disk doing power off retract) but it has a totally different root cause - your notebook loses power on reboot. It is actually a hardware problem and as you have reported the same problem is present when using the other OS. I think that the issue needs to be fixed (by detecting affected notebook(s) using DMI?) in Linux PM handling and not in IDE subsystem because: * there may be some other hardware devices affected by the power loss (== they require shutdown sequence) * the same problem will bite if somebody decides to use libata (FC7?) Bart OpenSUSE 10.3 is still in Alpha stage (at least a few months away from release), but they too have switched to libata by default. (You can override by adding a boot param). Greg -- Greg Freemyer The Norcross Group Forensics for the 21st Century - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: Mark Lord wrote: Mark Lord wrote: With the patch applied, I don't see *any* new activity in those S.M.A.R.T. attributes over multiple hibernates (Linux suspend-to-disk). Scratch that -- operator failure. ;) The patch makes no difference over hibernates in the SMART logs. It's still logging extra Power-Off_Retract_Count pegs, which it DID NOT USED TO DO not so long ago. Just to add to the fun, my problems are happening with the old IDE drivers... The issue you are experiencing results in the same problem (disk doing power off retract) but it has a totally different root cause - your notebook loses power on reboot. It is actually a hardware problem and as you have reported the same problem is present when using the other OS. My power off retract count increases whether I do a halt/poweroff or a reboot. The only difference is the volume of the noise. And I just noticed my seek error rate is increasing. /me plans purchase of another drive, definitely not Seagate... I think that the issue needs to be fixed (by detecting affected notebook(s) using DMI?) in Linux PM handling and not in IDE subsystem because: * there may be some other hardware devices affected by the power loss (== they require shutdown sequence) * the same problem will bite if somebody decides to use libata (FC7?) Yeah, this needs fixing too. I've been playing with another notebook and the power does stay on during reboot, so I wonder how widespread the problem is? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Stephen Clark wrote: I tried this on 2.6.20.2 it applied to libata with some fuzz and I had to manually edit libata.h When I did a shutdown I still got the click/pop. I also noticed the last thing displayed on the lcd before it goes blank is Synchronizing SCSI Disks - then the click/pop. HTH, Steve That patch on its own will not help, you also need Tejun's stop-on-shutdown patch, otherwise the kernel will not try to stop the disk before powering off. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove nospam from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Stephen Clark wrote: So this is the pop I hear on my new laptop that is using libata=combined_mode when I shut my system down. I didn't get the pop with the same disk drive in an older laptop that was only ide. It sounds like a relay closing or opening, but is really my drive head doing an emergency retract/park? Yes, that would be what it is, and why. I would vote that the sd stop-on-shutdown patch should go in, and possibly with the new behavior enabled by default. Surely the number of people running Linux on a laptop (or any other system with load/unload head technology drives) is much greater than the number of people running a SAN, multi-initiator, etc. environment where you might not want this.. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove nospam from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo wrote: This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW This part is presumably distribution dependent. I have never seen Fedora or CentOS shut down drives on power down from the shutdown script/utility.. 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Some drives seem to spin up at step #3 even when its cache is clean and power goes off right after the disk finishes the command. So, it's really bad when it happens - spin down, spin up followed by immediate power off. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove nospam from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Robert Hancock wrote: Tejun Heo wrote: This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW This part is presumably distribution dependent. I have never seen Fedora or CentOS shut down drives on power down from the shutdown script/utility.. Some distro shutdown scripts must be doing halt -h at shutdown time. -n : don't sync cache (default is to sync) -h : put harddrives in standby (default is no standby) And BTW not put them in sleep instead of standby (whether it's the halt program or the kernel?) They won't wake up from that until they're reset. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Tejun Heo wrote: 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Okay, after some experimentatino, it's the STANDBY_NOW that is causing the Power-Off_Retract_Count to increment on my machine. Tell me again why we think we need to issue that command ? Thanks. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: Tejun Heo wrote: 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Okay, after some experimentatino, it's the STANDBY_NOW that is causing the Power-Off_Retract_Count to increment on my machine. Tell me again why we think we need to issue that command ? Arghh.. okay, removing that from the code has no effect on it either. I just don't understand the problem any more, since I don't actually have it here (I think). Can somebody explain again what the issue was, when it began happening, and whatever else? And what Tejun's fix (2.6.22) does again? I've lost all of the early postings. Thanks - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: > Chuck Ebbert wrote: >> Mark Lord wrote: >>> I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens >>> of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? >>> >> >> This is a problem with Seagate specifically, spinning back up >> on receipt of some command after spindown? > > No, they just seem to be affected worse by it than some other brands. > The bug is that libata/SCSI now spin-down the drive before the distro's > scripts are done with it, so it spins down, and then gets spun up again > by the distro, and then spun down again by the distro. > > And along the way, one/both of the two causes a full mechanism "park", > which is hard on things if abused (like this). > > Or at least that's what I recall for it. Tejun? This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Some drives seem to spin up at step #3 even when its cache is clean and power goes off right after the disk finishes the command. So, it's really bad when it happens - spin down, spin up followed by immediate power off. SCSI part of the fix is queued in scsi-misc-2.6 tree and libata-dev part is acked and waiting to be merged, so the fix will be available in 2.6.22. However, it's disabled by default to remain compatible with the current behavior and requires userland change to fully fix the problem. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Chuck Ebbert wrote: Mark Lord wrote: I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? This is a problem with Seagate specifically, spinning back up on receipt of some command after spindown? No, they just seem to be affected worse by it than some other brands. The bug is that libata/SCSI now spin-down the drive before the distro's scripts are done with it, so it spins down, and then gets spun up again by the distro, and then spun down again by the distro. And along the way, one/both of the two causes a full mechanism "park", which is hard on things if abused (like this). Or at least that's what I recall for it. Tejun? 2007/4/11, Chuck Ebbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Jan Engelhardt wrote: > On Apr 11 2007 17:07, Chuck Ebbert wrote: >> When I reboot my notebook, it powers off and powers back on. >> On poweroff a loud snapping noise seems to be coming from the >> hard drive. Today I noticed there is no "shutdown: hda" on >> the console when I reboot. Whne I do a normal poweroff the >> message is displayed and there is no noise. Should the IDE >> code be changed so it always shuts down the drive? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: > > I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens > of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? > This is a problem with Seagate specifically, spinning back up on receipt of some command after spindown? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
emisca wrote: I can confirm this, I have a Seagate Momentus 5400.3 sata disk, and it spins off, respin up and again off when I halt my notebook. I had before this disk an IBM/Hitachi one, and it doesn't have this behaviour. Take a look at this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/67810 There are some references and some patches against 2.6.20 kernel. This bug is confirmed there. Yup. Last I heard, Tejun has fixed this, and queued the code for 2.6.22 via James B. But this could be considered a rather nasty regression in 2.6.21, in that it does seem to cause significant and unnecessary wear and tear on the drive mechanisms. I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? Cheers Bye 2007/4/11, Chuck Ebbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Jan Engelhardt wrote: > On Apr 11 2007 17:07, Chuck Ebbert wrote: >> When I reboot my notebook, it powers off and powers back on. >> On poweroff a loud snapping noise seems to be coming from the >> hard drive. Today I noticed there is no "shutdown: hda" on >> the console when I reboot. Whne I do a normal poweroff the >> message is displayed and there is no noise. Should the IDE >> code be changed so it always shuts down the drive? > > What sort of notebook? What sort of harddisk? Compaq Presario V2000 series, with a new Seagate ST9120821A 120GB 5400RPM drive. > Is it as loud as `hdparm -y /dev/hdX"? That makes no noise at all except normal drive seek noises. > Try `smartctl -d ata -a /dev/hdX | grep -i unload` too. Hmm. Power_Cycle_Count ... 108 Power-Off_Retract_Count ... 90 I did a normal poweroff and the retract count went to 91. There is an almost-unnoticeable click when I do it that way. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: > It looks like there are two problems here: > > (1) Some notebooks power off and back on when restarting. If it happens just under Linux, this is something that really needs to be addressed post-haste. Maybe someone should open a bug in bugzilla to help track it properly? If it also happens under Windows, you have been sold defective crap that is being damaged every time you reboot it, get in touch with the manufacturer and demand a replacement *new* unit with a firmware fix, or your money back. > (2) Linux (alone) gives a very muted pop on shutdown. This could Shutdown as in "machine power off", and HDs are under SCSI control (they appear as scsi devices to userspace, due to libata for example)? Known issue, see http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7838 (actually, IMHO this fix should have been fast-tracked into 2.6.21, instead of queued for 2.6.22). Shutdown as in reboot/restart? New bug that needs to be stomped as soon as possible, but make sure it is not (1) above. -- "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Hi. On 4/17/07, Chuck Ebbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (2) Linux (alone) gives a very muted pop on shutdown. This could be from bad interaction with the shutdown command, or some other reason (drive not given enough time to shut down?) The noise is not very loud, maybe the head did not have to move very far? I'm facing this with my HP Pavilion DV4378EA with a PATA disk (Toshiba I think, but I'm not too sure, will check in the afternoon if needed). "The Other OS" does not cause the "pop" at shutdown. Linux does (last checked: yesterday with 2.6.21-rc7). I'm happy to test patches. Regards, Fabio - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
2007/4/17, Chuck Ebbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Jan Engelhardt wrote: > On Apr 15 2007 12:53, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: >> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007, Pavel Machek wrote: >>> How common are notebooks that cut power to disks during reboot? >> Assuming it also does this when running Windows, I'd report it as a grave >> bug to the vendor and demand it to be fixed, or the machine to be exchanged >> with another model that doesn't have this defect. > > Given that it does not happen on Windows (IIRC Chuck's post), > then just what is Windows [not] doing that Linux does? It looks like there are two problems here: (1) Some notebooks power off and back on when restarting. Both Linux and other OS handle that badly because they assume power is not interrupted on reboot. The noise emitted is relatively loud. I'm affected by this problem, hp nx7400 + Seagate Momentus 5400.3 160gb SATA When "drive spins down, acpi_power_off is written on the console, the drive spins up again, and 3-4 seconds later the notebook is powered off, leaving disk heads not parked I think. I've not tried any new kernel or patches. I'm using stock debian Etch kernel 2.6.18-5-686. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
2007/4/17, Chuck Ebbert [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Apr 15 2007 12:53, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Sat, 14 Apr 2007, Pavel Machek wrote: How common are notebooks that cut power to disks during reboot? Assuming it also does this when running Windows, I'd report it as a grave bug to the vendor and demand it to be fixed, or the machine to be exchanged with another model that doesn't have this defect. Given that it does not happen on Windows (IIRC Chuck's post), then just what is Windows [not] doing that Linux does? It looks like there are two problems here: (1) Some notebooks power off and back on when restarting. Both Linux and other OS handle that badly because they assume power is not interrupted on reboot. The noise emitted is relatively loud. I'm affected by this problem, hp nx7400 + Seagate Momentus 5400.3 160gb SATA When drive spins down, acpi_power_off is written on the console, the drive spins up again, and 3-4 seconds later the notebook is powered off, leaving disk heads not parked I think. I've not tried any new kernel or patches. I'm using stock debian Etch kernel 2.6.18-5-686. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Hi. On 4/17/07, Chuck Ebbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip (2) Linux (alone) gives a very muted pop on shutdown. This could be from bad interaction with the shutdown command, or some other reason (drive not given enough time to shut down?) The noise is not very loud, maybe the head did not have to move very far? I'm facing this with my HP Pavilion DV4378EA with a PATA disk (Toshiba I think, but I'm not too sure, will check in the afternoon if needed). The Other OS does not cause the pop at shutdown. Linux does (last checked: yesterday with 2.6.21-rc7). I'm happy to test patches. Regards, Fabio - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007, Chuck Ebbert wrote: It looks like there are two problems here: (1) Some notebooks power off and back on when restarting. If it happens just under Linux, this is something that really needs to be addressed post-haste. Maybe someone should open a bug in bugzilla to help track it properly? If it also happens under Windows, you have been sold defective crap that is being damaged every time you reboot it, get in touch with the manufacturer and demand a replacement *new* unit with a firmware fix, or your money back. (2) Linux (alone) gives a very muted pop on shutdown. This could Shutdown as in machine power off, and HDs are under SCSI control (they appear as scsi devices to userspace, due to libata for example)? Known issue, see http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7838 (actually, IMHO this fix should have been fast-tracked into 2.6.21, instead of queued for 2.6.22). Shutdown as in reboot/restart? New bug that needs to be stomped as soon as possible, but make sure it is not (1) above. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
emisca wrote: I can confirm this, I have a Seagate Momentus 5400.3 sata disk, and it spins off, respin up and again off when I halt my notebook. I had before this disk an IBM/Hitachi one, and it doesn't have this behaviour. Take a look at this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/67810 There are some references and some patches against 2.6.20 kernel. This bug is confirmed there. Yup. Last I heard, Tejun has fixed this, and queued the code for 2.6.22 via James B. But this could be considered a rather nasty regression in 2.6.21, in that it does seem to cause significant and unnecessary wear and tear on the drive mechanisms. I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? Cheers Bye 2007/4/11, Chuck Ebbert [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Apr 11 2007 17:07, Chuck Ebbert wrote: When I reboot my notebook, it powers off and powers back on. On poweroff a loud snapping noise seems to be coming from the hard drive. Today I noticed there is no shutdown: hda on the console when I reboot. Whne I do a normal poweroff the message is displayed and there is no noise. Should the IDE code be changed so it always shuts down the drive? What sort of notebook? What sort of harddisk? Compaq Presario V2000 series, with a new Seagate ST9120821A 120GB 5400RPM drive. Is it as loud as `hdparm -y /dev/hdX? That makes no noise at all except normal drive seek noises. Try `smartctl -d ata -a /dev/hdX | grep -i unload` too. Hmm. Power_Cycle_Count ... 108 Power-Off_Retract_Count ... 90 I did a normal poweroff and the retract count went to 91. There is an almost-unnoticeable click when I do it that way. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? This is a problem with Seagate specifically, spinning back up on receipt of some command after spindown? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Chuck Ebbert wrote: Mark Lord wrote: I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? This is a problem with Seagate specifically, spinning back up on receipt of some command after spindown? No, they just seem to be affected worse by it than some other brands. The bug is that libata/SCSI now spin-down the drive before the distro's scripts are done with it, so it spins down, and then gets spun up again by the distro, and then spun down again by the distro. And along the way, one/both of the two causes a full mechanism park, which is hard on things if abused (like this). Or at least that's what I recall for it. Tejun? 2007/4/11, Chuck Ebbert [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Apr 11 2007 17:07, Chuck Ebbert wrote: When I reboot my notebook, it powers off and powers back on. On poweroff a loud snapping noise seems to be coming from the hard drive. Today I noticed there is no shutdown: hda on the console when I reboot. Whne I do a normal poweroff the message is displayed and there is no noise. Should the IDE code be changed so it always shuts down the drive? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Mark Lord wrote: Chuck Ebbert wrote: Mark Lord wrote: I'll patch it locally on my own machines, but what about the tens of thousands of other Seagate notebook drive owners out there? This is a problem with Seagate specifically, spinning back up on receipt of some command after spindown? No, they just seem to be affected worse by it than some other brands. The bug is that libata/SCSI now spin-down the drive before the distro's scripts are done with it, so it spins down, and then gets spun up again by the distro, and then spun down again by the distro. And along the way, one/both of the two causes a full mechanism park, which is hard on things if abused (like this). Or at least that's what I recall for it. Tejun? This really isn't a regression. It's been always like that with libata. libata doesn't make devices go into standby mode and shutdown(8) does it for libata. The problem here is that libata does issue SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE on shutdown. So, the sequence of event is... 1. shutdown(8) issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE followed by STANDBY_NOW 2. kernel shutdown starts 3. libata shutdown issues SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE 4. power goes off Some drives seem to spin up at step #3 even when its cache is clean and power goes off right after the disk finishes the command. So, it's really bad when it happens - spin down, spin up followed by immediate power off. SCSI part of the fix is queued in scsi-misc-2.6 tree and libata-dev part is acked and waiting to be merged, so the fix will be available in 2.6.22. However, it's disabled by default to remain compatible with the current behavior and requires userland change to fully fix the problem. -- tejun - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
Jan Engelhardt wrote: > On Apr 15 2007 12:53, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: >> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007, Pavel Machek wrote: >>> How common are notebooks that cut power to disks during reboot? >> Assuming it also does this when running Windows, I'd report it as a grave >> bug to the vendor and demand it to be fixed, or the machine to be exchanged >> with another model that doesn't have this defect. > > Given that it does not happen on Windows (IIRC Chuck's post), > then just what is Windows [not] doing that Linux does? It looks like there are two problems here: (1) Some notebooks power off and back on when restarting. Both Linux and other OS handle that badly because they assume power is not interrupted on reboot. The noise emitted is relatively loud. (2) Linux (alone) gives a very muted pop on shutdown. This could be from bad interaction with the shutdown command, or some other reason (drive not given enough time to shut down?) The noise is not very loud, maybe the head did not have to move very far? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud pop coming from hard drive on reboot
Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Apr 15 2007 12:53, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Sat, 14 Apr 2007, Pavel Machek wrote: How common are notebooks that cut power to disks during reboot? Assuming it also does this when running Windows, I'd report it as a grave bug to the vendor and demand it to be fixed, or the machine to be exchanged with another model that doesn't have this defect. Given that it does not happen on Windows (IIRC Chuck's post), then just what is Windows [not] doing that Linux does? It looks like there are two problems here: (1) Some notebooks power off and back on when restarting. Both Linux and other OS handle that badly because they assume power is not interrupted on reboot. The noise emitted is relatively loud. (2) Linux (alone) gives a very muted pop on shutdown. This could be from bad interaction with the shutdown command, or some other reason (drive not given enough time to shut down?) The noise is not very loud, maybe the head did not have to move very far? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
On Sunday 15 April 2007 19:07, emisca wrote: > I can confirm this, I have a Seagate Momentus 5400.3 sata disk, and it > spins off, respin up and again off when I halt my notebook. > I had before this disk an IBM/Hitachi one, and it doesn't have this > behaviour. > > Take a look at this bug report: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/67810 > > There are some references and some patches against 2.6.20 kernel. This > bug is confirmed there. > > Bye > I had the same problem with 2 WD disks on a desktop machine for 2 years, until I activated ACPI S3 (suspend to RAM) in the BIOS. According to this bug report (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229210) the problem may be due to bad interaction between libata and the shutdown command. Tejun Heo, whom I thank for his support, has already proposed a patch to fix this. From the description there, it looks like it may also fix the reboot problem this thread is about. Regards - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Loud "pop" coming from hard drive on reboot
On Apr 15 2007 12:53, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: >On Sat, 14 Apr 2007, Pavel Machek wrote: >> How common are notebooks that cut power to disks during reboot? > >Assuming it also does this when running Windows, I'd report it as a grave >bug to the vendor and demand it to be fixed, or the machine to be exchanged >with another model that doesn't have this defect. Given that it does not happen on Windows (IIRC Chuck's post), then just what is Windows [not] doing that Linux does? Jan -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
