Re: XP-Replacement for Parents
+1 to this. As technically inclined people we want others to use Linux and have it be a viable desktop. Maybe in some cases it is. But OSX is a much better one, is very well supported, and also just works in every way that matters. She'll still have libreoffice available as well as a large assortment of other apps with shiny polished interfaces and buttons. Obviously it costs a bit more, but frankly she's going to need newer hardware sooner or later. That laptop won't last forever and even Ubuntu will perform poorly really. On Mar 27, 2014 7:59 AM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: Bite the bullet and get a Mac. On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM, James Laver james.la...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 Mar 2014, at 12:07, Alex Balhatchet ka...@slackwise.net wrote: On another topic if you want something that looks like Windows XP but acts like Ubuntu I've read good things about Lubuntu[2]. In this vein, many Linuxes ship LXDE now. My old favourite foresight does, but there aren't as many packages for it as there used to be, sadly. James
Re: Perl publishing and attracting new developers
Trolling aside, I've come to an understanding about this recently which can best be described thus: Peel has entered the Erlang stage of its life cycle. It is a very capable language, which became popular at a time when there was a great need for the things it provided. Since then it has seen less and less use in the areas of industry which have had the most rapid growth (mostly web development and operations). Ruby and php pretty much dominate that sphere. Python has a decent foothold in parts of academia. Also a lot of this comes down to money. Guido, Rasmus, Matz all push the developments in their languages as part of their day jobs. They work at some pretty high profile places too. Larry? I honestly don't know what Larry does. And surprisingly I could find out quickly either. Yes, a lot of banks and other places use Perl, and Perl is not dying as so many like to proclaim. But it needsa lot of push from the top, a lot of evangelism, and more, faster development. Otherwise people just kinda lose interest, you know? Perl is fine. I don't think there will be some great Perl revival but it's not going away either. On Sep 18, 2013 8:24 AM, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote: I don't mean to troll. In fact, to quote Stevan Little, I totally asshat Perl :) but when I saw this today: http://wegotcoders.com ... I couldn't help thinking Perl is getting left behind. A contributing factor seems to be the narrow range of Perl books published in recent years despite the Modern Perl renaissance. If you look at the number of Ruby/Rails/Sinatra and Python books published in the last 5 years compared with Perl the contrast is stark. There are stacks of Ruby and Rails books covering very specialised applications. Perl books, by contrast, tend to be just general tomes - Perl Best Practices, Programming Perl, Modern Perl, Pro Perl etc. We have one decent web framework book on Catalyst by Apress, if you discount the first effort by Packt, compared with stacks of Rails and Sinatra books. Take a look at these new, vibrant publishing companies: www.leanpub.com www.pragprog.com Not a single Perl title. Surely Moose, Mojolicious or Dancer would have been a candidate? Something's gone wrong. Is it that publishers are not interested in publishing Perl books or that Perl authors aren't writing about interesting and specific applications of Perl? gvim
Re: Perl publishing and attracting new developers
On Sep 19, 2013 2:39 PM, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote: On 18 Sep 2013, at 21:03, gvim gvi...@gmail.com wrote: On 18/09/2013 18:48, Peter Corlett wrote: Dancer and Mojolicious are lightweight, DBIx::Class only slightly less so, and are not separately enough material for a full-sized book. At best, you're talking a 100 page print-on-demand labour of love. I've come across no less than 3 Sinatra books so why should a Dancer book be considered lightweight? Sinatra is a library used for constructing web frameworks. Oh, and look, I see Lincoln Stein's CGI.pm book right there on my shelf. Sure, it's an awful book, but I bet at least two of those Sinatra books are as well. Mojolicious and Moose *have* such a book, and although I can't find the ISBN for the Moose book, Mojolicious's is http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/3848200953/improtripe-21. I don't think a book published purely in German is that relevant. People who speak Mandarin, Hindi or Spanish no doubt have much the same opinion of books published purely in English. [...] The and Perl makes all the difference. If I'm a new developer choosing a language and I see RESTful APIs with Python/PHP/Ruby and nothing from Perl it may influence my choice of language even if there is a chapter tucked away in a Catalyst book somewhere. Whether it's marketing or not, Ruby and Python are taking the initiative, as I see it, by producing plenty of books which combine the language with another technology. You may not like it but it seems to interest developers. I didn't ask which books you would like to exist to sit unsold in bookshops on the off-chance they might influence other people's opinion. I asked which books you would buy with your own money. As it happens, I own a copy of REST in Practice. I fished it out of my to read pile and given it a quick skim. The handful of examples within are in C# and Java, but it's not called RESTful APIs with C#/Java for a reason: this is a book about REST itself and some of the common RESTful protocols, not a programming textbook. That you apparently desire this book to also include a tutorial on the various Perl APIs so as to spoon-feed the exact answers says more about you and/or your opinion of other developers than the state of the Perl publishing market. Well hold on just a minute there. One of the primary reasons Perl got to be hugely popular is exactly because books like Programming Perl and Learning Perl spoonfed the answers to new users. If the science of learning has taught us anything, it's that spoonfeeding answers in a constructive learning environment works very well. It isn't for seasoned programmers who are comfortable with just reading api docs, but my understanding of this thread is that we're talking about more junior programmers who would benefit from learning in a more spoonfed way. There's nothing wrong with that.
Re: Using grep on undefined array
On Aug 13, 2013 7:35 PM, Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Andrew Beverley a...@andybev.com wrote:
my $select_fields = $fields ? join(',', map { 'users.' . $_ }
@fields)
: '*';
my $select_fields = @fields ? join(',', map { 'users.' . $_ } @fields)
: '*';
?
Maybe a lesson in variable naming there ;-)
Hehe
Also in case readability.
Breaking that into many discrete statements would show it a lot easier too
:)
Re: You! Yes, you! Are you ready for exciting world of global networking?
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Simon Wistow si...@thegestalt.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 06:07:22PM -0400, Chris Devers said: So by “you, yes you”, you meant “well… not actually YOU…” ? Especially not YOU, Devers *narrows eyes* Speaking of shifty things, Fastly CDN's for Pypi but not CPAN? H!! That aside: amazing company.
Re: Alternative sources of Perl programmers
You're not alone in facing this, and as a rule it isn't a perl-specific issue. Perl's just at the leading edge of this. 1. There are fewer perl programmers than PHP programmers. There are many reasons for this, they really don't matter that much. In the end, perl doesn't get as much exposure and it becomes a vicious circle where fewer and fewer people learn perl. 2. There are fewer programmers than there is demand. This is only going to get worse. If you think it's bad now, wait 5 years. 3. The telecommute issue, which has already been brought up. The biggest blockers to this are general fear of the unknown, and a poor understanding of how to manage remote employees. It's really very different to managing local ones. Have you considered hiring existing programmers and teaching them, or giving them time to learn perl? You should. Or you'll have to massively up the price you're willing to pay for someone (either an existing perl dev, or someone who will be able to learn enough perl quickly and well). Simple supply and demand. Again, it'll only get worse. I'd encourage every company to hire more junior people and give them a lot of training. Go ask your HR / recruiting departments how much it costs to hire someone. Don't be shocked when they come back and tell you the number is over £20,000 *just to find someone*. Spend that time and money on training instead - you'll help yourself and everyone around you. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Duncan Garland duncan.garl...@ntlworld.com wrote: Hi, We're advertising for a Perl programmer again, and once again we are struggling. It's a shame because we've got quite a lot of development work in the offing, mostly using Catalyst, DBIx::Class, Moose and the like. I spoke to the agent today and asked why so few people are coming forward. His view was that there aren't many Perl vacancies about at the moment, and even fewer people are interested in them. What are other companies doing about this? We've got several PHP projects on the go as well. It's easier to get local PHP programmers and when we can't, there seems to be a constant supply of good Eastern European programmers. Why isn't there the same stream of Eastern European Perl programmers? A second possibility is to cross-train experienced programmers from other languages into Perl. However, Perl has got itself such a reputation for being difficult to learn that the CTO winces whenever I suggest the idea. How have other companies got on when they've said that they will take experience in Python/Django or Ruby/Rails or whatever in lieu of experience in Perl/Catalyst? Was anybody interested and did they succeed? The third possibility is just to move some of the projects ear-marked for Perl into the PHP camp. I don't really believe that they can't be done in PHP, but it's a pity because they sit nicely with similar successful projects we've done in Perl. (A Catalyst-based system of ours won an industry-wide prize for Best Digital Initiative a couple of months ago.) All the best. Duncan
Re: Raising Perl awareness on Tiobe + Wikipedia, etc.
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: Quoting Richard Foley richard.fo...@rfi.net: I understand what you mean here, but there is room to wriggle. I don't want room to wriggle here. I don't want the Perl community resorting to borderline underhand SEO tactics. I want us to follow the spirit of the Wikipedia rules, not just the letter. But... but... there's more than one way to do this! *ducks and covers*
Re: Offtopic(ish) ops question
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: New VM, installing CPAN deps (cpanm obvs). I know all the apps are going to be the same level of stuff as they'll all be latest Cat/DBIC and so on, and for laziness reasons, that's how it is on my dev VM. It's perl 5.10.1 and I don't knowingly do anything post BBC 5.8.8. Just install CPANM modules into the main perl? No reason to brew a new perl? It depends on your approach to systems management. You can either try and keep app your things separate from the system stuff, or you can allow them all to get jumbled up. With the first, you can install modules from your package manager of choice (apt, yum, whatever), and get somewhat far along. It's also nicer if you're going to take modules that aren't in apt/yum and package them up into .deb or .rpm - you know they'll work for you and others if you distribute them. The down side is that if you fuck it up, you might hose the system perl and any system bits that depend on them (I have this issue with python regularly, where I want a newer python but can't easily upgrade on old systems because it breaks yum and rpm). You might want to see if your OS package manager has the perl version in it that you want. With the second, it's easier to screw around with perl, upgrade as you want, and generally be way more flexible. The downside may be the time it takes to manage that, you'll have to install all your modules, etc. If you're happy doing that, it works :)
Re: Perl outreach
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Kieren Diment dim...@gmail.com wrote: On the technical side, perl supports a number of different programming styles - procedural, functional, oo, and others. Python and Ruby are much more tied into OO. So it's less likely that a good perl person will need to reach for other languages to demonstrate their competence with a diversity of styles, so their CV may look thinner than those of others'. I would highly recommend that anyone who wants to really promote perl actually go talk to some CTOs (the ones who used to be software engineers) at highly successful companies small to mid sized companies which haven't used perl. Actually *ask* them why they haven't. We're asking why people don't use perl for big projects and instead go to python, ruby, php, without involving the people who make those decisions, or who have previously successfully made the decision not to use perl.
Re: Perl outreach
There are a number of issues here: 1. Things like mod_php and php-fpm make it really easy and lightweight to deploy PHP to existing systems. There are packages for every *nix OS that contain these and they're trivial to install. I believe the barrier to entry with perl is higher, which makes it less appealing. Likewise, RoR is fairly easy to get going, easier than Perl I would say. 2. While perl *is* used for web stuff, it's not a language made *for* web stuff. It's a swiss army knife. People don't see this as a positive. I think it's partly why Python/Django haven't really taken off. They have their place, but they won't ever made a dent in PHP or RoR. 3. TMTOWTDI has a huge downside: consistency. Having spoken to counts 5 CTOs at big (500 employees) companies in the last few years about this very thing, the answer is always the same: Perl's just too messy. We don't want TMTOWTDI, we just want one way to do it. FWIW, these were all web companies and not my current employer. 4. It's easier to find PHP/Ruby developers than Perl developers. Lowest common denominator approach. On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing in common: people turn their noses up at perl. Last week at Hacker News Network, among a turnout of 500 people, I saw one other known perlmonger. At AngelHack a few weeks ago, among a similar turnout, I suspect I was the only person knocking up a prototype in perl. And we wonder in a sea of PHP and Rails why no-one registers perl as a good solution. We may have the best tools in the business but that's no help if we don't get out there and demonstrate our technologies. Yes, LPW was great, but where, outside our fishbowl, is perl showing what it can do and how easily it can do it? Does no-one else get the urge to get out there and see what mad problems need solving?
Re: [ADMIN] Testing the Silence
Maybe everyone switched to Python? On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Simon Wistow si...@thegestalt.org wrote: List has been unusually quiet for the last 3 days ... just seeing if anything's broken.
Re: How Perl Saved the Human Genome Project
On Sep 1, 2012 2:47 PM, Adrian Howard adri...@quietstars.com wrote: On 1 Sep 2012, at 20:22, Jones, Chris c.jo...@ucl.ac.uk wrote: Its an old article - but interesting. But one bit I really don't like is Lincoln's comment; Because Perl is quick and dirty….. That's just silly. But Perl can be quick and dirty... it's just not *all* it can be :) Right. It's just a reasonably valid stereotype. :)
Re: Odd problem with SSL under OSX
No route to host means the IP it was resolved to isn't routable (duh, you knew this ;) I'm wondering if something is trying to resolve www.apache.org:443, and the resolvers you're using are returning an IP you can't route to? On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:02 PM, Simon Wistow si...@thegestalt.org wrote: If I try and install LWP::Protocol::https under OSX (10.6.8) I get a failure in its test saying Can't connect to www.apache.org:443 (No route to host) This is not an Apache only problem - I've tried changing the host. Installing it on Linux (including a VMWare Ubuntu instance on my laptop) and FreeBSD works fine. So what could be up with it on the host OSX? Curl works fine. Nobody else seems to have reported the bug. I'm somewhat stumped. Any ideas?
Re: OT? Another question - IRC channels for Android app dev.
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Guinevere Nell guinevere.n...@gmail.com wrote: Hi again all my London.pm friends, I know I just asked for all your help for my husband to choose a web hosting company - he is divided at present between Mythic Beasts and another called Clook - but if you all are feeling very generous, he has another question... He is writing Android and iPhone apps for his company and frequently runs into rather esoteric issues that he seeks advice on. He was using bulletin boards and proprietary advice services mainly until I pushed him into trying IRC, as I always liked perl IRC boards, ever since attending YAPC 19100, back in the day. Only problem - I am not current on the best IRC channels and servers these days, nor do I know the Android/iPhone world. Any suggestions? #android-dev on freenode is *the* place to be. There's an iOS channel on freenode too, I forget what it is. ios-dev or something probably. I used to go there. Both places have been pretty helpful. The android community is, IMO, orders of magnitude smarter and more helpful than the iOS community. The wealth of knowledge on stackoverflow.com for android vs the trickle for iOS shows the clearly. I'm almost at the point where I don't think I'll bother making any more iOS apps. Yeah, it's a rich platform, but I'm not in the mood to pay Apple $100/year and have to maintain two code bases. The Android user base is big enough now.
Re: The proper way to open()
On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com wrote: I'd make a material bet Avleen was joking. You'd win that bet :-) Not to mention, pretty much every modern language exhibits plurality in implementation possibilities (PIMP? :). Paul
Re: The proper way to open()
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:03 AM, James Laver james.la...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 Jan 2012, at 16:56, Dominic Thoreau wrote: open IN, '', $cfg || handle_that_error_sub; No, explicitly not. The || operator is far too high precedence binding. Use 'or' to remove your bug. This is the problem with TMTOWTDI. There should just be one way to do it. Then we wouldn't have this problem.
Re: Should I work in the US or the UK? - which pays best?
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:41 AM, David H. Adler d...@panix.com wrote: Also, pubs. Bars just aren't the same. Love your local pub, Londoners. Be cosy in it. Enjoy meat pies and warm beer. This is also a good point. I have no problem with bars here in the US, but they are definitely not the same thing as pubs. I've found the selection of scotch available in bars in the US is almost always MUCH better than pubs in the UK.
Re: Beware: NET-A-PORTER
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Steve Mynott st...@gruntling.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 09:11:14AM -0500, Avleen Vig typed: US salaries (use payroll expense) is much higher than in the UK. Where in London I would pay a programmer or sysadmin about £45k - £55k, in New York I would pay at least $125k - $150k (about £78k - £93k). This sounds really great! Until you realise that it's pretty much a wash. What does the final line mean? It means that in the end being paid more in the US or less in the UK doesn't make a huge difference. Which isn't *entirely* true, but generally it is. If you're the kind of person who doesn't go out much, cooks at home a lot and is otherwise a low-spender, it can make a HUGE difference. But if you're young, single/a couple with no kids, like to buy big shiny things for you nice downtime residence, then it's about the same in both countries.
Re: Beware: NET-A-PORTER
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com wrote: On 12/09/2011 02:58 AM, Rudolf Lippan wrote: On Friday, December 09, 2011 at 02:23:22 AM, Avleen Vig wrote: My understanding is that NAP had a very hard time finding people in the US---I know I passed their posts by before. I had serious concerns after talking to them, and the recruiter kept me from jumping 3 or 4 times during the process explaining, They don't understand the US market. I estimate that commission for my position alone would have probably be around 54K, but I think it was probably worth it from what I saw of NAP recruitment. where did you get that figure? given the standard rate of 20% (and i know since i recruit) or even less, that would mean a salary of over 250k which is ridiculous but for a handful of perl hackers i know about (merlyn!). Not hardly. Google regularly pays around this number for good programmers (read: good, not exceptional) in New York. This does include things like stock options etc, not just base pay. And I don't know if merlyn is on this list (hi randal! long time no speak!), but he's out in Portland last I heard, and wages there are a lot lot lower than new york - but quality of life is arguably much, much higher too :-)
Re: Beware: NET-A-PORTER
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Richard Foley richard.fo...@rfi.net wrote: UK programmers are half the cost of US programmer? Wow, and I thought all the IT jobs were moving to India! Maybe it's time to move back to the UK, where the beer is warm and the girls are... The true answer, of course, depends on your definition of half. US salaries (use payroll expense) is much higher than in the UK. Where in London I would pay a programmer or sysadmin about £45k - £55k, in New York I would pay at least $125k - $150k (about £78k - £93k). This sounds really great! Until you realise that it's pretty much a wash. You'll pay far less for some things in the UK than in the US (eg, food seems to generally be a lot cheaper in the UK), and vice versa (petrol in the US is cheaper than pissing in your own toilet). Having grown up in London (and lived there recently) and lived in quite a few ma
Re: Beware: NET-A-PORTER
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Richard Foley richard.fo...@rfi.net wrote: UK programmers are half the cost of US programmer? Wow, and I thought all the IT jobs were moving to India! Maybe it's time to move back to the UK, where the beer is warm and the girls are... The true answer, of course, depends on your definition of half. US salaries (use payroll expense) is much higher than in the UK. Where in London I would pay a programmer or sysadmin about £45k - £55k, in New York I would pay at least $125k - $150k (about £78k - £93k). This sounds really great! Until you realise that it's pretty much a wash. You'll pay far less for some things in the UK than in the US (eg, food seems to generally be a lot cheaper in the UK), and vice versa (petrol in the US is cheaper than pissing in your own toilet). Having grown up in London (and lived there recently) and lived in quite a few major metro areas in the US, I can quite confidently say that both pay levels result in similar quality of life. No-one is getting rich. Then there are taxes that both you and the employer have to pay (generally UK employers pay less than US employers or a similar amount I believe, whereas UK employees pay much more). US employers have to pay large healthcare costs for their employees, and other benefits like commuter benefits where they get you cheaper travel on public transport, etc. There are many more things too. So yes, the UK does cost less but in the end it doesn't for anyone.
Re: Beware: NET-A-PORTER
On Dec 9, 2011 8:22 AM, David Cantrell da...@cantrell.org.uk wrote: On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:57:56PM +0100, Richard Foley wrote: Seriously, if some of these managers could get their heads around leveraging the power of telecommuting project teams, they'd not have to worry too much about the respective costs of having a team in any one country. This idea that with the right magic pixie dust teleworking can be made to work regardless of the company, the colleagues, and the employee is a nice idea, but I have seen no evidence whatsoever that it is true. Teleworking erects barriers to communication both between customer (internal or external doesn't matter) and geek, and indeed between you and the rest of the people you're working with. And communication is *important*. WAY more important than most geeks seem to think. Not entirely true. Telecommuting doesnt erect barriers, it results in different barriers which need ti be handled differently. I worked for a distributed company for almost to years. Since then I've worked from home for almost 18 months. It's not more barriers, it's different ones. Eg in the office I sometimes hated having to find people, figure out where they are, maybe having to deal with them face to face when they're having a bad day. These things get better with telecommuting ime :)
Re: Beware: NET-A-PORTER
Hi Rudolf, There a couple of NaP people on this list. I don't know if they can comment though. That said, I agree with Kieren. The simplest answer is usually correct. I know it doesn't make a difference to you as you feel jerked around, but NaP likely spent a lot of time and money interviewing people, working out logistics, planning. This wouldn't have been free for them to do. It feels pretty crappy to be in your position - believe me I've been there more than once. I quickly learned that if you're unemployed, the right thing to do is take the first offer you get (or, the first good one if you can get a few in around the same time). Deal with the consequences of that later - at least you'll be eating and sleeping soundly. That said, if you're looking for work in the US, and you know PHP (sorry perl guys :) ), we're hiring at Etsy. Drop me a mail off-list if you're interested. And we're definitely up front about things! On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Rudolf Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.comwrote: Good morning, Perl Mongers, This is a followup to my post to the Perl jobs-discuss mailing list. Terrence picked it up here: http://livingcosmos.posterous.com/beware-of-net-a-porter-perl-jobs and the original can be found here: http://www.mail-archive.com/jobs-discuss@perl.org/msg01469.html About six weeks ago, I was contacted by a recruiter and asked if I was interested in a team lead position in New Jersey, and so begins my story. I was wanting to get back into the community after a limiting contract, but this wasn't really the sort of splash I hoped to make. I've never been moved to do something like this in the 10+ years I've been programming professionally. I've experienced some less than honest recruiting techniques and companies that had no issue jerking people around, but I was made aware this morning that there were at least two other Perl programmers affected, including junior candidates that probably had more hanging on this than I did. I sent the following list of events to both NET-A-PORTER and the recruiting agency 7 Dec. Earlier today (8 Dec.), the recruiter called me and confirmed this, point by point. NET-A-PORTER has, as of yet, not replied. 1) That NET-A-PORTER was fully aware of the contract rate during the interview process. 2) That NET-A-PORTER selected me to lead their US team and I was asked to wait for final sign off. 3) That NET-A-PORTER was aware that I let another opportunity go based on my understanding that my employment was pending a 'final signature'. 4) That as a condition of final sign off NET-A-PORTER asked that, at the end of the 6 month contract period, I would be willing to accept $30K less than the original budgeted salary with the proviso that the salary would be open to renegotiation based on the market conditions at that time. Furthermore that I agreed to this. 5) That NET-A-PORTER decided to withdraw the position at this point and no longer build out a US-based Perl development team. The reason given is that it would cost 1/2 as much to build out a team in the UK. For a company that espouses their programming culture and community support, I can't understand how they could think this was even remotely acceptable. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact me. The recruiter gave permission to share contact information with any interested parties regarding this situation. I know I'm not in the UK but, short of trying for slashdot, I thought this was the most appropriate venue for informing those who should be most aware of their actions. -r
Re: Beware: NET-A-PORTER
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 2:10 AM, Aaron Trevena aaron.trev...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 December 2011 06:54, Rudolf Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.com wrote: On Thursday, December 08, 2011 at 11:23:35 PM, Kieren Diment wrote: I suspect this is a symptom of the GFC rather than anything more sinister. I'm sorry you and your not-to-be colleagues appear to be friendly fire in this circumstance. I don't know if I buy that: 6 December 2011: ...Net-a-porte[sic] has decided not to build a team here in the US. Apparently it's half the cost for them to build a team in the UK vs. here in the US... 7 December 2011: http://jobs.perl.org/job/14442 Posted: December 7, 2011 Company name: Net-a-porter Internal ID:Junior Perl Developer - New Jersey Location: New York, NY, USA Your recruitment agent could well be telling porky pies NaP, are a pretty reputable outfit - anything you didnt hear directly from them I'd take with a pinch of salt, and I'd never turn down another offer without a written offer or signed contract, certainly not on the word of a recruiter. Could be worth re-applying directly to that ad, if you haven't just marked your own card by your posts about them to perl lists Indeed. My impression of NaP was also that they're very good. Given that I know people there and have only heard good things (you know a company is good when people don't want to leave). So if you're a) good, and b) lucky and c) NaP understands the recruiter might have screwed you both, talk to them directly. At least here in the US, bypassing recruiters is the much preferred method. I don't know why they're still so heavily relied on in the UK.
Re: Toshiba Laptop Repair in London
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: -ENOSOLDERINGIRON? +1, I know several people who've done this successfully.
Re: amusing command sequence of the day
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com wrote: Interesting - my reflexive response to the first would be apt-get install sudo You mean: sudo apt-get install sudo ?
Re: Cool/useful short examples of Perl?
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Jason Clifford ja...@ukfsn.org wrote:
On Mon, 2011-05-30 at 16:27 +0100, Denny wrote:
if (! Email::Valid-address($email_address) ) {
Something wrong with 'unless'?
No but lots of people appear to find if to be more readable
If you're not worried about readability then why bother with either the
if or unless. Just do:
use Email::Valid;
Email::Valid-address($email_address) || print Not valid;
When you're trying to teach someone a new language, you have to relate
it to things they'll understand.
Almost every other language has if/then/else, and doing that here
would definitely be the right thing.
The perl-specific things should be left as an exercise for the reader,
after they're comfortable with the basics and not frightened away.
Re: Cool/useful short examples of Perl?
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com wrote: D == Denny 2...@denny.me writes: you need to challenge them a bit with new stuff instead of handing them simple code anyone can do. It depends entirely. If we're teaching things to people who already know some perl, then sure you're right. But I will bet that people who know some perl almost definitely won't visit learn.perl.org no matter how challenging or interesting you make it. The people who will visit it are people who want to *learn* perl when they don't know (much of it) at all, or people who want a reference. Keep the clever challenging stuff as examples in the reference. Keep the really simple stuff on the front page to draw people in who think perl isn't for them / too difficult / too strange because they don't understand the complicated challenging things. I also hope you don't mean that perl should be challenging for everyone. That is absolutely the worst and most wrong approach ever. If I ever find a task challenging, there is a very good chance I'm doing it wrong. Simple, easy, not complicated or challenging. This is the way good things are written.
Re: Cool/useful short examples of Perl?
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com wrote: if you think that is line noise, then your perl skills need improving. seriously i have taught the slurp line to total beginners and they get it afterwards. this is for learn.perl.org, not golf. my %conf = read_file( $file_name ) =~ /^(\w+)=(.*)$/mg ; that is an assigment to hash, scalar context call on read_file and a regex getting out key=val lines. all stuff newbies need to know and must learn. it happens to use them all in one basic line. it is all a very teachable thing to anyone who knows what a hash, sub call and regex are. i don't expect newbies to know how to read that line but i do expect them to able to learn from it. that is what proper training is about. not feeding pablum to kiddies. I mostly idle on this list since I moved back to the US, but this is something that really irks me. This is exactly why other languages are getting promoted more than perl: because people insist on promoting the things about perl that make it unmaintainable and harder to read, rather than the strengths about how expandable it is, the massive collection of modules, backwards compatibility between versions (mostly), and speed.
Re: Cool/useful short examples of Perl?
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Damian Conway dam...@conway.org wrote: I'll happily concede that this example isn't nearly as impressive as some of the others in this thread, but its real-world, useful, conveniently incremental, requires no modules, and ably demonstrates the value of many core features of Perl. ^^^ THIS This is why perl is great, and this is what should be evangelised about perl. Not that you can do it in 1 line with strange and obscure syntax. This is what people learn the most from. Not perl golf.
Re: Someone needs to take jwz aside...
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:04 AM, Simon Cozens si...@simon-cozens.orgwrote: On 27/04/2011 17:19, Avleen Vig wrote: That's right. If you want OO, you can always use a real programming language. Well, you're either using Smalltalk, or faking it. LISP, or go home. http://xkcd.com/224/
Re: Someone needs to take jwz aside...
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Simon Cozens si...@simon-cozens.orgwrote: On 20/04/2011 09:40, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Or does he have a point? He completely has a point. CPAN developers right now seem to have a strong predilection for throwing the kitchen sink into modules that really don't need it. (You want to parse dates, you use DateTime. Um, no, not necessarily.) And certainly Moose is not the only way to do object orientation. That's right. If you want OO, you can always use a real programming language.
Re: Bulk domain registrar recommendations
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 12:14 AM, Pedro Figueiredo m...@pedrofigueiredo.org wrote: I've been a joker.com customer for nearly 10 years, and can't recommend them enough: good prices, excellent DNS service backed with simple but comprehensive management tools, and I assume good support as well :) Except that if you want to transfer a domain to them, you have to *fax* paperwork to them. fax? really??
Re: Bulk domain registrar recommendations
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com wrote: I know L.pm'ers have some skillz here... I've been a bulkregister (now enom) customer for years but they charge a $99/yr fee and at $10.50/.com/yr aren't that cheap. They do have some effective (albeit slow) domain management facilities, including bulk changes. I'm having a surreal conversation with one of BR's sales guys who's disputing GoDaddy (as a semi-random example of cheaper vendor) is actually cheaper, rather than doing the decent thing of offering a competitive price. So time to go... Which registrars have a decent features/price for someone with a few dozen domains? I've recently started moving all my domains over to http://www.dynadot.com/ These guys seem very smart. Their interface is decent, and fast (I too am/was a bulkregister user since before the $99/yr fee.. ~1999 I think). Dynadot charge $9.75/yr per domain for .com, and $8.99/yr for .co.uk. It Just Works.
Re: Any Kernel wizards out there?
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Stefan Scheytt stefan.sche...@gmail.com wrote: Hello there monglers and mongelettes, There are some oddball machines here running on HP server hardware with openSUSE 2.6.22 kernels that like crashing randomly. My feeble attempts to switch them over to a different, freshly built kernel with kexec/kdump slappen on it have so far been in vain.. mainly because the storage doesn't want to play ball. Just curious - are you using XFS? If so, there were some bugs fixed after 2.6.18 which expose problems / corruption that was caused in 2.6.18 and before. This exposure results in kernel panics regularly. If you have this, your only option is to back up, wipe, reinstall.
Re: Any of the sysadmins here fancy a bit of freelance work?
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:27 PM, David Cantrell da...@cantrell.org.uk wrote: I have a hideously out-of-date Debian 3.1 machine that needs upgrading to latest-stable. Any of you lovely people fancy doing it in exchange for copious beer tokens and my eternal love? Ouch! That's not *terribly* far behind (2 major revisions), but it's far enough that you probably want to consider wiping and re-installing it. What're your options for that? I'd be happy to give you a hand in exchange for beer!
Re: Looking for work...
2010/8/17 Dagfinn Ilmari Mannsåker ilm...@ilmari.org: There were a surprising (to me, at least) number of companies saying they were hiring at YAPC::EU including a couple of UK ones. One of them was Net-a-Porter: http://www.net-a-porter.com/careers/vacancies iirc, one or more people from N-a-P are on this list, too! Generally speaking, the market seems to be picking up (not sure how much it's offsetting the shrink, but I've been getting calls for a few months can and it's increased to almost 3 or 4 a week). Get yourself on the usual job sites, you should get a few calls at least, and you can go from there.
Re: Broadband (probably again...)
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Dirk Koopman d...@tobit.co.uk wrote: The solution to this is to use another DNS service - google's free 8.8.8.8 works for me. It works for google's information systems too... The disinformation tends to get old after a while :-)
Re: Broadband (probably again...)
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Dirk Koopman d...@tobit.co.uk wrote: http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy.html http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy.htmlWe don't correlate or combine your information from the temporary or permanent logs with any other data that Google might have about your use of other services, such as data from Web Search and data from advertising on the Google content network. And then I read the rest of it. As someone who has run a DNS server of one kind or another for getting on for 15 years now (yes, I am that old), I struggle to see the justification for keeping that sort of information (paraphrasing slightly) for debugging and abuse analysis - permanently. Notwithstanding any paranoia that people might suffer from (it takes one to know one), I do wonder whether Google realises that, just lately, it has been shooting itself in the foot rather a lot. Maybe I am getting old and particularly cranky, but that privacy page gives me no warm feeling at all. Disclaimer: I used to work for Google. My opinions are my own, but I do so like to play Devil's Advocate. I don't see where in the privacy statement they say what data is in the permanent logs. You're assuming it's query data. Maybe they collect data on which ISPs people come from, so they can arrange for peering agreements with those companies to reduce their costs and improve performance for you. Or maybe they store the number of queries made for particular domains, and the different parts of the world those queries come from. There's a ton of very legitimate reasons for them to keep permanent logs, aside from wanting to follow Dirk Koopman around the internet so that Scotland Yard can see exactly which Perl website he read today. There's a point of absurdity and I think that we collectively are close to passing it, if we haven't already.
Re: Founding a Perlmongers group
Duh, he already said: He's not going to London. On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Guido Barosio gbaro...@gmail.com wrote: Where are you moving? gb.- On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Matt Sergeant mserge...@messagelabs.comwrote: James Laver wrote: As I shall shortly be leaving london for somewhere with no PM group, I thought it might be nice to create one. How do I go about it? http://www.pm.org/start/index.html __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email__
Re: london.pm xmas xword
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Aaron Trevena aaron.trev...@gmail.com wrote: Python is cryptic enough. If by that you mean we're used to doing some weird crazy things, and real OO is too cryptic now, then I agree ;-)
Re: london.pm xmas xword
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Aaron Trevena aaron.trev...@gmail.com wrote: Still no answers in my inbox. Most complete will win if nobody completes it. Maybe I should have posted to a java or python group - they would have finished it by now. Can you do a python one for s's and g's? I'd give that a crack :)
Re: Perl Christmas Quiz 2009
On Nov 30, 2009, at 14:43, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 Nov 2009, at 18:24, Chris Jack wrote: Seeing as last year's quiz was mildly popular, Bonus question: How many people will be mildly irritated by starting a new thread with a Reply-to: to an existing one? Answer: none. We stopped being petty in 1997 and grew up :p
Re: Credit Cards
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Abigail abig...@abigail.be wrote: The problem is the protocol between the retailer and the banks. There are differences in different countries. So you cannot use your ATM card for retail payment outside of your country. But this is going to change by the end of next year. See for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area. Almost, yes. There is good interchange between North America and the UK at least. So I applied for a credit card (and got it, with a credit limit 4 times higher than I actually wanted) - and lo, six months later the bank re-issued my Maestro as a Visa Debit There are a lot of places in .nl where I can pay with an ATM card, but I cannot use a credit card. The costs for a retailer when the customer pays with an ATM card is only a few cents - far less than a credit card payment. Furthermore, if I pay with an ATM card, money is transferred immediately. Indeed. This is why some retailers offer incentives for people to pay by ATM (Ikea offers some % off in the US), and the banks offer things like cash back for paying by credit :)
Re: Credit Cards
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 5:27 AM, Robert Shiels rob...@se71.org wrote: further to recent discussions, I think there are people here who might be able to give me and answer to a question I have that I can't fine through browsing. I tried to buy something through play.com last week, and they want my credit card details. Along with the usual dates and numbers, they are also insisting on a date of birth, and a landline telephone number? For security reasons. I dislike giving online retailers any more information than I have to - do they really need this? Will other companies be following suit and so refusing is just me playing Canute? Will the CC company verify these details (not sure if I've even given them my phone number.) - I'm of the opinion that play.com are just data mining. For what it's worth, I think yes other companies are going to start doing this. Here in the US, when you place a credit card order online, you almost always have to give the phone number associated with the credit card account, and that is definitely verified by the CC company / bank. I see no problem with this really.
Re: Anyone hiring at the moment?
I was in Amsterdam a couple of times last year and ate and drank around a bit. It was distinctly mediocre and quite expensive. The highlight was probably the Scotch place with over 1,000 whiskies, but at typically EUR10/20ml, was a rather inefficient way to get pissed. Good scotch is not for getting pissed on, but for savouring and enjoying :)
Re: Anyone hiring at the moment?
On Sep 23, 2009, at 5:38, Ovid publiustemp-londo...@yahoo.com wrote: - Original Message From: Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com Good scotch is not for getting pissed on, but for savouring and enjoying :) Could you explain that to my niece? I visited the US recently and brought over a bottle of Green Spot. She took one sip, said it was great, and then shot the rest. I could have cried. Next time, I'll buy her whiskey which comes in a soft plastic bottle. There's a definite culture of doing that kind of thing here (I'm in the US too now) with the younger generation. Get blatted as fast as possible. Never mad sense to me :)
Re: Anyone hiring at the moment?
On Sep 23, 2009, at 1:51, Dave Cross d...@dave.org.uk wrote: On 23/09/2009 09:41, Avleen Vig wrote: I was in Amsterdam a couple of times last year and ate and drank around a bit. It was distinctly mediocre and quite expensive. The highlight was probably the Scotch place with over 1,000 whiskies, but at typically EUR10/20ml, was a rather inefficient way to get pissed. Good scotch is not for getting pissed on, but for savouring and enjoying :) You're not from round here, are you :-) I used to be!!
Re: Skype
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Dirk Koopman d...@tobit.co.uk wrote: Another objection that one might have (and the Indian Government certainly have) is that all the traffic is routed through two sets of servers, one located in the US and one in the UK. It means that we can eavesdrop on them, but they can't reciprocate. Actually, my understanding is that this is not the case (although it could be made like this is Skype wanted). The *authentication* happens over two servers, but the traffic is almost all P2P.
Re: Hardware Reliability
On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Ask Bjørn Hansena...@develooper.com wrote: On Jun 4, 2009, at 13:49, duncan.garl...@ntlworld.com wrote: Can somebody please point me in the direction of some authorative reliability statistics for server hardware, preferably including add-ons such as disc arrays? Google has a paper on that stuff for individual disks. In my experience failure rates for everything else is much lower (but each failure of course is more hassle): http://labs.google.com/papers/disk_failures.pdf All is not what it seems. Take this with a spoon of salt.
Re: Hardware Reliability
I don't have any written analysis for you, just 15+ years of experience. Most server hardware (cheap or expensive) will run 5 years without many issues, 10 years with some issues. By issues I mean the occasional bad disk, etc. IMO most drives which are going to die, do so within the first 12 months. After that they often last 3+ years, and 5+ years isn't unheard of. The biggest killer of old drives, is power cycling them. It requires bearings which have been in constant motion for years to suddenly stop abd then be exposed to sheer forces when starting up. If you are happy running older, slower, less efficient hardware, you can probably keep it longer than 3 years without a problem. On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:49 PM, duncan.garl...@ntlworld.com wrote: Hi, Can somebody please point me in the direction of some authorative reliability statistics for server hardware, preferably including add-ons such as disc arrays? I case to put together a case for the number of failures we can expect if we replace our hardware every three years. Everybody has an opinion but I can't find any proper published data. Thanks Duncan
Re: Hardware Reliability
On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Ask Bjørn Hansena...@develooper.com wrote: All is not what it seems. Take this with a spoon of salt. That is so unfair; you must tell more. :-) Not on your life. And certainly not on mine :-)
Re: [OT] New Buffy movie
I have to say, that is simply awesome. I can't wait. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:17 PM, breno br...@rio.pm.org wrote: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i666afabc28491e6a5d5861d83ae30855 --8 A new incarnation of Buffy the Vampire Slayer could be coming to the big screen. Buffy creator Joss Whedon isn't involved and it's not set up at a studio, but Roy Lee and Doug Davison of Vertigo Entertainment are working with original movie director Fran Rubel Kuzui and her husband, Kaz Kuzui, on what is being labeled a remake or relaunch, but not a sequel or prequel. While Whedon is the person most associated with Buffy, Kuzui and her Kuzui Enterprises have held onto the rights since the beginning, when she discovered the Buffy script from then-unknown Whedon. She developed the script while her husband put together the financing to make the 1992 movie, which was released by Fox. Kuzui later teamed with Gail Berman, then president of Sandollar Television, bringing back Whedon to make the TV series, which was produced by Fox TV and launched on the WB in 1997. Kuzui and Sandollar received executive producer credits on Buffy and its spinoff, Angel. The new Buffy film, however, would have no connection to the TV series, nor would it use popular supporting characters like Angel, Willow, Xander or Spike. Vertigo and Kuzui are looking to restart the story line without trampling on the beloved existing universe created by Whedon, putting the parties in a similar situation faced by Paramount, J.J. Abrams and his crew when relaunching Star Trek. One of the underlying ideas of Buffy allows Vertigo and Kuzui to do just that: that each generation has its own vampire slayer to protect it. The goal would be to make a darker, event-sized movie that would, of course, have franchise potential. The parties are meeting with writers and hearing takes, and later will look for a home for the project. The producers do not rule out Whedon's involvement but have not yet reached out to him.Speaking from Tokyo, Fran Kuzui said the company is constantly approached not only about sequels but theater, video games and foreign remakes for Buffy. When Vertigo's Lee contacted them, they were intrigued. It was Roy's interest in taking Buffy into a new place that grabbed us, she said, noting that original exec producer Sandy Gallin also was consulted. It was based on our respect for what he does, and his particular sensitivity to Asian filmmakers, that we wanted to work with him. Kuzui, who is prepping do direct a movie in Japan in the fall, added: Everything has its moment. Every movie takes on a life at some point, and this seems like the moment to do this. --8
Re: How we see CVs
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Jonathan Stowe j...@integration-house.com wrote: 2009/4/1 Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com: This is great, http://www.hanovsolutions.com/resume_comic.png I thought we had banned jokes on the list on the grounds that it discriminated against those without a sense of humour ... That's not funny.
Re: Check out my newest videos...
ARSE. Guys, I sincerely apologise for this. I fat-fingered a test and spammed my address book :( Not good form. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Avleen avl...@gmail.com avl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! Check out my newest videos! http://www.woome.com/newuser/vsi/06cglv/ Do you want to watch them? If YES - click here: http://www.woome.com/newuser/vsi/06cglv/ If NO - click here: http://www.woome.com/newuser/vsi/06cglv/ See you there! - Avleen --- click here to block or manage emails from WooMe, 3832 Hemmingway, CA 92606, USA: http://www.woome.com/unsubscribe_email/63957b78c55d2732c38dae3a68fe9f841b2e5f83/ or, send a single blank email with BLOCK in the subject line to: priv...@woome.com #wmeid: 24437194
Re: Recession rates
On Mar 10, 2009, at 17:07, Dirk Koopman d...@tobit.co.uk wrote: Jonathan Stowe wrote: It's the recruiter doing it - the poor sap candidates are probably getting 300 or less and will have been told that is the most that the client is going to pay. The recruiter doesn't care, they might start introducing a differential depending on whether they can drive the candidates down any more if the client starts to hedge. They want to keep their figure in straight up monetary terms - they don't want to take the same percent of a smaller rate. £300? Don't be daft. A lot of recruiters wouldn't get out of bed for ~25%, they will be looking for at least %50 (and in the bad old day s 100%). I would not be surprised if the saps are being offered £200 in these difficult times. Or have we all forgotten how much we hate these people? I don't know what the contract market is like, but on the permis side recruiters used to get up to 50% in the bad old days. Now i've seen them beaten down to 10% 4 times. Once down to 7.5% each when two people were hired together. I spoke to a friend who is a recruiter a few mins ago, and they're in quite a panic. Not because there isn't work (there's quite a bit around apparently). Just that there are so few good candidates on the market. I don't mean to slight anyone on this list who can't work right now. You're a diamond in a lot of rough.
Re: [OT] Perl woes
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Jonathan Kimmitt jonathan.kimm...@csr.com wrote: The next time I use == instead of eq to compare two strings, I will know to expect it will always evaluate to true. What other language does this (apart from C, which would invariably return false) Objective C (which is almost C, but different enough), == is used to compare if two objects are equal. And by equal, we mean pointers to the same address space. As a result, classes like NSString override == and 'isEqual' to actually do things like string comparisons. So you can use == on string objects just fine :-)
Re: [OT] Perl woes
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Peter Corlett ab...@cabal.org.uk wrote: $ python Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Aug 6 2008, 09:17:29) [GCC 4.3.1] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. '1' + '2' '12' 1 + 2 3 1 + '2' Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in module TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'str' Ruby is the same: [avl...@avleen-mb] ~ $ irb 1 + 2 = 3 '1' + '2' = 12 1 + '2' TypeError: String can't be coerced into Fixnum from (irb):3:in `+' from (irb):3 (My complaints about Python are in other annoying corners of the language.) Just curious, what else annoys you? Feel free to reply off list, but I think there's merit to discussing (constructively, in a non-flame way!) other languages and what we do and don't like about them.
Re: London.pm Dim sum Thursday 1pm: Leong's Legend Continues
On Jan 15, 2009, at 7:53, Léon Brocard a...@astray.com wrote: 2009/1/13 Léon Brocard a...@astray.com: London.pm dim sum is a social event where we meet up every Thursday at 1pm at a different Chinese restaurant, spend about an hour (and about £10 cash) eating tasty dim sum (steamed and fried dumplings), then go our separate ways. Thursday 1pm Leong's Legend Continues Lisle Street London WC2H Leicester Square Station Tube Station http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Lisle%20Street,WC2H http://london.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Leong%27s_Legend%2C_W1D_6AX http://www.timeout.com/london/restaurants/reviews/13381.html This is today! Who's coming? Léon Just stepped out to work. The weather looks crappy here in hounslow. Hopefully zone 1 is better. I'm a maybe. Actually I'll probably be there unless it starts raining. H8 rain. Innit.
Re: London.pm Dim sum Thursday 1pm: Leong's Legend Continues
I'm in! Now that I work 10 mins from here, dim sum is easy! On Jan 13, 2009, at 8:33, Léon Brocard a...@astray.com wrote: We tried to go to this one at Christmas but it was closed. Let's try again. Back to Chinatown to a new sister restaurant of my favourite dim sum restaurant which is almost named after me. It has a few new dishes on the menu. Note that this one is on Lisle Street, not Macclesfield Street. London.pm dim sum is a social event where we meet up every Thursday at 1pm at a different Chinese restaurant, spend about an hour (and about £10 cash) eating tasty dim sum (steamed and fried dumplings), then go our separate ways. Thursday 1pm Leong's Legend Continues Lisle Street London WC2H Leicester Square Station Tube Station http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Lisle%20Street,WC2H http://london.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Leong%27s_Legend%2C_W1D_6AX http://www.timeout.com/london/restaurants/reviews/13381.html See you there! Léon, London.pm Dim Sum Mandarin
Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)
On Jan 5, 2009, at 9:30, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote: Nicholas Clark wrote: So we will all have to ask you what it's like... Is it a company on this list? http://london.pm.org/advocacy/ No, its a, um, er, Django shop. What a strange coincedence. I start at a Django shop on Monday, also! Yours isn't up around Soho is it?
Re: It Shines! It Shines!
On Dec 19, 2008, at 17:36, Tony Kennick 0995a06aaeaf6b70e79c3aafd6719...@half.pint.org.uk wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:39:30PM +, the following was promulgated by Andy Wardley: Behold! http://london.pm.org/ Now it has rounded corners, is it time for other web_2.0_ness? Slideshows of appropriately tagged pictures on flicker? The aggregated twitterings of the faithful? Bookmarks pulled in from delicious and reddit? Only half joking... Tony I'm not joking at all when I say I think that's a good idea. I'll try to think up the best way to integrate such thing into content that people will wantto look at. Just hving a London.pmers page would be silly, no-one would look at it.
Re: London.pm Dim sum Thursday 1pm: HK Diner
On Dec 18, 2008, at 8:10, Léon Brocard a...@astray.com wrote: 2008/12/16 Léon Brocard a...@astray.com: We've been out a bit west recently, so it's time to head back into Chinatown and try a restaurant I've been meaning to visit. As I failed to point out earlier, today is also the 21st Birthday of Perl! $ perldoc perlhist | grep 1.000 | head -1 Larry 1.000 1987-Dec-18 So we shall be having a celebratory dim sum. Why not come and celebrate the cold winter days and the many years of hacking Perl we have done in the past and we hope to do in the future? Party hats optional. London.pm dim sum is a social event where we meet up every Thursday at 1pm at a different Chinese restaurant, spend about an hour (and about £10 cash) eating tasty dim sum (steamed and fried dumplings), then go our separate ways. HK Diner 22 Wardour Street Chinatown, London W1D 6QQ Leicester Square Tube Station http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=W1D6QQ http://www.timeout.com/london/restaurants/reviews/9306.html http://london.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?HK_Diner%2C_W1D_6QJ Who's coming? Léon, London.pm Dim Sum Mandarin Little bit of a trip from bank but I may be there :)
Re: London.pm Dim sum Thursday 1pm: HK Diner
On Dec 17, 2008, at 22:56, Nicholas Clark n...@ccl4.org wrote: On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:31:56PM +, the hatter wrote: On Wed, 17 Dec 2008, Christopher Jones wrote: Well, it is a special occasion after all Could Dim sum be turned into a 21st Birthday Party? Depends - are you bringing cake and jelly+ice cream ? Otherwise it's not a real birthday party. Will stripy jelly* for desert do? [Not available at every Dim Sum restaurant, so may not actually be at HK Diner. But nearly everywhere has ice cream. And Kake often comes] Nicholas Clark * Gosh. I typed that first with a g. I blame a certain IRC nickname. I'll come for strip gelly.
Re: Perl Christmas Quiz
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Paul Makepeace pa...@paulm.com wrote:
Yes, but can Python do it in one line?
[(i,) * min(l1.count(i), l2.count(i)) for i in set(l1).intersection(set(l2))]
That produces an array of tuples of the repeated elements,
[('q',), ('p', 'p'), ('n',)]
A truly flat list is left as exercise (I battle with a reduce+lambda
hack but didn't quite win.)
I'm probably misunderstanding 'truly flat' but like this?
[''.join(i) * min(l1.count(i), l2.count(i)) for i in
set(l1).intersection(set(l2))]]
Re: I'm afraid I'm leaving already :(
On Dec 15, 2008, at 5:21, Kake L Pugh k...@earth.li wrote: On Mon 15 Dec 2008, bl...@perlbloke.com wrote: I'm afraid I leaving this group. Goodbye, Lyle. Hopefully the whining quotient of the list will go down a bit now. If it doesn't, I'm sending you all to a Harvester for the next social. I will not eat a combine harvester. I simply refuse! The last one was difficult enough.
Re: Perl Christmas Quiz
On Dec 15, 2008, at 10:04, James Laver james.la...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Chris Jack chris_j...@msn.com wrote: 3) Write a Perl function that takes two references to arrays and returns the intersect of them. If an entry appears n times in array 1 and m times in array 2, the output should list that entry min(n,m) times. Bonus mark for one line solutions. In the spirit of sharing, I offer this solution, from your neighbours in the Python community: a = ['m', 'n', 'o', 'o', 'p', 'p', 'q'] b = ['n', 'p', 'q', 'r', 'r', 's'] def FindSetMatches(list1, list2): for i in set(list1).intersection(set(list2)): print '%s min(%s, %s)' % (i, list1.count(i), list2.count(i)) :-) Using other languages is really cheating. Well duh. There were alreay multiple Perl solution out there. And I didn't know a better one. Plus I just wanted to be a snob with my four-line solution.
Re: Perl Christmas Quiz
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Chris Jack chris_j...@msn.com wrote: 3) Write a Perl function that takes two references to arrays and returns the intersect of them. If an entry appears n times in array 1 and m times in array 2, the output should list that entry min(n,m) times. Bonus mark for one line solutions. In the spirit of sharing, I offer this solution, from your neighbours in the Python community: a = ['m', 'n', 'o', 'o', 'p', 'p', 'q'] b = ['n', 'p', 'q', 'r', 'r', 's'] def FindSetMatches(list1, list2): for i in set(list1).intersection(set(list2)): print '%s min(%s, %s)' % (i, list1.count(i), list2.count(i)) :-)
Re: Is Perl alive ?
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Ian Malpass i...@indecorous.com wrote: Then *everyone* would be happy. Maybe? We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty. Unpossible! Until you look at each page, perl is both dead and alive at the same time! Zombie Perl!
Re: Is Perl alive ?
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Jonathan Stowe j...@integration-house.com wrote: PATCHES! PATCHES! Whining fuckers, I should ban the lot of you Here you go. http://www.abledata.com/product_images/images/05A0283.JPG
Re: # and believe me, Perl is still alive... still alive!...
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Zbigniew Lukasiak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I concur very strongly on all your points. One thing to add to this is that at the time of the Perl boom - people still believed in TIMTOWTDI and it was officially allowed to write Perl baby talk - this is from Programming Perl (http://www.unix.com.ua/orelly/perl/prog3/ch00_01.htm): While I understand why you did it, I would kindly like to request that we don't promote sites which host stolen copies of ORA books. It's not fair to ORA, who give the perl community a great deal of support.
Re: Perl is dead
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 4, 2008, at 13:33 , Philippe Bruhat (BooK) wrote: How do we reach people outside the community after having spent so much time talking to ourselves? This is something that I don't have the technical know-how to accomplish, but a way of using Perl from within PHP, I'm guessing as a library extension, would provide a strong deployment vector into a large and talkative community that is often blissfully ignorant that there even is anything else. It would be a neat way to show cool tricks, and the power of CPAN. Doug MacEachern had suggested he was working on something like that ages ago, but I don't know if it went anywhere. We could just ask people what the don't like about perl, or what they'd like to see change / improve. They'll probably rattle off a list of things which they like about other languages which they don't like in perl, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It might show us the strengths in other languages that we lack?
Re: Perl is dead
On Dec 3, 2008, at 18:37, Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3 Dec 2008, at 18:13, Jesse Vincent wrote: On Wed 3.Dec'08 at 17:55:55 +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: In response to Ovid's post on use.perl: http://davehodg.blogspot.com/2008/12/perl-is-dead.html Is there really no Ruby or Python on that list? There weren't on the original list. Fixed. Perl at least kicks the ass of the upstarts. For now. I do see that changing though. The other languages have their problems, but they have strengths that shouldn't be ignored. I had a really long example here, comparing python, perl and ruby, but I decided to hold there delete key on my iPhone for 5 mins to delete it. It's irrelevent. Even by your numbers, python an ruby combined are sneaking up on perl. WHY are they popular? They're not new. Python's been around for a long time, and I believe ruby has too. They've solidified their community, which doesn't just stick to the old way of doing things. (I can't believe I'm saying this next bit..) Javascript, Ajax, animated gifs, flash, embedded java applets. These are all GOOD things. The rest of the world likes them. Geeks might not, but ours is not the opinion which matters. Ovid's right. We should be taking a long hard look at ourselves and asking questions. Are we evolving? If not, why not? If we wanted to, what could we change? I do t think we really know what to change or how to change it.
Re: Perl is dead
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 06:42:14PM +, James Laver typed: At risk of being somewhat london-centric, how many jobs have you seen advertised for python down here recently? In the past year or so I've seen about 5 python jobs advertised (at least that I've noticed). Alongside this there have been a large number of perl jobs, a handful of ruby jobs and a surprisingly large amount of PHP jobs. Python seems more popular in the USA than UK from speaking with people at conferences. There have been a small number of test framework-type python roles here but not many. I suspect Django may increase the number of python roles but Rails has been popular (as has Catalyst). I like Python and I wish it were more widely used. It's a singular datapoint, but to answer the how many python jobs.., I would ask how many engineers has Google hired in London in the last few years? It's *one* job application with lots of hires, many of whom will have to use python at some point. Other companies have probably done the same. But I don't believe the same is true with Perl. Perl is fairly well entrenched. It's available everywhere. But Python is still growing and has a lot of headroom. Most people have tried Perl. The number trying Python and Ruby instead is growing. Fast. I like Python too and wish the same. I like that is enforces structure. I'd donate a kidney if perl could be made to do that.
Re: Perl is dead
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 8:16 PM, James Laver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like Python too and wish the same. I like that is enforces structure. I'd donate a kidney if perl could be made to do that. It's not the place of a language to do that, it's a case of Don't be an idiot when writing code. I've seen crappy python and other code often enough, you can't fix it inside the language, you have to fix the programmer. I completely agree. But by the same token, make it easier for the programmer. The reason we code in perl instead of assembler, is because perl makes it easier. I don't think that any harm is done in this particular case (enforcing style). Does it breed lazy programmers? I don't think so. The less I have to worry about small but important things like style/readability/documentation, the more I can focus on writing good code.
