Re: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 01:18:42AM +0200, Martin Clausen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:22:15AM -0400, Mike A. Harris wrote: > > Also, what is a good rock solid SCSI RAID controller? Money is > > no object. Reliability, performance and Linux compatibility are > > though. > > I have very good experiences with the Mylex controllers/drivers! > > But then again I also have good experiences with the new-style SW-RAID; > it performs very well indead and it is quite cheap :) Remember, any RAID solution is based on software. The difference is, whether the software is closed-source and hiding on a slow processor, or free software running on a much more powerful processor (which on the other hand also needs to run other parts of the system, as this is the main CPU). The main selling-points of software RAID except for stability and usually much higher performance than "hardware" RAID is, that the interaction between the userland tools and the RAID code is "open". People who use RAID, be it one kind or the other, occationally meet some problem where the RAID seems to be having a will of it's own. With the "open" solution, you as an administrator actually have a chance of figuring out what happens. I know the usual trouble-shooting on proprietary RAID seems to be "uh, it doesn't work ? well, try the newer drivers and firmware. Oh, you did that, well, then try the older versions then". If people are comfortable with that kind of systems, well, fine as long as it's not my data. I want to know the code I trust my data with. From an theoretical point of view, it is stupid to trust proprietary code - however, in the case of RAID I believe (at least some of) the manufacturers has managed to prove that even from a purely pragmatic point of view it is stupid to trust their code. Yet, an awful lot of people seem to prefer the so-called "hardware" RAID :) -- : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : And I see the elder races, : :.: putrid forms of man: : Jakob Østergaard : See him rise and claim the earth, : :OZ9ABN : his downfall is at hand. : :.:{Konkhra}...: - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:22:15AM -0400, Mike A. Harris wrote: > Also, what is a good rock solid SCSI RAID controller? Money is > no object. Reliability, performance and Linux compatibility are > though. I have very good experiences with the Mylex controllers/drivers! But then again I also have good experiences with the new-style SW-RAID; it performs very well indead and it is quite cheap :) Regards, Martin -- There's no place like ~ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:18:57PM +0300, Ville Herva wrote: > > There's also AthlonLinux http://athlonlinux.org/ and AthlonGCC > > http://athlonlinux.org/agcc/about.shtml, but I have no experience with those > > (I have no Athlon ;( ). > > A warning about agcc, I've discovered that it does not always compile code > quite the way you expect it. This is unsurprising given it's based on > pgcc which is known to change alignments on you in ways that sometimes > break things subtly. > > > I do not know if agcc actually can produce code which simply does not work > as is reported with pgcc (I suspect the alignment differences account for > many of those cases), but I recall reading in the past few days that agcc > is not supported for compiling the kernel. > > It also fails to properly compile certain other programs, notably anything > that includes asm functions. As a result, my own experience suggests you > consider agcc in the same class as gcc 3.0 at the moment - experimental. > Hopefully the k7 optimizations that work well will find their way into a > nice athlon subarch options in standard gcc and agcc won't be necessary. Note that gcc 3.0 will have support for Athlons, -mcpu=athlon and -march=athlon are both supported and will do the right thing. For details you should ask Jan Hubicka who implemented this some time ago, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger SuSE Labs [EMAIL PROTECTED] private [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.suse.de/~aj - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:18:57PM +0300, Ville Herva wrote: > There's also AthlonLinux http://athlonlinux.org/ and AthlonGCC > http://athlonlinux.org/agcc/about.shtml, but I have no experience with those > (I have no Athlon ;( ). A warning about agcc, I've discovered that it does not always compile code quite the way you expect it. This is unsurprising given it's based on pgcc which is known to change alignments on you in ways that sometimes break things subtly. I do not know if agcc actually can produce code which simply does not work as is reported with pgcc (I suspect the alignment differences account for many of those cases), but I recall reading in the past few days that agcc is not supported for compiling the kernel. It also fails to properly compile certain other programs, notably anything that includes asm functions. As a result, my own experience suggests you consider agcc in the same class as gcc 3.0 at the moment - experimental. Hopefully the k7 optimizations that work well will find their way into a nice athlon subarch options in standard gcc and agcc won't be necessary. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer Guns don't kill people. It's those damn bullets. Guns just make them go really really fast. -- Jake Johanson PGP signature
Re: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 03:33:00AM -0400, you [Tom Leete] claimed: > > The build problen with Athlon+SMP was solved by AA's patch. I had tested a > similar patch on UP over 2.4.0-test and previous 2.4 releases with nary a > problem. > > This may be too experimental for your purposes, but FWIW I'm writing from a > 2.4.4-pre3 built with gcc-2.97-20010205 using -march=athlon set by the k7 > config. I've been building kernels with that snapshot since the middle of > Feb. With the current image, the box has locked up once in continuous use. I > can't say what caused that one, no log survived. There's also AthlonLinux http://athlonlinux.org/ and AthlonGCC http://athlonlinux.org/agcc/about.shtml, but I have no experience with those (I have no Athlon ;( ). -- v -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
"Mike A. Harris" wrote: > > Would the current state of athlon support be considered stable? > I've got a colleague interested in getting a dual athlon box, and > I'll be making the decision as to what hardware to purchase. I'm > wondering is dual Athlon viable for a business solution right > now, or is it considered "experimental"? > > What hardware would be recommended for a dual CPU system that > needs to be fairly rock solid? Should I recommend to stay with > the P-III Xeon? Or something else? What issues would I expect > to have to deal with if going with a dual Athlon? > > Also, what is a good rock solid SCSI RAID controller? Money is > no object. Reliability, performance and Linux compatibility are > though. > > Chipsets to avoid? > > Any experiences/info good/bad would be greatly appreciated. The build problen with Athlon+SMP was solved by AA's patch. I had tested a similar patch on UP over 2.4.0-test and previous 2.4 releases with nary a problem. This may be too experimental for your purposes, but FWIW I'm writing from a 2.4.4-pre3 built with gcc-2.97-20010205 using -march=athlon set by the k7 config. I've been building kernels with that snapshot since the middle of Feb. With the current image, the box has locked up once in continuous use. I can't say what caused that one, no log survived. Cheers, Tom -- The Daemons lurk and are dumb. -- Emerson - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
Andrea Arcangeli wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 08:03:18AM +0200, Antwerpen, Oliver wrote: > > I am also highly interested in information about dual Athlon (which > > kernel/compiler/tools to use?), as we will get a dual Athlon sample before > > kernel >= 2.4.3 (better >= 2.4.4pre2 for other rasons) compiled for K7 and > CONFIG_SMP=y, compiler as usual for the kernel gcc 2.95.[43] or egcs 1.1.2. With the recent development kernels, an Athlon SMP kernel boots and runs fine on a uniprocessor Athlon machine. This was busted until a few weeks ago. I don't have a SMP Athlon box to test with, so I can't help you there. Miles - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
RE: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
Moin Andrea, > From: Andrea Arcangeli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 08:03:18AM +0200, Antwerpen, Oliver wrote: > > I am also highly interested in information about dual Athlon (which > > kernel/compiler/tools to use?), as we will get a dual > Athlon sample before > > kernel >= 2.4.3 (better >= 2.4.4pre2 for other rasons) > compiled for K7 and > CONFIG_SMP=y, compiler as usual for the kernel gcc 2.95.[43] > or egcs 1.1.2. So there is nothing special about that? Have you already had the chance to test this? What can you say about it? Olli -- Die Wahrheit liegt irgendwo da draußen... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 08:03:18AM +0200, Antwerpen, Oliver wrote: > I am also highly interested in information about dual Athlon (which > kernel/compiler/tools to use?), as we will get a dual Athlon sample before kernel >= 2.4.3 (better >= 2.4.4pre2 for other rasons) compiled for K7 and CONFIG_SMP=y, compiler as usual for the kernel gcc 2.95.[43] or egcs 1.1.2. Andrea - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 01:22:15AM -0400, Mike A. Harris wrote: > Would the current state of athlon support be considered stable? yes. Andrea - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
RE: [Semi-OT] Dual Athlon support in kernel
Moin Mike, > From: Mike A. Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Would the current state of athlon support be considered stable? > I've got a colleague interested in getting a dual athlon box, and > I'll be making the decision as to what hardware to purchase. I'm > wondering is dual Athlon viable for a business solution right > now, or is it considered "experimental"? I don't know if anyone can say if it's stable, as there are no dual Athlon boxes out there yet. > What hardware would be recommended for a dual CPU system that > needs to be fairly rock solid? Should I recommend to stay with > the P-III Xeon? Or something else? What issues would I expect > to have to deal with if going with a dual Athlon? AFAIK Tyan is the only manufacturer building such a board (Thunder K7 / S2562) right now. This will use AMD's 760MP Chipset with DDR memory support up to 4GB, 5 64bit PCI slots, AGP pro, dual NIC (3c920), U160SCSI (aic7899). The launch for dual Athlon is planned for June 4th. If this will be rock-solid will be shown in the first weeks of Q3. I am also highly interested in information about dual Athlon (which kernel/compiler/tools to use?), as we will get a dual Athlon sample before the launch. Olli -- Die Wahrheit liegt irgendwo da draußen... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/