No more IP for you
http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. -- Luis Motta Campos is a software engineer, Perl Programmer, foodie and photographer.
Re: No more IP for you
On 20 Jan 2010, at 09:03, Luis Motta Campos wrote: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. So, there's still nearly half a billion addresses unallocated? Do I /really/ need to worry /just/ yet?
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, 2010-01-20 at 09:07 +, Mike Whitaker wrote: So, there's still nearly half a billion addresses unallocated? Do I /really/ need to worry /just/ yet? Absolutely yes. You need to be terrified or you wont go our and spend oodles on new routers and switches which have a half arsed implementation of IPv6. How else do you expect Cisco, et al to meet their sales targets? Seriously though the issue of IPv4 exhaustion is a real one that we either face up to now or accept serious consequences later. Excessively large allocations made years ago waste vast ranges of IPv4 and it's not likely that those will be recovered so Luis is right that early entrants to the market (and those who have bought them up) will have significant business opportunities soon while new entrants will be screwed.
Re: No more IP for you
Mike Whitaker wrote: On 20 Jan 2010, at 09:03, Luis Motta Campos wrote: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. So, there's still nearly half a billion addresses unallocated? Do I /really/ need to worry /just/ yet? Only if you planning to make some money out of the transition... :) Otherwise, I wouldn't bother. -- Luis Motta Campos is a software engineer, Perl Programmer, foodie and photographer.
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010, Luis Motta Campos wrote: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. Wow, I must have seen my first email warning of this peril almost 20 years ago now (and I'm sure they were going around before then, too). I'll put a note in my diary to start worrying about it when I get a moment. the hatter
Re: No more IP for you
* Luis Motta Campos (luismottacam...@yahoo.co.uk) [100120 10:14]: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. Yes, become a trade represenatative for Chinese built big IPv6 routers. So, there's still nearly half a billion addresses unallocated? Do I /really/ need to worry /just/ yet? It's like 90% disk-full: the more you get above it, the more degradation you get. http://penrose.uk6x.com/ 592 days until Central Registry IPv4 address exhaustion (but I think earlier, because there will be a rush in the last months) -- MarkOv Mark Overmeer MScMARKOV Solutions m...@overmeer.net soluti...@overmeer.net http://Mark.Overmeer.net http://solutions.overmeer.net
Re: No more IP for you
Mark Overmeer wrote: * Luis Motta Campos (luismottacam...@yahoo.co.uk) [100120 10:14]: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. Yes, become a trade represenatative for Chinese built big IPv6 routers. markov++ So, there's still nearly half a billion addresses unallocated? Do I /really/ need to worry /just/ yet? It's like 90% disk-full: the more you get above it, the more degradation you get. Ahnnn... why? http://penrose.uk6x.com/ 592 days until Central Registry IPv4 address exhaustion (but I think earlier, because there will be a rush in the last months) The RIRs are working hard together (for the first time in many years, I guess) to prevent the last-IP rush. If they will succeed or not, that's to be seen. Cheers -- Luis Motta Campos is a software engineer, Perl Programmer, foodie and photographer.
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 10:03:41AM +0100, Luis Motta Campos wrote: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. The Mayas were right after all. The Maya calendar will roll over on the day the last IP address will be allocated. Abigail
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:07:33 + Mike Whitaker m...@altrion.org wrote: On 20 Jan 2010, at 09:03, Luis Motta Campos wrote: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. So, there's still nearly half a billion addresses unallocated? Do I /really/ need to worry /just/ yet? The problem is not so much that there's not many left, but they're split about in lots of little holes, with no heirarchy and no easy way to know physically where they are. A major problem with IPv4 addressing is that global IPv4 addresses have become simply names, not addresses. They do not give any information on where to send the traffic, simply who it is. You need a BGP router with a full route set to know where to send it. On our border routers at $company we're currently looking at 305,000 prefixes. Supposing an absolutely minimal implementation of, say, 5 bytes per prefix (4 address, pack prefix length and next hop ID in a single byte), that's still 15MB. More likely it'll take much more space than that.. possibly more than the, say, 64MB that smaller Cisco routing boxes come with. That's every internet-BGP-talking box in the world, has to have that table. And it grows all the time.. -- Paul LeoNerd Evans leon...@leonerd.org.uk ICQ# 4135350 | Registered Linux# 179460 http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: No more IP for you
On 20/01/2010 10:54, Paul LeoNerd Evans wrote: A major problem with IPv4 addressing is that global IPv4 addresses have become simply names, not addresses. They do not give any information on where to send the traffic, simply who it is. You need a BGP router with a full route set to know where to send it. On our border routers at $company we're currently looking at 305,000 prefixes. Supposing an absolutely minimal implementation of, say, 5 bytes per prefix (4 address, pack prefix length and next hop ID in a single byte), that's still 15MB. More likely it'll take much more space than that.. possibly more than the, say, 64MB that smaller Cisco routing boxes come with. That's every internet-BGP-talking box in the world, has to have that table. And it grows all the time.. Indeed, I suspect the ever-enlarging global routing table and consequent hardware upgrades have done far more for Cisco's bottom line than IPv6 so far. - Mark
Re: No more IP for you
That's 2012, right? There's a movie in the story, I'm sure of it ;-) -- Richard Foley Ciao - shorter than aufwiedersehen http://www.rfi.net/ On Wednesday 20 January 2010 10:44:22 Abigail wrote: On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 10:03:41AM +0100, Luis Motta Campos wrote: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unall ocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. The Mayas were right after all. The Maya calendar will roll over on the day the last IP address will be allocated. Abigail
Re: Pig and pub! (Emergency social called for)
2010/1/19 James Laver james.la...@gmail.com: I'm reminded of trying to fit an entire goose in the oven for christmas 2008. On christmas day, I discovered I didn't have a large enough dish and had to bodge it. And even then it barely fit in the oven. The problem with goose initially seems to be the size - but about an hour into roasting you realise it is actually all the amazing fat that drips off it. The sensible thing to do is have the goose in a dish with holes in that lets the fat drip down onto the spuds in a deep dish underneath. But that requires a big oven and so the conversation loops again... Cheers, Edmund.
Re: No more IP for you
On 20 Jan 2010, at 10:54, Paul LeoNerd Evans wrote: [...] A major problem with IPv4 addressing is that global IPv4 addresses have become simply names, not addresses. They do not give any information on where to send the traffic, simply who it is. You need a BGP router with a full route set to know where to send it. On our border routers at $company we're currently looking at 305,000 prefixes. Supposing an absolutely minimal implementation of, say, 5 bytes per prefix (4 address, pack prefix length and next hop ID in a single byte), that's still 15MB. More likely it'll take much more space than that.. possibly more than the, say, 64MB that smaller Cisco routing boxes come with. That's every internet-BGP-talking box in the world, has to have that table. And it grows all the time.. Serious question: When IPv6 grows to the same size as the existing IPv4 network, what is preventing it from also not having a similar number of prefixes? Hierarchical route aggregation is a good start, but no solution.
Re: No more IP for you
Richard Foley wrote: That's 2012, right? Well that's the olympics fecked then :p There's a movie in the story, I'm sure of it ;-) IPV4 runs out, world ends, actors get paid to much. Doomsday I tells ye. Mike Woods Full of squishy cynicism
Re: No more IP for you
* Peter Corlett (ab...@cabal.org.uk) [100120 13:25]: On 20 Jan 2010, at 10:54, Paul LeoNerd Evans wrote: On our border routers at $company we're currently looking at 305,000 prefixes. Serious question: When IPv6 grows to the same size as the existing IPv4 network, what is preventing it from also not having a similar number of prefixes? Hierarchical route aggregation is a good start, but no solution. The IPv4-space is heavily fragmented because everyone runs out of their allocated range all the time, to ask for a new and unrelated range. With all historical mistakes and policy changes, the IP space has become a mess. IPv6 offers much much larger ranges and much simpler renumbering schemes. The old mistakes are undone: enough ways to make new mistakes. -- MarkOv Mark Overmeer MScMARKOV Solutions m...@overmeer.net soluti...@overmeer.net http://Mark.Overmeer.net http://solutions.overmeer.net
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 01:25:33PM +, Peter Corlett wrote: On 20 Jan 2010, at 10:54, Paul LeoNerd Evans wrote: [address space fragmentation, large routing table] Serious question: When IPv6 grows to the same size as the existing IPv4 network, what is preventing it from also not having a similar number of prefixes? Hierarchical route aggregation is a good start, but no solution. Right now, if you need 1024 IPv4 addresses, you might get 256 here, 128 over there, another 128 from somewhere else, and 512 in yet another chunk of the address space. So four routing table entries. With IPv6, you'll just get a chunk of 1024 contiguous addresses, so one routing table entry. /simplification Sure, when IPv6 becomes 90% full (instead of merely IPv6 having as many allocated addresses as IPv4 does) the problem will arise again, but we'll all be dead by then so we don't care. -- David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing You can't judge a book by its cover, unless you're a religious nutcase
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 01:54:32PM +, Mike Woods wrote: Richard Foley wrote: That's 2012, right? Well that's the olympics fecked then :p Roll over won't occur before December 2012 (before Christmas). The London Olympic will be from July 27 till August 12. Abigail
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 03:05:24PM +0100, Mark Overmeer wrote: IPv6 offers much much larger ranges and much simpler renumbering schemes. The old mistakes are undone: enough ways to make new mistakes. The demand upon a resource tends to expand to match the supply of the resource., to quote the general application of Parkinson's Law. It may seem that IPV6 has a huge range to give out, but that is only going to encourage people to produce solutions where every light switch and light bulb in the world (and eventually every cell-maintaining nanobot in every human body) receives its own IPV6 address. Once the conversion to IPV6 is passed, the new address space will be consumed at a much faster rate than the old one. -- Bruce Remember you're a Womble. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: No more IP for you
Abigail wrote: Roll over won't occur before December 2012 (before Christmas). The London Olympic will be from July 27 till August 12. It's details like that which ruin a perfectly good joke :) Mike Woods Full of squishy cynicism
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 02:37:33PM +, Mike Woods wrote: Abigail wrote: Roll over won't occur before December 2012 (before Christmas). The London Olympic will be from July 27 till August 12. It's details like that which ruin a perfectly good joke :) I'm a nerd. I don't understand humour. Abigail
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 02:28:22PM +, Bruce Richardson wrote: On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 03:05:24PM +0100, Mark Overmeer wrote: IPv6 offers much much larger ranges and much simpler renumbering schemes. The old mistakes are undone: enough ways to make new mistakes. The demand upon a resource tends to expand to match the supply of the resource., to quote the general application of Parkinson's Law. It may seem that IPV6 has a huge range to give out, but that is only going to encourage people to produce solutions where every light switch and light bulb in the world (and eventually every cell-maintaining nanobot in every human body) receives its own IPV6 address. Once the conversion to IPV6 is passed, the new address space will be consumed at a much faster rate than the old one. There are of the order of 10 billion IPv6 addresses available for every atom in the earth. I'm sure there will be problems, but running out of address space ain't one of 'em. -- David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: No more IP for you
Bruce Richardson wrote: On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 03:05:24PM +0100, Mark Overmeer wrote: IPv6 offers much much larger ranges and much simpler renumbering schemes. The old mistakes are undone: enough ways to make new mistakes. The demand upon a resource tends to expand to match the supply of the resource., to quote the general application of Parkinson's Law. It may seem that IPV6 has a huge range to give out, but that is only going to encourage people to produce solutions where every light switch and light bulb in the world (and eventually every cell-maintaining nanobot in every human body) receives its own IPV6 address. Once the conversion to IPV6 is passed, the new address space will be consumed at a much faster rate than the old one. Well, RIPE NCC used to have a get IPv6 with your IPv4 allocation policy (can't find the document, don't know if it's still applies); Also, they're giving away /32 IPv6 as the minimum allocation size. http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html#initial_size This confirms and documents Bruce's statements about Parkingson's Law. Cheers -- Luis Motta Campos is a software engineer, Perl Programmer, foodie and photographer.
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 02:48:28PM +, David Cantrell wrote: There are of the order of 10 billion IPv6 addresses available for every atom in the earth. But what is the allocation policy? (Does the University of Cambridge still get more than 1% of them? Or some other organisation that seems terribly important now?) R
Re: No more IP for you
* Bruce Richardson (itsbr...@workshy.org) [100120 14:28]: ... It may seem that IPV6 has a huge range to give out, but that is only going to encourage people to produce solutions where every light switch and light bulb in the world... Actually, that is the plan, yes. ... (and eventually every cell-maintaining nanobot in every human body) receives its own IPV6 address. Once the conversion to IPV6 is passed, the new address space will be consumed at a much faster rate than the old one. With 2^128 address 1e38 having 1e10 people around, you still have 1e28 addresses per person. http://education.jlab.org/qa/mathatom_04.html says 1e28 atoms in a human body of 100kg. That cannot be accidental ;-) -- MarkOv Mark Overmeer MScMARKOV Solutions m...@overmeer.net soluti...@overmeer.net http://Mark.Overmeer.net http://solutions.overmeer.net
Re: No more IP for you
David Cantrell wrote: There are of the order of 10 billion IPv6 addresses available for every atom in the earth. I'm sure there will be problems, but running out of address space ain't one of 'em. Other way round. IPv6 address space = 2^128 approx 3.4 x 10^38 Mass of Planet Earth 5.96 x 10^27g (http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/earthfact.html) Atoms in Planet Earth (assuming composition 35% Fe, 30% O, 15% Si, 13% Mg, 7% Al by mass) about 10^50. So one IPv6 address per 10^11 -- 10^12 atoms. Which is bigger than some viruses, but smaller than a typical mammalian cell. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard, Flat 3 Black Earth Consulting Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW Free and Open Source Solutions Tel: +44 (0)1843 580647 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: No more IP for you
2010/1/20 Matthew Seaman m.sea...@black-earth.co.uk: Atoms in Planet Earth (assuming composition 35% Fe, 30% O, 15% Si, 13% Mg, 7% Al by mass) about 10^50. So one IPv6 address per 10^11 -- 10^12 atoms. Which is bigger than some viruses, but smaller than a typical mammalian cell. Which will be just fine until we want to correspond with the camels in the bio-dome on Mars. -- Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. -- Abraham Lincoln
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 03:46:04PM +, Dominic Thoreau wrote: Which will be just fine until we want to correspond with the camels in the bio-dome on Mars. That's OK, TCP timeouts aren't long enough for the lightspeed delay. R
Re: No more IP for you
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:26:32 +0100, Abigail wrote: On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 01:54:32PM +, Mike Woods wrote: Richard Foley wrote: That's 2012, right? Well that's the olympics fecked then :p Roll over won't occur before December 2012 (before Christmas). The London Olympic will be from July 27 till August 12. But if you'd seen the movie, you'd realise the Olympics must have massively overrun because they were impacted by all the disastery things going on. Who's going to break it to the Olympic organising committee? Dec 21 is my birthday by the way - so I have told my family I have to open my presents in the morning - and I can only be given things I can use in less than 6-8 hours. If the presents help with tsunamis, earthquakes, and volcano eruptions: it would be even better. Chris _ Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/
Re: No more IP for you
On Jan 20, 2010, at 6:28, Bruce Richardson wrote: IPv6 offers much much larger ranges and much simpler renumbering schemes. The old mistakes are undone: enough ways to make new mistakes. The demand upon a resource tends to expand to match the supply of the resource., to quote the general application of Parkinson's Law. It may seem that IPV6 has a huge range to give out, but that is only going to encourage people to produce solutions where every light switch and light bulb in the world (and eventually every cell-maintaining nanobot in every human body) receives its own IPV6 address. Once the conversion to IPV6 is passed, the new address space will be consumed at a much faster rate than the old one. A standard end-user allocation is, currently, as many IPs as the full IPv4 address space. The plan is to do it that way for the first 1/64th of the address space or something like that and see how that goes. - ask
Re: Weird IPC/Apache issue
Mark Fowler wrote: On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Matt Lawrence matt.lawre...@virgin.net wrote: In my limited experience, running any subprocess in mod_perl is fraught with difficulty Another option is not to actually run the process from Apache2 at all, but rather have a separate long running daemon that handles the execution for you which you hand off work to from Apache2, thus avoiding the need to fork at all. This is most useful as forking new processes is quite expensive and a bunch of unplanned forks without rate limiting could be used to DoS your site. Initially, I drew up a plan for a daemon-ish Perl module that would handle requests and filter the text through bogofilter. But the way bogofilter wants to run off of the command-line doesn't help the matter. It's not impossible, but it isn't easy (or clear, or even just mildly-challenging) either. I solved the problem by using IPC::Run, which works under Apache2/mod_perl2 as well as non-Apache environments. It's a neat little module (that I blogged about a while back), that does things in a nicely Perlish way. Of course, you've just asked how do I do this simple thing X and I've said Do this more complex thing to your architecture Y, but that's the nature of advice on the internet ;-) True, but it closely parallels the design I've already been toying with, so there is some reassurance there. At least I was thinking along similar lines (though I hadn't considered Gearman or other tools). Randy -- Randy J. Ray Sunnyvale, CA http://www.rjray.org rj...@blackperl.com Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org
Re: No more IP for you
On 20 Jan 2010, at 09:03, Luis Motta Campos wrote: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. I've been hearing this since 1996, when I set up a 6Bone tunnel and started providing v6 DNS and routing because v4 addresses will run out by the end of next year, tops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf
Re: No more IP for you
On 20 Jan 2010, at 22:28, Pedro Figueiredo wrote: On 20 Jan 2010, at 09:03, Luis Motta Campos wrote: http://www.nro.net/media/less-than-10-percent-ipv4-addresses-remain-unallocated.html Now, the IP Allocation Market will start warming up... if you're sitting on some IP addresses for several years now, I see big business opportunities for you ahead. I've been hearing this since 1996, when I set up a 6Bone tunnel and started providing v6 DNS and routing because v4 addresses will run out by the end of next year, tops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf Isn't it a case of wresting some class-A addresses from the like of IBM, ATT and HP and making them use pukka internal addresses for inside the firms? -- Dave HodgkinsonMSN: daveh...@hotmail.com Site: http://www.davehodgkinson.com UK: +44 7768 490620 Blog: http://www.davehodgkinson.com/blog Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehodg
Re: No more IP for you
On Jan 20, 2010, at 16:44, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Isn't it a case of wresting some class-A addresses from the like of IBM, ATT and HP and making them use pukka internal addresses for inside the firms? That'd help for a little while; just like whatever market will come up for IPv4 addresses when no more can be allocated from the RIRs will help for a little while. But really, we're running out. Yeah, not next month. Maybe not even when the predications say, but by definition before everyone's ready. - ask
