Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Dan Bowling]

I am really off to bed now, but have you looked at this?
http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/


On 4/2/06, Alvaro Mouriño <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks a lot Peter! I will have all that in mind.
> Dan, I ment Free as in Freedom. Web Talkster requires Windows (R), but
> I am a Linux user. This reading explains better what I mean:
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html But thanks for taking the
> time to search it, I appreciate it.
> I've read that IBM released a browser called Home Page Reader, but
> it's privative too.
> I'll keep on looking.
>
> AlvAro
>
> -
> On 4/3/06, Dan Bowling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > http://www.freebstuff.com/web_talkster.htm
> >
> > I haven't used it personally, but the description looks like it would work
> > for you, and it is free.
> >
> >
> >  On 4/2/06, Alvaro Mouriño <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi List,
> > >
> >
> > Thanks to everyone for your tips, specially russ' clothes tip, I would
> > have never thought about it.
> > Mike Brown, your presentation is a great resource of ideas, thanks.
> > Dan Bowling, thanks for the link, I use w3m to check my sites with
> > text based browsers. I also develop having them in mind. For example,
> > I'm developing a site now, and my goal is to have a left column with
> > the menu and banners, but I want the banners to show at last in w3m.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dan Bowling
> >
> > 715 682 1401
> > http://www.northlander.org
>
>
> --
> --
> Por favor, evite enviarme archivos de Word o PowerPoint.
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>
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>


--
Dan Bowling

715 682 1401
http://www.northlander.org
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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Alvaro Mouriño]

Thanks a lot Peter! I will have all that in mind.
Dan, I ment Free as in Freedom. Web Talkster requires Windows (R), but
I am a Linux user. This reading explains better what I mean:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html But thanks for taking the
time to search it, I appreciate it.
I've read that IBM released a browser called Home Page Reader, but
it's privative too.
I'll keep on looking.

AlvAro

-
On 4/3/06, Dan Bowling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.freebstuff.com/web_talkster.htm
>
> I haven't used it personally, but the description looks like it would work
> for you, and it is free.
>
>
>  On 4/2/06, Alvaro Mouriño <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi List,
> >
>
> Thanks to everyone for your tips, specially russ' clothes tip, I would
> have never thought about it.
> Mike Brown, your presentation is a great resource of ideas, thanks.
> Dan Bowling, thanks for the link, I use w3m to check my sites with
> text based browsers. I also develop having them in mind. For example,
> I'm developing a site now, and my goal is to have a left column with
> the menu and banners, but I want the banners to show at last in w3m.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Bowling
>
> 715 682 1401
> http://www.northlander.org


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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Dan Bowling]

http://www.freebstuff.com/web_talkster.htmI haven't used it personally, but the description looks like it would work for you, and it is free.
On 4/2/06, Alvaro Mouriño <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi List,Thanks to everyone for your tips, specially russ' clothes tip, I wouldhave never thought about it.Mike Brown, your presentation is a great resource of ideas, thanks.Dan Bowling, thanks for the link, I use w3m to check my sites with
text based browsers. I also develop having them in mind. For example,I'm developing a site now, and my goal is to have a left column withthe menu and banners, but I want the banners to show at last in w3m.
-- Dan Bowling715 682 1401http://www.northlander.org

Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Peter Ottery]

hi Alvaro, re:
-> maybe someone with a little more experience in this matter could point
-> me some subjects I should/should not talk about.

I've found 2 things that will keep people interested,

1) relate the situation with web standards to something offline, in
the real world.
I sometimes tell a story about how i recently had my kitchen redone -
and the task of designing the kitchen was made a lot easier by knowing
that all dishwashers need a 600mm wide space to fit into. imagine if
some brands where 590mm, some were 610mm. Basically the fact that the
dishwasher makers had decided on a standard made my life much easier.
build a bit of a story around it. makes people step back and think
about the bigger issue.
see page 1 of: http://c41.com.au/wsg/sample2.pdf (yeah yeah, its a pdf)

2) pick a high profile example page that falls down badly in terms of
accessibility (make it clear that you are not attacking them and that
they are crap - yr just showing an example) and give some indication
of some of the primary things to take into account in regards to
accessibility. eg:

- check page 2 of that pdf.
thats the homepage of our prime minister in australia.
looks alright visually, and fairly simple to understand but then...

- check page 3 of that pdf (or visit the live site and turn off images)
which shows that if a screenreader was going thru that you'd hear
something like "image, image, image, image, image blah blah" before
you got to any content. a big concept conveyed with the 1 slide.

hth,
cheers,
pete ottery
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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Alvaro Mouriño]

One more thing, Mike, try this distro: http://kioskcd.com/
it boots and runs a full screen firefox. It's a great distro for a
stand or to distribute the slideshow.
Maybe others can find it usefull too.

AlvAro

-
On 4/3/06, Alvaro Mouriño <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> Thanks to everyone for your tips, specially russ' clothes tip, I would
> have never thought about it.
> Mike Brown, your presentation is a great resource of ideas, thanks.
> Dan Bowling, thanks for the link, I use w3m to check my sites with
> text based browsers. I also develop having them in mind. For example,
> I'm developing a site now, and my goal is to have a left column with
> the menu and banners, but I want the banners to show at last in w3m.
>
> Usually it would be like:
> Menu & Banners
> Content of the site
>
> But now I have to split the left bar:
> Menu
> Banners
> Content
>
> Am I making myself clear? Positioning is giving me some trouble, I
> hope I'll solve this.
> I'm looking for browsers that read the content of the site out loud.
> Does anyone know about them?
> Thanks everyone!
>
> AlvAro
>
> -
> On 4/2/06, Dan Bowling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I use http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html, a browser
> > based lynx kind of thing. It will approximate what low vision users will
> > often see.
> >
> >
> >  On 4/2/06, Alvaro Mouriño <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi List,
> >
> >
> > I'm a member of a local group called Debian Uruguay [0]. Several
> > members offered voluntarily to give speeches about any subject. I
> > volunteered too, in my case to give a speech about Web Standards [1].
> >
> > The point that I will emphasize is accesibility, and I want to
> > demonstrate this by browsing non-standards-compliant sites (and
> > standards too) with a browser for blind or low-vision users. Is there
> > any that is free? (free as in free software) I don't know any, so I'm
> > a little lost. I would like to know the choices available and
> > advantages/disadvantages of each one.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dan Bowling
> >
> > 715 682 1401
> >  http://www.northlander.org
>
>
> --
> --
> Por favor, evite enviarme archivos de Word o PowerPoint.
> Visite http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> ó http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.es.html
>


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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Alvaro Mouriño]

Hi List,

Thanks to everyone for your tips, specially russ' clothes tip, I would
have never thought about it.
Mike Brown, your presentation is a great resource of ideas, thanks.
Dan Bowling, thanks for the link, I use w3m to check my sites with
text based browsers. I also develop having them in mind. For example,
I'm developing a site now, and my goal is to have a left column with
the menu and banners, but I want the banners to show at last in w3m.

Usually it would be like:
Menu & Banners
Content of the site

But now I have to split the left bar:
Menu
Banners
Content

Am I making myself clear? Positioning is giving me some trouble, I
hope I'll solve this.
I'm looking for browsers that read the content of the site out loud.
Does anyone know about them?
Thanks everyone!

AlvAro

-
On 4/2/06, Dan Bowling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I use http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html, a browser
> based lynx kind of thing. It will approximate what low vision users will
> often see.
>
>
>  On 4/2/06, Alvaro Mouriño <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi List,
>
>
> I'm a member of a local group called Debian Uruguay [0]. Several
> members offered voluntarily to give speeches about any subject. I
> volunteered too, in my case to give a speech about Web Standards [1].
>
> The point that I will emphasize is accesibility, and I want to
> demonstrate this by browsing non-standards-compliant sites (and
> standards too) with a browser for blind or low-vision users. Is there
> any that is free? (free as in free software) I don't know any, so I'm
> a little lost. I would like to know the choices available and
> advantages/disadvantages of each one.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Bowling
>
> 715 682 1401
>  http://www.northlander.org


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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Dan Bowling]

I use http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html, a browser based lynx kind of thing. It will approximate what low vision users will often see.
On 4/2/06, Alvaro Mouriño <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi List,I'm a member of a local group called Debian Uruguay [0]. Severalmembers offered voluntarily to give speeches about any subject. Ivolunteered too, in my case to give a speech about Web Standards [1].
The point that I will emphasize is accesibility, and I want todemonstrate this by browsing non-standards-compliant sites (andstandards too) with a browser for blind or low-vision users. Is thereany that is free? (free as in free software) I don't know any, so I'm
a little lost. I would like to know the choices available andadvantages/disadvantages of each one.-- Dan Bowling715 682 1401
http://www.northlander.org

Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Andrew Cunningham]

Lachlan Hardy wrote:
May I suggest dirty sackcloth, preferably hessian? It really adds that 
'martyr to the cause' feel to your standards presentations


or will that be mistaken for the religious fanatic look?

Andrew
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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Lachlan Hardy]

Mark Harris wrote:

russ - maxdesign wrote:


A few tips I always try to keep in mind:
1. always wear cloths when public speaking


Dammit! That's what I've been doing wrong. I've only been wearing 
fashionable clothes! I shall staple some cloths together immediately...


May I suggest dirty sackcloth, preferably hessian? It really adds that 
'martyr to the cause' feel to your standards presentations

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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Mark Harris]

russ - maxdesign wrote:


A few tips I always try to keep in mind:
1. always wear cloths when public speaking


Dammit! That's what I've been doing wrong. I've only been wearing 
fashionable clothes! I shall staple some cloths together immediately...


-mark
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RE: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Herrod, Lisa]

Russ, perhaps you should try it out as you introduce the speakers at the
Sydney WSG meeting this Friday?

I will report back to list on the outcomes.

Consider this thread a C+S (collect and summarise) on standards and it
should get through...

Lisa

>-Original Message-
>From: Mike Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, 3 April 2006 11:07 AM
>To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
>Subject: Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech
>
>
>russ - maxdesign wrote:
>> Not sure if this is heading way ff topic. If so, I'll write to myself
>> offlist and give myself a stern talking to...
>
>it is with this email, so I promise it's my last and feel free to give 
>me a stern talking to :)
>
>> A few tips I always try to keep in mind:
>> 1. always wear cloths when public speaking
>> 2. face the audience when talking to them (for some reason 
>this can engage
>> them???)
>
>See, for you Russ, and i *do* mean this in the best possible way, 
>speaking naked (without cloths on ;) would absolutely engage the 
>audience. I think you need to try this approach. I'm sure you, and the 
>audience, will be pleasently surprised at the results.
>
>Mike
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>
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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Mike Brown]

russ - maxdesign wrote:

Not sure if this is heading way ff topic. If so, I'll write to myself
offlist and give myself a stern talking to...


it is with this email, so I promise it's my last and feel free to give 
me a stern talking to :)



A few tips I always try to keep in mind:
1. always wear cloths when public speaking
2. face the audience when talking to them (for some reason this can engage
them???)


See, for you Russ, and i *do* mean this in the best possible way, 
speaking naked (without cloths on ;) would absolutely engage the 
audience. I think you need to try this approach. I'm sure you, and the 
audience, will be pleasently surprised at the results.


Mike
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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[russ - maxdesign]

> The last thing is that this is the first time I give a speech, so
> maybe someone with a little more experience in this matter could point
> me some subjects I should/should not talk about.

Not sure if this is heading way ff topic. If so, I'll write to myself
offlist and give myself a stern talking to...

I try to avoid any reference to:
1. The XHTML vs HTML debate (often ends up in fist fights)
2. Alien abductions (seems to reduce credibility to some degree)
3. American presidents past or present (or any President/Prime minister for
that matter)

A few tips I always try to keep in mind:
1. always wear cloths when public speaking
2. face the audience when talking to them (for some reason this can engage
them???)
3. if your audience falls asleep, throw things at them

The best pointers are probably Jeff Veens:
http://www.veen.com/jeff/archives/000483.html

And Dave Shea's
http://mezzoblue.com/archives/2006/02/27/speaking_ti/

A fantastic blog on presenting and presentations:
http://presentationzen.blogs.com/presentationzen/

Good luck with your talk!
Russ


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Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Mike Brown]

Alvaro Mouriño wrote:

I'm a member of a local group called Debian Uruguay [0]. Several
members offered voluntarily to give speeches about any subject. I
volunteered too, in my case to give a speech about Web Standards [1].

The point that I will emphasize is accesibility, and I want to
demonstrate this by browsing non-standards-compliant sites (and
standards too) with a browser for blind or low-vision users. Is there
any that is free? (free as in free software) I don't know any, so I'm
a little lost. I would like to know the choices available and
advantages/disadvantages of each one.

The last thing is that this is the first time I give a speech, so
maybe someone with a little more experience in this matter could point
me some subjects I should/should not talk about.


Hi Alvaro

I gave a talk just under a year ago on web standards. It's up here:

and may give you some ideas.

It's best viewed in something like Firefox and in full-screen mode 
(F11). If you print it out, or print preview, you can also see my 
speaking notes.


Hope it might be of some use :)

Mike
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[WSG] Web Standards Speech

[Alvaro Mouriño]

Hi List,

I'm a member of a local group called Debian Uruguay [0]. Several
members offered voluntarily to give speeches about any subject. I
volunteered too, in my case to give a speech about Web Standards [1].

The point that I will emphasize is accesibility, and I want to
demonstrate this by browsing non-standards-compliant sites (and
standards too) with a browser for blind or low-vision users. Is there
any that is free? (free as in free software) I don't know any, so I'm
a little lost. I would like to know the choices available and
advantages/disadvantages of each one.

The last thing is that this is the first time I give a speech, so
maybe someone with a little more experience in this matter could point
me some subjects I should/should not talk about.

Thanks for taking time to read this.

AlvAro

[0] http://www.debianuruguay.org/
[1] http://wiki.debianuruguay.org/index.php/Charlas#Est.E1ndares_Web

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