Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
On 2013-02-09 Saturday at 12:36 +0100 Yann E. MORIN wrote: > Rolland, All, > > On Saturday 09 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: > > Regarding the / conflict: My vision is to eliminate the need for > > help > > keybindings at all by displaying the related help text beside the > > menu permanently, similar to some graphical backends. For terminals with > > COLUMNS>=160 this should be rather easy to implement. nouveaufb gives me > > by > > default terminal with 274 columns, “retina” displays are entering the > > market > > … the frequency of COLUMNS>=160 terminals probably will continue to grow. > > While staying compatible with COLUMNS=80, it seems reasonable to use the > > capabilities of wider terminals, or what would you say? > > How do you navigate up/down in the help text (when the terminal is not > high enought to display the entire help) if it is displayed at the same > time the menu entries are, yet without breaking the UI behavior people > expect? Good question. My vision is a UI similar to mc with directory listing in one panel, file content in the other panel, “quick view” and “lynx-like navigation” switched on. Help keybindings will become superfluous, and keybindings to switch focus between menu and help “panel” will be added. Implementation will require some ncurses exercise and more time, than I have available in near future. Thus I keep saying “no promise …” -- Regards Roland Eggner pgpA9xTlRVTLL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
Rolland, All, On Saturday 09 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: > On 2013-02-09 Saturday at 02:03 +0100 Yann E. MORIN wrote: > > On Friday 01 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: > > > Add vi-style navigation keys, based on initial work by Dmitry Voytik. > > > > As much I am a unconditional vim user, I doubt this is a sane idea to > > include this, as it conflicts with the established UI that people expect, > > especially since is remapped and people already rely on to provide > > help, not do any other weird thing (like exiting the current submenu). > > Having the most frequently used keys in the middle of the keyboard is > a professional computer usage pattern, not an anachronistic one. I never said it was anachronistic. I just oppose this change as it conflicts with a fundamental existing behavior (getting help) that people have come to rely on. > Regarding the / conflict: My vision is to eliminate the need for help > keybindings at all by displaying the related help text beside the > menu > permanently, similar to some graphical backends. For terminals with > COLUMNS>=160 this should be rather easy to implement. nouveaufb gives me by > default terminal with 274 columns, “retina” displays are entering the market > … the frequency of COLUMNS>=160 terminals probably will continue to grow. > While > staying compatible with COLUMNS=80, it seems reasonable to use the > capabilities > of wider terminals, or what would you say? How do you navigate up/down in the help text (when the terminal is not high enought to display the entire help) if it is displayed at the same time the menu entries are, yet without breaking the UI behavior people expect? Regards, Yann E. MORIN. -- .-..--.. | Yann E. MORIN | Real-Time Embedded | /"\ ASCII RIBBON | Erics' conspiracy: | | +33 662 376 056 | Software Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN | ___ | | +33 223 225 172 `.---: X AGAINST | \e/ There is no | | http://ymorin.is-a-geek.org/ | _/*\_ | / \ HTML MAIL| v conspiracy. | '--^---^--^' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
Rolland, All, On Saturday 09 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: On 2013-02-09 Saturday at 02:03 +0100 Yann E. MORIN wrote: On Friday 01 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: Add vi-style navigation keys, based on initial work by Dmitry Voytik. As much I am a unconditional vim user, I doubt this is a sane idea to include this, as it conflicts with the established UI that people expect, especially since h is remapped and people already rely on h to provide help, not do any other weird thing (like exiting the current submenu). Having the most frequently used keys in the middle of the keyboard is a professional computer usage pattern, not an anachronistic one. I never said it was anachronistic. I just oppose this change as it conflicts with a fundamental existing behavior (getting help) that people have come to rely on. Regarding the h/H conflict: My vision is to eliminate the need for help keybindings h ? at all by displaying the related help text beside the menu permanently, similar to some graphical backends. For terminals with COLUMNS=160 this should be rather easy to implement. nouveaufb gives me by default terminal with 274 columns, “retina” displays are entering the market … the frequency of COLUMNS=160 terminals probably will continue to grow. While staying compatible with COLUMNS=80, it seems reasonable to use the capabilities of wider terminals, or what would you say? How do you navigate up/down in the help text (when the terminal is not high enought to display the entire help) if it is displayed at the same time the menu entries are, yet without breaking the UI behavior people expect? Regards, Yann E. MORIN. -- .-..--.. | Yann E. MORIN | Real-Time Embedded | /\ ASCII RIBBON | Erics' conspiracy: | | +33 662 376 056 | Software Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN | ___ | | +33 223 225 172 `.---: X AGAINST | \e/ There is no | | http://ymorin.is-a-geek.org/ | _/*\_ | / \ HTML MAIL| v conspiracy. | '--^---^--^' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
On 2013-02-09 Saturday at 12:36 +0100 Yann E. MORIN wrote: Rolland, All, On Saturday 09 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: Regarding the h/H conflict: My vision is to eliminate the need for help keybindings h ? at all by displaying the related help text beside the menu permanently, similar to some graphical backends. For terminals with COLUMNS=160 this should be rather easy to implement. nouveaufb gives me by default terminal with 274 columns, “retina” displays are entering the market … the frequency of COLUMNS=160 terminals probably will continue to grow. While staying compatible with COLUMNS=80, it seems reasonable to use the capabilities of wider terminals, or what would you say? How do you navigate up/down in the help text (when the terminal is not high enought to display the entire help) if it is displayed at the same time the menu entries are, yet without breaking the UI behavior people expect? Good question. My vision is a UI similar to mc with directory listing in one panel, file content in the other panel, “quick view” and “lynx-like navigation” switched on. Help keybindings h ? will become superfluous, and keybindings Tab Ctrl-i to switch focus between menu and help “panel” will be added. Implementation will require some ncurses exercise and more time, than I have available in near future. Thus I keep saying “no promise …” -- Regards Roland Eggner pgpA9xTlRVTLL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
On 2013-02-09 Saturday at 02:03 +0100 Yann E. MORIN wrote: > On Friday 01 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: > > Add vi-style navigation keys, based on initial work by Dmitry Voytik. > > As much I am a unconditional vim user, I doubt this is a sane idea to > include this, as it conflicts with the established UI that people expect, > especially since is remapped and people already rely on to provide > help, not do any other weird thing (like exiting the current submenu). Having the most frequently used keys in the middle of the keyboard is a professional computer usage pattern, not an anachronistic one. Regarding the / conflict: My vision is to eliminate the need for help keybindings at all by displaying the related help text beside the menu permanently, similar to some graphical backends. For terminals with COLUMNS>=160 this should be rather easy to implement. nouveaufb gives me by default terminal with 274 columns, “retina” displays are entering the market … the frequency of COLUMNS>=160 terminals probably will continue to grow. While staying compatible with COLUMNS=80, it seems reasonable to use the capabilities of wider terminals, or what would you say? Cannot promise when I will find the time to prepare a patch. -- Regards Roland Eggner pgpwbWgID_z_5.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
Roland, All, On Friday 01 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: > Add vi-style navigation keys, based on initial work by Dmitry Voytik. As much I am a unconditional vim user, I doubt this is a sane idea to include this, as it conflicts with the established UI that people expect, especially since is remapped and people already rely on to provide help, not do any other weird thing (like exiting the current submenu). Regards, Yann E. MORIN. -- .-..--.. | Yann E. MORIN | Real-Time Embedded | /"\ ASCII RIBBON | Erics' conspiracy: | | +33 662 376 056 | Software Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN | ___ | | +33 223 225 172 `.---: X AGAINST | \e/ There is no | | http://ymorin.is-a-geek.org/ | _/*\_ | / \ HTML MAIL| v conspiracy. | '--^---^--^' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
Roland, All, On Friday 01 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: Add vi-style navigation keys, based on initial work by Dmitry Voytik. As much I am a unconditional vim user, I doubt this is a sane idea to include this, as it conflicts with the established UI that people expect, especially since h is remapped and people already rely on h to provide help, not do any other weird thing (like exiting the current submenu). Regards, Yann E. MORIN. -- .-..--.. | Yann E. MORIN | Real-Time Embedded | /\ ASCII RIBBON | Erics' conspiracy: | | +33 662 376 056 | Software Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN | ___ | | +33 223 225 172 `.---: X AGAINST | \e/ There is no | | http://ymorin.is-a-geek.org/ | _/*\_ | / \ HTML MAIL| v conspiracy. | '--^---^--^' -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
On 2013-02-09 Saturday at 02:03 +0100 Yann E. MORIN wrote: On Friday 01 February 2013 Roland Eggner wrote: Add vi-style navigation keys, based on initial work by Dmitry Voytik. As much I am a unconditional vim user, I doubt this is a sane idea to include this, as it conflicts with the established UI that people expect, especially since h is remapped and people already rely on h to provide help, not do any other weird thing (like exiting the current submenu). Having the most frequently used keys in the middle of the keyboard is a professional computer usage pattern, not an anachronistic one. Regarding the h/H conflict: My vision is to eliminate the need for help keybindings h ? at all by displaying the related help text beside the menu permanently, similar to some graphical backends. For terminals with COLUMNS=160 this should be rather easy to implement. nouveaufb gives me by default terminal with 274 columns, “retina” displays are entering the market … the frequency of COLUMNS=160 terminals probably will continue to grow. While staying compatible with COLUMNS=80, it seems reasonable to use the capabilities of wider terminals, or what would you say? Cannot promise when I will find the time to prepare a patch. -- Regards Roland Eggner pgpwbWgID_z_5.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
>From: Roland Eggner Add vi-style navigation keys, based on initial work by Dmitry Voytik. Users of netbooks, notebooks and other devices with keyboards lacking a dedicated number keypad will enjoy. And advanced users of vim, less, mutt, … having navigation by keys hjkl “hardwired” in their fingers will “fly” :) In global help window called by key provide a table with all current and added keybindings: | Menu navigation keysplain style vi-style | | -- | | Linewise up | | Linewise down | | Pagewise up | | Pagewise down | | First entry | | Last entry | | Enter a submenu | | Go back to parent menu | | Close a help window| | Close entry window, apply | | Close entry window, forget| | Start incremental, case-insensitive search for STRING in menu entries, | | no regex support, STRING is displayed in upper left corner | | STRING | | Remove last character | | Jump to next hit | | Jump to previous hit | | Exit menu search mode | | Search for configuration variables with or without leading CONFIG_ | | RegExpr | | Verbose search help| | -- | Intention is an easy to memorize set of keybindings resembling user interfaces of other frequently used software, not a strict clone of the historic vi user interface. In contrast to historic vi, is used for characterwise right and left movement by libreadline (bash, xfsprogs, bc, gdb, python, ruby, hunspell, mysql, sqlite, gnupg, xine-ui, parted …). Thus pagewise movement by would be weird for my fingers, so I have added , resembling e.g. thread-wise navigation in mutt message lists. To call help related to the current menu entry, currently any of the keys may be used. To solve the conflict with new navigation key , this is changed to keys . Lesser experienced users will not note, they use . And advanced users will consider, how much faster they can work, when all frequently used keys are in the middle of the keyboard. Signed-off-by: Dmitry Voytik Signed-off-by: Roland Eggner --- scripts/kconfig/nconf.c | 81 ++-- 1 files changed, 51 insertions(+), 30 deletions(-) To be applied on vanilla 3.8-rc3 diff --git a/scripts/kconfig/nconf.c b/scripts/kconfig/nconf.c --- a/scripts/kconfig/nconf.c +++ b/scripts/kconfig/nconf.c @@ -12,6 +12,8 @@ #include "nconf.h" #include +#define KEY_CONTROL(k) ((k) & 0x1f) + static const char nconf_global_help[] = N_( "Help windows\n" "\n" @@ -21,7 +23,7 @@ static const char nconf_global_help[] = "o A short version of the global help is available by key .\n" "\n" "o Local help: To get help related to the current menu entry, use any\n" -" of keys, or if in a data entry window then use key.\n" +" of keys, or if in a data entry window then use key.\n" "\n" "\n" "Menu entries\n" @@ -47,16 +49,16 @@ static const char nconf_global_help[] = "A trailing \"--->\" designates a submenu.\n" "\n" "\n" -"Menu navigation keys\n" +"Menu navigation keysplain style vi-style\n" "--\n" -"Linewise up \n" -"Linewise down \n" -"Pagewise up \n" -"Pagewise down \n" -"First entry \n" -"Last entry \n" -"Enter a submenu \n" -"Go back to parent menu \n" +"Linewise up \n" +"Linewise down \n" +"Pagewise up \n" +"Pagewise down \n" +"First entry \n" +"Last entry \n" +"Enter a submenu \n" +"Go back to parent menu \n" "Close a help window \n" "Close entry window, apply \n" "Close entry window, forget\n" @@ -90,8 +92,8 @@ static const char nconf_global_help[] = "\n" "Text Box (Help Window)\n" "--\n" -"Use movement keys as listed in\n"
Re: [PATCH resend v3 3/3] kconfig: nconf: add vi-style navigation keys
From: Roland Eggner ed...@systemanalysen.net Add vi-style navigation keys, based on initial work by Dmitry Voytik. Users of netbooks, notebooks and other devices with keyboards lacking a dedicated number keypad will enjoy. And advanced users of vim, less, mutt, … having navigation by keys hjkl “hardwired” in their fingers will “fly” :) In global help window called by key F1 provide a table with all current and added keybindings: | Menu navigation keysplain style vi-style | | -- | | Linewise up Upk| | Linewise down Down j| | Pagewise up Page Up Ctrl-b Ctrl-p | | Pagewise down Page Down Ctrl-f Ctrl-n | | First entry Home g| | Last entry End G| | Enter a submenu Right Enterl| | Go back to parent menu Left Esc F5h| | Close a help window Enter Esc F5 | | Close entry window, apply Enter| | Close entry window, forget Esc F5| | Start incremental, case-insensitive search for STRING in menu entries, | | no regex support, STRING is displayed in upper left corner | | /STRING | | Remove last character Backspace| | Jump to next hitDown | | Jump to previous hitUp | | Exit menu search mode / Esc | | Search for configuration variables with or without leading CONFIG_ | | F8RegExprEnter | | Verbose search help F8F1 | | -- | Intention is an easy to memorize set of keybindings resembling user interfaces of other frequently used software, not a strict clone of the historic vi user interface. In contrast to historic vi, Ctrl-f Ctrl-b is used for characterwise right and left movement by libreadline (bash, xfsprogs, bc, gdb, python, ruby, hunspell, mysql, sqlite, gnupg, xine-ui, parted …). Thus pagewise movement by Ctrl-f Ctrl-b would be weird for my fingers, so I have added Ctrl-n Ctrl-p, resembling e.g. thread-wise navigation in mutt message lists. To call help related to the current menu entry, currently any of the keys ? h may be used. To solve the conflict with new navigation key h, this is changed to keys ? H. Lesser experienced users will not note, they use ?. And advanced users will consider, how much faster they can work, when all frequently used keys are in the middle of the keyboard. Signed-off-by: Dmitry Voytik dvv.ker...@gmail.com Signed-off-by: Roland Eggner ed...@systemanalysen.net --- scripts/kconfig/nconf.c | 81 ++-- 1 files changed, 51 insertions(+), 30 deletions(-) To be applied on vanilla 3.8-rc3 diff --git a/scripts/kconfig/nconf.c b/scripts/kconfig/nconf.c --- a/scripts/kconfig/nconf.c +++ b/scripts/kconfig/nconf.c @@ -12,6 +12,8 @@ #include nconf.h #include ctype.h +#define KEY_CONTROL(k) ((k) 0x1f) + static const char nconf_global_help[] = N_( Help windows\n \n @@ -21,7 +23,7 @@ static const char nconf_global_help[] = o A short version of the global help is available by key F3.\n \n o Local help: To get help related to the current menu entry, use any\n - of ? h keys, or if in a data entry window then use F1 key.\n + of ? H keys, or if in a data entry window then use F1 key.\n \n \n Menu entries\n @@ -47,16 +49,16 @@ static const char nconf_global_help[] = A trailing \---\ designates a submenu.\n \n \n -Menu navigation keys\n +Menu navigation keysplain style vi-style\n --\n -Linewise up Up\n -Linewise down Down\n -Pagewise up Page Up\n -Pagewise down Page Down\n -First entry Home\n -Last entry End\n -Enter a submenu Right Enter\n -Go back to parent menu Left Esc F5\n +Linewise up Upk\n +Linewise down Down j\n +Pagewise up Page Up Ctrl-b Ctrl-p\n +Pagewise down Page Down Ctrl-f Ctrl-n\n +First entry Home g\n +Last entry End G\n +Enter a submenu Right Enterl\n +Go back to
