Re: [IFWP] Re: ICANN President proposes end to At-Large public elections

2002-03-03 Thread Einar Stefferud

When pray tell did the Govt pay for my piece of the Internet.

I do not recall ever getting any funds from them to pay for it.

I sure would appreciate getting back my $70,000 spent on Internet 
stuff over the years.  Somehow I expect you are not counting anything 
spent by non-govt people to mount the current Internet.

Your arguments are totally bogus;-)...\Stef


At 23:06 -0700 01/03/02, Ken Freed wrote:
Examples are any nation on earth where the government owns the phone
company, India for example. I'm more of a free marketeer than a socialist,
to be sure, but by natural law, if the people rightfully own the government
that constructs the network of interconnected networks, like a city builds
roads that connect the private homes, this makes the Internet public.

Let me raise a related issue, mostly to gather information to educate myself.
Who can give details of development of Internet2, the next generation of the
Internet? Where is the money coming from? What about its governance?

Thanks for wisdom.
-- ken









  At 04:19 PM 3/1/02 -0700, you wrote:
  And outside of the USA, Internet development mostly was funded by
  governments.
  
  An interesting assertion. Can you back it up?
  
  First of all there really wasn't that much Internet development
  to speak of. In fact it didn't exists. Perhaps you're thinking
  of the ARPAnet.
  
  At any rate, the UUCP network, which remains larger than the
  TCP/IP ARPAnet, was larger then the arpanet and by the time
  they'r all merged into what we now refer to as the internet
  it was about 1996. UUCP was never government funded.
  
  
  --
   Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't
   change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
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[IFWP] FW: IP: Invitation to Provide Input: U.S. NAS Study on Internet Navigation the Domain Name System

2002-03-03 Thread Richard J. Sexton

(fixed)

Subject: BOUNCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]:Non-member submission from [Dave Farber 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]]   

Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:48:44 -0500
Subject: FW: IP: Invitation to Provide Input: U.S. NAS Study on Internet
   Navigation  the Domain Name System
From: Dave Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-- Forwarded Message
From: Dave Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 09:26:03 -0500
To: ip [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: IP: Invitation to Provide Input: U.S. NAS Study on Internet
Navigation  the Domain Name System


-- Forwarded Message
From: Alan Inouye [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 07:52:58 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Invitation to Provide Input: U.S. NAS Study on Internet Navigation
 the Domain Name System


For the IP list if you think it is appropriate...

==

ANNOUNCEMENT--PLEASE CIRCULATE

3 MARCH 2002

THE FUTURE OF INTERNET NAVIGATION AND
THE DOMAIN NAME SYSTEM
An Invitation to Individuals Worldwide to Provide Input to a Study
Conducted by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences

The Computer Science and Telecommunications Board of the
U.S. National Academy of Sciences (NAS) is soliciting input
regarding its study on Internet Navigation and the Domain
Name System (DNS).  This study, mandated by the U.S.
Congress, will provide analysis and advice for consideration
by agencies of the U.S. Government, interested international
institutions, and other stakeholders.  Studies of the NAS (which
is not a unit of the U.S. Government) operate under strict rules
to ensure that all relevant perspectives are considered and
to avoid undue influence from any particular stakeholder.
(For further elaboration on the study process, see
http://nationalacademies.org/about/faq4.html)

The demands on the domain name system and Internet
navigation tools are expected to increase in the coming
years because of continued growth of the Internet--in
terms of the number of users as well as new ways in
which the Internet can be used by society.  This study will
examine potential new technologies or new uses of existing
technologies that could support and improve the operation
of the DNS and navigation tools to meet these demands.
The relevant legal, economic, political, and social issues
will also be considered, because technologies related
to the DNS and Internet navigation do not operate in
isolation, but must be deployed within a complex and
challenging national and international context.  The
project scope and other information about the study may
be found at  http://www.cstb.org/web/project_dns.  At
this time, we are soliciting input  from the public worldwide
on the issues set forth above, including the specific issues
that are being examined by the study committee:

1.  The particular characteristics of individual nations that
are not being accommodated by currently-available
mechanisms for navigation on the Internet.
2.  The extent to which people in each country use domain
names directly (i.e., by typing domain names into a
software program as opposed to using a portal, search
engine, or clicking on a link provided by others) to find the
information that they seek on the Internet.  The committee
is interested in relevant data or published reports that
characterize this use.
3.  The technological challenges that inhibit citizens of
a country from finding the information that they seek
on the Internet, including the market (economic), social,
research, or governance constraints that impede the
development and deployment of technologies that could
overcome these challenges.
4.  Within the context of the project scope of this study,
the Committee is interested in specific comments on
improving Internet navigation and the domain name
system that would be relevant to any or all of the following
institutions, industries, or communities:  ICANN, IETF,
U.S. Government (U.S. Congress, National Science
Foundation, Department of Commerce, etc.), major
software or network service providers, domain name
registrars and registries, and other institutions or
industries (specify).  For each instance, please explain
how your recommendation would improve navigation
on the Internet at large and/or for the citizens of your country.

Please note that any comments provided to the
Committee through this invitation, including
your name or identifying information, will not be kept
confidential and will be included in a Public Access
File, and may be posted on our Web site and used
pursuant to our terms of use statement
http://http://www.nationalacademies.org/legal/terms.html.
Comments for each of the four issues should be in English
and should not exceed 500 words per issue; those portions
of comments that exceed 500 words or that are in languages
other than English will not be posted.  The Computer 

[IFWP] Re: Four more years?

2002-03-03 Thread Jay Fenello

At 2/28/02  02:47 AM, Richard J. Sexton wrote:
The problem, Jay as I see it, is this: can ICANN be reformed? I don't
think so - not with the people that are in charge of it now. Why are
they there then? Ira/the DoC appointed them. Why the DoC?
Because in the Inter-agency Domain Name Task force meetings 4
years ago the DoC claimed to have all the answers so when
everybody else stopped snickering, they told them sure, go run with
it. Why did the DoC want to run is? Large 3 letter corporations
lobbied to the tune of tens if not hundreds of millions to make sure
DoC got the ball. Follow the money.

Remember, this is still all under DoC oversight. ICANN has admitted
they're in constant communications with them just like they're in
constant communications with foreign governments - which is rightly
the job of the State Department.


Hi Richard,

Can ICANN be reformed?  I don't see how,
when it is a result of a political process
that is every bit as corrupt as ICANN is.

That's why I wrote:
ICANN taking over the Internet is not the problem.
It is merely a reflection of our current system
as it has evolved over time.


This has manifested itself into, once again, the installation of power of
a group, not of the community, over that community - In this sense
ICANN is just a recapitulation of the IAHC disaster; sero sum games
both. The IFWP consensus documents came very very close to this
whole group acting as a coherent one but big monied interests acting through
outside forces not really committed to the community it pretended to
be a part of couldn't let that happen and the thing was derailed faster
then Enron became a national laughing stock.

Kill the head and the body will die. Nothing will get done till the DoC
is taken out of the position of having absolute power. Or thinking it
does.


But the DoC is the result of a political
process every bit as corrupt as the DoC is.

What we have is a systemic problem, one that
can be described by field theory.  To fix it,
we'll need a comprehensive approach.


They had their chance, we've suffered 4 years of them screwing up
and I think that's enough.


Agreed :-)

Jay.


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+++

Jay Fenello, Internet Coaching
http://www.Fenello.com ... 678-585-9765
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