Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: so, peter, you want to accumulate the Glossary for us :-) Sure. It's the least I could do. What would be required of me? I just downloaded a snapshot (the last time I tried cvs it didn't work), so I'll have a look at the code (I'm not good at C or x86 asm though). A small start might be: -- I2C - Inter-Integrated-Circuit, a bidirectional 2-wire bus for efficient inter-IC control. See 'http://www.esacademy.com/faq/i2c/index.htm' for more info. Code examples(?): ... -- VID - Vendor ID, a way of identifying the hardware manufacturer. See 'http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/bus/PCI/infreq.mspx' and 'http://pciids.sourceforge.net/' for more info. A way of obtaining info for your hardware is through the 'lspci' command. Simply type 'lspci -n' in the console (or an xterm) or 'lspci -vn' for more verbose output. -- DID - Device ID, a way of identifying the hardware in question. See above for more info. -- Is this too dumbed-down? I would like some connection with examples, hence the stub in the I2C section. Any suggestions/improvements/critique/comments welcome. And as someone else mentioned that explanation of config options is needed; why not use doxygen (or similar tool), which seems a really easy way to document the code and outputs, text, html, LaTeX etc.? Best regards Peter K ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Peter Karlsson wrote: -- I2C - Inter-Integrated-Circuit, a bidirectional 2-wire bus for efficient inter-IC control. See 'http://www.esacademy.com/faq/i2c/index.htm' for more info. this is fine. And as someone else mentioned that explanation of config options is needed; why not use doxygen (or similar tool), which seems a really easy way to document the code and outputs, text, html, LaTeX etc.? Actually, when you build a target, you can then type make documentation and should get docs for that board. ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Peter Stuge wrote: Exactly right. But with the right flash memory on the mainboard you can use the operating system (Linux) as payload directly. Ok, thanks. I've seen this discussed on this list; dependent on size of flash mem. I'm not sure I agree that the bar must be lowered. Much of the development going on in LinuxBIOS is _heavily_ technical and spans across quite a few different architectures. It's not right or useful to force developers to work and/or communicate below their capabilities, and certainly not in an open source project. I would hate it if someone tried to do that to me. I really don't want to force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. My request/suggestion/whatever was merely what someone else suggested (programmer's manual etc.), not dumb-down the project as a whole, or forcing developers to hand-hold newbies like me... I apologise, if it came across like that. Maybe it's my english (it's not my native language). I do believe however, that all the technical prerequisite knowledge should be listed, so that people can get up-to-speed on their own. I'll try to work for this and I think that the wiki is a great forum. That's a great idea. And I also think the wiki is a great thing to have. :-) SPD is Serial Presence Detect, the name of an I2C bus between the northbridge and all RAM modules. Each RAM module has an EEPROM with more or less correct information about how memory initialization code should set up the memory controller for correct size and optimal performance. Quite frequently the information is busted. :( snip These are short for Vendor ID and Device ID. VID and DID (or PID, Product ID) are id numbers assigned by organizations such as PCI-SIG and USBIF to hardware manufacturers allowing software to identify hardware in a reliable manner. The ids are stored inside the device, whether it's PCI or USB. Also true for PCMCIA/CardBus. Ok, thanks again for educating me! Best regards Peter K ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Peter Karlsson wrote: Ok, thanks again for educating me! so, peter, you want to accumulate the Glossary for us :-) ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 08:05:06 -0700 (MST), Ronald G. Minnich rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Peter Karlsson wrote: Ok, thanks again for educating me! so, peter, you want to accumulate the Glossary for us :-) A tehnical glossary would be nice but one thing we _really_ need is a listing of all config options and what they do. This was (and still is) one of the largest hurdles for me. And its one of the things that Google won't find much on. I compiled part of a list for V1 and its in my FAQ I put out but V2 is all new to me. -- Richard A. Smith ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
Richard Smith wrote: A tehnical glossary would be nice but one thing we _really_ need is a listing of all config options and what they do. This was (and still is) one of the largest hurdles for me. And its one of the things that Google won't find much on. I compiled part of a list for V1 and its in my FAQ I put out but V2 is all new to me. If someone can point me in the right direction (in the source, I'd guess) to find all of the configuration options without descriptions I can setup a page dedicated to explaining them one at a time. Justin ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
* Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] [050302 16:28]: A tehnical glossary would be nice but one thing we _really_ need is a listing of all config options and what they do. This was (and still is) one of the largest hurdles for me. And its one of the things that Google won't find much on. Should this be generated automatically out of Options.lb? There is a lot of description in that file already. ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
* Justin C. Darby [EMAIL PROTECTED] [050302 16:34]: If someone can point me in the right direction (in the source, I'd guess) to find all of the configuration options without descriptions I can setup a page dedicated to explaining them one at a time. freebios2/src/config/Options.lb ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
listing of all config options and what they do. This was (and still is) one of the largest hurdles for me. And its one of the things that Google won't find much on. Should this be generated automatically out of Options.lb? There is a lot of description in that file already. Thats a good idea. What about adding a description section where this info is filled out. Then the config tool would generate some sort of text file in the target directory describing all the options that are set. You could perhaps add some dependency info in there as well. -- Richard A. Smith ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Justin C. Darby wrote: If someone can point me in the right direction (in the source, I'd guess) to find all of the configuration options without descriptions I can setup a page dedicated to explaining them one at a time. src/config/Options.lb What's nice is the format greg watson worked up is amenable to processing to produce html. I think this ought to be easy to autmoate. ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Richard Smith wrote: Thats a good idea. What about adding a description section where this info is filled out. Then the config tool would generate some sort of text file in the target directory describing all the options that are set. Makefile.settings ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
Ronald G. Minnich wrote: src/config/Options.lb What's nice is the format greg watson worked up is amenable to processing to produce html. I think this ought to be easy to autmoate. ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios I will get out my web programming hat to see if I can get that automated after I run out of other things to do. :) Justin ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Wed, 2005-03-02 at 08:41, Stefan Reinauer wrote: * Justin C. Darby [EMAIL PROTECTED] [050302 16:34]: If someone can point me in the right direction (in the source, I'd guess) to find all of the configuration options without descriptions I can setup a page dedicated to explaining them one at a time. freebios2/src/config/Options.lb I think another problem of the config tool is the syntax and semantics of the configure language. Most people have problem understand the keywords used in the language (device, chip, pci_domain). And the language is not context free neither (links - number of instances of a device listed). We really need a good documentation on the config tool. BTW, the config.g is really diffcult to understand too. Ollie ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Anton Borisov wrote: Payload is file that holds, for instance, LAN ROM, i.e. software responsible for remoting loading from server. It's just an example. There are FAQs (try to google) which explain much of your questions. LinuxBIOS (initialises hardware) - payload (etherboot,OpenBIOS, FILO etc.) (- operating system)? Ok, but that was just an example. Technical jargon explanation is still needed to get into linuxbios. For instance: http://www.clustermatic.org/pipermail/linuxbios/2003-March/002240.html This mail mentions SPD,VID,DID,I2C etc. Does everybody know what these mean? To get more people interested in linuxbios one has to lower the bars, and technical jargon is a major blocker (at least for me). And yes, I do know what i2c is, and I think I know what spd is (ram speed?) but vid did does not ring a bell. For anyone not knowing what i2c is I'll recommend: http://www.esacademy.com/faq/i2c/index.htm Best regards Peter K ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 12:44:23PM +0100, Peter Karlsson wrote: LinuxBIOS (initialises hardware) - payload (etherboot,OpenBIOS, FILO etc.) (- operating system)? Exactly right. But with the right flash memory on the mainboard you can use the operating system (Linux) as payload directly. Ok, but that was just an example. Technical jargon explanation is still needed to get into linuxbios. For instance: http://www.clustermatic.org/pipermail/linuxbios/2003-March/002240.html This mail mentions SPD,VID,DID,I2C etc. Does everybody know what these mean? To get more people interested in linuxbios one has to lower the bars, and technical jargon is a major blocker (at least for me). I'm not sure I agree that the bar must be lowered. Much of the development going on in LinuxBIOS is _heavily_ technical and spans across quite a few different architectures. It's not right or useful to force developers to work and/or communicate below their capabilities, and certainly not in an open source project. I would hate it if someone tried to do that to me. I do believe however, that all the technical prerequisite knowledge should be listed, so that people can get up-to-speed on their own. I'll try to work for this and I think that the wiki is a great forum. And yes, I do know what i2c is, and I think I know what spd is (ram speed?) SPD is Serial Presence Detect, the name of an I2C bus between the northbridge and all RAM modules. Each RAM module has an EEPROM with more or less correct information about how memory initialization code should set up the memory controller for correct size and optimal performance. Quite frequently the information is busted. :( but vid did does not ring a bell. These are short for Vendor ID and Device ID. VID and DID (or PID, Product ID) are id numbers assigned by organizations such as PCI-SIG and USBIF to hardware manufacturers allowing software to identify hardware in a reliable manner. The ids are stored inside the device, whether it's PCI or USB. Also true for PCMCIA/CardBus. //Peter ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Peter Karlsson wrote: To get more people interested in linuxbios one has to lower the bars, and technical jargon is a major blocker (at least for me). And yes, I do know what i2c is, and I think I know what spd is (ram speed?) but vid did does not ring a bell. For anyone not knowing what i2c is I'll recommend: http://www.esacademy.com/faq/i2c/index.htm so we need a glossary. Good point. ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 08:52, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Peter Karlsson wrote: To get more people interested in linuxbios one has to lower the bars, and technical jargon is a major blocker (at least for me). And yes, I do know what i2c is, and I think I know what spd is (ram speed?) but vid did does not ring a bell. For anyone not knowing what i2c is I'll recommend: http://www.esacademy.com/faq/i2c/index.htm so we need a glossary. Good point. ron Ron, Probably we should seriously consider writing the Users Manual and Programmer's Manual as I mentioned before? Ollie ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 10:32, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Li-Ta Lo wrote: Probably we should seriously consider writing the Users Manual and Programmer's Manual as I mentioned before? yes, it has to be done. ron Ron, Do I have to right to distribute my FREENIX '05 paper? If I can, should I put it on the wiki? Ollie ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Li-Ta Lo wrote: Do I have to right to distribute my FREENIX '05 paper? If I can, should I put it on the wiki? yes. ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 10:45, Ronald G. Minnich wrote: On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Li-Ta Lo wrote: Do I have to right to distribute my FREENIX '05 paper? If I can, should I put it on the wiki? yes. even the copyright is assigned to USENIX.org? Ollie ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Fw: Re: Documentation [was: new FSF campaign ..]
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Li-Ta Lo wrote: even the copyright is assigned to USENIX.org? yes, AFAIK you can still post it. I post all my usenix pappers. ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
