Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 02:12:22PM +0100, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: > On 31 Jan 2007 11:08:14 +0100, Andi Kleen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Greg KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > >> What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair > >> that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from > >> kernel development never to be seen again? > > floppy.c is not really that ugly or complicated... > > It just needs some care: > > * cleanup of the over-usage of macros (DP macro etc) > * DocBook documentation would be nice > * make debugging printks optional by using macros in a smart way > (see libata code for examples) > * tracking and fixing current regressions * piece of shit FSM buried in various continuation methods. * one hell of a problem with regression testing. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 01/02/07, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 31 Jan 2007 11:08:14 +0100, Andi Kleen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greg KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair
> > that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from
> > kernel development never to be seen again?
floppy.c is not really that ugly or complicated...
It just needs some care:
* cleanup of the over-usage of macros (DP macro etc)
* DocBook documentation would be nice
* make debugging printks optional by using macros in a smart way
(see libata code for examples)
* tracking and fixing current regressions
Once the above is done there would be more room
for the future cleanups and improvements like:
* using bios directly in copy_buffer()
(or avoiding copy completely if possible - need somebody to look at code)
* map user pages instead of memcpy-ing them in fd_copy{in,out}()
* unifying/merging arch specific code into floppy.c (not sure of this one)
* smarter way to handle IRQs
floppy.c rewrite offers an unique chance to learn by practice
from doing simple tasks (macros cleanup) to more advances ones
(involving block layer mechanisms) up to really difficult ones
(IRQ/"actual work" handling methods).
I could help with reviewing patches in case anybody is interested
and have patience to deal with few days delays for reply. However
please don't add me to MAINTAINERS as floppy diver maintainer.
:)
> Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new
> hardware and no obscure formats ("newfloppy.c") would be an excellent
> newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty
> new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes.
>
> Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out.
* this is unlikely that we need to add support for new hardware
* by doing the rewrite from scratch we will lose changes history
and possibility to easily track regressions
* for a long time we would have to deal with both drivers
This is just not worth it IMHO.
Good points. I'll try cleaning up the existing driver instead of doing
a complete rewrite.
--
Jesper Juhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
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Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 31 Jan 2007 11:08:14 +0100, Andi Kleen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Greg KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair
> that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from
> kernel development never to be seen again?
floppy.c is not really that ugly or complicated...
It just needs some care:
* cleanup of the over-usage of macros (DP macro etc)
* DocBook documentation would be nice
* make debugging printks optional by using macros in a smart way
(see libata code for examples)
* tracking and fixing current regressions
Once the above is done there would be more room
for the future cleanups and improvements like:
* using bios directly in copy_buffer()
(or avoiding copy completely if possible - need somebody to look at code)
* map user pages instead of memcpy-ing them in fd_copy{in,out}()
* unifying/merging arch specific code into floppy.c (not sure of this one)
* smarter way to handle IRQs
floppy.c rewrite offers an unique chance to learn by practice
from doing simple tasks (macros cleanup) to more advances ones
(involving block layer mechanisms) up to really difficult ones
(IRQ/"actual work" handling methods).
I could help with reviewing patches in case anybody is interested
and have patience to deal with few days delays for reply. However
please don't add me to MAINTAINERS as floppy diver maintainer.
:)
Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new
hardware and no obscure formats ("newfloppy.c") would be an excellent
newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty
new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes.
Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out.
* this is unlikely that we need to add support for new hardware
* by doing the rewrite from scratch we will lose changes history
and possibility to easily track regressions
* for a long time we would have to deal with both drivers
This is just not worth it IMHO.
Bart
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Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 31 Jan 2007 11:08:14 +0100, Andi Kleen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair
that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from
kernel development never to be seen again?
floppy.c is not really that ugly or complicated...
It just needs some care:
* cleanup of the over-usage of macros (DP macro etc)
* DocBook documentation would be nice
* make debugging printks optional by using macros in a smart way
(see libata code for examples)
* tracking and fixing current regressions
Once the above is done there would be more room
for the future cleanups and improvements like:
* using bios directly in copy_buffer()
(or avoiding copy completely if possible - need somebody to look at code)
* map user pages instead of memcpy-ing them in fd_copy{in,out}()
* unifying/merging arch specific code into floppy.c (not sure of this one)
* smarter way to handle IRQs
floppy.c rewrite offers an unique chance to learn by practice
from doing simple tasks (macros cleanup) to more advances ones
(involving block layer mechanisms) up to really difficult ones
(IRQ/actual work handling methods).
I could help with reviewing patches in case anybody is interested
and have patience to deal with few days delays for reply. However
please don't add me to MAINTAINERS as floppy diver maintainer.
:)
Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new
hardware and no obscure formats (newfloppy.c) would be an excellent
newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty
new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes.
Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out.
* this is unlikely that we need to add support for new hardware
* by doing the rewrite from scratch we will lose changes history
and possibility to easily track regressions
* for a long time we would have to deal with both drivers
This is just not worth it IMHO.
Bart
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the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 01/02/07, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 31 Jan 2007 11:08:14 +0100, Andi Kleen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair
that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from
kernel development never to be seen again?
floppy.c is not really that ugly or complicated...
It just needs some care:
* cleanup of the over-usage of macros (DP macro etc)
* DocBook documentation would be nice
* make debugging printks optional by using macros in a smart way
(see libata code for examples)
* tracking and fixing current regressions
Once the above is done there would be more room
for the future cleanups and improvements like:
* using bios directly in copy_buffer()
(or avoiding copy completely if possible - need somebody to look at code)
* map user pages instead of memcpy-ing them in fd_copy{in,out}()
* unifying/merging arch specific code into floppy.c (not sure of this one)
* smarter way to handle IRQs
floppy.c rewrite offers an unique chance to learn by practice
from doing simple tasks (macros cleanup) to more advances ones
(involving block layer mechanisms) up to really difficult ones
(IRQ/actual work handling methods).
I could help with reviewing patches in case anybody is interested
and have patience to deal with few days delays for reply. However
please don't add me to MAINTAINERS as floppy diver maintainer.
:)
Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new
hardware and no obscure formats (newfloppy.c) would be an excellent
newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty
new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes.
Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out.
* this is unlikely that we need to add support for new hardware
* by doing the rewrite from scratch we will lose changes history
and possibility to easily track regressions
* for a long time we would have to deal with both drivers
This is just not worth it IMHO.
Good points. I'll try cleaning up the existing driver instead of doing
a complete rewrite.
--
Jesper Juhl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in
the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 02:12:22PM +0100, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote: On 31 Jan 2007 11:08:14 +0100, Andi Kleen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from kernel development never to be seen again? floppy.c is not really that ugly or complicated... It just needs some care: * cleanup of the over-usage of macros (DP macro etc) * DocBook documentation would be nice * make debugging printks optional by using macros in a smart way (see libata code for examples) * tracking and fixing current regressions * piece of shit FSM buried in various continuation methods. * one hell of a problem with regression testing. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Wed, 2007-01-31 19:24:54 +0100, Jan Engelhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How much different hardware does the (old)floppy.c do? I imagine that > today, where floppies phase out, there will be, in descending order: > > * USB floppy drives (atm handled by sd.c, could be better to have sf.c) > * FDCs on mainboards > * 1.44M drives > * 1.2M drives > > Even a working 2.88M, as cool as it sounds, never landed in my hands ever > since I've been into computing. Perhaps the oldest, smallest disk I once I do own a machine that has one :) Those original IBM PS/2 machines had them. On the other hand, Linux' floppy.c could do a bit better to help archiveing some of the scurrile floppy formats. There is at least one floppy imaging project to store floppy images for uncommon formats. It would be nice it the Linux driver could handle something like that... MfG, JBG -- Jan-Benedict Glaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-172-7608481 Signature of: Alles wird gut! ...und heute wirds schon ein bißchen besser. the second : signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Jan 31 2007 13:58, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 07:24:54PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote: >> How much different hardware does the (old)floppy.c do? I imagine that >> today, where floppies phase out, there will be, in descending order: >> >> * USB floppy drives (atm handled by sd.c, could be better to have sf.c) >> * FDCs on mainboards >> * 1.44M drives >> * 1.2M drives >> >> Even a working 2.88M, as cool as it sounds, never landed in my hands ever >> since I've been into computing. Perhaps the oldest, smallest disk I once >> had was a 360K 5.25", but the B floppy drive to read it was already >> multi-compliant that read up to 1.2M disks. > >So what is wrong with the current floppy driver (other than being 120k >of code apparently)? >From my standpoint, nothing. Developers knowing it better might disagree. (It looks a little ugly, but well, it worked last time I tried.) >As for floppies that should work, well I imagine on x86 that would have >to be 360k and 1200k 5-1/4", and 720k, 1200k and 1440k 3-1/2". Would >perhaps be nice to still support 160, 180 and 320k on the 5-1/4" drive >too just in case anyone ever wants to read one. Of course some people Do the special formats (entries 9, 12, 13, 16, 17 in floppy.c) even cost something more than their line in that struct? >might also want support for the higher capacity formats on the 1440k Note that I was able to format a floppy with 1680k [21 spt] once under Linux (including using it). No other OS (including the BIOS) could do something with it though, and it had to be accessed explicitly through /dev/fd0u1680. Maybe also the 1760k [22 spt] one, but can't remember. With regular "1.44M" disks you get in any store, to be noted. I'm glad to still have a 5.25" drive buried in a 386 [linux 2.6.13] :=) Jan -- ft: http://freshmeat.net/p/chaostables/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 07:24:54PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote: > How much different hardware does the (old)floppy.c do? I imagine that > today, where floppies phase out, there will be, in descending order: > > * USB floppy drives (atm handled by sd.c, could be better to have sf.c) > * FDCs on mainboards > * 1.44M drives > * 1.2M drives > > Even a working 2.88M, as cool as it sounds, never landed in my hands ever > since I've been into computing. Perhaps the oldest, smallest disk I once > had was a 360K 5.25", but the B floppy drive to read it was already > multi-compliant that read up to 1.2M disks. So what is wrong with the current floppy driver (other than being 120k of code apparently)? As for floppies that should work, well I imagine on x86 that would have to be 360k and 1200k 5-1/4", and 720k, 1200k and 1440k 3-1/2". Would perhaps be nice to still support 160, 180 and 320k on the 5-1/4" drive too just in case anyone ever wants to read one. Of course some people might also want support for the higher capacity formats on the 1440k drive. 2880k would perhaps be nice too for those few people that have one (I have only ever seen them on decstations, where I haven't seen any driver ever), and I think a few IBMs. I have never seen a 2880k disk. In non x86 land, I would think there is a seperate floppy driver given the odd formats of some of those systems. -- Len Sorensen - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Jan 31 2007 18:24, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 11:08:14AM +0100, Andi Kleen wrote:
>> Greg KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> >
>> > What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair
>> > that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from
>> > kernel development never to be seen again?
>>
>> Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new
>> hardware and no obscure formats ("newfloppy.c") would be an excellent
>> newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty
>> new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes.
>>
>> Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out.
>>...
>
>Considering how widespread floppies are, these two sentences are
>contradictions.
>
>If the goal is to phase out the old floppy driver, a new driver will
>have to gain support for more or less all hardware the old driver
>supports...
How much different hardware does the (old)floppy.c do? I imagine that
today, where floppies phase out, there will be, in descending order:
* USB floppy drives (atm handled by sd.c, could be better to have sf.c)
* FDCs on mainboards
* 1.44M drives
* 1.2M drives
Even a working 2.88M, as cool as it sounds, never landed in my hands ever
since I've been into computing. Perhaps the oldest, smallest disk I once
had was a 360K 5.25", but the B floppy drive to read it was already
multi-compliant that read up to 1.2M disks.
Jan
--
ft: http://freshmeat.net/p/chaostables/
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Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 11:08:14AM +0100, Andi Kleen wrote:
> Greg KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair
> > that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from
> > kernel development never to be seen again?
>
> Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new
> hardware and no obscure formats ("newfloppy.c") would be an excellent
> newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty
> new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes.
>
> Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out.
>...
Considering how widespread floppies are, these two sentences are
contradictions.
If the goal is to phase out the old floppy driver, a new driver will
have to gain support for more or less all hardware the old driver
supports...
> -Andi
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
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Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
When you say newbie? Do you mean coding newbie? Or... just someone who
hasn't done a driver before?
either way I'd like to be somewhat involved in the process so I see how
things are done.
--martin
Andi Kleen wrote:
> Greg KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair
>> that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from
>> kernel development never to be seen again?
>
> Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new
> hardware and no obscure formats ("newfloppy.c") would be an excellent
> newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty
> new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes.
>
> Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out.
>
> If anybody is interested...? (non newbies would be welcome too of course)
>
> -Andi
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
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Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 31/01/07, Trent Waddington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 1/31/07, Jesper Juhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sounds like a fun little project. I'll bite. Let me know when you have something and I'll go buy those floppies, test it and fix a bug or two if I find 'em. Sure. Will do. Thanks. -- Jesper Juhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 1/31/07, Jesper Juhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sounds like a fun little project. I'll bite. Let me know when you have something and I'll go buy those floppies, test it and fix a bug or two if I find 'em. Trent - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 31 Jan 2007 11:08:14 +0100, Andi Kleen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Greg KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair
> that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from
> kernel development never to be seen again?
Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new
hardware and no obscure formats ("newfloppy.c") would be an excellent
newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty
new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes.
Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out.
If anybody is interested...? (non newbies would be welcome too of course)
Sounds like a fun little project. I'll bite.
--
Jesper Juhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
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Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
Greg KH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair
> that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from
> kernel development never to be seen again?
Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new
hardware and no obscure formats ("newfloppy.c") would be an excellent
newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty
new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes.
Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out.
If anybody is interested...? (non newbies would be welcome too of course)
-Andi
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Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from kernel development never to be seen again? Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new hardware and no obscure formats (newfloppy.c) would be an excellent newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes. Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out. If anybody is interested...? (non newbies would be welcome too of course) -Andi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 31 Jan 2007 11:08:14 +0100, Andi Kleen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from kernel development never to be seen again? Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new hardware and no obscure formats (newfloppy.c) would be an excellent newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes. Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out. If anybody is interested...? (non newbies would be welcome too of course) Sounds like a fun little project. I'll bite. -- Jesper Juhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 1/31/07, Jesper Juhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a fun little project. I'll bite. Let me know when you have something and I'll go buy those floppies, test it and fix a bug or two if I find 'em. Trent - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On 31/01/07, Trent Waddington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/31/07, Jesper Juhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a fun little project. I'll bite. Let me know when you have something and I'll go buy those floppies, test it and fix a bug or two if I find 'em. Sure. Will do. Thanks. -- Jesper Juhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't top-post http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html Plain text mails only, please http://www.expita.com/nomime.html - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
When you say newbie? Do you mean coding newbie? Or... just someone who hasn't done a driver before? either way I'd like to be somewhat involved in the process so I see how things are done. --martin Andi Kleen wrote: Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from kernel development never to be seen again? Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new hardware and no obscure formats (newfloppy.c) would be an excellent newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes. Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out. If anybody is interested...? (non newbies would be welcome too of course) -Andi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 11:08:14AM +0100, Andi Kleen wrote: Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from kernel development never to be seen again? Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new hardware and no obscure formats (newfloppy.c) would be an excellent newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes. Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out. ... Considering how widespread floppies are, these two sentences are contradictions. If the goal is to phase out the old floppy driver, a new driver will have to gain support for more or less all hardware the old driver supports... -Andi cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Jan 31 2007 18:24, Adrian Bunk wrote: On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 11:08:14AM +0100, Andi Kleen wrote: Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What? Throw a fresh-faced newbie instantly into the tar-pit of despair that floppy.c is? Do you want everyone just to run screaming from kernel development never to be seen again? Doing a from-scratch rewrite of floppy.c only supporting new hardware and no obscure formats (newfloppy.c) would be an excellent newbie project imho. This means for someone who is still pretty new, but wants to get their fingers wet with more complicated changes. Then over time (old-)floppy.c could be phased out. ... Considering how widespread floppies are, these two sentences are contradictions. If the goal is to phase out the old floppy driver, a new driver will have to gain support for more or less all hardware the old driver supports... How much different hardware does the (old)floppy.c do? I imagine that today, where floppies phase out, there will be, in descending order: * USB floppy drives (atm handled by sd.c, could be better to have sf.c) * FDCs on mainboards * 1.44M drives * 1.2M drives Even a working 2.88M, as cool as it sounds, never landed in my hands ever since I've been into computing. Perhaps the oldest, smallest disk I once had was a 360K 5.25, but the B floppy drive to read it was already multi-compliant that read up to 1.2M disks. Jan -- ft: http://freshmeat.net/p/chaostables/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 07:24:54PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote: How much different hardware does the (old)floppy.c do? I imagine that today, where floppies phase out, there will be, in descending order: * USB floppy drives (atm handled by sd.c, could be better to have sf.c) * FDCs on mainboards * 1.44M drives * 1.2M drives Even a working 2.88M, as cool as it sounds, never landed in my hands ever since I've been into computing. Perhaps the oldest, smallest disk I once had was a 360K 5.25, but the B floppy drive to read it was already multi-compliant that read up to 1.2M disks. So what is wrong with the current floppy driver (other than being 120k of code apparently)? As for floppies that should work, well I imagine on x86 that would have to be 360k and 1200k 5-1/4, and 720k, 1200k and 1440k 3-1/2. Would perhaps be nice to still support 160, 180 and 320k on the 5-1/4 drive too just in case anyone ever wants to read one. Of course some people might also want support for the higher capacity formats on the 1440k drive. 2880k would perhaps be nice too for those few people that have one (I have only ever seen them on decstations, where I haven't seen any driver ever), and I think a few IBMs. I have never seen a 2880k disk. In non x86 land, I would think there is a seperate floppy driver given the odd formats of some of those systems. -- Len Sorensen - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Jan 31 2007 13:58, Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 07:24:54PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote: How much different hardware does the (old)floppy.c do? I imagine that today, where floppies phase out, there will be, in descending order: * USB floppy drives (atm handled by sd.c, could be better to have sf.c) * FDCs on mainboards * 1.44M drives * 1.2M drives Even a working 2.88M, as cool as it sounds, never landed in my hands ever since I've been into computing. Perhaps the oldest, smallest disk I once had was a 360K 5.25, but the B floppy drive to read it was already multi-compliant that read up to 1.2M disks. So what is wrong with the current floppy driver (other than being 120k of code apparently)? From my standpoint, nothing. Developers knowing it better might disagree. (It looks a little ugly, but well, it worked last time I tried.) As for floppies that should work, well I imagine on x86 that would have to be 360k and 1200k 5-1/4, and 720k, 1200k and 1440k 3-1/2. Would perhaps be nice to still support 160, 180 and 320k on the 5-1/4 drive too just in case anyone ever wants to read one. Of course some people Do the special formats (entries 9, 12, 13, 16, 17 in floppy.c) even cost something more than their line in that struct? might also want support for the higher capacity formats on the 1440k Note that I was able to format a floppy with 1680k [21 spt] once under Linux (including using it). No other OS (including the BIOS) could do something with it though, and it had to be accessed explicitly through /dev/fd0u1680. Maybe also the 1760k [22 spt] one, but can't remember. With regular 1.44M disks you get in any store, to be noted. I'm glad to still have a 5.25 drive buried in a 386 [linux 2.6.13] :=) Jan -- ft: http://freshmeat.net/p/chaostables/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Rewriting floppy.c was Re: Free Linux Driver Development!
On Wed, 2007-01-31 19:24:54 +0100, Jan Engelhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much different hardware does the (old)floppy.c do? I imagine that today, where floppies phase out, there will be, in descending order: * USB floppy drives (atm handled by sd.c, could be better to have sf.c) * FDCs on mainboards * 1.44M drives * 1.2M drives Even a working 2.88M, as cool as it sounds, never landed in my hands ever since I've been into computing. Perhaps the oldest, smallest disk I once I do own a machine that has one :) Those original IBM PS/2 machines had them. On the other hand, Linux' floppy.c could do a bit better to help archiveing some of the scurrile floppy formats. There is at least one floppy imaging project to store floppy images for uncommon formats. It would be nice it the Linux driver could handle something like that... MfG, JBG -- Jan-Benedict Glaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-172-7608481 Signature of: Alles wird gut! ...und heute wirds schon ein bißchen besser. the second : signature.asc Description: Digital signature
