[WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Hello all, I updated my PHP Browser Sniffer script for Firefox 2.0 on Windows and Mac. Windows I have confirmed myself. Mac, though, I cannot and was hoping one of the Mac users on this list will confirm that your browser is shown. http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php If it's not, please reply with the referrer info so I can properly add it. IE7 is done, but it's been updated since the betas. :-) Thank you very much. Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG]
Yep. That's totally the trick. Just believe in the simplicity. Mark up everything beautifully and semantically - then add in the microformat class names. Nothing more to it - *honest*. It's true! I only just *got* them in the last few months after about a year and a half of hearing about them. I put my findings here[1], and some people have found it of some use. [1] http://www.punkchip.com/2006/07/quickguide-microformats/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] or the sender of the e-mail. It is your responsibility to protect your system from viruses and any other harmful code or device. This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses; However LMUK accepts no liability for any which remain. We may monitor or access any or all e-mails sent to us. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Report from my Mac. PS: Thanks for the scripts! === Firefox 1.5.0 on Macintosh Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7 == IE 5.2 on Macintosh Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.23; Mac_PowerPC) == Opera 9.01 on Macintosh Opera/9.01 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X; U; en) == Safari 2.0 on Macintosh Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/418.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Shiira/1.2.2 Safari/125 On Oct 27, 2006, at 1:53 AM, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello all, I updated my PHP Browser Sniffer script for Firefox 2.0 on Windows and Mac. Windows I have confirmed myself. Mac, though, I cannot and was hoping one of the Mac users on this list will confirm that your browser is shown. http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php If it's not, please reply with the referrer info so I can properly add it. IE7 is done, but it's been updated since the betas. :-) Thank you very much. Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG]
Emma:That's a great definition. One I recently used on my blog was very short, but seems reasonable to someone getting started... Microformats (the formal name for adding semantic, standardized class names to your HTML, essentially). -adamdarowski.comOn 10/27/06, Emma Sax [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep. That's totally the trick.Just believe in the simplicity.Mark up everything beautifully and semantically - then add in the microformat class names.Nothing more to it - *honest*.It's true!I only just *got* them in the last few months after about ayear and a half of hearing about them.I put my findings here[1], and some people have found it of some use.[1] http://www.punkchip.com/2006/07/quickguide-microformats/** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential andintended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyare addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] or the sender of the e-mail.It is your responsibility to protect your system from viruses and any otherharmful code or device. This e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses; However LMUK accepts no liability for any which remain. We may monitor or access any or all e-mails sent to us. *List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Got it for FF2...Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061010 Firefox/2.0Nice!adamOn 10/27/06, Charles Eaton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Report from my Mac. PS: Thanks for the scripts!===Firefox 1.5.0 on MacintoshMozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7)Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7 ==IE 5.2on MacintoshMozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.23; Mac_PowerPC)==Opera 9.01 on MacintoshOpera/9.01 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X; U; en)== Safari 2.0 on MacintoshMozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/418.9(KHTML, like Gecko) Shiira/1.2.2 Safari/125 On Oct 27, 2006, at 1:53 AM, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello all, I updated my PHP Browser Sniffer script for Firefox 2.0 on Windows and Mac. Windows I have confirmed myself. Mac, though, I cannot and was hoping one of the Mac users on this list will confirm that your browser is shown. http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php If it's not, please reply with the referrer info so I can properly add it. IE7 is done, but it's been updated since the betas. :-) Thank you very much. Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Thanks for the feedback. I got some good off-list feedback as well and have [successfully I hope] added Camino and SeaMonkey, as well as a future version of Camino and the up-and-coming Firefox 3. It's unlikely that the scriptlets would ever be needed for these, they're really meant for the oddball situation where one wants to return specific styles in a pinch for, say, an old Opera version or something, but I'm trying to keep it up-to-date anyway. Respectfully, Mike Cherim - Original Message - From: Adam Darowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0 Got it for FF2... Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061010 Firefox/2.0 Nice! adam On 10/27/06, Charles Eaton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Report from my Mac. PS: Thanks for the scripts! === Firefox 1.5.0 on Macintosh Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7 == IE 5.2 on Macintosh Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.23; Mac_PowerPC) == Opera 9.01 on Macintosh Opera/9.01 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X; U; en) == Safari 2.0 on Macintosh Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/418.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Shiira/1.2.2 Safari/125 On Oct 27, 2006, at 1:53 AM, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello all, I updated my PHP Browser Sniffer script for Firefox 2.0 on Windows and Mac. Windows I have confirmed myself. Mac, though, I cannot and was hoping one of the Mac users on this list will confirm that your browser is shown. http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php If it's not, please reply with the referrer info so I can properly add it. IE7 is done, but it's been updated since the betas. :-) Thank you very much. Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php What is the purpose of this script? Browser sniffing is an out dated and unreliable technique. Browsers has long had the ability to spoof User-Agent headers. Why are you continuing to promote its use in anyway whatsoever? -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] web05 and other web conference links
Here are a few, Donna:WebVisions (Portland, 2006) - http://webvisionsevent.com/I didn't speak at WebVisions, but I did a followup presentation for my company located here: http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2006/08/24/webvisions-2006-recap-my-presentation/Carson Workshops Future of Web Apps San Fran - http://www.carsonworkshops.com/summit/WSG meetup in London (how I found out about this fine list was listening to the podcasts) - http://muffinresearch.co.uk/wsg/(Each speaker's own blog has links to the presentation and audio... I have talked about that here: http://www.darowski.com/tracesofinspiration/2006/10/25/microformats-vs-the-semantic-web-big-s-big-w/)SXSW 2006 - http://2006.sxsw.com/coverage/podcasts/ There are a ton more, but those are the ones I've listened to recently.adamOn 10/27/06, Donna Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi everyone:could someone send me the link to web05 (that was in Australia) and perhaps other more recent conferences.Looking forexamples of using podcasts and also how people ended up putting theirsupporting materials on the web (i.e. power point slides, that sort of thing).I have listened to most of the web05 podcasts and really enjoyed thembut downloaded them way back and can't find the link again.Okay,maybe I'm lazy, and could probably find it but other people might be interested in re-visiting it anyway.many thanksDonna--Donna JonesPortland, Maine207 772 0266http://www.westendwebs.com/*** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Promoting it's use, Lachlan? For crying out loud, it's my experiments site where I fool around with stuff. I'm not telling anyone to use this stuff. Frankly, based on the number of feed subscribers I have I'm surprised it's as popular as it is. It was never meant to be anything more than a playground for my own use. I owned the domain name so I decided to put it to some use. Of course all of this is written on the site so I'm really just repeating myself. I did add some content as it pertains to trying to make the stuff on there forward compatible and accessible when I realized people were following the content. I do try to make quality experiments. And people are welcome to use them if they want. That said, I don't see where detecting OSs/browsers to deliver a specific styles in a pinch using PHP is outdated. It seems to me it's a quick and easy solution if someone gets stuck as I describe on the script text page and in the summary. As far as people spoofing browsers, I suppose if some cracker doesn't get the right style info I won't be too worried about it. It's not meant to support a security function at all. I do have one script on the site that does have a security function (hiding email) but due to browser spoofing I write in no uncertain terms that it shouldn't be relied upon (even through I've never gotten a single spam email on that address since I posted it -- knock on wood). Regarding the purpose of the script: I state why I made it and what it's used for right on the site. Please read that instead of making me write it again. That would save us both some time and not waste the time of the list subscribers. I know I'm busy and really lack the time and energy to defend my having an experiments site on the web and trying to learn stuff. I know you're a real popular man, and all that, but you seem to come across aggressively at times. I really have no appreciation for that. I asked for a quick favor from the members to check something because I'm not a Mac user, I got a response, then returned with a thank you. This doesn't really have to turn into some argument does it? Respectfully, Mike Cherim - Original Message - From: Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0 Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: http://mikecherim.com/experiments/php_browser_sniffer.php What is the purpose of this script? Browser sniffing is an out dated and unreliable technique. Browsers has long had the ability to spoof User-Agent headers. Why are you continuing to promote its use in anyway whatsoever? -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] web05 and other web conference links
Hi everyone: could someone send me the link to web05 (that was in Australia) and perhaps other more recent conferences. Looking for examples of using podcasts and also how people ended up putting their supporting materials on the web (i.e. power point slides, that sort of thing). From Webstock: http://www.webstock.org.nz/recordings.php Regards Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Ozewai2005 fork
Howdy WSG, After reading Mr Weakley http://www.usability.com.au/resources/ozewai2005/, I was wondering for one of my work if this could be a true way to dynamic add the following modification for example : Original Reference : http://www.usability.com.au/resources/ozewai2005/sample/index.htm h2 class="structurelabel" Site navigation /h2 ul id="sitenav" lia href=""Home/a/li lia href=""Water birds/a/li lia href=""Land birds/a/li lia href=""Urban birds/a/li /ul h2 class="structurelabel" Water birds navigation /h2 ol id="secondarynav" listronga id="birds01"Australian Pelican span class="offleft"Here you are/span/a/strong/li lia href=""Black Swan/a/li lia href=""Little Pied Cormorant/a/li lia href=""Purple Swamphen/a/li lia href=""Musk Duck/a/li /ul If this is true, I suppose I'm not creating a new method. Can anyone link me a reference please ? Cheers, _ Pierre-Henri Lavigne Cell Phone: +33618753267 http://www.getphuture.com Some exist through what they do... We exist through what we are ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] Ozewai2005 fork
Hi Pierre-Henri , That's an interesting idea. I haven't seen it used before but there is rarely anything new under the sun ;) I agree about the removal of the href for the current page. Simpler wording like Current page: may be better, but that is nitpicking. listronga id=birds01span class=offleftCurrent page: /span Australian Pelican /a/strong/li Like anything, always worth testing with real users to see if it is beneficial/confusing etc. Thanks Russ on 28/10/06 8:48 AM, Pierre-Henri Lavigne at wrote: Howdy WSG, After reading Mr Weakley http://www.usability.com.au/resources/ozewai2005/, I was wondering for one of my work if this could be a true way to dynamic add the following modification for example : Original Reference : http://www.usability.com.au/resources/ozewai2005/sample/index.htm h2 class=structurelabel Site navigation /h2 ul id=sitenav lia href=index.htmHome/a/li lia href=water.htmWater birds/a/li lia href=land.htmLand birds/a/li lia href=urban.htmUrban birds/a/li /ul h2 class=structurelabel Water birds navigation /h2 ol id=secondarynav listronga id=birds01Australian Pelican span class=offleftHere you are/span/a/strong/li lia href=birds02.htmBlack Swan/a/li lia href=birds03.htmLittle Pied Cormorant/a/li lia href=birds04.htmPurple Swamphen/a/li lia href=birds05.htmMusk Duck/a/li /ul If this is true, I suppose I'm not creating a new method. Can anyone link me a reference please ? Cheers, _ Pierre-Henri Lavigne Cell Phone: +33618753267 http://www.getphuture.com Some exist through what they do... We exist through what we are *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Thanks Russ --- Russ Weakley Max Design Phone: (02) 9410 2521 Mobile: 0403 433 980 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/ Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russweakley Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russweakley/ Sams Teach Yourself CSS in 10 Minutes: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/book/ --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Ozewai2005 fork
Hello Pierre, I'm certainly a fan of that technique. I've used it on a few sites. More often than not, though, I simply provide a marker as a visual indicator when styles aren't supported. Such can be seen on the last site I did [1] where I mark the non-anchor with larr; [1] http://myrnamunroe.org/ I've done that with anchors though as well such as on few sites I've done [2, 3]. [2] http://thompsoncenterassoc.org/ [3] http://graybit.com/ Then I've done another technique with anchors using an image and then one layer down some alt text [4]. This probably isn't a great method, but it is a rather old site... (was my first go at an elastic design). [4] http://gbhxonline.com/ Something similar I also did at Accessites with the style changer links (though I should have done the latter with script instead of how I chose to do it). [5] http://accessites.org/settings/#thechanger I do like the idea of using actual text because it not only provides a marker, but it does so with something that has more meaning than an arrow thus better serving a larger cross-section of users. Thus I like your idea best, or with Russ's abbreviated suggestion -- either way. Good job! Respectfully, Mike Cherim - Original Message - From: russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Web Standards Group wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Ozewai2005 fork Hi Pierre-Henri , That's an interesting idea. I haven't seen it used before but there is rarely anything new under the sun ;) I agree about the removal of the href for the current page. Simpler wording like Current page: may be better, but that is nitpicking. listronga id=birds01span class=offleftCurrent page: /span Australian Pelican /a/strong/li Like anything, always worth testing with real users to see if it is beneficial/confusing etc. Thanks Russ on 28/10/06 8:48 AM, Pierre-Henri Lavigne at wrote: Howdy WSG, After reading Mr Weakley http://www.usability.com.au/resources/ozewai2005/, I was wondering for one of my work if this could be a true way to dynamic add the following modification for example : Original Reference : http://www.usability.com.au/resources/ozewai2005/sample/index.htm h2 class=structurelabel Site navigation /h2 ul id=sitenav lia href=index.htmHome/a/li lia href=water.htmWater birds/a/li lia href=land.htmLand birds/a/li lia href=urban.htmUrban birds/a/li /ul h2 class=structurelabel Water birds navigation /h2 ol id=secondarynav listronga id=birds01Australian Pelican span class=offleftHere you are/span/a/strong/li lia href=birds02.htmBlack Swan/a/li lia href=birds03.htmLittle Pied Cormorant/a/li lia href=birds04.htmPurple Swamphen/a/li lia href=birds05.htmMusk Duck/a/li /ul If this is true, I suppose I'm not creating a new method. Can anyone link me a reference please ? Cheers, _ Pierre-Henri Lavigne Cell Phone: +33618753267 http://www.getphuture.com Some exist through what they do... We exist through what we are *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Thanks Russ --- Russ Weakley Max Design Phone: (02) 9410 2521 Mobile: 0403 433 980 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/ Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russweakley Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russweakley/ Sams Teach Yourself CSS in 10 Minutes: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/book/ --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: For crying out loud, it's my experiments site where I fool around with stuff. I'm not telling anyone to use this stuff... Woah! Calm down, I wasn't attacking you or your right to publish it, just questioning it's usefulness. Of course all of this is written on the site so I'm really just repeating myself. Perhaps I should rephrase my question. I can clearly see from the site that the intention is to allow authors to send alternate stylesheets to specific browsers, but when and why would that be a good idea, given that there are other more reliable techniques available? That said, I don't see where detecting OSs/browsers to deliver a specific styles in a pinch using PHP is outdated. Browser sniffing has a very long history of abuse. Traditionally, one of the major problems with it is that authors generally only sniffed for the 2 or 3 major browsers of the time and effectively ignored everything else, often with significant consequences for the user. Granted, it is possible to use it responsibly, but like anything, it can be, and has been, significantly abused. Newer and more reliable techniques are available for many things, like conditional comments for IE. In a way, CCs could be considered a form of browser sniffing, but, unlike sniffing the UA string, their reliability is effectively guaranteed, since no other browser supports conditional comments (except for NN4, but that used a different syntax). Besides, if you find yourself hacking for anything but IE, generally speaking, it's a good indicator that you need to rethink your approach. It seems to me it's a quick and easy solution if someone gets stuck as I describe on the script text page and in the summary. That's another problem with it. Because it's so quick and easy to do browser sniffing, it's easy for authors to ignore the real problem and just focus on a quick and dirty hack like this. In so many cases, a hack-free solution is available and is always a much better alternative. I know I'm busy and really lack the time and energy to defend my having an experiments site on the web and trying to learn stuff. Your experimental site is not the issue, you don't have defend it. This discussion just about the merits of one particular technique. I know you're a real popular man, and all that, but you seem to come across aggressively at times. My apparent popularity is irrelevant, we're all equals here. I really didn't mean to be aggressive. However, having re-read what I wrote, I can see how it could be taken that way, and for that, I apologise. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Ozewai2005 fork
Pierre-Henri Lavigne wrote:
/ul
h2 class=structurelabel
Water birds navigation
/h2
*ol* id=secondarynav
* listronga id=birds01Australian Pelican span
class=offleftHere you are/span/a/strong/li*
lia href=birds02.htmBlack Swan/a/li
lia href=birds03.htmLittle Pied Cormorant/a/li
lia href=birds04.htmPurple Swamphen/a/li
lia href=birds05.htmMusk Duck/a/li
/ul
Pierre-Henri,
I believe there is no need for a class attribute in there as you can go
with:
listronga id=birds01Australian Pelican spanHere you
are/span/a/strong/li
And style this element using:
#secondarynav strong span {...}
FWIW, I use em instead of strong
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0
Hello Lachlan, Thank you for your considerate reply. This idea was conceived one day when I had finished a site I was building for a client and it was pixel-perfect in everything... but then a bug reared its ugly head when I did a final test in Opera (8.5 if I recall). You are absolutely correct in stating that using a fall-back like this doesn't address the real issue: namely a broken style somewhere. At the time, though, I was frustrated. A solid fix for Opera broke the design in other browsers causing me grief when I thought the job was done-done. Everything I tried caused a nasty chain reaction. One of those Grrr moments if you know what I mean. I remember muttering to myself that *I sure wish there were conditional comments for Opera* (gotta hand it to IE for perfecting that). Since I'm aware of no other method used by Opera, the PHP browser sniffer was born and I could dish out a one-liner for Opera, fix my problem, and get on with my next project. I ended up doing a slew of them in the experiment as sort of a repository just in case. A last resort. _Most_ of my newer sites don't use any additional style sheets or hacks Either I've gotten handy with CSS or I'm just getting lucky. This was one of those moments I drew a four of clubs instead of the ace of spades so I grabbed the deck and dealt myself a new card. ;-) Respectfully, Mike Cherim - Original Message - From: Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] PHP Browser Sniffer Test for Mac FF 2.0 Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: For crying out loud, it's my experiments site where I fool around with stuff. I'm not telling anyone to use this stuff... Woah! Calm down, I wasn't attacking you or your right to publish it, just questioning it's usefulness. Of course all of this is written on the site so I'm really just repeating myself. Perhaps I should rephrase my question. I can clearly see from the site that the intention is to allow authors to send alternate stylesheets to specific browsers, but when and why would that be a good idea, given that there are other more reliable techniques available? That said, I don't see where detecting OSs/browsers to deliver a specific styles in a pinch using PHP is outdated. Browser sniffing has a very long history of abuse. Traditionally, one of the major problems with it is that authors generally only sniffed for the 2 or 3 major browsers of the time and effectively ignored everything else, often with significant consequences for the user. Granted, it is possible to use it responsibly, but like anything, it can be, and has been, significantly abused. Newer and more reliable techniques are available for many things, like conditional comments for IE. In a way, CCs could be considered a form of browser sniffing, but, unlike sniffing the UA string, their reliability is effectively guaranteed, since no other browser supports conditional comments (except for NN4, but that used a different syntax). Besides, if you find yourself hacking for anything but IE, generally speaking, it's a good indicator that you need to rethink your approach. It seems to me it's a quick and easy solution if someone gets stuck as I describe on the script text page and in the summary. That's another problem with it. Because it's so quick and easy to do browser sniffing, it's easy for authors to ignore the real problem and just focus on a quick and dirty hack like this. In so many cases, a hack-free solution is available and is always a much better alternative. I know I'm busy and really lack the time and energy to defend my having an experiments site on the web and trying to learn stuff. Your experimental site is not the issue, you don't have defend it. This discussion just about the merits of one particular technique. I know you're a real popular man, and all that, but you seem to come across aggressively at times. My apparent popularity is irrelevant, we're all equals here. I really didn't mean to be aggressive. However, having re-read what I wrote, I can see how it could be taken that way, and for that, I apologise. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
