Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:34:10 -0600, Robert Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Karim Yaghmour wrote: >> That being said, shouldn't there be a way for the kernel to refuse to >> use this hd if it's not getting enough power. I don't know enough about >> USB to say, but isn't there something more elegant that could be done in >> software? > >Not really.. It seems like pretty much a matter of the controller saying > it can supply so much power, the drive says it uses so much power, but >one of them is lying and the drive ends up tripping the overcurrent. The drive itself may shutdown until power cycled. I sorted this issue some months ago with a 2.5" 6GB drive in USB enclosure and the fix was hardware, adding bypass capacitors to supply peak HDD current. Software cannot fix that. No dataloss, just apparent lockup from OS point of view. Drive fails to work on one laptop with a single USB port, but asking for 700mA from a 500mA USB port is too much, needs external 5V instead. Grant. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
Karim Yaghmour wrote: That being said, shouldn't there be a way for the kernel to refuse to use this hd if it's not getting enough power. I don't know enough about USB to say, but isn't there something more elegant that could be done in software? Not really.. It seems like pretty much a matter of the controller saying it can supply so much power, the drive says it uses so much power, but one of them is lying and the drive ends up tripping the overcurrent. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
Karim Yaghmour wrote: That being said, shouldn't there be a way for the kernel to refuse to use this hd if it's not getting enough power. I don't know enough about USB to say, but isn't there something more elegant that could be done in software? Not really.. It seems like pretty much a matter of the controller saying it can supply so much power, the drive says it uses so much power, but one of them is lying and the drive ends up tripping the overcurrent. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove nospam from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:34:10 -0600, Robert Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Karim Yaghmour wrote: That being said, shouldn't there be a way for the kernel to refuse to use this hd if it's not getting enough power. I don't know enough about USB to say, but isn't there something more elegant that could be done in software? Not really.. It seems like pretty much a matter of the controller saying it can supply so much power, the drive says it uses so much power, but one of them is lying and the drive ends up tripping the overcurrent. The drive itself may shutdown until power cycled. I sorted this issue some months ago with a 2.5 6GB drive in USB enclosure and the fix was hardware, adding bypass capacitors to supply peak HDD current. Software cannot fix that. No dataloss, just apparent lockup from OS point of view. Drive fails to work on one laptop with a single USB port, but asking for 700mA from a 500mA USB port is too much, needs external 5V instead. Grant. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
Alistair John Strachan wrote: > You can get special USB cables that link two USB ports' 5Vs together in > parallel, which seems to help supply the necessary current; after the HD has > spun up you can remove the second "dummy" USB connector (my laptop only has > two USB ports and I require the second port). Yeah, there was one of these in the box with the drive, but the first time I saw it I remember thinking: what the hell is this thing? Then when I figured it out, I found myself wondering whether the USB interface was ever planed for such a such and whether it wouldn't have been better to just ship a real adapter with the thing ... Anyhow, I will not be using the drive anymore without a powered hub. Thanks for all those that helped, Karim -- Author, Speaker, Developer, Consultant Pushing Embedded and Real-Time Linux Systems Beyond the Limits http://www.opersys.com || [EMAIL PROTECTED] || 1-866-677-4546 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
Alistair John Strachan wrote: You can get special USB cables that link two USB ports' 5Vs together in parallel, which seems to help supply the necessary current; after the HD has spun up you can remove the second dummy USB connector (my laptop only has two USB ports and I require the second port). Yeah, there was one of these in the box with the drive, but the first time I saw it I remember thinking: what the hell is this thing? Then when I figured it out, I found myself wondering whether the USB interface was ever planed for such a such and whether it wouldn't have been better to just ship a real adapter with the thing ... Anyhow, I will not be using the drive anymore without a powered hub. Thanks for all those that helped, Karim -- Author, Speaker, Developer, Consultant Pushing Embedded and Real-Time Linux Systems Beyond the Limits http://www.opersys.com || [EMAIL PROTECTED] || 1-866-677-4546 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tuesday 19 Jul 2005 17:47, Karim Yaghmour wrote: > I have a usb-attached HD that I use from time to time. When it's connected > to my desktop through a hub it works flawlessly. When connected to my Dell > D600 Laptop, however, it sometimes randomly exhibits a loud click (as if > the heads went berzerk) and the device goes unrecognized (i.e. the USB > layer drops the device and then redetects it again; meanwhile there is FS > corruption.) I've noticed my laptop is less able to output the required current for my portable HD than my desktop; either way it's probably not a good idea exceeding the USB specifications for current output @ 5V, so I'd recommend you use a powered hub or external PSU (if the HD supports one). Also a (slightly) nasty but functional trick is to have the power in when the HD initially spins up, then remove the power. Once the drive has spun up it seems to use a lot less power. You can get special USB cables that link two USB ports' 5Vs together in parallel, which seems to help supply the necessary current; after the HD has spun up you can remove the second "dummy" USB connector (my laptop only has two USB ports and I require the second port). -- Cheers, Alistair. personal: alistair()devzero!co!uk university: s0348365()sms!ed!ac!uk student:CS/CSim Undergraduate contact:1F2 55 South Clerk Street, Edinburgh. EH8 9PP. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tuesday 19 Jul 2005 17:47, Karim Yaghmour wrote: I have a usb-attached HD that I use from time to time. When it's connected to my desktop through a hub it works flawlessly. When connected to my Dell D600 Laptop, however, it sometimes randomly exhibits a loud click (as if the heads went berzerk) and the device goes unrecognized (i.e. the USB layer drops the device and then redetects it again; meanwhile there is FS corruption.) I've noticed my laptop is less able to output the required current for my portable HD than my desktop; either way it's probably not a good idea exceeding the USB specifications for current output @ 5V, so I'd recommend you use a powered hub or external PSU (if the HD supports one). Also a (slightly) nasty but functional trick is to have the power in when the HD initially spins up, then remove the power. Once the drive has spun up it seems to use a lot less power. You can get special USB cables that link two USB ports' 5Vs together in parallel, which seems to help supply the necessary current; after the HD has spun up you can remove the second dummy USB connector (my laptop only has two USB ports and I require the second port). -- Cheers, Alistair. personal: alistair()devzero!co!uk university: s0348365()sms!ed!ac!uk student:CS/CSim Undergraduate contact:1F2 55 South Clerk Street, Edinburgh. EH8 9PP. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 04:16:55PM -0400, Lee Revell wrote: > On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 15:29 -0400, Greg KH wrote: > > Ugh, you have a bad device or power supply, or aren't giving it enough > > power to drive the thing. Nothing we can do in Linux for that, sorry. > > Buy a wall-powered usb hub, that usually helps. > > > > I get the same messages on boot from a bus with no devices connected to > it (hub 4). I have not connected the motherboard header because I don't > use that bus, could this be related? Yes, it's probably just not grounded properly because the header is not connected. It's harmless and you can just ignore it. thanks, greg k-h - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 15:29 -0400, Greg KH wrote: > Ugh, you have a bad device or power supply, or aren't giving it enough > power to drive the thing. Nothing we can do in Linux for that, sorry. > Buy a wall-powered usb hub, that usually helps. > I get the same messages on boot from a bus with no devices connected to it (hub 4). I have not connected the motherboard header because I don't use that bus, could this be related? PCI0 USB0 USB1 USB2 USB3 USB4 USB5 USB6 LAN0 AC97 MC97 usbcore: registered new driver usbfs usbcore: registered new driver hub USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver v2.2 uhci_hcd :00:10.0: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller uhci_hcd :00:10.0: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1 uhci_hcd :00:10.0: irq 11, io base 0xd400 hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found hub 1-0:1.0: 2 ports detected uhci_hcd :00:10.1: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (#2) uhci_hcd :00:10.1: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 2 uhci_hcd :00:10.1: irq 10, io base 0xd800 hub 2-0:1.0: USB hub found hub 2-0:1.0: 2 ports detected uhci_hcd :00:10.2: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (#3) uhci_hcd :00:10.2: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 3 uhci_hcd :00:10.2: irq 12, io base 0xdc00 hub 3-0:1.0: USB hub found hub 3-0:1.0: 2 ports detected ehci_hcd :00:10.3: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 ehci_hcd :00:10.3: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 4 ehci_hcd :00:10.3: irq 14, io mem 0xea004000 ehci_hcd :00:10.3: USB 2.0 initialized, EHCI 1.00, driver 10 Dec 2004 hub 4-0:1.0: USB hub found hub 4-0:1.0: 6 ports detected hub 4-0:1.0: over-current change on port 5 hub 4-0:1.0: over-current change on port 6 usb 2-2: new low speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2 input: USB HID v1.00 Mouse [Microsoft Microsoft Trackball Optical®] on usb-:00:10.1-2 usbcore: registered new driver usbhid drivers/usb/input/hid-core.c: v2.01:USB HID core driver Lee - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 03:27:18PM -0400, Karim Yaghmour wrote: > > That being said, shouldn't there be a way for the kernel to refuse to > use this hd if it's not getting enough power. I don't know enough about > USB to say, but isn't there something more elegant that could be done in > software? Nope, it's a hardware/electrical issue :) thanks, greg k-h - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
Greg KH wrote: > Ugh, you have a bad device or power supply, or aren't giving it enough > power to drive the thing. Nothing we can do in Linux for that, sorry. > Buy a wall-powered usb hub, that usually helps. I have one. I naively thought I could just plug the drive directly to the laptop without using the wall-powered hub. I'll try that instead. Thanks. That being said, shouldn't there be a way for the kernel to refuse to use this hd if it's not getting enough power. I don't know enough about USB to say, but isn't there something more elegant that could be done in software? Karim -- Author, Speaker, Developer, Consultant Pushing Embedded and Real-Time Linux Systems Beyond the Limits http://www.opersys.com || [EMAIL PROTECTED] || 1-866-677-4546 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 12:47:32PM -0400, Karim Yaghmour wrote: > > I have a usb-attached HD that I use from time to time. When it's connected > to my desktop through a hub it works flawlessly. When connected to my Dell > D600 Laptop, however, it sometimes randomly exhibits a loud click (as if the > heads went berzerk) and the device goes unrecognized (i.e. the USB layer drops > the device and then redetects it again; meanwhile there is FS corruption.) > > The same behavior happens with 2.4.x and 2.6.x > > In /var/log/messages I see something like: > hub 3-0:1.0: over-current change on port 1 > hub 1-0:1.0: over-current change on port 3 > ... > usb 1-3: USB disconnect, address 2 > usb 1-3: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 3 Ugh, you have a bad device or power supply, or aren't giving it enough power to drive the thing. Nothing we can do in Linux for that, sorry. Buy a wall-powered usb hub, that usually helps. Good luck, greg k-h - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 12:47:32PM -0400, Karim Yaghmour wrote: I have a usb-attached HD that I use from time to time. When it's connected to my desktop through a hub it works flawlessly. When connected to my Dell D600 Laptop, however, it sometimes randomly exhibits a loud click (as if the heads went berzerk) and the device goes unrecognized (i.e. the USB layer drops the device and then redetects it again; meanwhile there is FS corruption.) The same behavior happens with 2.4.x and 2.6.x In /var/log/messages I see something like: hub 3-0:1.0: over-current change on port 1 hub 1-0:1.0: over-current change on port 3 ... usb 1-3: USB disconnect, address 2 usb 1-3: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 3 Ugh, you have a bad device or power supply, or aren't giving it enough power to drive the thing. Nothing we can do in Linux for that, sorry. Buy a wall-powered usb hub, that usually helps. Good luck, greg k-h - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
Greg KH wrote: Ugh, you have a bad device or power supply, or aren't giving it enough power to drive the thing. Nothing we can do in Linux for that, sorry. Buy a wall-powered usb hub, that usually helps. I have one. I naively thought I could just plug the drive directly to the laptop without using the wall-powered hub. I'll try that instead. Thanks. That being said, shouldn't there be a way for the kernel to refuse to use this hd if it's not getting enough power. I don't know enough about USB to say, but isn't there something more elegant that could be done in software? Karim -- Author, Speaker, Developer, Consultant Pushing Embedded and Real-Time Linux Systems Beyond the Limits http://www.opersys.com || [EMAIL PROTECTED] || 1-866-677-4546 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 03:27:18PM -0400, Karim Yaghmour wrote: That being said, shouldn't there be a way for the kernel to refuse to use this hd if it's not getting enough power. I don't know enough about USB to say, but isn't there something more elegant that could be done in software? Nope, it's a hardware/electrical issue :) thanks, greg k-h - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 15:29 -0400, Greg KH wrote: Ugh, you have a bad device or power supply, or aren't giving it enough power to drive the thing. Nothing we can do in Linux for that, sorry. Buy a wall-powered usb hub, that usually helps. I get the same messages on boot from a bus with no devices connected to it (hub 4). I have not connected the motherboard header because I don't use that bus, could this be related? PCI0 USB0 USB1 USB2 USB3 USB4 USB5 USB6 LAN0 AC97 MC97 usbcore: registered new driver usbfs usbcore: registered new driver hub USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver v2.2 uhci_hcd :00:10.0: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller uhci_hcd :00:10.0: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1 uhci_hcd :00:10.0: irq 11, io base 0xd400 hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found hub 1-0:1.0: 2 ports detected uhci_hcd :00:10.1: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (#2) uhci_hcd :00:10.1: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 2 uhci_hcd :00:10.1: irq 10, io base 0xd800 hub 2-0:1.0: USB hub found hub 2-0:1.0: 2 ports detected uhci_hcd :00:10.2: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (#3) uhci_hcd :00:10.2: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 3 uhci_hcd :00:10.2: irq 12, io base 0xdc00 hub 3-0:1.0: USB hub found hub 3-0:1.0: 2 ports detected ehci_hcd :00:10.3: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 ehci_hcd :00:10.3: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 4 ehci_hcd :00:10.3: irq 14, io mem 0xea004000 ehci_hcd :00:10.3: USB 2.0 initialized, EHCI 1.00, driver 10 Dec 2004 hub 4-0:1.0: USB hub found hub 4-0:1.0: 6 ports detected hub 4-0:1.0: over-current change on port 5 hub 4-0:1.0: over-current change on port 6 usb 2-2: new low speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2 input: USB HID v1.00 Mouse [Microsoft Microsoft Trackball Optical®] on usb-:00:10.1-2 usbcore: registered new driver usbhid drivers/usb/input/hid-core.c: v2.01:USB HID core driver Lee - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Weird USB errors on HD
On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 04:16:55PM -0400, Lee Revell wrote: On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 15:29 -0400, Greg KH wrote: Ugh, you have a bad device or power supply, or aren't giving it enough power to drive the thing. Nothing we can do in Linux for that, sorry. Buy a wall-powered usb hub, that usually helps. I get the same messages on boot from a bus with no devices connected to it (hub 4). I have not connected the motherboard header because I don't use that bus, could this be related? Yes, it's probably just not grounded properly because the header is not connected. It's harmless and you can just ignore it. thanks, greg k-h - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
