Re: NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
Hi! > > >Is read access safe ? > > > > Of course read-only is safe. As long as you mount the partition READ-ONLY > > nothing can happen to it in any way, your NTFS data is at least safe. > > Isn't it still theoretcially possible for the driver to send commands to the > disk controller that cause data to become overwritten, even when it's just > supposed to read that data? AFAICS, ext3 is happy to write to read-only mounted partition. So question was not completely stupid. Pavel -- I'm [EMAIL PROTECTED] "In my country we have almost anarchy and I don't care." Panos Katsaloulis describing me w.r.t. patents at [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
Hi! Is read access safe ? Of course read-only is safe. As long as you mount the partition READ-ONLY nothing can happen to it in any way, your NTFS data is at least safe. Isn't it still theoretcially possible for the driver to send commands to the disk controller that cause data to become overwritten, even when it's just supposed to read that data? AFAICS, ext3 is happy to write to read-only mounted partition. So question was not completely stupid. Pavel -- I'm [EMAIL PROTECTED] "In my country we have almost anarchy and I don't care." Panos Katsaloulis describing me w.r.t. patents at [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Andre Hedrick wrote: Thank you for a reply, but I don't think it's just the ide stuff which broken. ext2fs is also broken and I suspect that all the rest is broken too. It looks like there was a single change which affected all the modules... > Working to clean all the modular natures of ATA/IDE now > > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Sergey Kubushin wrote: > > > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > > > Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, > with ide > > and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, > I have > > the following output: > > > > === Cut === > > ide-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 32131 > > ide-probe-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 256950710 > > ext2.o: Can't handle sections of type 688840897 > > === Cut === > > > > I suspect that all modules are affected, but can't check it because > kernel > > is unable to mount root filesystem. > > > > All of ac9-ac11 behave the same. ac4, vanilla 2.4.0 and a whole bunch > of > > pre's are fine, so it looks like something was broken between ac4 and > ac9 (I > > didn't compile anything inbetween). > > > > I use gcc-2.95.2, binutils-2.10.1.0.4, modutils-2.4.2, glibc-2.2.1. > The > > initrd image is romfs. I don't think something was broken in romfs, > 'coz > > all the programs run just fine outta the image (static ash, static > insmod). > > > > Config is available and can be sent on request. Please let me know if > I can > > help to find out what causes such a bug. > > > > > > > > ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/alan/2.4/ > > > > > > Slightly delayed because I had take some time out to fall off a > horse.. > > > > > > > > > 2.4.0-ac11 > > > o Raid5 corruption fix(Neil Brown) > > > o Add Etrax 'cris' architecture support (Axis) > > > o APIC crash fixes(Ingo Molnar) > > > o Jochen Hein moved (Jochen Hein) > > > o Fix mm/slab.c doc (Matthew > > > Wilcox) > > > o Major NTFS updates (Anton > > > Altaparmakov) > > > o Make de4x5 driver work (Nathan Hand) > > > o Fix vfb driver line length reporting(Geert > > > Uytterhoeven) > > > o Allow xirc2 config on kernel command line (David Luyer) > > > o via audio mmap support, ioctl fixes (Rui Sousa) > > > o Fix ncpfs limits(Petr > > > Vandrovec) > > > o Fix bios reading in i91xx scsi driver (Trevor > > > Hemsley) > > > o S/390 updates (Holger > > > Smolinski) > > > o Add pci dma mapping to epic100 (Francois > > > Romieu) > > > o Resync with Linus 2.4.1pre9 > > > - Fix DRM bugs in pre9 (Linus > > > Torvalds) > > > - Fix HPFS tests in pre9(me) > > > o Remove dead dsp56k/qpmouse inits(Hans Grobler) > > > o uart401 module locking fixes(Chris Rankin) > > > o Fix cs46xx build error in non module(Hans Grobler) > > > o Update hdparm url (Andre > > > Dahlqvist) > > > o ibmmca updates (Michael Lang) > > > o Fix smctr build problems(Hans Grobler) > > > o Typo fixes (Ulrich Kunitz) > > > o Fix depca to new style module stuff (Hans Grobler) > > > | more love and attention still needed > > > o New kmalloc checks in buz.c (Hans Grobler) > > > o mct_u232 had wrong device id data (Adam J > > > Richter) > > > o aty128fb error path fixes (Hans Grobler) > > > o Add radeon config help (Andre > > > Dahlqvist) > > > o Fix acpi header (Adam J > > > Richter) > > > o Add missing externs to bttv header (Hans Grobler) > > > o Add missing externs to bridge (Hans Grobler) > > > o Fix include/linux/rtc.h typo(John Fremlin) > > > o Remove unreachable code from atm proc (Hans Grobler) > > > o wanrouter proc fixes(Arnaldo > > > Carvalho > > >de Melo) > > > o Fix naming of GPL all over the code (Andre > > > Dahlqvist) > > > o sis900 new module locking (Jeff Garzik) > > > o Remove unneeded private byte count from sb1000 (Jeff Garzik) > > > o NCPfs didnt set s->maxbytes (Petr > > > Vandrovec) > > > o DEC lance cleanup (Jeff Garzik) > > > o Tulip update(Jeff Garzik) > > > o Multiple drivers last_rx and skb deref fixes(Jeff Garzik) > > > o Make bonding new style (Jeff Garzik) > > > o Remove dead definitions from 8390 code (Jeff
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Andre Hedrick wrote: > > Working to clean all the modular natures of ATA/IDE now > > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Sergey Kubushin wrote: > > > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > > > Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with ide > > and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I have > > the following output: [>1100 lines snipped]. Wow. That was a mail. 1200 lines for only one own line. Is dG (vi: delete until end of file) so difficult to nuke the rest of the mail? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Andre Hedrick wrote: Working to clean all the modular natures of ATA/IDE now On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Sergey Kubushin wrote: On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with ide and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I have the following output: [1100 lines snipped]. Wow. That was a mail. 1200 lines for only one own line. Is dG (vi: delete until end of file) so difficult to nuke the rest of the mail? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
Working to clean all the modular natures of ATA/IDE now On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Sergey Kubushin wrote: > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with ide > and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I have > the following output: > > === Cut === > ide-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 32131 > ide-probe-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 256950710 > ext2.o: Can't handle sections of type 688840897 > === Cut === > > I suspect that all modules are affected, but can't check it because kernel > is unable to mount root filesystem. > > All of ac9-ac11 behave the same. ac4, vanilla 2.4.0 and a whole bunch of > pre's are fine, so it looks like something was broken between ac4 and ac9 (I > didn't compile anything inbetween). > > I use gcc-2.95.2, binutils-2.10.1.0.4, modutils-2.4.2, glibc-2.2.1. The > initrd image is romfs. I don't think something was broken in romfs, 'coz > all the programs run just fine outta the image (static ash, static insmod). > > Config is available and can be sent on request. Please let me know if I can > help to find out what causes such a bug. > > > > > ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/alan/2.4/ > > > > Slightly delayed because I had take some time out to fall off a horse.. > > > > > > 2.4.0-ac11 > > o Raid5 corruption fix(Neil Brown) > > o Add Etrax 'cris' architecture support (Axis) > > o APIC crash fixes(Ingo Molnar) > > o Jochen Hein moved (Jochen Hein) > > o Fix mm/slab.c doc (Matthew > > Wilcox) > > o Major NTFS updates (Anton > > Altaparmakov) > > o Make de4x5 driver work (Nathan Hand) > > o Fix vfb driver line length reporting(Geert > > Uytterhoeven) > > o Allow xirc2 config on kernel command line (David Luyer) > > o via audio mmap support, ioctl fixes (Rui Sousa) > > o Fix ncpfs limits(Petr > > Vandrovec) > > o Fix bios reading in i91xx scsi driver (Trevor > > Hemsley) > > o S/390 updates (Holger > > Smolinski) > > o Add pci dma mapping to epic100 (Francois > > Romieu) > > o Resync with Linus 2.4.1pre9 > > - Fix DRM bugs in pre9 (Linus > > Torvalds) > > - Fix HPFS tests in pre9(me) > > o Remove dead dsp56k/qpmouse inits(Hans Grobler) > > o uart401 module locking fixes(Chris Rankin) > > o Fix cs46xx build error in non module(Hans Grobler) > > o Update hdparm url (Andre > > Dahlqvist) > > o ibmmca updates (Michael Lang) > > o Fix smctr build problems(Hans Grobler) > > o Typo fixes (Ulrich Kunitz) > > o Fix depca to new style module stuff (Hans Grobler) > > | more love and attention still needed > > o New kmalloc checks in buz.c (Hans Grobler) > > o mct_u232 had wrong device id data (Adam J > > Richter) > > o aty128fb error path fixes (Hans Grobler) > > o Add radeon config help (Andre > > Dahlqvist) > > o Fix acpi header (Adam J > > Richter) > > o Add missing externs to bttv header (Hans Grobler) > > o Add missing externs to bridge (Hans Grobler) > > o Fix include/linux/rtc.h typo(John Fremlin) > > o Remove unreachable code from atm proc (Hans Grobler) > > o wanrouter proc fixes(Arnaldo > > Carvalho > > de Melo) > > o Fix naming of GPL all over the code (Andre > > Dahlqvist) > > o sis900 new module locking (Jeff Garzik) > > o Remove unneeded private byte count from sb1000 (Jeff Garzik) > > o NCPfs didnt set s->maxbytes (Petr > > Vandrovec) > > o DEC lance cleanup (Jeff Garzik) > > o Tulip update(Jeff Garzik) > > o Multiple drivers last_rx and skb deref fixes(Jeff Garzik) > > o Make bonding new style (Jeff Garzik) > > o Remove dead definitions from 8390 code (Jeff Garzik) > > o 8139too updates (Jeff Garzik) > > o 82596 driver updates(Jeff Garzik) > > o Set last_rx on acenic (Jeff Garzik) > > o Update roadrunner to new module locking (Jeff Garzik) > > > > 2.4.0-ac10 > > o Merge Linus 2.4.1-8 > > o Add s->s_maxbytes to reiserfs
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Anton Altaparmakov wrote: Don't be silly. I do not use RedHat (I do my own distribution, KSI Linux) and their mkinitrd is just a script. Furthermore, I don't have ext2fs in the kernel so their mkinitrd won't work. I do not have ide in the kernel either... > As I don't use initrd at all I am a bit out of my depth here but > according > to Documentation/Changes you need a new mkinitrd and the version > suggested > seems to be 2.8-1. Checking my up-to-date RedHat 7.0 workstation it has > mkinitrd version 2.6-1, so this might be your problem? > > Best regards, > > Anton > > At 01:39 25/01/2001, Sergey Kubushin wrote: > >On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > > >Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with > ide > >and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I > have > >the following output: > > > >=== Cut === > >ide-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 32131 > >ide-probe-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 256950710 > >ext2.o: Can't handle sections of type 688840897 > >=== Cut === > > > >I suspect that all modules are affected, but can't check it because > kernel > >is unable to mount root filesystem. > > > >All of ac9-ac11 behave the same. ac4, vanilla 2.4.0 and a whole bunch > of > >pre's are fine, so it looks like something was broken between ac4 and > ac9 (I > >didn't compile anything inbetween). > > > >I use gcc-2.95.2, binutils-2.10.1.0.4, modutils-2.4.2, glibc-2.2.1. > The > >initrd image is romfs. I don't think something was broken in romfs, > 'coz > >all the programs run just fine outta the image (static ash, static > insmod). > > > >Config is available and can be sent on request. Please let me know if > I can > >help to find out what causes such a bug. > [snip] > > > -- > "Programmers never die. They do a GOSUB without RETURN." - Unknown > source > -- > Anton Altaparmakov (replace at with @) > Linux NTFS Maintainer > ICQ: 8561279 / WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ > > --- Sergey Kubushin Sr. Unix Administrator CyberBills, Inc.Phone: 702-567-8857 874 American Pacific Dr,Fax:702-567-8890 Henderson, NV, 89014 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
As I don't use initrd at all I am a bit out of my depth here but according to Documentation/Changes you need a new mkinitrd and the version suggested seems to be 2.8-1. Checking my up-to-date RedHat 7.0 workstation it has mkinitrd version 2.6-1, so this might be your problem? Best regards, Anton At 01:39 25/01/2001, Sergey Kubushin wrote: >On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > >Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with ide >and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I have >the following output: > >=== Cut === >ide-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 32131 >ide-probe-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 256950710 >ext2.o: Can't handle sections of type 688840897 >=== Cut === > >I suspect that all modules are affected, but can't check it because kernel >is unable to mount root filesystem. > >All of ac9-ac11 behave the same. ac4, vanilla 2.4.0 and a whole bunch of >pre's are fine, so it looks like something was broken between ac4 and ac9 (I >didn't compile anything inbetween). > >I use gcc-2.95.2, binutils-2.10.1.0.4, modutils-2.4.2, glibc-2.2.1. The >initrd image is romfs. I don't think something was broken in romfs, 'coz >all the programs run just fine outta the image (static ash, static insmod). > >Config is available and can be sent on request. Please let me know if I can >help to find out what causes such a bug. [snip] -- "Programmers never die. They do a GOSUB without RETURN." - Unknown source -- Anton Altaparmakov (replace at with @) Linux NTFS Maintainer ICQ: 8561279 / WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with ide and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I have the following output: === Cut === ide-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 32131 ide-probe-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 256950710 ext2.o: Can't handle sections of type 688840897 === Cut === I suspect that all modules are affected, but can't check it because kernel is unable to mount root filesystem. All of ac9-ac11 behave the same. ac4, vanilla 2.4.0 and a whole bunch of pre's are fine, so it looks like something was broken between ac4 and ac9 (I didn't compile anything inbetween). I use gcc-2.95.2, binutils-2.10.1.0.4, modutils-2.4.2, glibc-2.2.1. The initrd image is romfs. I don't think something was broken in romfs, 'coz all the programs run just fine outta the image (static ash, static insmod). Config is available and can be sent on request. Please let me know if I can help to find out what causes such a bug. > > ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/alan/2.4/ > > Slightly delayed because I had take some time out to fall off a horse.. > > > 2.4.0-ac11 > o Raid5 corruption fix(Neil Brown) > o Add Etrax 'cris' architecture support (Axis) > o APIC crash fixes(Ingo Molnar) > o Jochen Hein moved (Jochen Hein) > o Fix mm/slab.c doc (Matthew > Wilcox) > o Major NTFS updates (Anton > Altaparmakov) > o Make de4x5 driver work (Nathan Hand) > o Fix vfb driver line length reporting(Geert > Uytterhoeven) > o Allow xirc2 config on kernel command line (David Luyer) > o via audio mmap support, ioctl fixes (Rui Sousa) > o Fix ncpfs limits(Petr > Vandrovec) > o Fix bios reading in i91xx scsi driver (Trevor > Hemsley) > o S/390 updates (Holger > Smolinski) > o Add pci dma mapping to epic100 (Francois > Romieu) > o Resync with Linus 2.4.1pre9 > - Fix DRM bugs in pre9 (Linus > Torvalds) > - Fix HPFS tests in pre9(me) > o Remove dead dsp56k/qpmouse inits(Hans Grobler) > o uart401 module locking fixes(Chris Rankin) > o Fix cs46xx build error in non module(Hans Grobler) > o Update hdparm url (Andre > Dahlqvist) > o ibmmca updates (Michael Lang) > o Fix smctr build problems(Hans Grobler) > o Typo fixes (Ulrich Kunitz) > o Fix depca to new style module stuff (Hans Grobler) > | more love and attention still needed > o New kmalloc checks in buz.c (Hans Grobler) > o mct_u232 had wrong device id data (Adam J > Richter) > o aty128fb error path fixes (Hans Grobler) > o Add radeon config help (Andre > Dahlqvist) > o Fix acpi header (Adam J > Richter) > o Add missing externs to bttv header (Hans Grobler) > o Add missing externs to bridge (Hans Grobler) > o Fix include/linux/rtc.h typo(John Fremlin) > o Remove unreachable code from atm proc (Hans Grobler) > o wanrouter proc fixes(Arnaldo > Carvalho >de Melo) > o Fix naming of GPL all over the code (Andre > Dahlqvist) > o sis900 new module locking (Jeff Garzik) > o Remove unneeded private byte count from sb1000 (Jeff Garzik) > o NCPfs didnt set s->maxbytes (Petr > Vandrovec) > o DEC lance cleanup (Jeff Garzik) > o Tulip update(Jeff Garzik) > o Multiple drivers last_rx and skb deref fixes(Jeff Garzik) > o Make bonding new style (Jeff Garzik) > o Remove dead definitions from 8390 code (Jeff Garzik) > o 8139too updates (Jeff Garzik) > o 82596 driver updates(Jeff Garzik) > o Set last_rx on acenic (Jeff Garzik) > o Update roadrunner to new module locking (Jeff Garzik) > > 2.4.0-ac10 > o Merge Linus 2.4.1-8 > o Add s->s_maxbytes to reiserfs (me) > o Remove EHASHCOLLISION and make reiserfs thus(me) > compatible with existing glibc/apps > o Clean up oaknet driver (Hans Grobler) > o
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
> does that mean, if I apply ac11 I have already the same like pre9 patch > plus you patches? Yes - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
Hi Alan On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > o Resync with Linus 2.4.1pre9 does that mean, if I apply ac11 I have already the same like pre9 patch plus you patches? I know, its not the most intelligent question, but nobody could tell me... rgds Luc de Louw - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
At 17:03 24/01/01, Timur Tabi wrote: >** Reply to message from Anton Altaparmakov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 24 Jan >2001 16:54:36 + > > > >Is read access safe ? > > > > Of course read-only is safe. As long as you mount the partition READ-ONLY > > nothing can happen to it in any way, your NTFS data is at least safe. > >Isn't it still theoretcially possible for the driver to send commands to the >disk controller that cause data to become overwritten, even when it's just >supposed to read that data? Theoretically it is also possible that all quantums in my body decide to tunnel through space-time at exactly the same time and with the exactly same direction and speed vector for exactly the same duration of time and that I am suddenly effectively teleported to the surface of the moon. (-: But that doesn't mean it's going to happen... Seriously, it is a theoretical possibility but a practical impossibility in my opinion and to the best of my knowledge of the current driver it will not communicate with any hardware directly in any way. In fact it only performs writes by dirtying buffer cache buffers which get written back by the kernel proper. ll_rw_block() never gets called directly and neither does generic_make_request() and block_write_full_page() isn't at the moment either. (Anything I missed?) Also, when you compile the driver without the write support enabled, you are almost 100% sure even a major bug in the driver will not cause any writes. And no, the driver is not a virus nor a trojan nor does it have any intelligence to suddenly decide to write things when it isn't asked to... NOTE: Please don't take my comments personally / too seriously but I couldn't resist... Follow-ups to alt.silly.* please... Regards, Anton -- "Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." - Albert Einstein -- Anton Altaparmakov Voice: +44-(0)1223-333541(lab) / +44-(0)7712-632205(mobile) Christ's CollegeeMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cambridge CB2 3BUICQ: 8561279 United Kingdom WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
Timur Tabi wrote: > Isn't it still theoretcially possible for the driver to send commands to the > disk controller that cause data to become overwritten, even when it's just > supposed to read that data? IMHO the NTFS driver creators weren't bloody newbies and won't do such a bug, even not by accidence. Also I think there might be a VFS protection of R/O space, but I'm not sure. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
** Reply to message from Anton Altaparmakov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:54:36 + > >Is read access safe ? > > Of course read-only is safe. As long as you mount the partition READ-ONLY > nothing can happen to it in any way, your NTFS data is at least safe. Isn't it still theoretcially possible for the driver to send commands to the disk controller that cause data to become overwritten, even when it's just supposed to read that data? -- Timur Tabi - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interactive Silicon - http://www.interactivesi.com When replying to a mailing-list message, please direct the reply to the mailing list only. Don't send another copy to me. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
At 15:05 24/01/01, Cataldo Thomas wrote: >On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > 2.4.0-ac11 > > o Major NTFS updates (Anton Altaparmakov) > >Is read access safe ? Of course read-only is safe. As long as you mount the partition READ-ONLY nothing can happen to it in any way, your NTFS data is at least safe. It is possible however that the driver might cause the kernel to crash in the worst case so you might loose unsaved data on other write mounted partitions. Note that this is an infrequent event and I have only over experienced it under extreme load of the driver! Casual use like playing mp3s from an NTFS partition works fine. On a production system, leaving NTFS partitions mounted will slowly eat your memory (reported by several people), mostly it will go into buffers which don't seem to get freed (I think this is better with more recent kernels but don't have a box with NTFS partitions which can stay up for more than a day, due to needing to use windows, to make sure). - There is no detectable memory leak I can see (I wrote a small memory debugger tracking facility and added it to the driver and all allocated memory was released when the unmount happened, so there is no leak, admittedly I need to have this run for longer to make sure, also none of the memory blocks were overrun in either direction). To summarize: usage for read only is fine for general, not too heavy duty, workstation that gets rebooted once every few days, kind of use. Note that some of the facilities from Windows 2000 NTFS are not available and the driver will either ignore them or do something stupid, but it will NOT damage your data. Write mode is another matter completely! It is extremely DANGEROUS and NOT suitable for everyday use. I would recommend to never mount an NTFS partition read/write unless you are a developer and it is either a fully backed up partition which you can afford to have completely trashed OR your partition is already trashed / NT/2k isn't working and you are trying to fix it. Only then is it ok to use it. Also note that the current driver has no support whatsoever for deleting files/directories. So you can either create files or copy files on top of others but not delete any of them. And finally note that dealing with directories is not right so preferably stick to only creating/copying files without involving the creation of directories. >I would really be interested by a link to ntfs status in linux. I mean >what is safe and what is not. You will have to wait for that kind of thing I am afraid. I might put up some kind of status page up on sourceforge at some point but not now. More important things to do. If someone wants to make a web page just drop me a line and we can put it up on linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net (nothing there at the moment at all)... Hope this answers your immediate questions. Best regards, Anton -- "Programmers never die. They do a GOSUB without RETURN." - Unknown source -- Anton Altaparmakov (replace at with @) Linux NTFS Maintainer / WWW: http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-ntfs/ ICQ: 8561279 / Home page: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/alan/2.4/ > > Slightly delayed because I had take some time out to fall off a horse.. > > > 2.4.0-ac11 > o Major NTFS updates (Anton Altaparmakov) Is read access safe ? I would really be interested by a link to ntfs status in linux. I mean what is safe and what is not. -- Passe que moi, au départ, j'avais fait informatique comme études, pas NT, et je voudrais revenir à mon métier premier. -+- BB in Guide du Linuxien pervers - Bien configurer son metier. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
At 15:05 24/01/01, Cataldo Thomas wrote: On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: 2.4.0-ac11 o Major NTFS updates (Anton Altaparmakov) Is read access safe ? Of course read-only is safe. As long as you mount the partition READ-ONLY nothing can happen to it in any way, your NTFS data is at least safe. It is possible however that the driver might cause the kernel to crash in the worst case so you might loose unsaved data on other write mounted partitions. Note that this is an infrequent event and I have only over experienced it under extreme load of the driver! Casual use like playing mp3s from an NTFS partition works fine. On a production system, leaving NTFS partitions mounted will slowly eat your memory (reported by several people), mostly it will go into buffers which don't seem to get freed (I think this is better with more recent kernels but don't have a box with NTFS partitions which can stay up for more than a day, due to needing to use windows, to make sure). - There is no detectable memory leak I can see (I wrote a small memory debugger tracking facility and added it to the driver and all allocated memory was released when the unmount happened, so there is no leak, admittedly I need to have this run for longer to make sure, also none of the memory blocks were overrun in either direction). To summarize: usage for read only is fine for general, not too heavy duty, workstation that gets rebooted once every few days, kind of use. Note that some of the facilities from Windows 2000 NTFS are not available and the driver will either ignore them or do something stupid, but it will NOT damage your data. Write mode is another matter completely! It is extremely DANGEROUS and NOT suitable for everyday use. I would recommend to never mount an NTFS partition read/write unless you are a developer and it is either a fully backed up partition which you can afford to have completely trashed OR your partition is already trashed / NT/2k isn't working and you are trying to fix it. Only then is it ok to use it. Also note that the current driver has no support whatsoever for deleting files/directories. So you can either create files or copy files on top of others but not delete any of them. And finally note that dealing with directories is not right so preferably stick to only creating/copying files without involving the creation of directories. I would really be interested by a link to ntfs status in linux. I mean what is safe and what is not. You will have to wait for that kind of thing I am afraid. I might put up some kind of status page up on sourceforge at some point but not now. More important things to do. If someone wants to make a web page just drop me a line and we can put it up on linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net (nothing there at the moment at all)... Hope this answers your immediate questions. Best regards, Anton -- "Programmers never die. They do a GOSUB without RETURN." - Unknown source -- Anton Altaparmakov aia21 at cam.ac.uk (replace at with @) Linux NTFS Maintainer / WWW: http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-ntfs/ ICQ: 8561279 / Home page: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
** Reply to message from Anton Altaparmakov [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:54:36 + Is read access safe ? Of course read-only is safe. As long as you mount the partition READ-ONLY nothing can happen to it in any way, your NTFS data is at least safe. Isn't it still theoretcially possible for the driver to send commands to the disk controller that cause data to become overwritten, even when it's just supposed to read that data? -- Timur Tabi - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interactive Silicon - http://www.interactivesi.com When replying to a mailing-list message, please direct the reply to the mailing list only. Don't send another copy to me. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
Timur Tabi wrote: Isn't it still theoretcially possible for the driver to send commands to the disk controller that cause data to become overwritten, even when it's just supposed to read that data? IMHO the NTFS driver creators weren't bloody newbies and won't do such a bug, even not by accidence. Also I think there might be a VFS protection of R/O space, but I'm not sure. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: NTFS safety and lack thereof - Was: Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
At 17:03 24/01/01, Timur Tabi wrote: ** Reply to message from Anton Altaparmakov [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:54:36 + Is read access safe ? Of course read-only is safe. As long as you mount the partition READ-ONLY nothing can happen to it in any way, your NTFS data is at least safe. Isn't it still theoretcially possible for the driver to send commands to the disk controller that cause data to become overwritten, even when it's just supposed to read that data? Theoretically it is also possible that all quantums in my body decide to tunnel through space-time at exactly the same time and with the exactly same direction and speed vector for exactly the same duration of time and that I am suddenly effectively teleported to the surface of the moon. (-: But that doesn't mean it's going to happen... Seriously, it is a theoretical possibility but a practical impossibility in my opinion and to the best of my knowledge of the current driver it will not communicate with any hardware directly in any way. In fact it only performs writes by dirtying buffer cache buffers which get written back by the kernel proper. ll_rw_block() never gets called directly and neither does generic_make_request() and block_write_full_page() isn't at the moment either. (Anything I missed?) Also, when you compile the driver without the write support enabled, you are almost 100% sure even a major bug in the driver will not cause any writes. And no, the driver is not a virus nor a trojan nor does it have any intelligence to suddenly decide to write things when it isn't asked to... NOTE: Please don't take my comments personally / too seriously but I couldn't resist... Follow-ups to alt.silly.* please... Regards, Anton -- "Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." - Albert Einstein -- Anton Altaparmakov Voice: +44-(0)1223-333541(lab) / +44-(0)7712-632205(mobile) Christ's CollegeeMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cambridge CB2 3BUICQ: 8561279 United Kingdom WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
does that mean, if I apply ac11 I have already the same like pre9 patch plus you patches? Yes - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with ide and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I have the following output: === Cut === ide-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 32131 ide-probe-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 256950710 ext2.o: Can't handle sections of type 688840897 === Cut === I suspect that all modules are affected, but can't check it because kernel is unable to mount root filesystem. All of ac9-ac11 behave the same. ac4, vanilla 2.4.0 and a whole bunch of pre's are fine, so it looks like something was broken between ac4 and ac9 (I didn't compile anything inbetween). I use gcc-2.95.2, binutils-2.10.1.0.4, modutils-2.4.2, glibc-2.2.1. The initrd image is romfs. I don't think something was broken in romfs, 'coz all the programs run just fine outta the image (static ash, static insmod). Config is available and can be sent on request. Please let me know if I can help to find out what causes such a bug. ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/alan/2.4/ Slightly delayed because I had take some time out to fall off a horse.. 2.4.0-ac11 o Raid5 corruption fix(Neil Brown) o Add Etrax 'cris' architecture support (Axis) o APIC crash fixes(Ingo Molnar) o Jochen Hein moved (Jochen Hein) o Fix mm/slab.c doc (Matthew Wilcox) o Major NTFS updates (Anton Altaparmakov) o Make de4x5 driver work (Nathan Hand) o Fix vfb driver line length reporting(Geert Uytterhoeven) o Allow xirc2 config on kernel command line (David Luyer) o via audio mmap support, ioctl fixes (Rui Sousa) o Fix ncpfs limits(Petr Vandrovec) o Fix bios reading in i91xx scsi driver (Trevor Hemsley) o S/390 updates (Holger Smolinski) o Add pci dma mapping to epic100 (Francois Romieu) o Resync with Linus 2.4.1pre9 - Fix DRM bugs in pre9 (Linus Torvalds) - Fix HPFS tests in pre9(me) o Remove dead dsp56k/qpmouse inits(Hans Grobler) o uart401 module locking fixes(Chris Rankin) o Fix cs46xx build error in non module(Hans Grobler) o Update hdparm url (Andre Dahlqvist) o ibmmca updates (Michael Lang) o Fix smctr build problems(Hans Grobler) o Typo fixes (Ulrich Kunitz) o Fix depca to new style module stuff (Hans Grobler) | more love and attention still needed o New kmalloc checks in buz.c (Hans Grobler) o mct_u232 had wrong device id data (Adam J Richter) o aty128fb error path fixes (Hans Grobler) o Add radeon config help (Andre Dahlqvist) o Fix acpi header (Adam J Richter) o Add missing externs to bttv header (Hans Grobler) o Add missing externs to bridge (Hans Grobler) o Fix include/linux/rtc.h typo(John Fremlin) o Remove unreachable code from atm proc (Hans Grobler) o wanrouter proc fixes(Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo) o Fix naming of GPL all over the code (Andre Dahlqvist) o sis900 new module locking (Jeff Garzik) o Remove unneeded private byte count from sb1000 (Jeff Garzik) o NCPfs didnt set s-maxbytes (Petr Vandrovec) o DEC lance cleanup (Jeff Garzik) o Tulip update(Jeff Garzik) o Multiple drivers last_rx and skb deref fixes(Jeff Garzik) o Make bonding new style (Jeff Garzik) o Remove dead definitions from 8390 code (Jeff Garzik) o 8139too updates (Jeff Garzik) o 82596 driver updates(Jeff Garzik) o Set last_rx on acenic (Jeff Garzik) o Update roadrunner to new module locking (Jeff Garzik) 2.4.0-ac10 o Merge Linus 2.4.1-8 o Add s-s_maxbytes to reiserfs (me) o Remove EHASHCOLLISION and make reiserfs thus(me) compatible with existing glibc/apps o Clean up oaknet driver (Hans Grobler) o PCnet32 / bug fix (Anton Blanchard) o c101
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
As I don't use initrd at all I am a bit out of my depth here but according to Documentation/Changes you need a new mkinitrd and the version suggested seems to be 2.8-1. Checking my up-to-date RedHat 7.0 workstation it has mkinitrd version 2.6-1, so this might be your problem? Best regards, Anton At 01:39 25/01/2001, Sergey Kubushin wrote: On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with ide and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I have the following output: === Cut === ide-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 32131 ide-probe-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 256950710 ext2.o: Can't handle sections of type 688840897 === Cut === I suspect that all modules are affected, but can't check it because kernel is unable to mount root filesystem. All of ac9-ac11 behave the same. ac4, vanilla 2.4.0 and a whole bunch of pre's are fine, so it looks like something was broken between ac4 and ac9 (I didn't compile anything inbetween). I use gcc-2.95.2, binutils-2.10.1.0.4, modutils-2.4.2, glibc-2.2.1. The initrd image is romfs. I don't think something was broken in romfs, 'coz all the programs run just fine outta the image (static ash, static insmod). Config is available and can be sent on request. Please let me know if I can help to find out what causes such a bug. [snip] -- "Programmers never die. They do a GOSUB without RETURN." - Unknown source -- Anton Altaparmakov aia21 at cam.ac.uk (replace at with @) Linux NTFS Maintainer ICQ: 8561279 / WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Anton Altaparmakov wrote: Don't be silly. I do not use RedHat (I do my own distribution, KSI Linux) and their mkinitrd is just a script. Furthermore, I don't have ext2fs in the kernel so their mkinitrd won't work. I do not have ide in the kernel either... As I don't use initrd at all I am a bit out of my depth here but according to Documentation/Changes you need a new mkinitrd and the version suggested seems to be 2.8-1. Checking my up-to-date RedHat 7.0 workstation it has mkinitrd version 2.6-1, so this might be your problem? Best regards, Anton At 01:39 25/01/2001, Sergey Kubushin wrote: On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with ide and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I have the following output: === Cut === ide-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 32131 ide-probe-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 256950710 ext2.o: Can't handle sections of type 688840897 === Cut === I suspect that all modules are affected, but can't check it because kernel is unable to mount root filesystem. All of ac9-ac11 behave the same. ac4, vanilla 2.4.0 and a whole bunch of pre's are fine, so it looks like something was broken between ac4 and ac9 (I didn't compile anything inbetween). I use gcc-2.95.2, binutils-2.10.1.0.4, modutils-2.4.2, glibc-2.2.1. The initrd image is romfs. I don't think something was broken in romfs, 'coz all the programs run just fine outta the image (static ash, static insmod). Config is available and can be sent on request. Please let me know if I can help to find out what causes such a bug. [snip] -- "Programmers never die. They do a GOSUB without RETURN." - Unknown source -- Anton Altaparmakov aia21 at cam.ac.uk (replace at with @) Linux NTFS Maintainer ICQ: 8561279 / WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ --- Sergey Kubushin Sr. Unix Administrator CyberBills, Inc.Phone: 702-567-8857 874 American Pacific Dr,Fax:702-567-8890 Henderson, NV, 89014 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Linux 2.4.0ac11
Working to clean all the modular natures of ATA/IDE now On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Sergey Kubushin wrote: On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Alan Cox wrote: Modules don't load. I do usually compile heavily modular kernels, with ide and ext2fs being also modular. When trying to load them from initrd, I have the following output: === Cut === ide-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 32131 ide-probe-mod.o: Can't handle sections of type 256950710 ext2.o: Can't handle sections of type 688840897 === Cut === I suspect that all modules are affected, but can't check it because kernel is unable to mount root filesystem. All of ac9-ac11 behave the same. ac4, vanilla 2.4.0 and a whole bunch of pre's are fine, so it looks like something was broken between ac4 and ac9 (I didn't compile anything inbetween). I use gcc-2.95.2, binutils-2.10.1.0.4, modutils-2.4.2, glibc-2.2.1. The initrd image is romfs. I don't think something was broken in romfs, 'coz all the programs run just fine outta the image (static ash, static insmod). Config is available and can be sent on request. Please let me know if I can help to find out what causes such a bug. ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/alan/2.4/ Slightly delayed because I had take some time out to fall off a horse.. 2.4.0-ac11 o Raid5 corruption fix(Neil Brown) o Add Etrax 'cris' architecture support (Axis) o APIC crash fixes(Ingo Molnar) o Jochen Hein moved (Jochen Hein) o Fix mm/slab.c doc (Matthew Wilcox) o Major NTFS updates (Anton Altaparmakov) o Make de4x5 driver work (Nathan Hand) o Fix vfb driver line length reporting(Geert Uytterhoeven) o Allow xirc2 config on kernel command line (David Luyer) o via audio mmap support, ioctl fixes (Rui Sousa) o Fix ncpfs limits(Petr Vandrovec) o Fix bios reading in i91xx scsi driver (Trevor Hemsley) o S/390 updates (Holger Smolinski) o Add pci dma mapping to epic100 (Francois Romieu) o Resync with Linus 2.4.1pre9 - Fix DRM bugs in pre9 (Linus Torvalds) - Fix HPFS tests in pre9(me) o Remove dead dsp56k/qpmouse inits(Hans Grobler) o uart401 module locking fixes(Chris Rankin) o Fix cs46xx build error in non module(Hans Grobler) o Update hdparm url (Andre Dahlqvist) o ibmmca updates (Michael Lang) o Fix smctr build problems(Hans Grobler) o Typo fixes (Ulrich Kunitz) o Fix depca to new style module stuff (Hans Grobler) | more love and attention still needed o New kmalloc checks in buz.c (Hans Grobler) o mct_u232 had wrong device id data (Adam J Richter) o aty128fb error path fixes (Hans Grobler) o Add radeon config help (Andre Dahlqvist) o Fix acpi header (Adam J Richter) o Add missing externs to bttv header (Hans Grobler) o Add missing externs to bridge (Hans Grobler) o Fix include/linux/rtc.h typo(John Fremlin) o Remove unreachable code from atm proc (Hans Grobler) o wanrouter proc fixes(Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo) o Fix naming of GPL all over the code (Andre Dahlqvist) o sis900 new module locking (Jeff Garzik) o Remove unneeded private byte count from sb1000 (Jeff Garzik) o NCPfs didnt set s-maxbytes (Petr Vandrovec) o DEC lance cleanup (Jeff Garzik) o Tulip update(Jeff Garzik) o Multiple drivers last_rx and skb deref fixes(Jeff Garzik) o Make bonding new style (Jeff Garzik) o Remove dead definitions from 8390 code (Jeff Garzik) o 8139too updates (Jeff Garzik) o 82596 driver updates(Jeff Garzik) o Set last_rx on acenic (Jeff Garzik) o Update roadrunner to new module locking (Jeff Garzik) 2.4.0-ac10 o Merge Linus 2.4.1-8 o Add s-s_maxbytes to reiserfs (me) o Remove EHASHCOLLISION and make reiserfs thus(me) compatible with existing glibc/apps o Clean up oaknet driver (Hans
