RE: spare memory
Apologies.. Did not mean to reply to the list. R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hodgkinson Sent: 31 August 2008 18:47 To: London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers Subject: spare memory I just upgraded my macbook to 4G and thus have two memory chip doofer thingies spare. 2x512M, PC2-5300S-555-12 or somesuch. Any use to anyone? -- Dave HodgkinsonMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Site: http://www.davehodgkinson.com UK: +44 7768 49020 Blog: http://davehodg.blogspot.comNL: +31 654 982906 Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehodg NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does not intend to waive confidentiality or privilege. Use of this email is prohibited when received in error.
RE: spare memory
Hi Dave, If you've still got these, I would probably be interested. Cheers, Rafiq Gemmail Morgan Stanley | Technology 25 Cabot Square | Canary Wharf | Floor 03 London, E14 4QA Phone: +44 20 7677-2923 [EMAIL PROTECTED] BE CARBON CONSCIOUS. PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS E-MAIL. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hodgkinson Sent: 31 August 2008 18:47 To: London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers Subject: spare memory I just upgraded my macbook to 4G and thus have two memory chip doofer thingies spare. 2x512M, PC2-5300S-555-12 or somesuch. Any use to anyone? -- Dave HodgkinsonMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Site: http://www.davehodgkinson.com UK: +44 7768 49020 Blog: http://davehodg.blogspot.comNL: +31 654 982906 Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehodg NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does not intend to waive confidentiality or privilege. Use of this email is prohibited when received in error.
Re: spare memory
Someone got first dibs On 2 Sep 2008, at 11:40, Gemmail, Rafiq (IT) wrote: Hi Dave, If you've still got these, I would probably be interested. Cheers, Rafiq Gemmail Morgan Stanley | Technology 25 Cabot Square | Canary Wharf | Floor 03 London, E14 4QA Phone: +44 20 7677-2923 [EMAIL PROTECTED] BE CARBON CONSCIOUS. PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS E-MAIL. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hodgkinson Sent: 31 August 2008 18:47 To: London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers Subject: spare memory I just upgraded my macbook to 4G and thus have two memory chip doofer thingies spare. 2x512M, PC2-5300S-555-12 or somesuch. Any use to anyone? -- Dave HodgkinsonMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Site: http://www.davehodgkinson.com UK: +44 7768 49020 Blog: http://davehodg.blogspot.comNL: +31 654 982906 Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehodg NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does not intend to waive confidentiality or privilege. Use of this email is prohibited when received in error. -- Dave HodgkinsonMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Site: http://www.davehodgkinson.com UK: +44 7768 49020 Blog: http://davehodg.blogspot.comNL: +31 654 982906 Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehodg
Re: spare memory
On 2 Sep 2008, at 12:26, Denny wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 12:16 +0100, Nic Gibson wrote: I'm about to upgrade a macbook pro to 4gig and a macbook to 2g so I'll have some RAM spare in a day or two if anyone wants (I can drop it in the post or, if you're near ShellMex House, 80 Strand, I can hand it over). I don't remember what's in the MacBook (bar it having 1 Gig right now) I will either have 3 x 1gig DDR2 PC2-5300 SODIMMS or 2 x 1Gig and 2 x 512Meg This might be a stupid question, but why don't you put the MBP RAM into the MB? Because I didn't have to pay for the new RAM - it was inherited. So, some was spare whatever happened. nic
[permanent job advert] Perl developer with DBIx::Class and Catalyst skills
Hi there, Sorry to use the list for this, I thought someone without a job (or bored to death) could be interested... Exponential-e (see http://www.exponential-e.com) needs a developer with the following skills: *MUST* Perl (goes without saying...) DBIx::Class Catalyst MVC *PREFERED* MySQL Linux (Ubuntu, Debian) Sysadmin The role sits between junior and senior, someone with about 2years experience is probably best. __ STRICTLY NO AGENCY __ Talk to me directly for details: livio_theATsign_ravetto.org __ STRICTLY NO AGENCY __
Freeish computer equipment
Hey, at least it's not a job advert. A friend of mine in Boston sent me this today. His company wants a colo rack cleared at no expense to itself. If you're interested, ping me and I'll put you in touch. -tara -- Forwarded message -- From: tara's friend Date: Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:48 PM Subject: Freeish computer equipment To: tara, mike Tara, Mike -- My company is soon going to shut down its colocated site in London. As we'd rather not send a person to London to do it, we're looking for people in the area who would like to get some free equipment in exchange for an afternoon's work. I figured that y'all might know some people of that description. If you do know people who might have an interest, I can send along more details. Here's the synopsis: What's required? * One or two trustworthy and relatively strong people * Means of transportation * Two or three hours in London (East Aldgate) What's the reward? * Most of the equipment from the rack (everything that's not worth the shipping cost back to the States): + Three Dell PowerEdge rack-mount servers, dual-processor, hardware RAID1, dual power supply, dual gigabit NICs, with mounting rails + A Cisco Catalyst gigabit ethernet switch with fiber interface card + Two six-foot long power strips -- great for parties! * It's all about three years old * Keep it or sell it, we don't care. What's the catch? * You have to deal with some irritating paperwork and even more irritating people to get to the rack (security, you know.) * You have to ship some cables and a network KVM back to us * The servers are somewhat heavy and hard to remove Anyway, feel free to pass this on to anyone you know who would have a use for this sort of thing.
Re: [permanent job advert] Perl developer with DBIx::Class and Catalyst skills
On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 13:34 +0100, Livio Ravetto wrote: Hi there, Sorry to use the list for this, For future reference http://london.pm.org/about/faq.html#job /J\
Re: [ANNOUNCE] September social - Thurs 4 Sep - Crown, Clerkenwell Green
Just a reminder, this is tomorrow ... On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 04:27:29PM +0100, Kake L Pugh wrote: Hello! For the September social, we're going somewhere we've not been before - the Crown on Clerkenwell Green. We have the upstairs function room booked from 6:30pm. There's no bar up there, but they do offer table service. It's a short walk from Chancery Lane station (Central line) and an even shorter one from Farringdon station (Circle, Hammersmith City, Metropolitan lines). Buses 55, 63, 153, and 243 all stop nearby. Maps, more info, etc: http://london.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Crown_Tavern,_EC1R_0EG When I checked it out last week, they had Westons cider, Adnams Bitter, London Pride, and Landlord on handpump, as well as Aspall's cider on tap, Fruli and Peche beers in bottles, and various lagers. They also, of course, do food - I only tried the whitebait, but on the evidence of that, it's perfectly fine. Standard blurb: Social meets are a chance for the various members of the group to meet up face to face and chat with each other about things - both Perl and non-Perl - and newcomers are more than welcome. The monthly meets tend to be bigger than the other ad hoc meetings that take place at other times, and we make sure that they're in easy to get to locations and the pub serves food (meaning that people can eat in the bar if they want to). They normally start around 6.30pm (or whenever people get there after work) and a group tends to be left come closing time. If you're a newcomer or other first timer (even if you've been lurking on the mailing list or on IRC) then please seek Greg out - we have a tradition that the leader of this motley crew buys the new people a drink (alcoholic or not, either's fine) and introduces them to people.
Re: [ANNOUNCE] September social - Thurs 4 Sep - Crown, Clerkenwell Green
s/tomorrow/thursday/ On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 02:42:37PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote Just a reminder, this is tomorrow ... On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 04:27:29PM +0100, Kake L Pugh wrote: Hello! For the September social, we're going somewhere we've not been before - the Crown on Clerkenwell Green. We have the upstairs function room booked from 6:30pm. There's no bar up there, but they do offer table service. It's a short walk from Chancery Lane station (Central line) and an even shorter one from Farringdon station (Circle, Hammersmith City, Metropolitan lines). Buses 55, 63, 153, and 243 all stop nearby. Maps, more info, etc: http://london.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Crown_Tavern,_EC1R_0EG When I checked it out last week, they had Westons cider, Adnams Bitter, London Pride, and Landlord on handpump, as well as Aspall's cider on tap, Fruli and Peche beers in bottles, and various lagers. They also, of course, do food - I only tried the whitebait, but on the evidence of that, it's perfectly fine. Standard blurb: Social meets are a chance for the various members of the group to meet up face to face and chat with each other about things - both Perl and non-Perl - and newcomers are more than welcome. The monthly meets tend to be bigger than the other ad hoc meetings that take place at other times, and we make sure that they're in easy to get to locations and the pub serves food (meaning that people can eat in the bar if they want to). They normally start around 6.30pm (or whenever people get there after work) and a group tends to be left come closing time. If you're a newcomer or other first timer (even if you've been lurking on the mailing list or on IRC) then please seek Greg out - we have a tradition that the leader of this motley crew buys the new people a drink (alcoholic or not, either's fine) and introduces them to people.
Re: Freeish computer equipment
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:57 PM, Tara Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, at least it's not a job advert. A friend of mine in Boston sent me this today. His company wants a colo rack cleared at no expense to itself. If you're interested, ping me and I'll put you in touch. ...and I've now been pinged. -tara
Re: [ANNOUNCE] September social - Thurs 4 Sep - Crown, Clerkenwell Green
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 02:42:37PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: Just a reminder, this is tomorrow ... please ignore this message for the next 12 hours? On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 12:01:02PM +0100, James Laver wrote: On 2008-08-28 11:54, Nicholas Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS I'll stick to the between the 1st and the 8th definition because clearly the dedicated member of negotiable beliefs will attend the pub on *both* the 1st and the 8th if the calender presents the good fortune of both being Thursdays. I wonder if we can also redefine other days to be honourary Thursdays ? Every day is an honourary Thursday? Or is this the new heresy? :-) Nicholas Clark
Re: [ANNOUNCE] September social - Thurs 4 Sep - Crown, Clerkenwell Green
On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 14:42 +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: Just a reminder, this is tomorrow ... You appear to have sent this a day early :-)
Re: [job advert] looking for a perl person to write a web control panel
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 09:39:51PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: And, in no way related to Martin, but related to software value, http://notalwaysright.com/thickheaded-as-thieves/739 We'd be delighted to send you a new registration code. For security reasons we need to post it. What's your address? -- David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive Wow, my first sigquoting! I feel so special now! -- Dan Sugalski
Re: Calling Conventions and Pass By Reference
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 20:18, Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What other subtleties am I missing? What are the pros and cons from a language and culture perspective? From an underlying implementation and internals perspective? From a culture perspective, it also depends on which classes tend to be mutable and which immutable. For example, in certain languages, strings and primitive-wrapper objects are immutable, so if you pass them to someone else, they can't muck around with them. (The only thing they can do is take the reference they were passed-by-value and make it point to a different object, but that won't affect your copy of the reference, which will still point to the original referent.) If certain things tend to be immutable, you expect less action-at-a-distance. Cheers, -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Calling Conventions and Pass By Reference
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 19:18:38 +0100, Simon Wistow wrote: A thought - what would the advantages and disadvantages of having only references in a language. I'm going to assume you mean low level referencing semantics (value aliasing) The downside is that, of course, you can spooky actions at a distance - I passed in this url to this library and it came back relative rather than absolute, wtf?. The workaround for that is to have parameters be immutable aliases by default, and only allow writing if explicitly asked for. Similarly all dereferencing of a readonly value returns a read only alias to its innards. It's the symbol itself that is readonly, and not the data. I suppose then you'd have to have really good, COWed deep cloning available which is not a hugely difficult goal (In general, I'm not talking about whether or not it's hard to retrofit into an existing language). I don't think so... The diff is usually that my $x = $foo becomes a binding, not an assignment. This is actually less work for the compiler. (in perl every assignment involves a copy of some structure into a new container) Thins like this: $foo = $foo . bar; no longer work in the same way. For 90% of the cases this makes no difference, but does affect referencing: my $x = foo; my $ref = \$x; $x = $x . bar; $$ref; # still foo but conversly you have: my $x = 3; my $y = $x; $x++; $y; # 4 IIRC python works like that. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpD0d77MEIIE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Calling Conventions and Pass By Reference
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 20:29:31 +0200, Philip Newton wrote: For example, in certain languages, strings and primitive-wrapper objects are immutable, so if you pass them to someone else, they can't muck around with them. In perl they are too, a scalar is a container not a value. $x++ creates a copy of the value in $x and assigns it back to $x The difference is that in perl we have no mechanism to refer to values, but only to containers. If certain things tend to be immutable, you expect less action-at-a-distance. This statement is true at much higher levels, too (e.g. object attributes, complex data structures, files on disk). -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418
Re: Calling Conventions and Pass By Reference
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 09:43:32PM +0300, Yuval Kogman said: but conversly you have: my $x = 3; my $y = $x; $x++; $y; # 4 IIRC python works like that. There was an interesting paper a while back [goes off to find it ... AHAH] http://www.cs.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/ about the cognitive models used when learning to program. Students are asked questions like a=10 b=4 c=a+b What is the value of c? And then a=10 b=4 c=a+b a=20 Now what is the value of c? For the first example, the answer is pretty clearly 14 but for the second the answer could arguably be either 14 *or* 24. I think most programmers are going to go with 14 but I wonder if a totally pass by reference language would cause effects that would mean that you would get used to it being 24. More importantly - if that happened would it even matter? Would old programmers have a problem with it but new programmers just adapt? Simon
Re: Calling Conventions and Pass By Reference
a=10 b=4 c=a+b a=20 Now what is the value of c? For the first example, the answer is pretty clearly 14 but for the second the answer could arguably be either 14 *or* 24. I think most programmers are going to go with 14 but I wonder if a totally pass by reference language would cause effects that would mean that you would get used to it being 24. Ummm, not unless the value of c is actually a representation of the expression a + b that is dynamically re-interpreted each time you read it. Otherwise, even in a reference-only context, c was calculated at assignment time from the existing values of a and b. Randy -- Randy J. Ray Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Calling Conventions and Pass By Reference
On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 20:13 +0100, Simon Wistow wrote: On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 09:43:32PM +0300, Yuval Kogman said: but conversly you have: my $x = 3; my $y = $x; $x++; $y; # 4 IIRC python works like that. There was an interesting paper a while back [goes off to find it ... AHAH] http://www.cs.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/ about the cognitive models used when learning to program. Students are asked questions like a=10 b=4 c=a+b What is the value of c? And then a=10 b=4 c=a+b a=20 Now what is the value of c? For the first example, the answer is pretty clearly 14 but for the second the answer could arguably be either 14 *or* 24. I think most programmers are going to go with 14 but I wonder if a totally pass by reference language would cause effects that would mean that you would get used to it being 24. I think that you are confusing call by reference with call by name. With call by name every parameter is actually a subroutine that evaluates the parameter when you use it, as in Algol 60 of blessed memory.
Re: Calling Conventions and Pass By Reference
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 09:07:18PM +0100, Raphael Mankin said:
I think that you are confusing call by reference with call by name. With
call by name every parameter is actually a subroutine that evaluates the
parameter when you use it, as in Algol 60 of blessed memory.
Sorry, I was being a little confusing.
What I meant to get across was that most programmers think the first way
(c doesn't change even when a or b does).
What pass by reference could do is make it much more common to have bugs
where you accidentally change something out from under your caller, for
example (albeit contrived)
my $url = get_url();
check_mirrors_of_url($url);
sub check_mirrors_of_url($url) {
my $check = true;
for ($mirror in get_mirrors()) {
$url-host = $mirror; # BZZT! Should have cloned first
$check = HEAD($url);
}
}
print $url-host; # last mirror, not original
Which will start to lead to defensive programming like
my $tmp = $url-clone;
check_mirrors_of_url($tmp);
which is an awful waste.
Re: Calling Conventions and Pass By Reference
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 20:13:12 +0100, Simon Wistow wrote: For the first example, the answer is pretty clearly 14 but for the second the answer could arguably be either 14 *or* 24. ... More importantly - if that happened would it even matter? Would old programmers have a problem with it but new programmers just adapt? Functional Reactive Programming is the paradigm in which this *is* true. Every value is conceptually an infinite stream of values, so e.g. writing a clock widget amounts to assigning the output of some formatting function applied to $time, into a GUI widget. The system will reevaluate on any change. Of course smart FRP systems use static analysis to figure out in which cases this can be optimized, and then you wind up with something that works kind of like traditional GUI bindings under the hood, but with none of the programming effort. Unfortunately not many implementations exist, as this is extremely hard to plug into an existing system. I think DrScheme's is the only real implementation I know. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418
Re: Calling Conventions and Pass By Reference
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 00:35:01 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote:
Every value is conceptually an infinite stream of values, so e.g.
writing a clock widget amounts to assigning the output of some
formatting function applied to $time, into a GUI widget. The system
will reevaluate on any change.
I should explain that $time is a variable representing the current
value of some clock, i suppose a bit like what you get if you use
TIESCALAR and then sub FETCH { time() } in perl, except that it
doesn't stop there, and this tiedness is propagated through each
expression the value is used in.
This transformation can be expressed by using administrative normal
form as the intermediate representation, and lifting every
expression applied to a stream value into an event handler that
applies its continuation on a change. ANF guarantees that the value
dependencies are properly resolved (it's related to continuation
passing style, but it's pretty inverted).
--
Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418
Kindness to the poor workshop organiser
Hey. Mark Keating, the Shadowcat MD and volunteer for London Perl Workshop organising this year, is going to be down in London tomorrow evening and it seems the friend he was going to meet won't be around so he'll be stuck for something to do. So, any of you who want to bend his ear over LPW, I suggest you gather together and arrange to do so over a beer. Anybody who doesn't, bug those who do to pick somewhere to gather and drink beer anyway :) Or something. You guys work it out. I'm not even coming, so you can do what you like. Could even invite lathos ;) -- Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? Technical Directorhttp://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/ Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Want a managed development or deployment platform? http://chainsawblues.vox.com/http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/
Re: Kindness to the poor workshop organiser
On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 12:37:22AM +0100, Matt S Trout wrote: Hey. Mark Keating, the Shadowcat MD and volunteer for London Perl Workshop organising this year, is going to be down in London tomorrow evening and it seems the friend he was going to meet won't be around so he'll be stuck for something to do. Tomorrow would be Thursday, right? So, any of you who want to bend his ear over LPW, I suggest you gather together and arrange to do so over a beer. Anybody who doesn't, bug those who do to pick somewhere to gather and drink beer anyway :) I suggest that he goes to the Crown Tavern in Clerkenwell. Somehow, Kake had a premonition about his dilemma and has already booked him a room, and arranged for many people to be there: http://london.pm.org/meetings/locations/crown_tavern.html Nicholas Clark
