Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
I just built 2.6.0-test2 in 441kB with one IDE DMA driver and ext3. I have yet to try LinuxBIOS (waiting for some BIOS Saviors!), but it looks like I will be able to do quite a lot with my Tyan Tiger MPX (S2466N-4M) if I upgrade the BIOS chip to an 8mbit part. Doing anything useful with the 4mbit chip may still be a lost cause, but it does look like 2.6.0 has lost some bloat. Perhaps if some of us contribute more "embedded fat-trimming" patches we can make linuxbios+linux+initrd fit easily in a half megabyte. Jeff ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Joshua Wise wrote: > Ooh, I wish that existed in the 2.4.x tree... I am working on a 'linux as > bootldr' project for ARM (iPAQ specifically). Presently, our zImages are at > 480k, and we need to get them down to sub-256k (while still adding more > features!) Out of curiousity, how small have you guys managed to build > zImages for LinuxBIOS? > up until about 2.4.13, putting a kernel, small initrd, and linuxbios in 512KB was not that hard. Then it just balloned. ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > I was looking at the 2.6.0-test2 kernel tree today and saw new menu > choices under > > "General Setup -> Remove Kernel Features (for embedded systems)" which > looks like the beginings of an effort to strip out large though somewhat > optional features. For instance, the current choices include: Ooh, I wish that existed in the 2.4.x tree... I am working on a 'linux as bootldr' project for ARM (iPAQ specifically). Presently, our zImages are at 480k, and we need to get them down to sub-256k (while still adding more features!) Out of curiousity, how small have you guys managed to build zImages for LinuxBIOS? ~joshua - -- Joshua Wise | www.joshuawise.com GPG Key | 0xEA80E0B3 Quote | I akilled [EMAIL PROTECTED] by mistake -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/Mc35Pn9tWOqA4LMRAi+CAJ0TVjmLD3wn8nkshyJajUZmwL04RACdE+2d Hf84kNche1h0zJDM8WopiaU= =YxUn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
Greetings, It might be useful to switch to ext2 so the journaling code can be dropped. In general, a bootloader mostly needs read only access anyway. Might also be interesting to see how much network/socket code can be chopped out of a kernel/bootloader. G'day, sjames On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Jeff Noxon wrote: > I just built 2.6.0-test2 in 441kB with one IDE DMA driver and ext3. > I have yet to try LinuxBIOS (waiting for some BIOS Saviors!), but it > looks like I will be able to do quite a lot with my Tyan Tiger MPX > (S2466N-4M) if I upgrade the BIOS chip to an 8mbit part. > > Doing anything useful with the 4mbit chip may still be a lost cause, > but it does look like 2.6.0 has lost some bloat. Perhaps if some > of us contribute more "embedded fat-trimming" patches we can make > linuxbios+linux+initrd fit easily in a half megabyte. > > Jeff > ___ > Linuxbios mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios > -- -steven james, director of research, linux labs ... . 230 peachtree st nw ste 2701 the original linux labs atlanta.ga.us 30303 -since 1995 http://www.linuxlabs.com office 404.577.7747 fax 404.577.7743 --- ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Joshua Wise wrote: > Presently, the CLI is running as part of the kernel - not as a seperate > userland application (the reasoning being that we can use the kernel's driver > architecture - I have created a drivers/bootldr subdirectory for things like > that. for more, check out handhelds.org CVS - kernel 2.4, not 25 or 26.) more > info tomorrow - until then, sleep! :) OK, I am very interested in this. I'll take a look. ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > up until about 2.4.13, putting a kernel, small initrd, and linuxbios in > 512KB was not that hard. Then it just balloned. Ouch. Was there specific bloat that happened after 2.4.13? After doing a preliminary look over the kernel code, much of the bloat seems to be in the filesystem code... BTW, if you guys don't have serial console stuff yet (IIRC last I checked, there was no CLI for linuxbios - things may have changed since then, I've been rather out of the loop recently), we're working on extensible CLI stuff for ARM Linux As Bootloader that would probably be portable to LinuxBIOS. /me wishes that the flash block that we put the bootloader in was bigger :( ~jw, who is very sleepy after having spent the previous night hacking till 0330, and hence probably won't respond to any more email tonight. - -- Joshua Wise | www.joshuawise.com GPG Key | 0xEA80E0B3 Quote | I akilled [EMAIL PROTECTED] by mistake -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/MdnHPn9tWOqA4LMRAhqRAJ9GTRKVP4/5GmQUs6+tXvlN7DSYYQCfXKdL LKSyDAnuWdDWPpMu3EWypoU= =zA1m -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
Adam Agnew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I was looking at the 2.6.0-test2 kernel tree today and saw new menu > choices under > > "General Setup -> Remove Kernel Features (for embedded systems)" which > looks like the beginings of an effort to strip out large though somewhat > optional features. For instance, the current choices include: > > Load all symbols for kernel debugging/ksysmoops > Enable futex support > Enable eventpoll support > Anticipatory I/O Schedualer > Deadline I/O Schedualer > > It seems like pretty good news for the linux kernel as a bootloader route > that effots are being made to get the kernel smaller when necessary. Currently this is running about 60K-100K larger than 2.4.x even with everything disabled. But patches to shrink this are welcome. Eric ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > I'm interested. I assume this CLI is running as part of linux? Or is it > the pre-linux stuff? Presently, the CLI is running as part of the kernel - not as a seperate userland application (the reasoning being that we can use the kernel's driver architecture - I have created a drivers/bootldr subdirectory for things like that. for more, check out handhelds.org CVS - kernel 2.4, not 25 or 26.) more info tomorrow - until then, sleep! :) > This looks like a good area for cooperation. yep, look forward to hearing from you! > thanks > > ron ~j - -- Joshua Wise | www.joshuawise.com GPG Key | 0xEA80E0B3 Quote | I akilled [EMAIL PROTECTED] by mistake -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/MdxTPn9tWOqA4LMRAlDbAKCk73voq6zyaSLG/ykohE6vy9lGvgCeOuoh jVuhfjDOyf44AAoAfOONolY= =Dev9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Adam Agnew wrote: > It seems like pretty good news for the linux kernel as a bootloader route > that effots are being made to get the kernel smaller when necessary. good, because long term, that is still a preferred choice for me. ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Joshua Wise wrote: > Ouch. Was there specific bloat that happened after 2.4.13? After doing a > preliminary look over the kernel code, much of the bloat seems to be in the > filesystem code... the dentry cache was not a cheap date. But the bloat seems to happen everywhere, which is why it's so hard to slice out. > BTW, if you guys don't have serial console stuff yet (IIRC last I checked, > there was no CLI for linuxbios - things may have changed since then, I've > been rather out of the loop recently), we're working on extensible CLI stuff > for ARM Linux As Bootloader that would probably be portable to LinuxBIOS. I'm interested. I assume this CLI is running as part of linux? Or is it the pre-linux stuff? This looks like a good area for cooperation. thanks ron ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Re: Kernel in smaller ROMs, salvation in sight?
ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Adam Agnew wrote: > > > It seems like pretty good news for the linux kernel as a bootloader route > > that effots are being made to get the kernel smaller when necessary. > > good, because long term, that is still a preferred choice for me. Me as well. I think I want to see if I can get a 2.6.0 kernel to run on x86 without an mmu. Potentially that could be very nice size reduction wise. And to really get it useful I need to put in the extra work to get kexec into the kernel. I'm almost there, but I am currently distracted with freebios2 and the Opteron port. Now that there is a good general purpose solution to small 256KB ROMS. I don't feel bad about pursue a solution that is only useful for 512KB ROMS and above. A very compelling reason is that hardware is getting increasingly interesting, and needs more drivers etc. Though given how things are going I am half tempted to do things like write a mini TCP stack that is closer to 10K than 100K. Eric ___ Linuxbios mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
