Ummmm.... http://christchurch.lug.net.nz/

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Okay, I'm confused, I went to the site to find out when the
next meeting was when I was at work today and didn't have
access to my email and it looks like strange mumbo has
occurred or did I miss something?

J.

RE: send mail and relaying

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

If it's delivered to that box rather than relayed to
another make sure your domain is listed in sendmail.cw

JeremyB.

-Original Message-
From: Guy Steven [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2001 2:40 p.m.
To: 'CLUG'
Subject: send mail and relaying



I have having trouble configuring sendmail. I though I had it right, but it
obviously isn't.

I have a rh7 box acting as a mail server. It sits behind another rh7 box
running Clark Connect as a firewall.
This box sits behind a nokia adsl modem connected to jetstream with paradise
as the ISP.

I have a domain mydomain.co.nz with a static IP address.

port 25 is pinholed through to the mail server. Now that the domain & static
IP address are up and running, mail can't be received. I get a message to
say relaying not allowed.

I gave the access_db feature enabled and the current access file looks like
this:

# Check the /usr/doc/sendmail-8.9.3/README.cf file for a description
# of the format of this file. (search for access_db in that file)
# The /usr/doc/sendmail-8.9.3/README.cf is part of the sendmail-doc
# package.
#
# by default we allow relaying from localhost...
localhost.localdomain   RELAY
localhost   RELAY
127.0.0.1   RELAY
192.168.1   RELAY
# Entries from obsoleted /etc/mail/deny
# Entries from obsoleted /etc/mail/relay_allow
# Entries from obsoleted /etc/mail/ip_allow
# Entries from obsoleted /etc/mail/name_allow

the current sendmail.cf file is based on the following
 cat st1new.*

include(`../m4/cf.m4')
VERSIONID(`st1's setup testing delayed smtp delivery')dnl
OSTYPE(`linux')
FEATURE(access_db, hash -o /etc/mail/access)dnl
FEATURE(nodns)dnl
FEATURE(nocanonify)
FEATURE(always_add_domain)
FEATURE(local_procmail)
define(`confDIAL_DELAY', `20s')
define(`SMTP_MAILER_FLAGS', `e')
define(`SMART_HOST',`smtp:smtp.paradise.net.nz')
MAILER(smtp)
MAILER(procmail)

I had previously tested the system by sending mail directly to the ip
address from a windows mail client connected via a different ISP and it
worked. Now mail addressed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] gets rejected.

Can anyone advise what  I need to do to get this working.

RE: Booting hdb using Lilo.

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Dude, find a nice person with an install of NT/2K and mount your
harddrive in their machine, altho' NTFS is a good idea, things like
this are often a good reason to run FAT16/32 on your boot partition.

If you get stuck you're most welcome to chuck your drive in my
windoze machine.

Jeremy.

-Original Message-
From: Mike Pearce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 26 October 2001 3:49 p.m.
To: linux
Subject: Re: Booting hdb using Lilo.



I can recommend against the following... I just spent the last 40minutes
trying to edit the &^%%$ boot.ini file to recover from the problems it
caused... and windows2000 still isnt working!!!

They dont even have a simple line editor in the recovery options!!!
Not one that I could find anyhow.

Will investigate further at a later date... if I get it running again.


Mike.


On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:19, you wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Yuri DeGroot wrote:
> > Are you saying that the windoze kernel/bootloader
> > is not even able to boot unless it thinks it's
> > on the primary master drive??
>
> actually, the problem isn't with winnt/2000/xp - it's simply that Mike
> didn't edit the 'boot.ini' on the drive to reflect the changed drives (he
> initially had that drive as hda during
> install)
>
> [boot loader]
> timeout=5
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
> [operating systems]
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows 2000
> Professional" /fastdetect
>
> < you need to change the rdisk value >
>
> --
> --
-
>---
>
> |o John Davis   phone:+64-3-3642461 mobile:+64-25-6223326
fax:+64-3-3642110
> | o| o[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> | o| o   (Depart)mental Programmer,Chemistry Department
> | o| o University of Canterbury,Christchurch, New Zealand
> | o| o  NZ Climbing Info -
> | http://www.geocities.com/nzclimbing/ o|

--
---
Linux is the future!!
http://www.linux.org/

RE: MS Exchange migrations

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

H, seems a bit like a stick with what works currently unless theres 
a major reason to change?

Exchange mailboxes can be exported to pst easily, outlook client can 
then use those as their 'personal folders' stored on a network drive
or local pc, network drive better of course, outlook can do pop/smtp
so setting up that machine to do pop/smtp/samba/whatever would be
trivial, do they use any of the groupware functions?

JeremyB.

-Original Message-
From: Craig Falconer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, 12 November 2001 10:00 a.m.
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: MS Exchange migrations


Has anyone ever migrated a MS Exchange server to something nicer?  I've got
one here that would be far nicer as a linux box... a PIII 450 with 128 Mb
ram.

However, users don't want to change their software (MS Exchange client) and
they don't want to loose stored email.

What are my options?  (mister Google wasn't particularly helpful)

RE: Can't telnet to local machine

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Not an incredibly useful comment but who here uses telnet these
days?  now that theres some damn fine windows ssh clients like
putty :-)

J.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, 11 October 2001 11:45 a.m.
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Can't telnet to local machine


Hi everyone,

Something rather odd has recently occured to a machine and I can't telnet 
to it anymore. I can rlogin OK, but telnet won't happen. The 
/var/adm/messages file is saying...

telnet/tcp: bind: Address already in use

and the error is produced by inetd. rpcbind is running, but not bind in a 
DNS sense. As far as I remember, no config changes have occurred for this 
to happen.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Steven

RE: firewall/routers

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I don't think universities are designed to teach you practical things,
thats what polytechs are for, however they do teach you how to think
which is more important, I've used very little of my cosc degree since
I left in 97, but also I only ever thought about it as a foot in the
door, pretty much everything I learnt in my own time was more valuable,
they never taught us anything at uni about windows terminal server
(sorry to swear at you guys, but I have to make a living somehow!! ;-).

JeremyB.

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Hausler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2001 2:34 a.m.
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: firewall/routers


> Hell, yes.  I started with knowing nothing.  Now I know slightly more than
> nothing.  It is amusing when final year computer science students start
> e-mailing me for advice.

Not really, rather worrying actually.  I would say I probably learnt 10
times more about computers from this mailing list than my 3 years of cosc.

100 times more by having part time jobs during my studies.

Whats really disturbing is when the departments main lecturer in networking
sends the technician up to the post grads and honours students offices
asking
us to help him ftp a file between his laptop and desktop (windows boxen),
wondering how to diagnose a "connection refused" message

Granted, one would have to take ones nose out of dusty old OSI model
textbooks, and get some experience in the real world first, but still...

Looking back on uni now, it seems like a big kindy.. No wonder they are
leaking lecturers faster than a windows box leaks memory.

--
Kurt Häusler

GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net

RE: CLUG Meeting on the 6th December

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Does anyone have a dictaphone or notetaker? we could 
record and then sample and then mp3 it and post it to
the clug site :-)

JeremyB.

-Original Message-
From: Chris Hellyar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2001 1:47 p.m.
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: CLUG Meeting on the 6th December


Errr

I have some notes I've written to do the presentation, but they'd not be
much use as instructions, so to speak..

Any volunteers to transcribe?

I will endeavour to make up some more readable notes, and make them
available on my web site or something similar.

Cheers,  Chris Hellyar.

Selwyn District Council
Phones: X 831 (03)324 5831 (021) 350 603




-Original Message-
From: Steven Sykes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2001 13:25
To: Chris Hellyar
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: CLUG Meeting on the 6th December


Will those who aren't able to be there be able get hold of some sort of
notes?

Cheers,

Steven

##
The  contents  of  this  e-mail  message  may   be  privileged  and/or
confidential. If you are not the  intended recipient please delete the
message and notify the sender. 

Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author, and do
not necessarily represent the official  position of the Selwyn District 
Council
##

RE: NFS Lockup problems

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Hi Vik,

what brand network cards is in the machine that locks up?

what kernel are you running on the box?

Had lockup issues with nfs and certain network cards on
older kernels, by old I mean 2.2.16 kinda old, in the end
I tried about three different cards and still had the same
problems so I upgraded to whatever version of 2.4 was out
at the time and the problem went away, this was our main
nfs box at work so it was kinda important to keep running :-)

Cheers,

JeremyB.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2001 7:04 a.m.
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: NFS Lockup problems


I've recently started havign problems with NFS. The setup is this:

The server has several NFS shares on it.

The workstation connects to a couple of these.

But the workstation has areas the server needs to access. These are
shared by NFS.

The server connects to one of these.

When the workstation is told to shutdown, the server locks up.

The workstation is then unable to complete shutdown as it is unable to
disconnect the NFS connection to the server.

The website and mail server are unavailable for 12 hours until I notice.

Vik bangs head on wall.

Is there a solution to this problem, other than drinking much beer?

Vik :v)
-- 
/"\  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  /"\
\ /   ASCII Ribbon Campaign  One of The Olliver Family  \ /
 X   - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail http://olliver.family.gen.nzX
/ \  - NO MSWord docs in e-mail  Public PGP key available there / \

RE: Unix Santa

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Title: Unix Santa



That'd 
be this one then ;-)
 

better !pout !crybetter 
watchoutlpr whysanta claus town 
cat /etc/passwd >listncheck 
listncheck listcat list | grep naughty >nogiftlistcat list | grep 
nice >giftlistsanta claus  town 
who | grep sleepingwho | grep 
awakewho | grep bad || goodfor (goodness sake) {be good} 

 
jeremyb.
http://www.jeremyb.net
-Original Message-From: 
Yuri DeGroot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, 27 
December 2001 9:55 a.m.To: 'nzlug'; 'dunlug'; 
'clug'Subject: Unix Santa

  I'm surprised that no-one has posted the Santa 
  shell script, 
  y'know, the one that starts with 
  better !pout; better !cry better watchout; lpr why santaclaus >town  
  I can't remember how the rest of it goes. 
  Does anyone have a copy of it? I've always found 
  it amusing. 
  I'm the only member of my team who hasn't taken 
  leave over ChristMas and I'm bored, bored, bored staring at these dumb work 
  orders that need to be reviewed by us quality gurus (I'm the only guru without 
  the sense to bugger off for ChristMas)
  If my superiors are subscribed to this list - hey 
  I'm on a break okay! sheesh! I'll get back to work now. 
  Yuri de Groot 
  Quality Improvement 
  Specialist on energy 
  Limited (DDI 03-378 3017 (extn 3017 *[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Men are from Earth. 
  Women are from Earth. Deal with it. 
   

RE: vgalib wordprocessor

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Have you searched on freshmeat.net?

JeremyB.

http://www.jeremyb.net

-Original Message-
From: Yuri DeGroot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 28 December 2001 12:27 p.m.
To: 'clug'; 'nzlug'; 'dunlug'
Subject: vgalib wordprocessor


I've drawn a blank on google.
Anyone know of a wysiwyg wordprocessor based on vgalib rather than X11?

Cheers
Yuri



This email together with any attachments may contain privileged and
confidential information.
If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and delete
the message.
Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and will not
necessarily reflect the views of NGC.

RE: More progress

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

simply add username=user,password=pass, before the noauto, make sure you
have the comma after the pass and before the noauto, no spaces :-)

JeremyB.


>  -Original Message-
> From: Fisher Family [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Monday, 14 January 2002 6:35 p.m.
> To:   Linux Users Group
> Subject:  More progress
> 
> After some replies, more experimenting and reading, I added the lines
> below to the /etc/fstab file which seems to work to make icons on my
> desktop which I can mount the shared windows drives with.
> 
> //Sydog/C/winshare/Sydog_C   smbfs   noauto,_netdev,user 0
> 0
> //Sydog/D/winshare/Sydog_D   smbfs   noauto,_netdev,user 0
> 0
> //X/C   /winshare/X_C   smbfs
> noauto,_netdev,user 0 0
> 
> Next Question:
> 
> What do I change to allow the above to work as a user rather than root? I
> also get prompted for root password when I try Internet dialling as a
> user.
> 
> Is it as simple as adding the user into more groups and if so which
> groups?
> 
> Fisher Family
> Christchurch
> http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/fisher.family
> 
>-Original Message-
>   From:   Fisher Family [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>   Sent:   Monday, 14 January 2002 8:00 a.m.
>   To: Linux Users Group
>   Subject:Much progress
> 
>   Remember me? As a new Linux user, I asked the group in
> December for some help to get past some initial hurdles.
> 
>   After surfing/reading, advice from some of you and even one
> person coming to my home I now have Internet connection sharing working
> and sharing between Linux, Win98, Win 200 and WinXP. Thanks to all of you
> who offered advice.
> 
>   Next Question:
> 
>   I used the following procedure to "mount a windows share
> 
>   Create directory e.g /share
> 
>   To mounttype
>   smbmount //winsys/winshare some-mount-point
> 
>   Example for me (X = Win PC, C = share name)
>   smbmount //X/C /share
> 
>   To unmount (my example)
>   smbumount -t smbfs /share
> 
>   Is there a way this can be done automatically (even if the
> Windows PC is off)?
> 
>   Robert
> 
>   Fisher Family
>   Christchurch
>   http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/fisher.family
> 

<>

Re: IPCop

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Thats the one which is a fork of the smoothwall project isn't it? been running 
smoothwall for ages and it rocks, I looked at IPCop but it's interface was so fugly I 
decided to stick with smoothwall :-)

Be interesting to hear your experiences with it.

JeremyB.
 
> From: Steve Dunford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/02/22 Fri AM 08:52:15 GMT+12:00
> To: "Linux Users Group (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: IPCop
> 
> Has anyone got any real-world experience with IPCop? I've set it up here
> as a dial-on-demand router / firewall and its working well, and it was a
> piece of doddle to install and configure.
> My next step is to trial it as an ethernet router but I'd like to know
> just how good this product is before spending too much time on it. Has
> anyone seen any reports / comparisons / tests on it? 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve Dunford
> Systems Engineer
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Catspaw New Zealand Limited
> Business Computing & Network Integration
> 
> 
> Tel + 64 3 377 3874  
> Fax + 64 3 377 6954
> Cell 021 637 600
> 
> CAUTION: This message and accompanying data may contain 
> information that is confidential and subject to legal privilege. If 
> you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any use 
> dissemination distribution or copying of this message or data is 
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, 
> please notify Catspaw New Zealand Limited immediately and erase 
> all copies of the message and attachments. Thank you. 
> Please note that this email may not reflect the
> position of the Company.
> ___
> 
> *** I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it ***
> 
> 
> 

Re: can I subscribe an email address post only?

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

The final answer was unfortunately no, so I just subscribed with two addresses :-(.

jeremyb

http://www.jeremyb.net
 
> From: Bjorn Nilsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/02/26 Tue AM 11:17:02 GMT+12:00
> To: "CLUG Mailing List (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: can I subscribe an email address post only?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I remember discussion previously about this but I can not remember what was
> resolved. Can I subscribe an email address to this list which is post only?
> 
> cheers,
> Bjorn
> 
> 

Linuxcare Bootable Toolkit

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I've just downloaded and had a bit of a play with the
Linuxcare bootable toolkit, extremely cool mini distro
which has X, networking & pcmcia support and Mozilla/Lynx
browsers, along with some other cute tools. 

The iso can be burned to those small 3" cd's for 
convenience due to it's extremely small size (<50Mb) 
and also includes a bootdisk if your machine doesn't 
support bootable cd's.

Looks like it could be useful for windoze based systems
too as it is able to mount fat16/32 partitions and I assume
other file systems (does not appear to do ntfs).

Check out LBT here:

http://lbt.linuxcare.com/index.epl

jeremyb

http://www.jeremyb.net

Re: Re: Linuxcare Bootable Toolkit

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Heaps, I think they even link to a bunch of them from
their website :-)

JeremyB.

http://www.jeremyb.net
 
> From: Huan Yee Chew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/02/27 Wed PM 10:59:53 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Linuxcare Bootable Toolkit
> 
> This is very handy.  Is there any other flavours that are in similar size? 
> I.e. below 180MB or so.  It's rather handy to be able to carry around those 
> smaller CDs.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Huan
> 
> At 14:35 26.02.2002 +1200, you wrote:
> >I've just downloaded and had a bit of a play with the
> >Linuxcare bootable toolkit, extremely cool mini distro
> >which has X, networking & pcmcia support and Mozilla/Lynx
> >browsers, along with some other cute tools.
> >
> >The iso can be burned to those small 3" cd's for
> >convenience due to it's extremely small size (<50Mb)
> >and also includes a bootdisk if your machine doesn't
> >support bootable cd's.
> >
> >Looks like it could be useful for windoze based systems
> >too as it is able to mount fat16/32 partitions and I assume
> >other file systems (does not appear to do ntfs).
> >
> >Check out LBT here:
> >
> >http://lbt.linuxcare.com/index.epl
> >
> >jeremyb
> >
> >http://www.jeremyb.net
> 
> 
> -- 
> The industrial way of life leads to the industrial way of death. From Shiloh
> to Dachau, from Antietam to Stalingrad, from Hiroshima to Vietnam and
> Afghanistan, the great specialty of industry and technology has been the mass
> production of human corpses.
>   -- Edward Abbey
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Re: Linuxcare Bootable Toolkit

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

The rotten old Warehouse has 4 packs of Transonic 3" cd's for like $10, worth taking a 
gamble on, haven't seen any other shops stocking them or the business card ones.

JeremyB.

http://www.jeremyb.net
 
> From: Huan Yee Chew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/02/28 Thu AM 12:12:29 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Linuxcare Bootable Toolkit
> 
> By the way, does anyone know where to purchase these business card size cdr?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Huan
> 
> At 14:35 26.02.2002 +1200, you wrote:
> >I've just downloaded and had a bit of a play with the
> >Linuxcare bootable toolkit, extremely cool mini distro
> >which has X, networking & pcmcia support and Mozilla/Lynx
> >browsers, along with some other cute tools.
> >
> >The iso can be burned to those small 3" cd's for
> >convenience due to it's extremely small size (<50Mb)
> >and also includes a bootdisk if your machine doesn't
> >support bootable cd's.
> >
> >Looks like it could be useful for windoze based systems
> >too as it is able to mount fat16/32 partitions and I assume
> >other file systems (does not appear to do ntfs).
> >
> >Check out LBT here:
> >
> >http://lbt.linuxcare.com/index.epl
> >
> >jeremyb
> >
> >http://www.jeremyb.net
> 
> 
> -- 
> Genius is talent provided with ideals.
>   -- William Somerset Maugham
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Re: Linuxcare Bootable Toolkit

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Business card cd's are cool, but I don't see the point when the 3" cd's are roughly 
the same size, but round and can take 185Mb or so on them, unless of course you're 
getting the nice screen printed with your details etc on ones from the states...?

JeremyB.

http://www.jeremyb.net
 
> From: "Ryurick M. Hristev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/02/28 Thu PM 03:23:18 GMT+12:00
> To: Canterbury Linux LUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Linuxcare Bootable Toolkit
> 
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Huan Yee Chew wrote:
> 
> > Hmmguess I was lucky then.  Manage to get LBT written on mine and it 
> > works so far on machine that I tried.  Though, now I'm on the same 
> > bandwagon, how do we stuff 47MB of image onto a 35MB CD?
> 
> After some search: Mystery solved! :-)
> 
> It seems that there are 2 sizes: 30(35 ?) and 50 Mb.
> I assume the 50 Mb would work (at least) in most (not ancient) CD readers.
> 
> Now if I can find a supplier 
> 
> Cheers,
> -- 
> Ryurick M. Hristev mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Computer Systems Manager
> University of Canterbury, Physics & Astronomy Dept., New Zealand
> 
> 

Re: TV cards/capture cards & linux & nvidia

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I've got one of those TView cards, all the cheap cards on the market use the brooktree 
(BT) chipset, there are linux drivers, but I don't think anyone is actively 
maintaining them any more, I've had good and bad experience with video capture under 
windows, it used to work fine but for some odd reason started to get flakey and drop 
frames all the time :-(... 

I'd seriously consider the nvidia cards if I wanted to get another capture card.

JeremyB.

> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/01 Fri AM 09:05:57 GMT+12:00
> To: nzlug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
>   CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: TV cards/capture cards & linux & nvidia
> 
> Looking to buy a video capture card, maybe with a tv tuner (but as I get
> all my tv thru sky digi it seems a little pointless to get the latter).
> 
> Been looking at the DSE site. The options appear to be:
> 
> DSE PCI card part xh6594 $97.00. 
> 
> according to the instructions this is an avermedia ezcapture card which
> seems to be supported under linux. It is a bt848 or bt 878 chip.
> 
> TView TV Tuner Capture Card part XH6591$107.
> 
> Not sure if this is supported under linux? It has a tuner as well as
> capture. 
> 
> From there onwards they get more expensive. What worries me a little is
> this warning on _all_ the dse advertised cards:
> 
> "Please Note: nVidia chipset based video cards such as GeForce 2, GeForce 3 
> and TNT do not support overlay mode which is used extensively by this
> card . As a result of this issue, Dick Smith Electronics do not
> recommend using this card with an nVidia chipset based video card."
> 
> I saw a thread on nz.comp recently suggesting that this was crap.
> 
> So really i am looking fo recommendations & war stories about any of
> these cards with nvidia and/or linux. As it'll go in a dual booter, I
> guess winblows stories will be relevant too (to me anyway :-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/3c7e93a607901b44273fc0a87f990722/Product/View/XH6594
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Solicitor, PO Box 25-275,
> Christchurch, NZ
> ph +64-3-3798966
> fax +64-3-3798853
> http://www.rout.co.nz
> 
> 

Re: Vortex Drivers

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Ugh, been there done that, bought the t-shirt, in the
end I gave up, it just wouldn't work, bought a proper
soundblaster and haven't had hassles since :-)

jeremyb.

http://www.jeremyb.net
 
> From: Neal Sales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/02 Sat PM 03:53:00 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Vortex Drivers
> 
> Hi folks
> Thanks for the help on unpacking compressed files it worked. However now 
> that I have unpacked  it I am unable to get the drivers for my Vortex 
> sound card to install. The instructions are as follows:
> 
> 1. Unpack the distribution:
> tar xvzf aureal*.tar.gz
> 
> 2. Change to the driver directory and become root:
> cd aureal*
> su
> 3. Edit the Makefile to suit your system (SMP, CPU type, etc)
> 4. Type the following install commands:
> If you have an 8830-based (Vortex 2) card:
> make install
> If you have an 8820-based (Vortex 1) card:
> make install20
> If you have an 8810-based (Vortex Advantage) card:
> make install10
> There is no need to reboot.
> 
> Now, when I get to the root and type $make install20 I'm told "command 
> not found install20" AAAGGGHH
> What do I do now???
> 
> Anybody got one of these cards? I'm running an AMD 6-350 if it makes any 
> difference
> Cheers
> neals
> 
> 
> 

Re: Re: Vortex Drivers

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Ooops re-reading your email properly in other replies I missed your problem entirely, 
but... even after compiling the modules and so forth and messing around for ages I 
couldn't get it working properly... you've taken on quite a bit for a new guy ;-) 
compiling a driver that has no manufacturer support and was hacked together!! 

J.
 
> From: Jeremy Bertenshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/04 Mon AM 07:07:00 GMT+12:00
> To: Neal Sales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Vortex Drivers
> 
> Ugh, been there done that, bought the t-shirt, in the
> end I gave up, it just wouldn't work, bought a proper
> soundblaster and haven't had hassles since :-)
> 
> jeremyb.
> 
> http://www.jeremyb.net
>  
> > From: Neal Sales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2002/03/02 Sat PM 03:53:00 GMT+12:00
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Vortex Drivers
> > 
> > Hi folks
> > Thanks for the help on unpacking compressed files it worked. However now 
> > that I have unpacked  it I am unable to get the drivers for my Vortex 
> > sound card to install. The instructions are as follows:
> > 
> > 1. Unpack the distribution:
> > tar xvzf aureal*.tar.gz
> > 
> > 2. Change to the driver directory and become root:
> > cd aureal*
> > su
> > 3. Edit the Makefile to suit your system (SMP, CPU type, etc)
> > 4. Type the following install commands:
> > If you have an 8830-based (Vortex 2) card:
> > make install
> > If you have an 8820-based (Vortex 1) card:
> > make install20
> > If you have an 8810-based (Vortex Advantage) card:
> > make install10
> > There is no need to reboot.
> > 
> > Now, when I get to the root and type $make install20 I'm told "command 
> > not found install20" AAAGGGHH
> > What do I do now???
> > 
> > Anybody got one of these cards? I'm running an AMD 6-350 if it makes any 
> > difference
> > Cheers
> > neals
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Mail Virus Scanners

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Best virus protection practice is to have it in both places, via an email server is 
not the only way viruses get in, people using webmail clients to hotmail etc.. are a 
big problem. 

Best bet is to go with a good desktop package such as Nortons which can scan incoming 
email (unless your email app is unsupported like Groupwise) as well as protect you 
from any files you try to open whether it be from a website or floppy disk etc.. 

JeremyB.

http://www.jeremyb.net
 
> From: Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/10 Sun PM 10:04:45 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Mail Virus Scanners
> 
> I am running postfix here and now that i have got it to where i want it..
> 
> I am now wanted to do virus scan of all incoming mail for the users i have
> on the mail server...
> 
> what would you recommend is the best to use??
> 
> Or should I just forget about it and tell them to get a virus scanner for
> they system??
> 
> Many Thanks,
> Johnno
> 
> 
> 

Re: Re: Mail Virus Scanners

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Wow! Is there some new advancement in linux that makes it impervious to viruses?
 
> From: Christopher Sawtell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/10 Sun PM 10:23:21 GMT+12:00
> To: Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Mail Virus Scanners
> 
> Belt & braces is a good idea, but tell them that if they > really want to get rid of 
>viruses they need to get rid of 
> Microsoft.
 

Re: Re: Mail Virus Scanners

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

True, at this point in time. However as it's usage on the desktop increases, so will 
the number of viruses being targetted at it.

Theres no protection from user stupidity and the like, the old 'i got an email of a 
cool thing that draws fireworks on my screen and now my computer won't boot'... 

jeremyb

http://www.jeremyb.net 
 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 2002/03/11 Mon AM 08:56:34 GMT+12:00
> To: Jeremy Bertenshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Mail Virus Scanners
> 
> 
> I think that the point being made here is the fact that Linux is 
> inherently far more virus proof than Windows, and this point needs to be 
> stressed, especially when it is being considered in enterprise 
> deployment situations.
> 
> 
> Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> 
> >Wow! Is there some new advancement in linux that makes it impervious to viruses?
> > 
> >
> >>From: Christopher Sawtell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>Date: 2002/03/10 Sun PM 10:23:21 GMT+12:00
> >>To: Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Subject: Re: Mail Virus Scanners
> >>
> >>Belt & braces is a good idea, but tell them that if they > really want to get rid 
>of viruses they need to get rid of 
> >>Microsoft.
> >>
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 





I think that the point being made here is the fact that Linux is inherently
far more virus proof than Windows, and this point needs to be stressed, especially
when it is being considered in enterprise deployment situations.


Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:

  Wow! Is there some new advancement in linux that makes it impervious to viruses? 
  
From: Christopher Sawtell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: 2002/03/10 Sun PM 10:23:21 GMT+12:00To: Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: Mail Virus ScannersBelt & braces is a good idea, but tell them that if they > really want to get rid of viruses they need to get rid of Microsoft.

 

Re: Re: Mail Virus Scanners

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Okay, so maybe I should've said... wow! are there new advancements in other operating 
systems that make them impervious to viruses?

Granted Outlook opens up a whole bunch of issues, but _My_ point was that theres no 
point knocking micro$oft when you can be in the same boat no matter what OS you're 
using, it's the popularity that makes it more likely to be hit.

jeremyb

http://www.jeremyb.net

> From: Christopher Sawtell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/11 Mon AM 09:21:57 GMT+12:00
> To: Jeremy Bertenshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
>   Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Re: Mail Virus Scanners
> 
> On Monday 11 March 2002 09:41 am, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> > Wow! Is there some new advancement in linux that makes it impervious to
> > viruses?
> 
> No. As distrubuted by the major vendors Linux is not particularly secure,
> but getting rid of Microsoft will get rid of all the Outlook problems and 
> other viruses which depend on there being no effective permission structure 
> in the file system. It's just that in any mono-culture the whole population 
> is prone to infection.
> 
> Next time, read my posts carefully and note that I never mentioned Linux, and 
> remember that that there are several operating systems which are "not 
> Microsoft" and are perfectly capable of doing all the things that most people 
> need to do. 
> 
> > > From: Christopher Sawtell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: 2002/03/10 Sun PM 10:23:21 GMT+12:00
> > > To: Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: Mail Virus Scanners
> > >
> > > Belt & braces is a good idea, but tell them that if they really want to
> > > get rid of viruses they need to get rid of Microsoft.
> 

Re: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

create a secure or bug-free Windows. 
> It makes them (with "upgrades"), their "partners", OEMs, and legions of
> support technicians the world over employed, earning $billions for
> fixing the same, known problems, time and time again.  They drop those
> crumbs to keep the scavengers in their IT "ecosystem" well fed and eager
> to shout the praises of their master.
> 
> 4.  Goodwill:  when a clever (or even not-so-clever) programmer wants to
> make his/her mark in the Linux world, there are many creative, positive
> ways in which s/he can make a splash be contributing to an open project
> - everyone knows that, given a choice, it feels much better to build
> something than it does to destroy something.  Linux promotes an ethos of
> goodwill due to its openness and inclusiveness. It would be uncool in
> just about anybody's book do something destructive to anything that is
> the result of so many people's generosity. 
> 
> With Windows, no such good will exists, and the only way to have an
> impact is by being destructive.  In my opinion, the ethos MS projects
> brings out frustration and destructiveness in people.
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Mon, 2002-03-11 at 11:51, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> > Okay, so maybe I should've said... wow! are there new advancements in other 
>operating systems that make them impervious to viruses?
> > 
> > Granted Outlook opens up a whole bunch of issues, but _My_ point was that theres 
>no point knocking micro$oft when you can be in the same boat no matter what OS you're 
>using, it's the popularity that makes it more likely to be hit.
> > 
> > jeremyb
> > 
> > http://www.jeremyb.net
> > 
> > > From: Christopher Sawtell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: 2002/03/11 Mon AM 09:21:57 GMT+12:00
> > > To: Jeremy Bertenshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
> > >   Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Mail Virus Scanners
> > > 
> > > On Monday 11 March 2002 09:41 am, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> > > > Wow! Is there some new advancement in linux that makes it impervious to
> > > > viruses?
> > > 
> > > No. As distrubuted by the major vendors Linux is not particularly secure,
> > > but getting rid of Microsoft will get rid of all the Outlook problems and 
> > > other viruses which depend on there being no effective permission structure 
> > > in the file system. It's just that in any mono-culture the whole population 
> > > is prone to infection.
> > > 
> > > Next time, read my posts carefully and note that I never mentioned Linux, and 
> > > remember that that there are several operating systems which are "not 
> > > Microsoft" and are perfectly capable of doing all the things that most people 
> > > need to do. 
> > > 
> > > > > From: Christopher Sawtell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Date: 2002/03/10 Sun PM 10:23:21 GMT+12:00
> > > > > To: Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Subject: Re: Mail Virus Scanners
> > > > >
> > > > > Belt & braces is a good idea, but tell them that if they really want to
> > > > > get rid of viruses they need to get rid of Microsoft.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> -- 
> ** David Lane, Director - Egressive Limited * [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
> ** PO Box 24162, Christchurch, NZ * www.egressive.com * 025 229 8147 ** 
> ** Open Source: software for the discerning palate * www.openz.org **
> 
> 

Re: Re: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

NTFS permissions work fine, you simply tick the 'Replace permissions on all 
subdirectories' box when you update permissions, however IMHO you shouldn't have to.

You're thinking far too conventionally, there are ways other than writing to 
/dev/blarg to access a device.

Cool so we can run 16bit dos apps in linux, how does that detract from my comment 
about microsoft's software being bloated and more likely to be insecure by having to 
support that? 

Hmmm, aiming higher than the standard for desktop OS, so it needs to do all the crummy 
things windows does now and more?

One of the many things windows does that linux doesn't is have decent hardware 
support, sure thats arguably a vendor issue, but it's something that is a BIG issue... 
I gave up on linux on the desktop because it took many things away from what I had in 
windows, inc. support for my sound card, capture card, software I use, gaming... 

Plus I think the biggest thing that windows does that linux doesn't is being like 
windows, the majority of desktop users are totally afraid of change, theres nowhere 
that people can do night classes in X or similar, windows prevalance is a big thing.

jeremyb

http://www.jeremyb.net

 
> From: Rex Johnston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed AM 09:37:23 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 09:03, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> 
> > you've made some valid points, however they're not all entirely correct
> > (It's not entirely prudent to comment on something you're not using
> 
> Yes, i deleted my rant as i'm not familiar with NT/XP.
> 
> > and up with the state of play on.), windows NT,2K etc.. have a proper
> > user/group based security model and with NTFS it does give a
> > permissions structure that prevents a number of problems you've
> > discussed, alho' the unix permissions structure is by far a better
> 
> Doesn't work very well then, does it ?
> 
> > design (NT has no permissions inheritance from higher level
> > directories...) it won't stop a number of the virus attacks like boot
> > sector deleters and the like.
> 
> % ls -l /dev/hda
> brw-rw1 root disk   3,   0 Feb 15 16:20 /dev/hda
> 
> so, unless they've added themselves to the 'disk' group, i'm afraid that
> any errant process CANNOT write to the boot sector of any disk.
>  
> 
> > Microsoft doesn't have a community like the linux one granted, it's more
> >  like the real world, it's incredibly diverse unlike the linux
> > community and therein lies a lot of it's issues, it has to cater to so
> > many different people wanting to run everything from old dos apps to
> > 16bit windows apps to the latest 32bit stuff, more bloat more chances
> > of holes etc, but it's because the people demand that, if linux is to
> 
> have you heard of dosemu ?  Apart from the "Phar Lap err 35" bollocks,
> it is compatable with 16 bit DOS code.
> 
> > compete it has to give the people what they want... this is one of the
> > reasons I'm anti linux on the desktop because if it wants to truly
> > compete it's going to have to do what windows does, unfortunately ms
> 
> Why windoze ?  Shouldn't it be aiming a little higher than that ?
> Anyway, what is it that windoze does, that linux doesn't ?
> 
> > set the standard for what people expect on the desktop, I think the
> 
> Yes, pity about that.
> 
> Rex
> 
> 
> 

Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

> From: Rex Johnston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed AM 09:37:58 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 10:07, Steve Brorens wrote:
> 
> > BTW I'd go so far as to say that the Windows (NT/W2K/XP/.NET) NTFS permission
> > structure is overall far superior to Linux , BUT the
> 
> How exactly ?
> 
> > problem is not generally the architecture; instead it's the attidude
> > of *both* the vendor and the user-base to security. I'm very new to
> > Linux, but it seems clear that:
> > 
> >  - a "default install" of Linux from most distros is not particularly secure
> 
> Compared to what ?

Windows is the most obvious answer.
 
> Anyway, don't generalise, be specific, email the problem to the person
> responsible (usually easily found), and guess what ?  They'll fix it.
> 
> >  - many users of desktop Linux will spend a significant amount of time logged in 
>as root
> 
> I hope not.  In fact i have friends whose machines i have not even given
> them the root password to.  They just use it.

Try being a sysadmin for any number of linux servers, you very rarely are anything but 
root, likewise in a windows environment you are usually always administrator.
 
> > If Linux was ever to take off in the desktop space it would become pretty 
>monocultural as well.
> 
> I doubt it.

It simply would have to be to compete, even the KDE/Gnome battle is a barrier, people 
need consistency of user interface.

> > Users are just not familier with the notion of having to logoff, back in as 
> > Supervisor/Administrator/Root, install software, logout and back in.
> 
> Um, yes you are new to linux.  Try a 'man su', then 'man sudo' in a
> shell.  Most package admin utilities will pop up a window asking for the
> root password when you launch them.
> 
> > Simple and obvious to you and me, but 90% of experienced computer
> > users have never faced this.
> 
> Therein lies the problem.  It's Better Manually (tm).

Most users demand automation.

jeremyb.

Re: Re: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

in NT/2K/etc.. however due to 
limitations in what non admin users can do it sucks... ;-).
 
> To wit, Apache (typically run by either user nobody or more recently on
> some distros, user apache).  I still get Nimda and CodeRed probes (which
> are managed by using the Apache configuration hack sent to this list a
> while back - thanks for that) - the only reason they allow someone to
> OWN a Windows NT/2000 box is because Microsoft didn't adhere to prudent
> multi-user design conventions (which are, by the way, 20+ years old in
> the UNIX world).  I should also point out that the vast majority of
> Windows users don't run NT/2000 and therefore don't benefit from what
> little user isolation those systems provide.

Yep, but XP is making inroads into the desktop market and improving this.
 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave  
> 
> On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 09:03, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> > Hi David,
> > 
> > you've made some valid points, however they're not all entirely correct (It's not 
>entirely prudent to comment on something you're not using and up with the state of 
>play on.), windows NT,2K etc.. have a proper user/group based security model and with 
>NTFS it does give a permissions structure that prevents a number of problems you've 
>discussed, alho' the unix permissions structure is by far a better design (NT has no 
>permissions inheritance from higher level directories...) it won't stop a number of 
>the virus attacks like boot sector deleters and the like.
> > 
> > In relation to your point about goodwill and the like, sure the current crop of 
>programmers will keep making nice stuff, but like in any system theres always a bad 
>element that will migrate as the system evolves and becomes larger, people who write 
>viruses for windows will write viruses for linux if they start using linux, nothing 
>about the hugs and kisses world of open source will change that.
> > 
> > Microsoft doesn't turn people bad, people will be do bad things anyway, you can't 
>blame them for everything...
> > 
> > Microsoft doesn't have a community like the linux one granted, it's more like the 
>real world, it's incredibly diverse unlike the linux community and therein lies a lot 
>of it's issues, it has to cater to so many different people wanting to run everything 
>from old dos apps to 16bit windows apps to the latest 32bit stuff, more bloat more 
>chances of holes etc, but it's because the people demand that, if linux is to compete 
>it has to give the people what they want... this is one of the reasons I'm anti linux 
>on the desktop because if it wants to truly compete it's going to have to do what 
>windows does, unfortunately ms set the standard for what people expect on the 
>desktop, I think the whole linux on desktop movement is negative for the future of 
>linux (but thats a rant for another time :-). 
> > 
> > jeremyb
> > 
> > http://www.jeremyb.net
> > 
> 
> -- 
> ** David Lane, Director - Egressive Limited * [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
> ** PO Box 24162, Christchurch, NZ * www.egressive.com * 025 229 8147 ** 
> ** Open Source: software for the discerning palate * www.openz.org **
> 
> 

Re: Re: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Unfortunately the world is probably about 95% idiots by your definition :-).

Why do you need to go through the kernel to write to a device? 

jeremyb.

> From: Rex Johnston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed AM 10:02:30 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Re: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 10:43, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> 
> > You're thinking far too conventionally, there are ways other than writing to 
>/dev/blarg
> > to access a device.
> 
> You still have to go through the kernel.
>  
> > Hmmm, aiming higher than the standard for desktop OS, so it needs to do all the 
>crummy> things windows does now and more?
> 
> Did i say that ?
> 
> Personally, i find the windoze desktop extremely clunky.  I have no idea
> why anyone would want to emulate it.
>  
> > One of the many things windows does that linux doesn't is have decent hardware 
>support,
> > sure thats arguably a vendor issue, but it's something that is a BIG
> > issue... I gave up on linux on the desktop because it took many things
> > away from what I had in windows, inc. support for my sound card,
> > capture card, software I use, gaming...
> 
> I have a TV card, SB live, GeForce2 with twin view, HP cd writer, DVD
> rom drive (hacked for RPC0), 60 GB of disk, network card, HP A3 printer.
> I have no problems running linux on it and supporting all the hardware.
> 
> Yep, games kinda suck, though quake rocks along nicely.
> 
> > Plus I think the biggest thing that windows does that linux doesn't
> > is being like windows, the majority of desktop users are totally
> 
> !
> 
> > afraid of change, theres nowhere that people can do night classes in X
> > or similar, windows prevalance is a big thing.
> 
> People just need exposure.  If you make a system so simple that even an
> idiot can use it, guess what, only idiots will.
> 
> Rex
> 
> 
> 

Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

So you're an admin for a system which isn't evolving or going thru change, now imagine 
that you had a large evolving userbase with a large number of requests for new apps / 
mods...
 
> From: Rex Johnston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed AM 10:07:07 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 10:56, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> 
> > Try being a sysadmin for any number of linux servers, you 
> > very rarely are anything but root, likewise in a windows environment
> > you are usually always administrator.
> 
> I *am* the sysadmin for a number of servers.  I very rarely need to be
> logged in *at all*.
> 
> ~ % uptime
>  11:05am  up 404 days, 18:52,  1 user,  load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01
> 
> Rex
> 
> 
> 

Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

While I remember, I was at a McAfee Security seminar the other day and they mentioned 
the Winux virus, basically a proof of concept that infects both Linux & Windows, 
teehee, if the virus writers don't try linux directly they can always get at it thanks 
to Microsoft and Wine :-)

http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99060.htm

http://antivirus.about.com/library/weekly/aa032801a.htm

jeremyb.

http://www.jeremyb.net

Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Agreed and thats why the NSA created their secure linux distro, to implement ACL's, an 
important function missing from current linux distro's security.

> From: Steve Brorens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed AM 10:41:26 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> Far more granular for one, but the most obvious from an admin perspective is that it 
>easily allows me to setup this sort of thing:
> 
>   d:\data\payroll
>   Group/Managers has ReadOnly access
>   Group/Payclerks has Change access
>   (and TheGreatUnwashed have absolutly no access)
> 
> ... basically I can add an ACL entry for each group that needs some sort of access, 
>and define this access level.
> 
> > >  - a "default install" of Linux from most distros is not 
> > particularly secure
> > 
> > Compared to what ?
> 
> Compared to what everyone on this list would consider adequate. Surely the existence 
>of Bastille and the near universal advice to 'harden' your system asap after 
>installation are proof enough. I'll grant that MS do an even worse job, but that's 
>not the point.
> 
> > I hope not.  In fact i have friends whose machines i have not 
> > even given them the root password to.  They just use it.
> 
> If you think about it this probably proves several of my points...
> 
>  - steve
> 
> 
> =
> http://www.commarc.co.nz
> 
> (This e-mail has been scanned by MailMarshal)
> 

Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Cool can apt-get compile php/sybase support into apache rather than as a module?  I 
could think up a million other reasons, but you get the idea.

jeremyb
 
> From: Rex Johnston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed AM 10:48:12 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like >windows/Outlook
>  
> > now imagine that you had a large evolving userbase with a large number
> 
> webmin/apt-get
> 
> Rex
> 
> 
> 

Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Theres no need to get personal Drew, usually thats left for situations when you don't 
have anything as a useful counter to someones aregument...

I think you have missed the whole point of the discussion.

jeremyb.
 
> From: Drew Whittle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed PM 12:16:55 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 13:03, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> > Cool can apt-get compile php/sybase support into apache rather than as a module?  
>I could think up a million other reasons, but you get the idea.
> 
> Are you just naturally a moron or what?
> 
> Sure there are issues with Linux and the general population, no one
> disputes that (generally caused by Microsoft contamination), the point
> is that 90% of the population could easily use Linux for everyday use
> and do it well, and securely.
> 
> Now I could sit here and pull all your arguments to pieces and give
> stupid out of the norm examples that show that you are wrong, but there
> is little point.
> 
> :D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Oh dear, the thing I find most concerning about the linux community is it's 
closed-mindedness to other technologies, I don't believe microsoft is better, I don't 
believe linux is better, all are good tools for different tasks, don't knock the 
products because of who the vendor is.

However so as not to digress any further... my point has always been that linux is in 
no way safe from the virus threat which seems to have been sculpted by the 
anti-microsoft crowd into a linux is better neener neener account, surely theres 
nothing wrong with me invoking my sporting nature and playing along with them?

I mean really, it's all so trivial why take it so personally? now do we have any 
christians I can try and convince that they're wrong >:-)

jeremyb.

> From: Drew Whittle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed PM 12:43:58 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 13:31, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> > Theres no need to get personal Drew, usually thats left for situations when you 
>don't have anything as a useful counter to someones aregument...
> 
> I have little tolerance for people I consider to be fools and if I wish
> to call someone a moron I will.
> 
> If you can not see how stupid you are being then feel free to continue
> this discussion.
> 
> > 
> > I think you have missed the whole point of the discussion.
> > 
> 
> The discussion that started out with talking about how Linux didn't have
> Microsoft/OUTLOOK style virus problems and degenerated into someone
> trying to say that windows was better no matter what anyone else said,
> even going so far as to pull silly examples out of the air. (eg the
> apt-get compile php/sybase, the cross platform virus that _needs_
> windows to get started on a linux machine etc etc etc)
> 
> :D
> 
> 

OT: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

The worse thing about arguing with Christians is that they're always s right (oh 
the irony), but don't spend much if any time actually questioning their beliefs, one 
of the downsides of most belief based systems. 

Quite good discussions can come from challenging beliefs imho.

jeremyb
 
> From: Theuns Verwoerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed PM 01:10:04 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> Greetings  
> > However so as not to digress any further... my point has always been that
> > linux is in no way safe from the virus threat which seems to have been
> > sculpted by the anti-microsoft crowd into a linux is better neener neener
> > account, surely theres nothing wrong with me invoking my sporting nature
> > and playing along with them?
> 
> My take on this lot:  Melissa, Nimda, Code Red, sadmin (IIRC) worms, 
> versus  Lion, Ramen.  Major difference from my point of view: Linux learns 
> faster. 
> 
> (So what's the difference between a network worm and a virus?)  
> 
> > I mean really, it's all so trivial why take it so personally? now do we
> > have any christians I can try and convince that they're wrong >:-)
> 
> By all means give it a shot; it's always entertaining to see if the 
> arguments have coherence. 
> 
> Theuns KRN 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Theuns Verwoerd  27 Nazareth Avenue
> Software EngineerPO Box 8011
> Allied Telesyn Research  Christchurch
> phone +64 3 339 3000 New Zealand
> fax   +64 3 339 3002 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  web: http://www.alliedtelesyn.co.nz/
> -
> 

Re: ChCh Press Tue March 12th- re: Dave Lanes open source letter

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

H, I work for a ex-government dept, now a private company, might have to do some 
digging about our old agreement with M$ :-).
 
jeremyb.

> From: Nick Elder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed PM 02:53:43 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: ChCh Press Tue March 12th- re: Dave Lanes open source letter
> 
> Well good on you for trying Dave!
> 
> 
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1008,1131577a1896,FF.html
> 

Re: Re: ChCh Press Tue March 12th- re: OPENZ letter

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Hi David,

select does give very generous discounts, canty uni will be under a similar deal, I'll 
do some digging ;-)

Wasn't there a country overseas that was going to renew their m$ agreement and was 
looking at open-source options because m$ had put the price up 100's of %?  might be a 
good case to present, when m$ has a stranglehold on you like that.

jeremyb.
 
> From: David Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/13 Wed PM 03:06:38 GMT+12:00
> To: clug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: ChCh Press Tue March 12th- re: OPENZ letter
> 
> Thanks very much, Nick - but we're (by we, I mean Openz) by no means 
> giving up!!  Have no fear.  In fact, I spoke to the Rt. Hon. Pete 
> Hodgson at the "Innovate" conference last week.  He put me on to Neil 
> McKay, the head of IndustryNZ, and his staff who have the task of 
> developing some of the e-gov't policy.  As it happens,
> the staffers I talked to were VERY interested in our proposal, and we
> will be conducting further talks.  I'm just interested in hearing more
> (Jeremy B?) about the "G2000 Preferential Select Agreement" between
> Microsoft and the NZ Gov't and a few large corporates like Air NZ and (I
> believe) the CHEs...  They apparently get something like a 60-80%
> discount on MS stuff - but is it exclusive?  I suspect so.  That would
> certainly explain the gov't's reluctance to do anything "drastic" like
> approve the use of a non MS system.  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 15:53, Nick Elder wrote:
> > Well good on you for trying Dave!
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1008,1131577a1896,FF.html
> -- 
> ** David Lane, Director - Egressive Limited * [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
> ** PO Box 24162, Christchurch, NZ * www.egressive.com * 025 229 8147 ** 
> ** Open Source: software for the discerning palate * www.openz.org **
> 
> 

Re: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Thats a really big hassle, having to create extra groups all the time is the only 
workaround I've had the pleasure of doing, there is a linux acl project:

http://acl.bestbits.at/

But it's the kind of thing IMHO that should be in the kernel of linux and in all os's.

jeremyb.

 
> From: "Ryurick M. Hristev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/14 Thu PM 01:32:40 GMT+12:00
> To: Canterbury Linux LUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Ryurick M. Hristev wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Rex Johnston wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 10:07, Steve Brorens wrote:
> > > 
> > > > BTW I'd go so far as to say that the Windows (NT/W2K/XP/.NET) NTFS permission
> > > > structure is overall far superior to Linux , BUT the
> > > 
> > > How exactly ?
> > 
> > Assume that one non-root user wants to give r|w access to a file|dir to
> > another one _only_. How do you solve this with standard Unix perms ?
> > (I've hit this problem several times, happens more often then one would
> > think).
> 
> To make myself clear: I want a solution not a workaround.
> 
> I could invent myself several kludges but AFAIK there is no solution
> other than begging the sysadmin for _each_ such case. The user can
> _not_ solve the problem by himself.  
> 
> Cheers,
> -- 
> Ryurick M. Hristev mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Computer Systems Manager
> University of Canterbury, Physics & Astronomy Dept., New Zealand
> 
> 

[~OT] Re: Re: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I remember the days when IBM was the big evil empire, they owe a lot to microsoft!! ;-)
 
> From: Adrian Stacey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/15 Fri PM 01:19:24 GMT+12:00
> To: Canterbury Linux LUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Why Linux won't suffer from viruses like Windows/Outlook
> 
> You do of course mean IBM...  (Well they thought of it).
> 
> 

Re: Re: mandrake 8.2 final

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Take two versions of windows and call me in the morning!
 
> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/17 Sun PM 09:56:33 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],  nzlug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: mandrake 8.2 final
> 
> it. Is there some  counselling progamme you can put me on?
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

Re: Re: Stuff article etc.

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

True, however the cost of the software becomes trivial compared to the cost of 
re-training the MS orientated staff and the cost savings benefit of the free OS/apps 
disappears.

jeremyb.

> From: Zane Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/18 Mon AM 09:38:55 GMT+12:00
> CC: Canterbury Linux LUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Stuff article etc.
> 
> To a certain extent you are right but the initial cost of training
> one's IT staff should always be part of the deployment of any new 
> software. 
> Although the skills don't exist now this does not mean that they cannot
> be created. 
> The inertia of IT staff with a massive professional investment in M$
> systems would probably be the major hurdle.
> 
> "Ryurick M. Hristev" wrote:
> > 
> > On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > > I have only just started to think
> > > seriously about a course of action to take but one thing is clear,
> > > SOMETHING must be done.  The waste of taxpayer money on proprietary
> > > products, especially in support of a proven illegal monopoly is
> > > disgusting.
> > 
> > Taking action is nice but please bear in mind one important factor:
> > The cost of acquiring commercial software is just part of the overall
> > picture. One also need skills to support open software. These skills
> > are neither cheap to acquire nor can it be done overnight. IMHO the
> > current skills "pool" is not large enough for a large scale open
> > software deployment. This means that IMHO pilot/small projects is what
> > we should aim for the desktop and possible medium projects for the
> > servers "room".
> > 
> > Feel free to disagree with this opinion. :-)
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > --
> > Ryurick M. Hristev mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Computer Systems Manager
> > University of Canterbury, Physics & Astronomy Dept., New Zealand
> 
> -- 
> Zane Gilmore, Analyst / Programmer
> Information Services Section, Information Technology Dept, University of Canterbury
> Private Bag 4800
> Christchurch New Zealand
> phone +64-3-364 2987 extn 7895  Fax 364
> 

Re: Apache Re Direct

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Most dns providers I have used have a 'stealth' redirection mode which basically opens 
your tripod site in a frame so it appears to come from the proper url.

jeremyb.
 
> From: Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/18 Mon AM 10:42:42 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Apache Re Direct
> 
> How do i redirect a domain name say...  
>  blahblah.com to http://tripod.com/members/site/index.html
> for example??
> 
> or this is done in the dns??
> 
> Many Thanks,
> Johnno
> 
> 
> 

Re: Re: Stuff article etc.

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Not entirely, we're a large corporate ex govt dept who are still running NT4 on the 
desktop, haven't upgraded since the 95 days, later this year we're looking at windows 
2000, however in our enterprise select agreement which was negotiated when we became a 
company we've always had windows 2000 client access licences which let us run older 
versions of NT if we wanted to, there'd be a small but not insignificant cost to 
upgrade those to XP CAL's.

Given it's taken like 3 years to move to windows 2000 and the cost of updating 700 
desktops... I can't see another upgrade on the horizon, plus theres no way anyone here 
could stomach running XP ;-)
 
I guess what I'm trying to say is that big organisations move very slowly and very 
carefully, upgrading is not something that happens too often and when it does if 
you've had some forethought theres only the labour cost involved.

jeremyb.

> From: Vik Olliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/18 Mon PM 09:08:21 GMT+12:00
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Stuff article etc.
> 
> Yes, don't forget that it has to be re-acquired again and again as
> versions change.
> 
> Vik :v)
> -- 
> /"\  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  /"\
> \ /   ASCII Ribbon Campaign  One of The Olliver Family  \ /
>  X   - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail http://olliver.family.gen.nzX
> / \  - NO MSWord docs in e-mail  Public PGP key available there / \
> 

[OT - WinXP] Re: Re: Stuff article etc.

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Theres a coupla things that bug me about XP, firstly the activation requirements, what 
a huge pain in the butt!!

Secondly it's default interface looks like Fisher Price have created 'windows for 
dummies', it's just plain unbearable how it shifts everything around and so forth, 
sure you can change it and some of the multi-user stuff is cool, but I think I'll 
stick with 2K until theres a need to upgrade.

jeremyb.

> From: Adrian Stacey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/19 Tue PM 12:47:00 GMT+12:00
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Stuff article etc.
> 
> Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> 
> 
> > Given it's taken like 3 years to move to windows 2000 and the cost of updating
> 
> > 700 desktops... I can't see another upgrade on the horizon, plus theres no way
> 
> > anyone here could stomach running XP ;-)
> 
> Just to go more OT, why does everyone down XP so much.  As an early OS/2 
> adopter, I wouldn't touch the stuff but eventually had to get involved 
> (windows IS a good income generator).  I use XP Pro and quite honestly, 
> find it the most stable winders yet, if the desktop was OOP you'd be 
> forgiven for thinking it was OS/2.  Mind you, I have a corp licence and 
> don't need to activate...
> 
> Adrian
> 
> 

Re: Re: CLUG social chin wag-Tonight 25th March 2002-Yes its still on :-)

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

IMO, Monday night really isn't good later in the week is much better, thursdays are 
cool, don't like doing things on the first day back at work :-(.

jeremyb
 
> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/26 Tue PM 02:01:37 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: CLUG social chin wag-Tonight 25th March 2002-Yes its still on :-)
> 
> OK, so where the hell was everyone?? Nick E, myself and Zane G were the
> only attendees. We're hardly gonna change the world & drink the pub dry
> with that sort of turnout guys & gals.
> 
> Still the absence of numbers allowed the democratic process to be
> accelerated to the point where we agreed:
> 
> 1. every nonattending list member is first to shout next time,
> 
> 2. if they don't turn up next time their computers and linux distros are
> forfeited and they must use Win XP on a 486/33 from now on. They can
> spend the money saved by shouting to buy XP.
> 
> OK so in turns of turnout it wasn't a big success, so for reference, can
> we have a straw poll on why people didn't attend? 
> 
> Wrong time? 
> 
> wrong day of the week? 
> 
> scared of the dark? 
> 
> venue too far away? 
> 
> too geeky to hold a conversation? 
> 
> too geeky to use transport? 
> 
> Spent all my money on hardware to run KDE3 and can't afford to drink?
> 
> Spent all my money on bandwidth downloading 3 cd's of Mnadrake 8.2 and 6
> cd's of RedHat 7.3 beta and can't afford petrol?
> 
> let us know what the problem was and we'll try and get it right next
> time.
> 
> PS I was only joking about having to use XP on a 486/33 if you default
> next time. You can use Win 2k if you prefer :-)
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

Re: RE: CLUG social chin wag-Tonight 25th March 2002-Yes its still on :-)

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Hmmm, agreed, somewhere in town would be better for me too :-).

jeremyb
 
> From: Chris Hellyar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/03/26 Tue PM 03:28:40 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: CLUG social chin wag-Tonight 25th March 2002-Yes its still on:-)
> 
> Hello..
> 
> Possibly a bit far (45 minute drive from my place) but also I was
> frantically trying to finish some work on a website I said I'd finish by
> Monday (two weeks ago).
> 
> Cheers,  Chris Hellyar.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Nick Rout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 March 2002 14:02
> To: CLUG
> Subject: Re: CLUG social chin wag-Tonight 25th March 2002-Yes its still
> on :-)
> 
> 
> OK, so where the hell was everyone?? Nick E, myself and Zane G were the
> only attendees. We're hardly gonna change the world & drink the pub dry
> with that sort of turnout guys & gals.
> 
> Still the absence of numbers allowed the democratic process to be
> accelerated to the point where we agreed:
> 
> 1. every nonattending list member is first to shout next time,
> 
> 2. if they don't turn up next time their computers and linux distros are
> forfeited and they must use Win XP on a 486/33 from now on. They can
> spend the money saved by shouting to buy XP.
> 
> OK so in turns of turnout it wasn't a big success, so for reference, can
> we have a straw poll on why people didn't attend? 
> 
> Wrong time? 
> 
> wrong day of the week? 
> 
> scared of the dark? 
> 
> venue too far away? 
> 
> too geeky to hold a conversation? 
> 
> too geeky to use transport? 
> 
> Spent all my money on hardware to run KDE3 and can't afford to drink?
> 
> Spent all my money on bandwidth downloading 3 cd's of Mnadrake 8.2 and 6
> cd's of RedHat 7.3 beta and can't afford petrol?
> 
> let us know what the problem was and we'll try and get it right next
> time.
> 
> PS I was only joking about having to use XP on a 486/33 if you default
> next time. You can use Win 2k if you prefer :-)
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> ##
> The  contents  of  this  e-mail  message  may   be  privileged  and/or
> confidential. If you are not the  intended recipient please delete the
> message and notify the sender. 
> 
> Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author, and do
> not necessarily represent the official  position of the Selwyn District 
> Council
> ##
> 

Re: parsing

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

cat textfile | sed 's/\[.*\]//g'

:-)

jeremyb.

> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/04/05 Fri PM 04:39:28 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: parsing
> 
> I have  a string like postfix/smtpd[25532]: I want to cut it off at the
> [ so I end up with postfix/smtpd 
> 
> how do i do it?
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

Re: Re: parsing

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Or echo the string etc.. ;-)
 
> From: Jeremy Bertenshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/04/05 Fri PM 04:55:18 GMT+12:00
> To: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: parsing
> 
> cat textfile | sed 's/\[.*\]//g'
> 
> :-)
> 
> jeremyb.
> 
> > From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2002/04/05 Fri PM 04:39:28 GMT+12:00
> > To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: parsing
> > 
> > I have  a string like postfix/smtpd[25532]: I want to cut it off at the
> > [ so I end up with postfix/smtpd 
> > 
> > how do i do it?
> > -- 
> > Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Fortunately redhats rpm will tell you what it needs to satisfy dependencies so theres 
no need for guess work, starting with the main rpm and trying that is probably the 
best way to go, it's still necessitates a bit of trial and error, of course if you 
have a bunch of rpm's to install and know that they will satisfy all the dependencies, 
but can't be bothered installing them in the proper order --nodeps could be handy ;-)

jeremyb.
 
> From: Volker Kuhlmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/04/08 Mon PM 06:22:38 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(
> 
> > Welp iv d/l all of the rpm's from 
> > ftp://download.au.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/latest/Red Hat/i386 Now im just 
> > wondering how to go about installing them.
> 
> Put the d/l rpms all in one directory, cd to it, and type rpm -Uvh *.
> It will install all the rpms, unless you have unsatisfied dependencies,
> in which case it will install none. You need to find out what other
> packages to install yourself, guessing is not usually difficult. SuSE's
> install program can work it out by itself, your installer should to (if
> not, switch distros). You're far more likely to succeed if you install
> the KDE stuff from your distro first, then upgrade to 3.
> 
> Volker
> 
> -- 
> Volker Kuhlmann, list0570 at paradise dot net dot nz
> http://volker.orcon.net.nz/   Please do not CC list postings to me.
> 

Re: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

H, rpm -Uvh * has never worked for me in the past upto and including RH7.2, always 
complained lots about dependencies and never installed anything, case in point being 
Ximian, downloaded all their rpms and tryed it, no go so went with the nodeps option 
and it worked.

jeremyb. 
 
> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/04/09 Tue AM 09:44:53 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(
> 
> 
> IMHO the rpm -Uvh * approach is better than --nodeps. rpm will analyse
> the bunch of rpm files you gave it and as long as all dependencies are
> satisfied within the group, it will install them all.
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

Re: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Just tested rpm on RH7.2 rpm -Uvh * on a directory full of rpms which together all 
satisfy each others dependencies, the first thing it did was complain about failed 
dependencies  rpm 4.0.3-1.0.3

jeremyb.
 
> From: Volker Kuhlmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/04/09 Tue PM 01:56:05 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(
> 
> IMNSHO that is BS. rpm will resolve all dependencies of all the
> packages on the command line together with what's installed
> irrespectively of the order with which the packages are specified on
> the command line. You only have to make sure there is only one
> invocation of rpm, i.e. specify *all* packages on the command line.
> 
> > 2) There will be _hundreds_ of conflicts with the existing kde 
> > applications you have installed.
> 
> I don't think this is true either. The existing packages are "old",
> therefore their dependencies will disappear.
> 
> > My personal experience with the rpm system is that you surrender control 
> > of your computer to the builder of the rpm
> 
> This is no different to apt. Besides, it's not true.
> 
> rpm will not install new packages if one of their files conflicts with
> the same file of another already installed package, unless that package
> is updated to a newer one with the same invocation. Tell me how that
> can screw your system in a hurry (assuming that's what you mean by
> "surrender total control")? And, don't forget, we're not talking about
> nuking existing kde 2.x packages being a propblem here - that's the
> intent, not the danger.
> 
> It is however a good idea to quickly check -qp --scripts .
> 
> > ( who may or may not be 
> > competent ).
> 
> Very true.
> 
> As for competence, I have to say yours about rpm isn't that great... :-)
> I don't like people spreading this FUD about rpm. Let me guess - you
> use debian?
> 
> Nobody has yet mentioned the real reason why dependecies are a pain
> when it comes to installing foreign-distro packages, and why rpm -Uvh
> in this case has a good chance of a big barf (in which case use
> --nodeps and hope it works).
> 
> Volker
> 
> -- 
> Volker Kuhlmann, list0570 at paradise dot net dot nz
> http://volker.orcon.net.nz/   Please do not CC list postings to me.
> 

Re: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I'm glad it's always worked for you Volker, however it has not worked for me many 
times, maybe there is some difference between rpm on RedHat and SuSe?.

The machine is a fresh install of RH7.2, it's not had anything 'dodgy' done to it.

By 'unable to fulfil each others dependencies' i'm saying that rpm was unable to 
figure out from the list of rpms given to it (*) that they will cover all the 
dependencies, as a side thought, surely this has to be a non-trivial programming issue 
as the size of the list of rpm's increases.

jeremyb.
 
> From: Volker Kuhlmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/04/09 Tue PM 06:21:26 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(
> 
> Ehh, so? That can have many reasons. It has always worked for me, and
> that's the idea. Obviously your system is a bit screwy somewhere. I
> question your statement "fulfil each others dependencies", the fact you
> get an error is evidence to the contrary. How do you know that anyway?
> If you installed with --nodeps and things seem to work at least
> somewhat, it doesn't prove everything required by the rpms yuou tried
> to install is indeed installed. If things seem to run, it's also
> possible that files which are technically speaking missing (according
> to the rpm database) are indeed installed somewhere, because you did
> something dodgy before. Heaps of possibilities.
> 
> Volker
> 
> -- 
> Volker Kuhlmann, list0570 at paradise dot net dot nz
> http://volker.orcon.net.nz/   Please do not CC list postings to me.
> 

Re: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Teehee, got one of those, never did like the programming side of it :-(.

jeremyb.
 
> From: Carl Cerecke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/04/10 Wed AM 09:21:56 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Installing kde3.0 -- I need help :(
> 
> Do a degree in Computer Science, we'll show you how to do it :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> -- 
> Carl Cerecke, Assistant Lecturer|email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Department of Computer Science, |Phone:  +64 3 364 2987 ext. 7859 
> University of Canterbury,   |Fax:+64 3 364 2569   
> Private Bag 4800,   |http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~cdc
> Christchurch, New Zealand.  |
> 

RE: Samba help

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Best thing I've found for samba is using swat, it comes with RedHat, isn't
usually
installed by default, but you can check, do a rpm -q samba-swat to see if it
is, if
not install it from the cd (2nd I think) rpm -Uvh
whatevertheswatpackagenameis.rpm 

Edit /etc/xinetd.d/swat 

Change it from disable = yes to no

Add your local subnet to the only_from line, i.e. instead of 127.0.0.1 put
192.168.1.0
for all hosts on the 192.168.1 subnet.

restart xinetd:

/etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart

now you should be able to point your webbrowser at
http://nameofsambaserver:901
or use ip number if you don't have any form of name resolution.

Login as root and then you can do funky webadmin things.

I always set it as USER security in the globals section, turn encrypt
passwords on and
update encrypted, should then start working with the 2k/xp boxes after a
restart of smbd.

HTH,

JeremyB.


>  -Original Message-
> From: Fisher Family [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 1:48 p.m.
> To:   Linux Users Group
> Subject:  Samba help
> 
> I am having no success with Samba. Well actually I have had progress but
> not enough to use it yet.
> 
> My Win2000 and WinXP PC's can see the Samba Server but are denied access
> or not accessable.
> 
> Can anyone see what else I need to do?
> 
> I have followed the instructions in the page below but still no good.
> 
>  a-winnt.html>
> 
> Here is my smb.conf file.
> 
> # Samba config file created using SWAT
> # from Grunter (127.0.0.1)
> # Date: 2002/04/25 13:05:09
> 
> # Global parameters
> [global]
>   workgroup = FXNZ
>   server string = Samba Server
>   encrypt passwords = Yes
> # next line by Robert
>   smb passwd file = /etc/samba/smbpasswd
>   log file = /var/log/samba/%m.log
>   max log size = 0
>   socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192
>   dns proxy = No
>   admin users = Robert
>   read list = Simon
>   printing = lprng
> 
> [homes]
>   comment = Home Directories
>   valid users = %S
>   read only = No
>   create mask = 0664
>   directory mask = 0775
>   browseable = No
> 
> [printers]
>   comment = All Printers
>   path = /var/spool/samba
>   printable = Yes
>   browseable = No
> 
> [Storage]
>   path = /storage
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Robert

<>

RE: Samba help

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

LOL, I should read peoples emails properly, just noticed your smb.conf in
another
message was created with swat have you been restarting smb after you
make 
some of those changes?  also heres my smb.conf which works with 2 win2k
boxes
and a coupla win98 boxes at home.

# Samba config file created using SWAT
# from 192.168.2.120 (192.168.2.120)
# Date: 2001/07/16 12:19:16

# Global parameters
[global]
workgroup = STRAVEN
server string = Samba Server
encrypt passwords = Yes
ssl CA certFile = /usr/share/ssl/certs/ca-bundle.crt
log file = /var/log/samba/%m.log
max log size = 0
socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192
domain master = Yes
dns proxy = No
printing = lprng

[homes]
comment = Home Directories
writeable = Yes
browseable = No

[printers]
comment = All Printers
path = /var/spool/samba
printable = Yes
browseable = No

[mp3]
path = /var/space2/mp3
writeable = Yes
guest ok = Yes

[movies]
path = /var/space3/movies
writeable = Yes
guest ok = Yes

[gallery]
path = /var/www/html/gallery
writeable = Yes
guest ok = Yes

[shared]
path = /var/space1/shared
writeable = Yes
guest ok = Yes

[mp3_2]
path = /var/space0/mp3
writeable = Yes
guest ok = Yes

[web]
path = /var/www/html/
writeable = Yes
guest ok = Yes


>  -Original Message-
> From:     Jeremy Bertenshaw [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Friday, 26 April 2002 1:29 p.m.
> To:   'Fisher Family'; 'Linux Users Group'
> Subject:  RE: Samba help
> 
> Best thing I've found for samba is using swat, it comes with RedHat, isn't
> usually
> installed by default, but you can check, do a rpm -q samba-swat to see if
> it is, if
> not install it from the cd (2nd I think) rpm -Uvh
> whatevertheswatpackagenameis.rpm 
> 
> Edit /etc/xinetd.d/swat 
> 
> Change it from disable = yes to no
> 
> Add your local subnet to the only_from line, i.e. instead of 127.0.0.1 put
> 192.168.1.0
> for all hosts on the 192.168.1 subnet.
> 
> restart xinetd:
> 
> /etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart
> 
> now you should be able to point your webbrowser at
> http://nameofsambaserver:901
> or use ip number if you don't have any form of name resolution.
> 
> Login as root and then you can do funky webadmin things.
> 
> I always set it as USER security in the globals section, turn encrypt
> passwords on and
> update encrypted, should then start working with the 2k/xp boxes after a
> restart of smbd.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> JeremyB.
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
>   From:   Fisher Family [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>   Sent:   Thursday, 25 April 2002 1:48 p.m.
>   To: Linux Users Group
>   Subject:Samba help
> 
>   I am having no success with Samba. Well actually I have had progress
> but not enough to use it yet.
> 
>   My Win2000 and WinXP PC's can see the Samba Server but are denied
> access or not accessable.
> 
>   Can anyone see what else I need to do?
> 
>   I have followed the instructions in the page below but still no
> good.
> 
>   
> <http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7.2-Manual/custom-guide/samb
> a-winnt.html>
> 
>   Here is my smb.conf file.
> 
>   # Samba config file created using SWAT
>   # from Grunter (127.0.0.1)
>   # Date: 2002/04/25 13:05:09
> 
>   # Global parameters
>   [global]
>   workgroup = FXNZ
>   server string = Samba Server
>   encrypt passwords = Yes
>   # next line by Robert
>   smb passwd file = /etc/samba/smbpasswd
>   log file = /var/log/samba/%m.log
>   max log size = 0
>   socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192
>   dns proxy = No
>   admin users = Robert
>   read list = Simon
>   printing = lprng
> 
>   [homes]
>   comment = Home Directories
>   valid users = %S
>   read only = No
>   create mask = 0664
>   directory mask = 0775
>   browseable = No
> 
>   [printers]
>   comment = All Printers
>   path = /var/spool/samba
>   printable = Yes
>   browseable = No
> 
>   [Storage]
>   path = /storage
> 
> 
>   Thanks in advance,
> 
>   Robert

<>

RE: tightVNC

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

One thing that always annoyed me about VNC was the speed, having
been a long time PCAnywhere user it pales in comparison, must check
out this tho', I use VNC on a citrix box at work to remotely admin
some of my servers without having to have the firewall full of more
holes than necessary and it's a tad slow on 56k dialup, hopefully this
will make a big difference.

jeremyb.

http://www.jeremyb.net

-Original Message-
From: C Falconer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 26 April 2002 4:32 p.m.
To: Will Pilvio
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: tightVNC


I second that - tightvnc makes windows vaguely workable across dial-up,
and almost snappy across 10 Mbit ehternet :)

On Fri, 2002-04-26 at 15:41, Will Pilvio wrote:
> This just might interest a few:
>
> from the GnomeNETWORK:
>
> A Better Brand of VNC
>
> http://www.tightvnc.com/
>
> I hate slow connections, so when I need to remotely control a server over
a
> crawling link, it's that much more frustrating. I use VNC quite a bit
> because it's easy, free and cross-platform, but it has its problems,
namely
> performance. TightVNC alleviates much of the performance lag that VNC
> inherently contains, rivaling the performance of the big-name commercial
> software packages.

OT: Domainz

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I haven't had a rant in a while so here we go...

What is domainz's problem? they appear to be trying to complicate the whole domain 
registration change process with beaurocratic nonsense...

A part of our business was sold and we wanted to transfer a domain to the purchaser... 
easy you would think... I filled in all the forms, got the purchaser (In Australia) to 
fax their part to me as for legal reasons we were in a tad of a hurry.. mistake number 
1.

I put down our company details with our name blahblah New Zealand Limited and posted 
it off.. mistake number 2.

Unfortunately (but fortunately for them) I was on leave when they rang and they talked 
to my boss, it seems that not only is the faxed part of the letter is inadmissable, 
but because the domain was registered as blahblah new zealand (sans limited) we needed 
to fill out another form and send it back... 

Now is it just me or is that completely petty, I can vaguely understand the fax thing 
(h i might have forged their details...) but the whole 'limited' thing, really!...

Apparently there is some new rule about domains only being registered as an individual 
or as company name (written exactly as per your company registration documents) in the 
same way as they do Australia. Fair enough you would think, however when asked if this 
will affect other domains which were registered years ago without the 'limited' bit, 
they said it would cause problems but they're not going to do anything about advising 
people of all the changes...

Normal programming shall now resume.

jeremyb.

Re: Re: Domainz

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I figure that someone had a large roll of red tape there and had trouble finding the 
end ;-)

jeremyb.
 
> From: Johnno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/04/29 Mon PM 12:22:48 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Domainz
> 
> I have the same problem..   and the hassle i had to fo throw to change the
> holder name was a real pain..  I first tried to goto the name holder details
> and change them there and it come up to say i was not allowed to..
> 
> Then why do they have that option there if it does not work
> 
> I ened up filling in the paper work and sending it off...
> 
> Johnno
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jeremy Bertenshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:38 AM
> Subject: OT: Domainz
> 
> 
> > I haven't had a rant in a while so here we go...
> >
> > What is domainz's problem? they appear to be trying to complicate the
> whole domain registration change process with beaurocratic nonsense...
> >
> > A part of our business was sold and we wanted to transfer a domain to the
> purchaser... easy you would think... I filled in all the forms, got the
> purchaser (In Australia) to fax their part to me as for legal reasons we
> were in a tad of a hurry.. mistake number 1.
> >
> > I put down our company details with our name blahblah New Zealand Limited
> and posted it off.. mistake number 2.
> >
> > Unfortunately (but fortunately for them) I was on leave when they rang and
> they talked to my boss, it seems that not only is the faxed part of the
> letter is inadmissable, but because the domain was registered as blahblah
> new zealand (sans limited) we needed to fill out another form and send it
> back...
> >
> > Now is it just me or is that completely petty, I can vaguely understand
> the fax thing (h i might have forged their details...) but the whole
> 'limited' thing, really!...
> >
> > Apparently there is some new rule about domains only being registered as
> an individual or as company name (written exactly as per your company
> registration documents) in the same way as they do Australia. Fair enough
> you would think, however when asked if this will affect other domains which
> were registered years ago without the 'limited' bit, they said it would
> cause problems but they're not going to do anything about advising people of
> all the changes...
> >
> > Normal programming shall now resume.
> >
> > jeremyb.
> >
> >
> 
> 

Re: how to stuff up your day

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

In that sorta situation if you had logged out you can
always boot up in single user mode and change root's
passwd or copy a backed up version in :-).

jeremyb.

> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/04/30 Tue PM 04:28:34 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: how to stuff up your day
> 
> As typical boot scripts do in floppy distros, it wrote from scatch new
> versions of :
> 
> /etc/passwd
> /etc/profile
> /etc/resolv.conf
> /etc/networks
> 
> as well as a whole lot of other crap. Luckily I had stayed logged in as
> root, and had some backups of the most important files (/etc/passwd was
> a REAL worry until I realised there was a backup of it dated [date
> deleted cos its so embarrassing], and I'd only created one user since
> then!). Handy hint: in redhat every time you make a user, it makes a
> group of the same name, and /etc/group was untouched, so I could see
> what had been created.
> 
> Luckily it is all ok again now (I was able to go thru the boot script
> and understand everything it did and reverse it). Luckily too I didn't
> panic and log out, as I may not have been able to get back in!
> 
> Morals
> 
> 1. never never ever do anything as root except as absolutely necessary
> 
> 2. don't panic
> 
> (The latter is probably (c) Douglas Adams)
> 
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

Re: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I like his comment:

"Now comes the one sentence I told you about, explaining why Linux is nowhere to be 
found on your average end-user non-geek desktop: The worldwide established standard 
data format for exchanging word processing documents is Microsoft Word files, and no 
Linux distribution I know of comes with an open source program that can handle them."

What a load of garbage, so lets imagine a world with MS Word support in linux, the 
majority of computer users (i.e. the non-technical non-geek types) who can't deal with 
installing windows let alone installing linux will flock in droves I don't think 
so.

jeremyb.
 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 2002/05/02 Thu PM 12:12:53 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> 
> Great Article...and so true  Who owns your data??  You or the vendor 
> of your proprietary data format??
> 
> http://www.linuxandmain.com/tech/robformats.html
> 
> 
>   Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> 
> 
> By Rob Landley 
> 
> The answer to the title of this article is a single sentence, but you'll 
> have to read the whole article to understand it. The Linux community has 
> an amazing blind spot, and I'd like to rant about it a bit.
> 
> I keep bumping into programmers who think some program or other is 
> needed to change the world. They're wrong. "Linux just needs this one 
> program and then we'll be ready!" they cry. I generally want to slap 
> these people until they snap out of it (which is kind of hard to do 
> through an internet connection). They are making a fundamentally wrong 
> assumption. It's not about programs. It's about data.
> 
> Let me repeat that. Data formats are important. Programs are not.
> 
> Remainder of article at above link.
> 
> 
> 




Great Article...and so true  Who owns your data??  You or the vendor
 of your proprietary data format??


 http://www.linuxandmain.com/tech/robformats.html

Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
By Rob Landley

The answer to the title of this article is   a single sentence, but
 you'll have to read   the whole article to understand it. The Linux
  community has an amazing blind spot, and   I'd like to rant about
 it a bit.
I keep bumping into programmers who think   some program or other
is needed to change   the world. They're wrong. "Linux just   needs
this one program and then we'll be   ready!" they cry. I generally want
to   slap these people until they snap out of   it (which is kind
of hard to do through an   internet connection). They are making a 
 fundamentally  wrong assumption. It's not about programs.   It's
about data.
Let me repeat that. Data formats are important.   Programs are
not.
Remainder of article at above link.

Re: Re: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I think the only way for Linux to make it on the desktop is for it do be like windows, 
but do it better, faster, more reliably and cheaper.

I think lindows is a step in the right direction, most users are a complacent bunch, 
they don't like dealing with things out of their realm of knowledge, it's easy for us 
being know-it-all geeks to rant on about how much better life with linux would be, but 
the realities are that they don't want to change their UI and applications, let alone 
learn to use a scary new OS. 

Theres the other obvious points that there is nowhere for them to learn using linux, 
plenty of night classes or courses on windows, "We use it at work", now if you can 
give them something that they can use with their current skills

jeremyb.
 
> From: Jeremy Bertenshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/02 Thu PM 01:27:07 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],  CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> 
> I like his comment:
> 
> "Now comes the one sentence I told you about, explaining why Linux is nowhere to be 
>found on your average end-user non-geek desktop: The worldwide established standard 
>data format for exchanging word processing documents is Microsoft Word files, and no 
>Linux distribution I know of comes with an open source program that can handle them."
> 
> What a load of garbage, so lets imagine a world with MS Word support in linux, the 
>majority of computer users (i.e. the non-technical non-geek types) who can't deal 
>with installing windows let alone installing linux will flock in droves I don't 
>think so.
> 
> jeremyb.
>  
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: 2002/05/02 Thu PM 12:12:53 GMT+12:00
> > To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> > 
> > Great Article...and so true  Who owns your data??  You or the vendor 
> > of your proprietary data format??
> > 
> > http://www.linuxandmain.com/tech/robformats.html
> > 
> > 
> >   Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> > 
> > 
> > By Rob Landley <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > The answer to the title of this article is a single sentence, but you'll 
> > have to read the whole article to understand it. The Linux community has 
> > an amazing blind spot, and I'd like to rant about it a bit.
> > 
> > I keep bumping into programmers who think some program or other is 
> > needed to change the world. They're wrong. "Linux just needs this one 
> > program and then we'll be ready!" they cry. I generally want to slap 
> > these people until they snap out of it (which is kind of hard to do 
> > through an internet connection). They are making a fundamentally wrong 
> > assumption. It's not about programs. It's about data.
> > 
> > Let me repeat that. Data formats are important. Programs are not.
> > 
> > Remainder of article at above link.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 




Great Article...and so true  Who owns your data??  You or the vendor
 of your proprietary data format??


 http://www.linuxandmain.com/tech/robformats.html

Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
By Rob Landley

The answer to the title of this article is   a single sentence, but
 you'll have to read   the whole article to understand it. The Linux
  community has an amazing blind spot, and   I'd like to rant about
 it a bit.
I keep bumping into programmers who think   some program or other
is needed to change   the world. They're wrong. "Linux just   needs
this one program and then we'll be   ready!" they cry. I generally want
to   slap these people until they snap out of   it (which is kind
of hard to do through an   internet connection). They are making a 
 fundamentally  wrong assumption. It's not about programs.   It's
about data.
Let me repeat that. Data formats are important.   Programs are
not.
Remainder of article at above link.

Re: Re: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Don't worry dude, my rant was completely aimed at the Author of the article :-)
 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 2002/05/02 Thu PM 01:32:08 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> 
> Sorry I wasn't clear in my post.  I don't agree with the writers 
> supposition... I hate .doc and don't use it unless forced but he's got a 
> point in that it is a major hurdle just getting people to understand 
> there are other document formats in the first place.  Many point and 
> clickers think that .doc IS the document format of the internet. 
>  Pathetic but true.  This article just reinforces the danger once again 
> of using any proprietary, non-open data formats of any kind.
> 
> Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> 
> >I like his comment:
> >
> >"Now comes the one sentence I told you about, explaining why Linux is nowhere to be 
>found on your average end-user non-geek desktop: The worldwide established standard 
>data format for exchanging word processing documents is Microsoft Word files, and no 
>Linux distribution I know of comes with an open source program that can handle them."
> >
> >What a load of garbage, so lets imagine a world with MS Word support in linux, the 
>majority of computer users (i.e. the non-technical non-geek types) who can't deal 
>with installing windows let alone installing linux will flock in droves I don't 
>think so.
> >
> >jeremyb.
> > 
> >
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Date: 2002/05/02 Thu PM 12:12:53 GMT+12:00
> >>To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>Subject: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> >>
> >>Great Article...and so true  Who owns your data??  You or the vendor 
> >>of your proprietary data format??
> >>
> >>http://www.linuxandmain.com/tech/robformats.html
> >>
> >>
> >>  Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> >>
> >>
> >>By Rob Landley <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >>The answer to the title of this article is a single sentence, but you'll 
> >>have to read the whole article to understand it. The Linux community has 
> >>an amazing blind spot, and I'd like to rant about it a bit.
> >>
> >>I keep bumping into programmers who think some program or other is 
> >>needed to change the world. They're wrong. "Linux just needs this one 
> >>program and then we'll be ready!" they cry. I generally want to slap 
> >>these people until they snap out of it (which is kind of hard to do 
> >>through an internet connection). They are making a fundamentally wrong 
> >>assumption. It's not about programs. It's about data.
> >>
> >>Let me repeat that. Data formats are important. Programs are not.
> >>
> >>Remainder of article at above link.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> Great Article...and so true  Who owns your data??  You or the 
> >> vendor of your proprietary data format??
> >>
> >> http://www.linuxandmain.com/tech/robformats.html
> >>
> >>
> >>   Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> >>
> >>
> >> By Rob Landley <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >> The answer to the title of this article is a single sentence, but 
> >> you'll have to read the whole article to understand it. The Linux 
> >> community has an amazing blind spot, and I'd like to rant about it a bit.
> >>
> >> I keep bumping into programmers who think some program or other is 
> >> needed to change the world. They're wrong. "Linux just needs this one 
> >> program and then we'll be ready!" they cry. I generally want to slap 
> >> these people until they snap out of it (which is kind of hard to do 
> >> through an internet connection). They are making a fundamentally 
> >> wrong assumption. It's not about programs. It's about data.
> >>
> >> Let me repeat that. Data formats are important. Programs are not.
> >>
> >> Remainder of article at above link.
> >>
> 
> 
> 




Sorry I wasn't clear in my post.  I don't agree with the writers supposition...
I hate .doc and don't use it unless forced but he's got a point in that it
is a major hurdle just getting people to understand there are other document
formats in the first 

Re: Re: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Howsabout sending me a page thats not in gibberish... :-P
 
> From: V K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/02 Thu PM 01:57:29 GMT+12:00
> To: Jeremy Bertenshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Re: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> 
> [offlist]
> 
> Hey could you please do some serious study on how to respond to emails?
> 
> http://learn.to/quote
> 
> Thanks, Volker
> 
> -- 
> Volker Kuhlmann   is possibly list0570 with the domain in header
> http://volker.orcon.net.nz/   Please do not CC list postings to me.
> 
> 

Re: Re: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I totally agree, altho' a lot of those countries like China are starting to develop 
their IT infrastructure and therefore can be a lot more open to new ideas and so 
forth, my concerns are more with the existing Windows userbase which is so hard to 
break into. 

jeremyb.
 
> From: "Ryurick M. Hristev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/02 Thu PM 01:57:13 GMT+12:00
> To: Canterbury Linux LUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Why Linux isn't on the desktop yet
> 
> On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> But apparently everybody is ignoring some other arguments which I personally
> find compelling:
> 
> 1. The strategic and economic game:
> 
> Practically all of the IT technology is controlled by US,
> hardware and software. You name it, is US: IBM, Microsoft, HP, Sun, etc.
> (manufacturing doesn't count, printers are the only exception but there is
> only Japan)
> 
> As the IT penetrates the "second" and even "third" world countries
> I find very hard to believe that these countries will want to relinquish
> their IT infrastructure control (government and military above all) over
> to US.
> 
> Can you imagine China, Russia and the Arab world basing their strategy
> on US controlled IT technology ? I can't.
> 
> Can you imagine India and Latin America being able to pay the US prices
> for IT technology ? I can't. (yes, prices are country based but still
> too high).
> 
> 2. The user game:
> 
> The argument here is that users will not want that or they want something
> which is not available under Linux.
> 
> First AFAIK in the average enterprise it is _not_ the user who decide
> but the _employer_ trough various authorities: CIO, etc. (Universities
> may be notable exceptions at least in some areas).
> 
> Second, again AFAIK, most users interact with just one or two apps.
> An complex office suite is required only for the front office and few
> others like that. You don't need it for a POS or many other places.
> 
> And finally if a user would use Linux at work for 8 hours why would 
> he/she want to use anything else at home ?
> 
> 3. The "Linux is not ready for the desktop" game:
> 
> I've seen many articles with this subject over the last 3-6 months.
> 
> This is a very interesting development not for what they say
> (that's obvious) but most importantly for what they don't say but imply.
> 
> You would not have seen such articles in the past, it was damn obvious
> to anybody that Linux was not ready for Joe Average.
> 
> But now you see them, a dime a dozed ;-)
> 
> Which it turn means that is no longer obvious. One now have to do some
> serious study and write an article to argue the points!
> 
> It means in fact that Linux is, if not ready, at least very close!
> 
> Which in turn means in fact that Linux is _already_ good for the desktop
> for at least some situations!
> 
> The development is interesting from another point of view as well:
> it follows very closely (so far) the same path as the "Linux is not ready
> as server" argument.
> 
> For those who have followed the arguments 3-4 years ago the similarities
> are striking: after ~1 year of argumentation suddenly it ceased and Linux
> _was_ good as server. Nowadays very few deny this.
> 
> It would be certainly interesting to follow this development.
> 
> Cheers,
> -- 
> Ryurick M. Hristev mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Computer Systems Manager
> University of Canterbury, Physics & Astronomy Dept., New Zealand
> 
> 

Re: DipIT and (Linux-)IT jobs

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

My advice would be to look at what sort of position you
would like to get and train appropriately, and remember
that the cost is insignificant compared to potential 
earnings you would make with higher qualifications. :-)

Experience is very important these days as there are
hordes of young'uns coming out of all the spherions and
the likes with these new qualifications so you need to
stand out from the bunch, having a more mature outlook
or experience in other areas could be useful, but try
and get any work experience you can, technical referees
would be useful :-).

jeremyb.
 
> From: Yuri de Groot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/05 Sun PM 07:33:15 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: DipIT and (Linux-)IT jobs
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm considering a 9 month Diploma in IT.
> The course content includes some Linux stuff.
> 
> Does anyone on this list employ IT staff, and if so
> can you tell me if this is a qualification that would make
> a difference to you as an IT employer.
> 
> It is a "graduate diploma" and is "NZQA level 7",
> whatever that means.
> 
> Any thoughts about this from IT employers?
> 
> TIA
> Yuri
> 

Re: Re: DipIT and (Linux-)IT jobs

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I came out of University about 5 years ago with a $30k+
student loan and I won't bore you with the details of 
how much more I'm making because of it. It was the foot
in the door that put me on the path to higher paid positions
and more responsibility. I still needed a lot of ability
etc, but when someone who doesn't know you is going to
hire you what are they going to judge you on?

jeremyb.


> From: C Falconer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/06 Mon AM 10:02:19 GMT+12:00
> To: Jeremy Bertenshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> CC: Yuri de Groot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: DipIT and (Linux-)IT jobs
> 
> Codswallop.  How many students are coming out of university these days
> with a $30 000 student loan, and how much more money do they make
> because of having a qualification?
>  
> > Experience is very important these days as there are
> > hordes of young'uns coming out of all the spherions and
> > the likes with these new qualifications so you need to
> > stand out from the bunch, having a more mature outlook
> > or experience in other areas could be useful, but try
> > and get any work experience you can, technical referees
> > would be useful :-).
> 
> I fully concur on that one.  My GF did some voluntary work at Moulten
> Media Trust, and ended up landing a job on the strength of their
> recommendations.  Experience is a seesaw... you need some to balance
> your training.
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: I love journalled file systems

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

But you miss the incredible joy of waiting for a huge ext2
drive to do it's check ;-) 

I remember waiting for like 30-40mins for a coupla 60Gb
drives to be checked, ugh!
 
> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/06 Mon PM 12:31:48 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: I love journalled file systems
> 
> just had a power outage in the central city . quite a large area -
> victoria street, armagh st, manchester st, hereford st, heaven knows
> where else.
> 
> all computers running fine though, esp the linux servers with ext3
> drives :-)
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Solicitor, PO Box 25-275,
> Christchurch, NZ
> ph +64-3-3798966
> fax +64-3-3798853
> http://www.rout.co.nz
> 
> 

Re: RH 7.3

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Three install cd's to download this time, must be following the bigger is better line 
like some of the other distro makers.

jeremyb.
 
> From: Chris Hellyar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/07 Tue AM 01:22:22 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RH 7.3
> 
> Thought I'd be the first one to post this to the lists :-).
> 
> RH7.3 has just been announced on the RH site..
> 
> May the downloads begin.
> 
> Cheers, Chris.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Re: RH 7.3

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Yep, it's an extra one on top of the bin iso's :-)
 
> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/07 Tue AM 11:32:13 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: RH 7.3
> 
> > The doc CD is mean, 50MB.
> 
> according to http://www.distrowatch.com/ there are 3 cd's 
> 
> valhalla-i386-disc1.iso (668MB), valhalla-i386-disc2.iso (670MB) and
> valhalla-i386-disc3.iso (518MB).
> 
> Which is the doc cd (maybe its none of these??)
> 
> oh and they seem to be here already (happy happy joy)
> 
> ftp://debian.paradise.net.nz/RedHat/redhat-7.3/
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Solicitor, PO Box 25-275,
> Christchurch, NZ
> ph +64-3-3798966
> fax +64-3-3798853
> http://www.rout.co.nz
> 
> 

Re: licentiousness

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I don't think you could escape it on the laptops, however if you went with a locally 
built Itec machine from Insite they can probably sell it without an OS.

jeremyb.
 
> From: Julian Carver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/10 Fri AM 11:20:26 GMT+12:00
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: licentiousness
> 
> Folks,
> 
> We're just in the process of buying some new hardware.  The people we're 
> using have advocated Compaq gear, and we're keen to go with what they're 
> offering.  We're intending to use Red Hat on the server, desktop & laptop.
> 
> The problem is that on the laptop & desktop lines they can't unbundle 
> the Windows OS, and there's no way we can prevent money going to 
> Microsoft.  This just isn't acceptable to me.
> 
> Has anyone else come up against this?  What vendors are there that are 
> free of this lockin?
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
> Seradigm - Knowledge Management
> Julian Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ph (03) 332 2147  cell 021 684 147 www.seradigm.com
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: OT Blue Cable : was RE: 802.11 and distributing linux around chch

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

*cough* *cough* I guess he had the end of a reel to
get rid of :-(
 
> From: Guy Steven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/15 Wed PM 02:28:58 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: OT Blue Cable : was RE: 802.11 and distributing linux around chch
> 
> speaking of blue cable, we had the office cabled recently. We have pair of
> sockets close (3 m) from the patch panel. The person who installed the cable
> has left a very long coil of blue cable under the desk by these sockets,
> saying that you have to have  a minimum of 15m  cable between the socket and
> the patch panel.
> 
> Can anyone verify this?

Re: slow dialup connection

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Who are you using for an ISP?

jeremyb.
 
> From: Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/21 Tue PM 03:11:43 GMT+12:00
> To: linux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: slow dialup connection
> 
> 'ello gurus,
> 
> I'm using an external 56k d-link modem. pppd asks wvdial to hook into the 
> internet when permitted traffic comes along.  However, the connection seems 
> really slow, perhaps 0.7K, although I'm not sure how to measure that on the 
> linux box itself (which is a network gateway).
> 
> Am I missing something obvious?  Perhaps a modem AT command in wvdial, any 
> suggestions where to look?  How do I check the connection speed (non-GUI 
> redhat).
> 
> Regards,
> Michael.
> 
> 

Re: Re: slow dialup connection

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

H, what are you using for firewalling rules, have
you tried disabling them etc?
 
> From: Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/21 Tue PM 03:37:32 GMT+12:00
> To: linux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: slow dialup connection
> 
> 
> >bing yourexternalIP IPofotherendofPPPlink
> >That will roughly estimate the effective bandwidth of your link.
> 
> Bah, Maths! Using ping (instead of bing), I came up with 311.590 msec 
> average.  I didn't specify the source address. I'd expect an average 
> anywhere around 100msec from a 56k connections wouldn't I?
> 
>  >Who are you using for an ISP?
> 
> Canterbury University - I get a true 50k connection on my w**doze machine 
> with them.
> 
> Michael.
> 
> 

Re: Re: Screen resolution - changing

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Try just typing a capital X and then pressing tab a couple
of times to see what it can resolve :-)

> From: Robert Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/21 Tue PM 07:23:25 GMT+12:00
> To: Chris Hellyar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> CC: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Screen resolution - changing
> 
> Unfortunately this command did not seem to work (command not found) even
> though it is documented on the RedHat site.
> 
> I did however find info about using "System, Text Mode Tool Menu" which
> allowed me to do what I wanted.
> 
> Isn't there a command for bringing up the same screen? I remember using
> it to get to Firewall configuration. Was it sysconfig or something?
> 
> Robert
> 
> On Mon, 2002-05-20 at 21:50, Chris Hellyar wrote:
> > Xconfigurator will do what you want..  run it as root from a command
> > prompt...
> > 
> > There may be something in KDE 3, but I dunno where it lives ;-).
> > 
> > Cheers, Chris H.
> > 
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Robert Fisher"
> > 
> > > Me again!!!
> > >
> > > I have selected a resolution which is a little too small when I recently
> > > installed RedHat 7.3
> > >
> > > I am sure there will be somewhere where I can change it - but where.
> > >
> > > Can someone please tell me where in KDE GUI can I change my screen
> > > resolution?
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> 
> 
> 

Re: High Speed Internet in....

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

LOL, cash machines running on ATM, I'm sure there was no pun intended, but that made 
me chuckle :-).

The cash machines will be on whatever they can provide in
that location, ISDN could be an option, expensive tho', 
Ihug are a bunch of morons, but their satellite service is
probably the only affordable option.

jeremyb
 
> From: Adam Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/23 Thu PM 11:44:16 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: High Speed Internet in
> 
> As a side point, what do Cash machines run on? ATM? I guess that may be
> another solution, I am sure that will come at a cost as well.
>  
>  enough said
> Adam
> 
> 

Title: Message



"remote 
locations", isn't funny what some people class as remote locations, looking at 
getting high speed internet access (of any description) in Hanmer Springs, I was 
surprised to find that there are no options at all. 
ADSL?   
--- Not supported
Frame Relay, which 
is advertised as available in most areas  -- Not 
available
 
Does anybody have 
any ideas of what I can do, I find it amazing that a town like Hanmer has not 
had their  exchange upgraded at all. A township that has over 30 
motels/hotels alone... must be a candidate for a tech boost. the best connection 
I have got while up there is 33k    --- luckily I live in chch, 
parents in Hanmer.
 
Anyhow, I welcome 
any suggestions... apparently there is a wireless option, Telecom are getting 
back to me, but I suspect that that will be utilising the 027 (CDMA) network, 
which as well as being ultra expensive, considering I want 24hr connections - I 
don't trust either being a current 027 customer who has had not too much joy 
with the system.
 
Strangely enough, 
Ihug claims that I can get Frame Relay with them (is this an indication about 
the knowledge of their 'Tech Support'), the cost for Ihug 128k Frame 
Relay   --- only $1100 per month, $500 setup fee, and router 
$1600.
 
As a side point, 
what do Cash machines run on? ATM? I guess that may be another solution, I am 
sure that will come at a cost as well.
 
 enough 
said
Adam

Re: Re: Software RAID

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Does anyone know what levels those ide raid motherboards
and adapters you can get these days support and if their
is linux drivers yet?  could be an option :-)

jeremyb.
 
> From: Michael Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/24 Fri AM 09:33:22 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Software RAID
> 
> On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 11:44:27PM +1200, Adam Martin wrote:
> > Although that is a step in the right direction, why not go to raid 5,
> 
> Because software RAID 5 sucks eggs.
> 
> Mike.
> -- 
> Michael Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Contentsofsignaturemaysettleduringshipping.
> 

Re: Software RAID

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

http://www.tastech.co.nz/ have an ide raid card
for $80 in their misc section, I guess if anyone
is interested they could enquire about chipset etc.

jeremyb.
 

Re: Re: Software RAID

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I was more thinking in terms of them doing a hardware
solution cheaply, they obviously have the drives all
ready if they are contemplating software raid, so for
another $80 they can have a hardware raid card and 
much better performance (i imagine :-)
 
> From: C Falconer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/24 Fri AM 11:04:09 GMT+12:00
> To: Jeremy Bertenshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> CC: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Software RAID
> 
> As with scsi raid arrays, its not the cost of the card thats the
> problem, its the cost of N matching drives.
> 
> I'd imagine that four matching 100Gb drives would be a reasonable start,
> and thats $2000 worth :-\
> 
> On Fri, 2002-05-24 at 10:40, Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> > http://www.tastech.co.nz/ have an ide raid card
> > for $80 in their misc section, I guess if anyone
> > is interested they could enquire about chipset etc.
> > 
> > jeremyb.
> >  
> 
> 
> 

OT: Laptop 4 sale

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

If anyone's interested, I have a Compaq Armada 4120 laptop for sale, it's a pentium 
150 w/ 16Mb ram and a 250Mb harddrive, the small harddrive is due to the original 1Gb 
one dying a while ago and me using up whatever I had lying around, it comes with a 
case and psu and the battery in it is a good'un (NiMH, lasts for hours..). Plus I'll 
throw in a 10Mb 3com PCMCIA NIC :-).

It's going in the buy sell & sexchange at the weekend, but I thought I might offer it 
here first as it'd make a good wee linux box.

Cheers,

JeremyB.

OT: PC 4 Sale

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Here I go again, got more stuff to sell, anyone interested in a P166/96Mb Ram and a 
2Gb HDD 32x CDROM and a 15" monitor? 

Cheers,

Jeremy.

Linux vendors to standardise on one distribution

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s=701&a=27405,00.asp

SuSe, Caldera, Conectiva, and Turbolinux are going to
try and take on RedHat's dominance, can't see it happen
myself with the amount of hardware vendors who have ties
with RedHat already.

jeremyb.

Re: Xeons

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Mmmm, Xeons are cool, we have a couple of 4way
compaq proliants with PIII550 Xeons in them, not
too shabby in the performance stakes ;-).

jeremyb.

> From: C Falconer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/30 Thu PM 12:10:59 GMT+12:00
> CC: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Xeons
> 
> I'm drooling at the mental picture of a multi-cpu xeon-based
> machine  I have a source for some xeon CPUs at about 600 MHz
> 
> Where can I find a system board to suit several of these?
> 
> Do they need special PSUs?  (probably depends on the board and the
> number of CPUs)
> 
> What is SWTX as a board form-factor?
> 
> Probably most importantly, how well would linux run on a SMP xeon?
> 
> 
> 

Re: Xeons

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

As far as finding a motherboard goes, talk to Insite,
they sell Intel server boards among other things which
you should be able to get a dual xeon board, they'll 
use a standard PSU, but will have special regulators
most likely on the board or as a module for the chips.

jeremyb.

> From: C Falconer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/05/30 Thu PM 12:10:59 GMT+12:00
> CC: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Xeons
> 
> I'm drooling at the mental picture of a multi-cpu xeon-based
> machine  I have a source for some xeon CPUs at about 600 MHz
> 
> Where can I find a system board to suit several of these?
> 
> Do they need special PSUs?  (probably depends on the board and the
> number of CPUs)
> 
> What is SWTX as a board form-factor?
> 
> Probably most importantly, how well would linux run on a SMP xeon?
> 
> 
> 

Re: Odd network ping problem

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

It could be having issues autodetecting the network
speed, can you lock the card down to 10Mb somehow?

jeremyb.
 
> From: Tim Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/04 Tue PM 03:10:35 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Odd network ping problem
> 
> 
> So,
> 
> while I'm downloading big files on my debain box I'm getting strange
> network behaviour. The files will pause downloading, and only keep
> downloading if I'm pinging something. The ping times are included below,
> and suggest a whole lot of ethernet packet collisions, but ifconfig (also
> below) tells me that there are no collisions. The times tend to go:
> 3s,2s,1s,0s,3s,2s,1s,0s,3s,2s,1s,0s
> 
> The network card and network were working properly...until I upgraded to
> debian from Red Hat 7.3.
> 
> Xircom Cardbus 10/100 ethernet PCMCIA card
> debain unstable
> kernel 2.4.18 (RH7.3 also used this kernel)
> 
> If I'm not downloading a big file/files, the ping times are normal (3.3ms
> av).
> 
> This doesn't happen at home, where we run a 100Mbs network. Uni runs a
> 10Mbs network. Could debian be misconfiguring my network card to be
> running at 100Mbs over a 10Mbs network (or something)?
> 
> tim
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~tnw13
> 
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
> 
> 
> 
> ifconfig data:
> eth0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:10:A4:AB:02:52
>   inet addr:132.181.15.64  Bcast:132.181.255.255 Mask:255.255.248.0
>   UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>   RX packets:25814 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>   TX packets:17747 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>   collisions:0 txqueuelen:100
>   RX bytes:35007315 (33.3 MiB)  TX bytes:1284616 (1.2 MiB)
>   Interrupt:9 Base address:0x4000
> 
> irlan0Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:00:00:00:00:00
>   inet addr:10.0.1.0  Bcast:10.255.255.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
>   UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>   RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>   TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>   collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
>   RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)
> 
> loLink encap:Local Loopback
>   inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
>   UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
>   RX packets:2 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>   TX packets:2 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>   collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
>   RX bytes:244 (244.0 b)  TX bytes:244 (244.0 b)
> 
> 
> 
> Ping data:
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=9 ttl=255 time=4672.8 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=10 ttl=255 time=3672.8 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=11 ttl=255 time=2672.8 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=12 ttl=255 time=1672.8 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=13 ttl=255 time=672.8 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=14 ttl=255 time=1003.5 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=15 ttl=255 time=11.3 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=16 ttl=255 time=58.4 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=17 ttl=255 time=2069.1 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=18 ttl=255 time=1071.7 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=19 ttl=255 time=1006.2 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=20 ttl=255 time=9.2 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=21 ttl=255 time=3482.7 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=22 ttl=255 time=3000.6 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=23 ttl=255 time=2000.9 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=24 ttl=255 time=1001.0 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=25 ttl=255 time=1004.5 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=26 ttl=255 time=11.5 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=27 ttl=255 time=53.7 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=28 ttl=255 time=3002.9 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=29 ttl=255 time=2016.5 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=30 ttl=255 time=2003.6 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=31 ttl=255 time=1003.8 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=32 ttl=255 time=16.3 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=33 ttl=255 time=3543.5 ms
> 64 bytes from 132.181.9.75: icmp_seq=34 ttl=255 time=2548.3 ms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: IP to Country Mapping

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I've used Visual Route on windows in the past which has
the ability to draw on a world map where your packets are
travelling on a traceroute, kinda cool and I see they have
a unix version available.

http://www.visualware.com/visualroute/

Looks like they look up the reverse dns on routers
or query their snmp or something similar.

jeremyb.

Linux just a blip?

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

http://www.computerworld.co.nz/webhome.nsf/UNID/94274A795C88EAA7CC256BD00079
F2F3!opendocument

FUD or not, interesting to see that they are preparing for the
eventuality so it's not entirely negative :-)

jeremyb.

http://www.jeremyb.net

Re: Re: Digital TV recorder

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Have a look and see if theres a linux version of tmpgenc,
I use this on windows to convert divx's and various other
formats to PAL VCD format so I can chuck it on a CDRW and
play in my DVD player, a 35Mb mpg music video is marginally
better in quality than VHS, scary huh!!

jeremyb
 
> From: Vik Olliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/10 Mon PM 10:11:26 GMT+12:00
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Digital TV recorder
> 
> 
> I have the reverse problem. I've got DivX files but need to turn them
> into MPEG with audio.
> 
> Vik :v)
> -- 
> /"\  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  /"\
> \ /   ASCII Ribbon Campaign  One of The Olliver Family  \ /
>  X   - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail http://olliver.family.gen.nzX
> / \  - NO MSWord docs in e-mail  Public PGP key available there / \
> 

Re: Spare power supply anyone?

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Try reseating all your cards and memory, could be
something simple like that, worth investigating
before shelling out bucks etc..  :-).

jeremyb.
 
> From: Carl Cerecke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/11 Tue AM 11:16:52 GMT+12:00
> To: linux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Spare power supply anyone?
> 
> I recently had to return my borrowed power supply and get my old one
> back. The borrowed PS was working fine in my computer. My PS was
> working fine in somebody else's computer. Problem is, when my PS
> goes in my computer I get spontaneous reboots. The power cycling
> becomes quite rapid (every couple of seconds - I'm sure my
> hardware likes that). I've found that thumping the computer works
> sometimes, for a short while. Does anybody have a better solution?
> Or better yet, a PS I can borrow/have/swap/buy that will work?
> 
> It's for my children's educational needs after all :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> -- 
> Carl Cerecke, Assistant Lecturer|email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Department of Computer Science, |Phone:  +64 3 364 2987 ext. 7859 
> University of Canterbury,   |Fax:+64 3 364 2569   
> Private Bag 4800,   |http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~cdc
> Christchurch, New Zealand.  |
> 

Re: Linux games for little kids?

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Quake1, start them young :-)

Whattabout linux mame and some roms from mame.dk? heaps
of cool old (and new) arcade games.

jeremyb.
 
> From: Carl Cerecke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/11 Tue AM 11:08:52 GMT+12:00
> To: linux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Linux games for little kids?
> 
> I've got a 3 year old and an almost-5yr old.
> Can anyone recommend some games (educational or fun) for that age
> range? It's an older computer (PII 266) with a cheapo graphics
> card.
> 
> Cheers,
> -- 
> Carl Cerecke, Assistant Lecturer|email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Department of Computer Science, |Phone:  +64 3 364 2987 ext. 7859 
> University of Canterbury,   |Fax:+64 3 364 2569   
> Private Bag 4800,   |http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~cdc
> Christchurch, New Zealand.  |
> 

aic7xxx & SMP Kernels

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Hi All,

anyone managed to get this to work? just installing
an old digital smp box with RH7.3 and it appears the
driver is not happy at all, boots fine with a single
processor kernel.

jeremyb.

Re: Re: aic7xxx & SMP Kernels

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Thanks Hugh, I'll have a play and see what happens :-)

jeremyb.
 
> From: Hugh McColl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/11 Tue PM 09:06:10 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: aic7xxx & SMP Kernels
> 
> Hi Jeremy,
> 
> Just on the off chance your problem is similar.  I encountered a problem 
> with my dual p133 were NICs stopped working with SMP kernels when I 
> first upgraded from SGI-RH7.1 ( 2.4.3 kernel)  to SGI-RH7.2 (2.4.9 
> kernel) - whereas they worked when I booted up a UP kernel.
> I even tried 3 or 4 different types of NIC and drivers and none of them 
> worked with smp kernels. Just after it became available in NZ, I tried a 
> clean install of the standard RH7.3 release to a separate partition (to 
> eliminate SGI xfs dependencies)  and encountered the same NO GO results 
> with the 2.4.18 smp kernel (2.4.18 up kernel worked).
> 
> I eventually diagnosed the problem to an issue when the on board APIC 
> was inuse. My current workaround is to disable use of the APIC using 
> append="noapic" in lilo.conf , which allows my box to run SMP kernels 
> again .  There is a BIOS parameter that I noticed later: 'PCI IRQ 
> Activated By'  Level .versus. Edge. I might try toggling this next time 
> I take my server down for maintenance to see if  I can get the APIC back 
> online with the other variation.
> 
> I got onto this by comparing boot messages between booting an  smp 
> versus up kernel. This lead me to do a 'cat /proc/interrupts' where I 
> noticed that NO interrupts were being generated/seen on for the NICs (ok 
> for other adapters/drivers) and also the use of the APIC for interrupt 
> sharing between CPUs .
> 
> The only explanation I have as to why earlier kernel versions worked 
> (without requiring the explicit "noapic" option) is that they weren't 
> actually using the APIC for some other reason.
> 
> So just as a long shot, if your smp kernel is attempting to use an APIC, 
> you could try disabling it to see if it resolves your problem.
> 
> cheers
> Hugh Mc
> 
> 
> Jeremy Bertenshaw wrote:
> 
> >Hi All,
> >
> >anyone managed to get this to work? just installing
> >an old digital smp box with RH7.3 and it appears the
> >driver is not happy at all, boots fine with a single
> >processor kernel.
> >
> >jeremyb
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Re: [nzlug] SuSE Mirrors?

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

If you can Yuri, try and hassle someone into updating
Clears ftp mirror more often, they have redhat and 
some others, but it's always a few versions behind :-(.

jeremyb.
 
> From: Yuri de Groot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/10 Mon PM 09:02:21 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [nzlug] SuSE Mirrors?
> 
> Thus spake V K on this Mon, 10 Jun 2002 :
> ] Perhaps we can persuade Paradise into adding it to their distro mirror.
> ]
> ] Volker
> 
> I'll see if I can find out who maintains the paradise ftp stuff.
> I only deal with the clearnet products myself.
> 
> Yuri de Groot
> Sales And Service Representative
> TelstraClear
> 0508 888 800
> 
> 

Re: Re: Commitment to Installfest..

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Just as long as you don't end up down the docks selling
your body to get the latest hit of mandrake or redhat
it's probably not too bad an addiction ;-)

jeremyb.
 
> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/13 Thu AM 10:15:17 GMT+12:00
> To: CLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Commitment to Installfest..
> 
> I prefer the term "distro-junkie".
> 
> "insatiably curious" is probably the most accurate.
> 
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

Re: Wake up call

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Shame it's not 021 you could use an sms gateway :-(

However doesn't telecom have some email to your phone
type service?  you could utilise something like that.

jeremyb

> From: Yuri de Groot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/13 Thu PM 12:09:14 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Wake up call
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to make my computer give me a wake-up call
> on my cell phone.
> 
> The idea is to let the phone ring for ten seconds then hang
> up. I figured a shell script something like this:
> 
> echo ATDT0252411993 > /dev/modem
> sleep 10
> echo ATH > /dev/modem
> 
> the problem is that when I echo ATDT0252411993 > /dev/modem
> nothing happens.
> I can do it from minicom.
> 
> I want a script that I can then put into my crontab to get my
> wakeup call.
> 
> Any clues as to how I can make this work?
> The modem how-to only mentions apps like minicom.
> 
> TIA
> Yuri
> 

OT: Coolest PC case yet.....

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

Undoubtedly, this would make the coolest linux box ever!
 
http://www.g-news.ch/articles/nhp200nc/

jeremyb.

Re: Re: Wake up call

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

The email probably would, but theres plenty of free
sms sites on the net :-)

jeremyb.
 
> From: Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/13 Thu PM 03:14:35 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Wake up call
> 
> Those services cost money. The way Yuri is doing it won't cost anything,
> provided the hang up occurs before a connection is established. 
> 
> He is Dutch (I wouldn't normally make that comment, but he has said the
> same thing many times before :-]  )
> -- 
> Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

RE: firewall logs, was :Re: Apache vulnerability

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

There was a new vulnerability discovered for mssql a coupla
weeks ago, allowed execution of arbitrary code etc... all the
usuals :-)

jeremyb.

-Original Message-
From: Chris Hellyar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 18 June 2002 9:02 p.m.
To: Michael Beattie; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: firewall logs, was :Re: Apache vulnerability


Not really a Linux topic, but while we're on the subject of
vulnerabilities..  Someone obviously thinks my server is an IIS machine with
MS-SQL on it, as in the last 24 hours I've had 1210 logged attempts at
connecting, and my firewall logging is rate limited...  All of them from a
Chinese netblock.

Obviously something is rotten in the state of sql for someone to try that
many times..  Very odd though, as I've never run IIS.  Anyone else seeing
lots of these packets?  ie: is this script kiddies scanning netblocks a lot,
or does someone thing I'm running ms-sql?

They are tcp syn packets, dst port of 1433, largeish ttl's (104 - 120) and
48 bytes long.

Cheers, me.

- Original Message -
From: "Michael Beattie"

> On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 12:45:27PM +1200, Chris Hellyar wrote:
> > No patch yet either, Man the pumps!  :-).
>
> http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/apache-1.3/src/main/http_protocol.c
>
> Mike.
> --
> Michael Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people
> very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas Adams
>

Re: Re: Apache vulnerability

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

That really depends, since it was found by a reputable
source the vuln was not released until a patch was
available, same with the recent .htr problem with IIS,
eEye waited until the patch was out before they released
the details of it. (if you wanna get really picky, a
cvs patch isn't as good as a patch available for download ;)

This isn't really an open source thing, it's a responsibilty
thing, in both situations if it was found by a script kiddie
then the response times might differ, but not by much.

jeremyb.
 
> From: Zane Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/18 Tue PM 10:18:07 GMT+12:00
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Apache vulnerability
> 
> Although the patch is not a formal one I think that this shows one of the most 
> wonderful things about open-source software.
> 
> No sooner has someone found a problem with the software then the fix is up 
> within hours for someone who might be desperate for the fix. This is 
> unattainable by most proprietary shops probably even M$.
> 
> There is probably very little chance that an exploit can be written before the 
> fix.

Re: Re: Cyberdrive CD burners

[Jeremy Bertenshaw]

I second that, I've had an AOpen at home for almost a
year now and it's performed admirably, check out PCU
for the latest prices etc.. :-)

jeremyb.

> From: Stuart Johnsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2002/06/19 Wed AM 08:55:26 GMT+12:00
> To: Canterbury Linux Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Cyberdrive CD burners
> 
> Hi Dion,
>  We had one lecturer in one dept go out & buy one. He had to get it 
> replaced within a very short period of time. Here at the IT Dept we only 
> recommend the following brands of CD-RWs - Yamaha, SONY, Aopen or Plextor 
> brands. There are some other brands out there that no doubt work just as 
> well ( & there are also some real lemons!! ) the main reason we selected 
> these 4 is that we have tested them & found them to meet our requirements.
> You might want to try having a look at the Aopen CD-RW drives. They are 
> reasonably priced & work well (I've got one myself :) ).
> 
> Stuart
> At 22:01 18/06/02, you wrote:
> >Hey all,
> >
> >This question isn't exactly Linux specific but...
> >
> >I am looking for information on the quality of the Cyberdrive CD burners
> >  that Dick Smith Electronics have been advertising recently.
> >
> >My reason for asking is that I need something to burn my Linux
> >distribution to a CD (I have several hundred megabytes of debs sitting
> >on my 4 gig disk) and I am a school student (euphemism for "kid")
> >without much money.
> >
> >I was wondering whether or not these CD burners are of reasonable
> >quality, or are they cheap for a very good reason?
> 
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> | Stuart Johnsen  email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> +Senior Technicianphone: +64 (3) 364 2987 xt8991  
> | Information Technology Dept fax: +64 (3) 364 2332   
> + University Of Canterbury
> | New Zealand 
> + 
> | If the world didn't suck we'd fall off !!!  :D  
> + 
> | 
> + ? rotide liam eht htiw gniyalp neeb s'taht yugesiw eht s'ohw thgirlA
>   ^Q^Q ^C^C
> 
>