Re: Kiev
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 08:26:52AM +, Steve Mynott wrote: > The conference centre used in the summer for YAPC::EU has been > occupied by protesters! > > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-protests-police-forced-to-abandon-kiev-conference-centre-to-opposition-as-presidents-latest-concessions-offer-fails-9085996.html > > S On another video we saw the Mafia restaurant where many Perlers had eaten... camera was at the underground-street-crossing-stairs across from the venue. Surreal.
Re: You make a lovely teddy bear
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 04:37:35PM +, David Cantrell wrote: > So I'd like to thank you all for being my teddy bear: > http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/tpop/debugging.html > I thought it was called "rubber duck", for some reason...
Re: Lazy sort (was Re: Schwartzian transform)
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 01:28:57PM +0200, Abigail wrote: > [1] Well, it may depend on what definition of lazy you mean. Obviously, > you can't "lazyly" [3] sort an infinite list, as you need to process > all elements at least once to be able to return a first element. > But using, for instance, heapsort, you can return the first k elements > of a list in sorted order in O (N + k log N) time, which beats > O (N log N) if k << N. [ snip ] > > [3] Is this a real word? > "Lazily", yes. -Mallory
Re: [ANNOUNCE] London Perl Workshop
On Tue, Oct 07, 2014 at 10:46:27AM +0100, Mark Keating wrote: > All of you who spotted the 'deliberate mistake' in the date > (whistles and rolls eyes), to capture who was taking notice win a > prize of a free kiss from Bobby, the Shadowcat Dog. Shadowcat doesn't have an office kitty? A shadow catdog just sounds kinda wrong. Matt's idea? _mallory
Re: New Year's Resolution - Learn Modern Perl
Can this be x-posted over to SitePoint forums? At least the class if not the discount (let me know). _mallory
Re: New Year's Resolution - Learn Modern Perl
On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 09:34:45AM +, Andrew Solomon wrote: > Please do Mallory. In the spirit of the season, send them the discount > coupon too and ask them to let me know that they're acting on your > advice. I'll count up the number (X) who actually stay beyond the > three day trial and, as an act of gratitude, I'll send you a mug: Ha, well unfortunately the Perl area of SitePoint is nearly dead, much more so than the language :) But there was recently someone there asking where to get started do it does get eyeballs now and then. More likely if anyone signs up, it will be later than the coupon deadline. Someone might ask, the regular course will be available afterwards? Like, if someone sees the post in February, can they enroll? Or is this in real-time? _mallory
beer? weekend of the 24th June in London
Hallo mongers, I'm Mallory and I don't really do any Perl. But my husband does, and we'll be in London (a first for me) on the weekend of the 24th of June and was wondering if there'd be a possibility to just drink some beer and hang out with some Perlers somewhere that weekend? Dakkar suggested I ask here :) cheers, Mallory
beer? weekend of the 24th June in London
Sorry, wasn't subscribed so couldn't reply. >What area will you be in? What tourist crap do you want to do? We'll be in a cheapy Mccheap hotel "Sani" which is by Shepard's Bush (or, that's the nearest terminal), and as for tourist crap we dunno really. At least the Natural History Museum and maybe 221b Baker Street. Further, I guess just see "London". Since we get to the hotel late on Friday (we hope around 9pm but you never know with trains), I dunno if Friday night is best or Saturday... we're also in town Monday evening as well. Anyway I dunno what's the best manner to pick an evening... I assume whichever the most people can attend? And we have no idea what a "good" pub is in the area. If there isn't one, another area should be fine. Cheers, Mallory
Re: beer? weekend of the 24th June in London
On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 11:14:00AM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: > On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 11:34:23AM +0200, Mallory van Achterberg wrote: > > Sorry, wasn't subscribed so couldn't reply. > > For future reference, that's not actually true. Non-subscriber mail hits > the moderation queue, and human non-subscribers usually then get whitelisted > so that they don't need further moderation. > > Now, you likely won't see a *reply* unless you're subscribed, but that's a > different colour of bikeshed ... :-) Ah, what I meant was, I have no idea how to set up headers to make an email out of the blue be a reply, or get it in the same thread as the other I made out of the blue. I dunno enough about email headers. Lawlz. I saw replies easily enough on the archive. So, was apologising for basically starting a whole new thread on the same subject as earlier. -Mallory
Re: beer? weekend of the 24th June in London
So, Bridge House at 18 Tower Bridge Road, London on Saturday evening 25th June? (DuckDuckGo brought up another Bridge House in London but this one seemed correct) I'm looking at the suggestions of Nicholas, and wondering who is best as "sponsor" of this. I suppose first we'd have to know who thinks they can make it... and of them, who's a good candidate. cheers, -Mallory On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 11:42:13AM +0100, Peter Corlett wrote: > How about the Bridge House? It's a London.pm favourite, and it's near the > Tower of London and Tower Bridge, so fits in with your tourist plans.
Re: [ANNOUNCE] YAPC::Europe 2011 in a month
A note: There are a lot of "people" registered, with no info or anything. I wonder if these are spam attempts that didn't go anywhere? :) -Mallory On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 08:30:20AM +0100, Leo Lapworth wrote: > A message from the YAPC::Europe organisers > > It is only one month left before YAPC::Europe 2011 "Modern Perl"! The > conference is on 15-17 August in Riga, Latvia. > > Yesterday we reached another record of 200 committed attendees. We > know that Perl community is much bigger and would like to see > everybody in Riga. We've got huge venue which can host all the active > subscribers of @pm.org European lists together in one room. People > from 40 countries and 60 monger groups are going to attend the > conference: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/stats/. > > > Our schedule is enormous and dense. Three days of four or five talk > tracks. Three hours of lightning talks. Track for beginners. Larry > Wall Monday morning, Damian Conway Tuesday morning, Jesse Vincent > Wednesday morning. Talks about Perl 5, 6, 5.14 and even 5.16. Talks on > web frameworks, DBIx et. al., NoSQL and clouds, and much much more: > > Monday: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/schedule/?day=2011-08-15 > Tuesday: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/schedule/?day=2011-08-16 > Wednesday: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/schedule/?day=2011-08-17 > > Not to mention the pre-conference meeting in the centre of city and > the attendees dinner in famous Riga's place. > > Three easy steps to become a committed attendee: > 1) Register: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/register > 2) Join the conference: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/register > 3) Buy a ticket: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/purchase (note that you > can save 80% by attending Wednesday only!) > > > What else you can do: > > * Submit a talk or a lightning one: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/newtalk > * Become a speaker at the Beginner track: > http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/talk/3242 > * Become (or bring) a sponsor: > http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/sponsorship/index.html > * Attend teaching classes: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/talks#151 > * Attend the Perl 6 hackathon: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/talk/3388 > * Simply attend the conference and socialize. > > Hope to see you in Riga this August! > > Conference website: http://yapceurope.lv > Twitter channel: http://twitter.com/yapcrussia > Official hashtag: #ye2011 > Orgarnizer's e-mail address: m...@yapceurope.lv > > > [ Note from Leo: http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/stats/ - London.pm doesn't quite > have tripple the number of the next biggest PM group yet - and really we > should > have quadruple! - so what are you waiting for :) ]
Re: mutt
What, I'm looking around in the docs and I don't see anything about * except that something's "tagged" (which I get when people use Outlook to reply to me it seems??). >From what I can see, I'd have to set edit_headers to true in my mutt rc to change headers, to start new threads. So what is this # key for mutt? -Mallory On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 06:33:38PM +0100, Paul LeoNerd Evans wrote: > On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:27:20PM +0200, Joel Bernstein wrote: > > In case anybody is reading this and is still mystified, never ever > > ever begin a new mailing list thread by replying to an old one and > > deleting bits of it, your mail client is likely to set headers like > > References: and In-Reply-To: which will cause your mail to be threaded > > with the old one. Which is exactly what you told your client and the > > list to do, but almost certainly not what you *wanted* to do. > > The day I learned mutt's # key was a great day; now no longer do I have > to put up with this sort of crap. When anyone ever abuses references > headers like this, I just hit # and hey presto - new thread. :) > > -- > Paul "LeoNerd" Evans > > leon...@leonerd.org.uk > ICQ# 4135350 | Registered Linux# 179460 > http://www.leonerd.org.uk/
Re: mutt
Any hints on where in the mutt docs this magic key is? -Mallory On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 06:22:19AM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: > On 07/24/2011 10:36 PM, David Cantrell wrote: >> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:14:24PM +0200, Mallory van Achterberg wrote: >> >>> From what I can see, I'd have to set edit_headers to true in my >>> mutt rc to change headers, to start new threads. >> >> Why change headers at all? Just don't hit reply to start a new message >> that isn't a reply. > > Well, yes, of course. But the # key is a tool for fixing the situation > when you've _received_ mail from someone who doesn't know that. > > Dave... > >
Re: mutt
Ah, thanks. Yes, does not match my bookmarked manual :( -Mallory On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 03:38:34PM +0100, David Leadbeater wrote: > On 27 July 2011 13:56, Mallory van Achterberg wrote: > > > Any hints on where in the mutt docs this magic key is? > > > It's in the manual for the development version: > > http://www.mutt.org/doc/devel/manual.html#break-threads > > Mutt appears to be another of those projects that has forgone releases and > assumes you'll use the development version. > > David
Re: Auction (was LPW 2011 carpooling)
>From what I've heard from Max, auction is unlikely, except something fun like Josë's pushups. -Mallory On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 12:37:36AM +0200, Abigail wrote: > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 03:42:03PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: > > > > Who will we get to do the auction? Will there even be an auction? :-/ > > > No more auction? Best news in a long time. > > > > Abigail
Re: Writing About Perl
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 05:05:35PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 12:59:42PM +0200, Job van Achterberg wrote: > > On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 11:39 +0100, Dave Cross wrote: > > > So, purely hypothetically... > > > If a popular Linux magazine had given you the opportunity to write a > > > 3000 word article giving a practical project-based demonstration of > > > how Perl had moved on in the last ten years, what would you do? What > > > would you write about? > > Developments in Moose, modern web frameworks, influences of Perl 6? > > None of those are of any interest to people not currently using perl. > > Web frameworks in particular is "so what, what's so special about that?" I disagree. If the audience is looking for frameworks, they're hearing plenty about what Python, Ruby and PHP have to offer. And they're using them for those reasons, I'd say. You have a job to do, and you look for relevant tools. If Perl == 1990's CGI scripts in your mind, you won't go out of your way to see anything you can use in Perl. If one framework did what everyone wanted, why are there so darn many of them?? -Mallory
Re: Writing About Perl
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 01:45:58PM +0200, Abigail wrote: > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 12:24:05PM +0100, Pete Smith top-posted: > > I think that devs are interested in tools that let them get things up > > and running with little effort, so perhaps an article explaining how > > easy it is to use catalyst/dancer/mojo + dbic + plack (with a bit of > > moose thrown in) using distro packages (cpan probably frustrates newbies > > to perl if installation / tests fail) to get a web app up and running in > > a few minutes. > > > > That was the appeal of ruby and rails as far as I can make out. > > > So, the point of the assignment (which is to show how Perl has moved on > in the last 10 years) is going to be "after 10 years, we now can do what > Ruby on Rails can"? You'd be surprised how large the group is then who don't realise that yes, Perl can do these things. A young web developer said on a forum recently, "Perl is too old for me." He uses C#/.NET. Let's change his perception. -Mallory
Writing about Perl FOR WEBDEVS
Hallo all, I've decided to throw this out here since there's plenty of passionate Perl people here. Planning on cross-posting to blogs.perl.org too. I'm on a forum that caters mainly to web developers (sitepoint.com/forums) where Perl languishes in a darkened cobwebbed corner for no good reason. I know the community has been focussing efforts on StackOverflow, reddit, PerlMonks and ycombinator. I also saw davorg's question regarding Linux Magazine articles (which sound indeed like they'd make more sense targetting sysadmins). I'm planning on getting some people (anyone who is interested) in writing some "mini-articles" about things where Perl benefits web developers (things like Plack, frameworks, not so much mail servers and things). By mini-article I mean, about the amount of content you'd see at a typical YAPC talk. With diagrams would be great (thinking of the Plack diagrams I saw which were done by Miyagawa, excellent). I hope that these mini-articles, talking about what a web dev can do with Perl, will start bringing some attention of these forum-goers to Perl and basically that Perl offers just as much as other, more hipstery languages (*not* to try to convince anyone that it's better, only that it's actually really truly an OPTION). Web devs don't know they can do the same things in Perl. They think web sites who run Perl do so because they are too old and full of legacy to switch to something "better". I think more general web developers deciding to learn and use Perl is good for Perl and good for companies who use Perl in their web development. If/as discussion or questions (hopefully) show up in the threads where these mini-articles are posted, I would love to have Perl people be available and able to answer these, or add to the discussion. Gabor has offered to start things off with a mini about Setting Up A Blog Site Using Dancer. I plan to edit it as best I can and change it to BB-code for forum styling, and post it. I don't know how this is going to go. I don't know if interest will appear, or how long it would take for that to happen (but I am already assuming it will take a bit of time... I'm planning on trying this out for 6 months), and I don't expect Perl people to sign up for this forum and watch for stuff. Instead I hope someone at the forums can/will create a bot whose account is "subscribed" to these threads with mini-articles. The forum automatically updates subscribed members in various ways that there's been a new post on such threads. If this bot could either email those in the Perl community who are interested, and/or post a link to the thread in some central Perl area where most of you guys frequent, that would be best. I want that IF there is interest, questions, whatever, that there are experienced Perl people ready to offer answers and further insight. This would mean signing up an account at the forums in order to post, but with a bot in place there would be no pressure to continue logging in to see if someone replied (though you can also set up that you get an email if someone replies to just your subscribed threads). If anyone knows anyone who would likely be interested in this project and is not on the London.pm list, please pass this on. Dave Sherohman has started helping someone with a particular Perl problem, and that's very nice of him and I really appreciate it. I don't have much (any) Perl knowledge so unfortunately while I have the passion for bringing Perl to web developers as just-as-much-an option-as-Python-Ruby-PHP-C#... I can't do this alone. But I am not asking folks here to do what Dave is doing unless you want to. I'm asking that you spread the word on this project/experiment for me, and I'm also hoping anything recently blogged about that would interest web developers would also make good articles if the authors are willing to allow (possibly edited or shortened?) versions to be posted on these forums. I believe that anyone who thinks it's a good thing to bring Perl back to the web developer's table (it should be there along with the other options!) would find this a nice place to try it, as SitePoint forums gets a non-trivial number of visits from people in various positions in web development. Also there are some whispers that, were Perl to get a decent amount of attention/interest from forum-goers (I would only think this could happen months after starting this project), that the company SitePoint itself would indeed consider having Perl articles on their main article pages. They haven't had these in about a decade, where the last articles I could find were a review of Simon Cozens' book and something about setting up very simple CGI and a form mail thing. Yikes. I'm just very open to ideas. Gabor is willing to start this, but we hope to find others interested in joining and trying the same thing. I have NO idea how or if this will work. I have decided that if after several months this is a dead end, I will kill the project and rec
Re: Writing about Perl FOR WEBDEVS
Leo, I LOVE the Plack talk that went with those slides. As someone who does no Perl, they were awesome, they made sense, and they were exciting. Would love something that brought text to that, and selected slides added as images/references. Also love that those diagrams show many other Perl frameworks in existence as well as the different servers (I had never heard of Starman before the talk). The DB/ORM paper... I think the topic is a good example of something to write about. I would like to make it "friendlier" (as in, starts out with You're a web developer with such and such busy site and you have a DB and you are crawling through SQl (or whatever, in other words, the problem common to developers clearly stated), then on to the meat of the article. So I may try to think up topics that would make most sense for these web dev forums (gonna ask the Programming Team over there what kinds of common problems they/devs encounter and what kinds of solutions they tend to use... because then we know which Perl solutions are good to introduce/write about). I like that perl.org has such a list. cheers, Mallory On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 11:10:02AM +0100, Leo Lapworth wrote: > Have you seen http://www.perl.org/about/whitepapers/ - might be a useful > start > (also I'd be interested in publishing any new papers there), but VERY mini > > > By mini-article I mean, about the amount of content you'd > > see at a typical YAPC talk. With diagrams would be great (thinking > > of the Plack diagrams I saw which were done by Miyagawa, excellent). > > > > I've taken Miyagawa's and added some more: > http://www.slideshare.net/ranguard/plack-basics-for-perl-websites-yapceu-2011 > feel free to use the stuff I've added if it helps, the same with > > http://www.slideshare.net/ranguard/dbixclass-introduction-2010 > > Hope that helps. > > Cheers > > Leo
Re: London.pm Sichuan TianFu Buyi Thursday 1pm
Hippy beerday to you sir! -Mallory On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:04:53AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: > Hmm... that would be on my birthday? Within walking distance of where > I work? I think it likely that I shall be there.
Perl e-commerce?
Hello all, I was looking around at popular e-commerce setups like Magento and Zend Cart. And I realised most of these are PHP based, for whatever reason. Is there a (decent, maintained) Perl-based e-commerce platform out there? I've found lists of "scripts" (as they called them) for things like groupin clones, pay button scripts, and things like Aardvark... but there isn't much information about what all comes with this, and the information I do find is pretty old (2004). Also preferably free and open source, unless there's a really good paid-for or closed version. I can find plenty of, for example, shops running Magento and I can see (as a user) what all comes with that. Can someone point me to a site or resource that really compares Perl e-commerce packages to these popular PHP ones? Something that describes all that they come with and what merchants can and cannot do with them, without having to actually install all of these and try setting them up just to see? Like, a review site. Thanks, Mallory
Re: Perl e-commerce?
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 10:37:55AM +0100, James Laver wrote: > On 14 Sep 2011, at 10:11, Mallory van Achterberg wrote: > > > Is there a (decent, maintained) Perl-based e-commerce platform > > out there? > > No. > > > I can find plenty of, for example, shops running Magento and I can > > see (as a user) what all comes with that. > > Even themeing magento is a pain in the arse, let alone extending it. > I ask for danger money to work with it and even still I get fed up of > recruiters calling offering nearly-danger-money. It's horrible and > hateful and I never want to work with it again. Yes, I actually got acquainted with Firebug solely for dealing with Magento front-end. And the reliance on Javascript to do things that belong to HTML, CSS and the server was gross. Yet people use it. > > Can someone point me to a site or resource that really compares > > Perl e-commerce packages to these popular PHP ones? Something > > that describes all that they come with and what merchants can and > > cannot do with them, without having to actually install all of these > > and try setting them up just to see? Like, a review site. > > Don't trust any of them. And then suffer the PHP and buy cubecart > or similar (the open source ones all have their various major > failing, mostly around security, which is what i expect most of > these 'scripts' will suffer from). > However, I do have a private project going on to create a large, > open source perl e-commerce platform, it just hasn't gotten very > far off the ground. My background is in e-commerce, so I've seen > how most platforms fall apart :) Does this project contain a front-end like most of the popular shopping carts have? Or plan to? (I hope that if it does, that at least it doesn't make the mistake of overly-complicated, Javascript-dependent fixed-width crap the others do) My question isn't because I'm personally looking for a shopping cart to use myself, or for a client (at least, not yet). My question is because, I see it as another reason web developers don't even consider Perl for these things. Which makes no sense to me. Suppose you're running Perl on your server for other things, and then you want a regular, normal, supported e-commerce system? Crap, now you've got Perl and PHP running and fighting with each other. Waste. If I knew a client wanted a site, and decided on, say, Dancer, and knew they wanted later on to add a shop... cheers, Mallory
Re: Perl e-commerce?
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:48:06PM +0100, James Laver wrote: > ZenCart is a fork of OSCommerce that does not fix the horrible security > holes. Don't use either of these. Isn't Magento as well? (a fork of OS Commerce) -Mallory
Re: Perl e-commerce?
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:36:23PM +0100, Peter Edwards wrote: > Imagine a graphic designer who designs sites for customers and can cope with > FTPing some PHP files to a server and hacking a bit on the code - but not > much more. > Probably doesn't know how to use ssh or Unix shell commands. Graphic designers are not front-end (nor back-end) web developers. They should only be tweaking skins and themes, and they don't need to know ssh for that. Wanna-be's who've gotten their hands on a copy of dreambeaver are not the folks I'm talking about. > That's why PHP is used, the barrier to entry is low enough for them to be > able to do a site on their own, and I would guess the majority of small > e-commerce sites are written by such people. > Magento isn't limited to small mom and pop shops. It's like the blob: getting larger with every customer. Currently I know someone who has decided to focus on Magento work, even though he's no fan of it or PHP. The amount of work it takes to get that thing off the ground is non- trivial, and you can get paid a lot of money even for just being able to fix "front-end" stuff. I've been told by the guy for whom I do a bit of Magento front-end debugging that I could earn nicely just by hanging around their (Magento) forums. Yuck, but shows it's popular. > Another case to imagine is you do a shop for your client and then suddenly > they want to change to a different payment provider. Or start offering some > complicated coupon and rebate scheme for good customers. An existing large > and popular cart product probably has a plugin they pick up off the web and > stick on to do it with little or no coding. No coding == no cost of testing. > They charge the customer £200 and it's straight profit. If you had to spend > half a day hacking on Perl code to do it, it's cost you more money and > you'll have an irate client when their customers start hitting the bugs > (which will inevitably be there to start with). Discounts for customers, multiple payment systems, rebate schemes? Frankly, these should be default in anything that wants to call itself cart software, but that's just me. The programmer dealing with it should be capable, and don't think people don't have to play around with PHP to get these carts to change stuff, but I don't see the automatic benefit of having only the shell of a system that constantly needs a lot of hacking just to have what many merchants would consider basic, necessary functionality. Why constantly rewrite things. **in general, so not a specific reply to anyone** I want to know: why, when I go to YAPCs, I hear people talk about marketing and "Perl echo chamber" when it looks like few people are interested in making stuff that people want? It doesn't have to be moronic, or insecure. I suppose ideally it wouldn't need half of CPAN either... -where are the Worpresses, the Drupals, the Joomla!s? (WP might be easy, Joomla! might be complete garbage, but Drupal is neither easy nor trivial... and yet Dave's blog with MT can't find someone who can give us links to previous blogs??) -where are the Magentos, the ZendCarts, the OsCommerces? Sometimes I think the push for marketing is misguided. You can't market what you don't have. Not everyone choosing a certain blogging platform, a certain CMS, a certain cart software is doing it because they want the sleaziest way out (though free helps). I don't think there's any reason to write that area off, either. Not all PHP developers are morons who can't write in other languages. They are writing the language that earns them clients, the language that works with 1and1 or GoDaddy or whatever. I also think it's unrealistic to think everyone should pay top-dollar just to have a dedicated server or VPS. Why not have some of this marketing fervour directed at getting popular hosting companies to work better with non-PHP languages? Even when they have Perl on board, it sounds like it's often outdated. I'm going to check out Denny's ShinyCMS though, and I'm eager to see what James comes up with. Thanks for the responses, everyone. I was hoping I'd missed something. cheers, Mallory
Re: Perl e-commerce?
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 02:49:16PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: > [Donate here: https://secure.donor.com/pf012/give > Evil page "source" prevents me from even finding out if there's a way to > anchor to the "Perl 5 Core" section, which is below the fold] > > Nicholas Clark Not sure what you mean by page source, except there ISN'T any without JS (arg, pet peeve of mine), but no, without an id or possibly an old-fashioned name attribute on the box in question, you cannot jump to the part of the page in question. The boxes only seem to have classes. Though since Javascript is creating absolutely everything for whatever reason, I suppose it could add an id to that box dynamically. -Mallory
Re: Perl e-commerce?
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 03:54:38PM +0200, Richard Foley wrote: > I think you've hit the nail on the head, Mallory, "where are the Wordpresses, > the Drupals, the Joomlas?..." indeed. It's easy to sneer at "just some web > thingy", but actually it's quite hard to make something both flexible and > robust and performant and maintainable. From what I've seen of Catalyst > recently, (and I've been kind of thrust into using it), it's heading in > exactly the right kind of direction that's going to promote (post-)modern > Perl > practices into a working business environment. *IF* we build "what people > want". I want to note that those all have tens if not hundreds of developers. I follow some people working on Drupal Core and unlike a Perl module, it can't have one or two maintainers. Benevolent dictator, maybe, but a Perly Drupal would need a *lot* of people. So it's not a question of one person saying ok, let's do it. But I see it's more than one person worried about marketing, or getting new developers into Perl, etc. Catalyst is a good start. It really is. Now I want to see Dancer and Mojolicious get going as they target different types of developers (Catalyst is rather huge. Dancer is pretty small and quick. Mojolicious has wiki capability). > You can see the (programming and marketing) success of Perl in more or less > shrink-wrapped applications like RT, where there are books on the topic, and > managers have heard of it, and want it, and will pay people to customize it. > Whether you and I like it or not is irrelevant, the point is RT, (for > example), has a footprint. There used to be a myriad of Perl web apps. > Where > are they now? Why haven't they stood the test of time? Can we claw some of > that market back, now people are finding how there is no silver-bullet in > PHP, > Ruby and Java. Is this a time to take advantage of a pause, is this that > second moment of opportunity? If so, what will we do with it? Personally, I'd like to see Python and Ruby do the same. From what I read on forums and the such, they've had similar issues regarding hosting. I may be wrong but I thought Python created PSGI specifically because mod_python was so not working well on Apache. So they thought, screw catering to one server, we should work well with all of them. Great. M0aR! Plack is really valuable to have here. -Mallory
Re: Perl e-commerce?
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 08:23:26PM +0100, Sue Spence wrote: > I am not an expert in this area but it seems to me that you are > looking at one particular aspect of one segment of the "e-commerce" > market and extrapolating far too much from that. Some hypotheses have > already been advanced as to why Perl might not be as competitive as it > used to be in that arena. That doesn't mean it isn't used in medium - > large - enterprise environments. I have certainly seen it in the last > one. > > Furthermore, even if Perl no longer has a place in e-commerce, which > isn't true*, I don't believe you could infer that Perl marketing > efforts are a bad idea or doomed to fail or that Perl itself is > utterly b0rk3n and needs somebody to hurry up and fix it. > > If I have misinterpreted your message then I apologise in advance. > > > *Unless Venda has gone out of business :-) No, I'm not talking about large enterprise environments. I'm talking about what most web developers, even for larger media bureaus, tend to use when their clients, for whom they've built a web site (in PHP, C#/.NET, Python or Ruby) and find that if they weren't using PHP or .NET to begin with, now they do so they can build a Magento system or whatever for them (since I notice there are a good number of ASP/.NET carts out there too, both free and paid). Because paid-for carts are harder to sell to clients who point to the open source and free-as-in-beer stuff and ask, "why not one of those?" So yes, I'm looking at one particular aspect of e-commerce, the part people in my job tend to interact with. My own bosses here were looking very long at Magento but ultimately decided they wanted m0aR control so even though we're using PHP we ended up building Yet Another E-Commerce System. Lawlz.
Re: Where are the Perl Wordpresses, the Drupals, the Joomlas? (was Perl e-commerce?)
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 09:50:37AM +0200, Zbigniew Łukasiak wrote: > It's worth noting that Wordpress was at least initially perceived to > be a 'free' answer to, then dominating, Perl based MovableType. > MovableType is now GPL > (https://github.com/movabletype/movabletype/blob/master/COPYING) - so > why it did not gain back at least some of Wordpress popularity? > Shared hosting is probably the main reason - but surely not the only > one. Well, there'd be at least two parties involved much of the time who decide what to use for what. For simple blogging software and whatnot, Wordpress is touted for several things: 1, of course it's free. This is almost a minor point with powerful stuff like Drupal also being free though, along with a bazillion other OS platforms. 2, it's touted as easy, and this is partially because WP started out as very limited. A sort of Bloxom/Jekyll-ish thing. It's much bigger by now, people are even trying to use it for e-commerce, but it has that simple roots. 3, themes. People who know little more than the WP system itself and know a graphics program make, for fun, for free, and sometimes for profit, WP themes. So it's both attracting themers AND end-users like that if they don't like one theme, there are a bazillion others to choose from. MT seems more complicated overall that WP. Now, Drupal is hideously complicated. People are willing to learn it because they hear it's powerful. Maybe that would be MT's selling point more? > > I have my own hypothesis that maybe Perl applications would be more > popular, at least among Perl programmers, if they were more like perl > modules. If you could just 'cpanm My::App' and then 'run_in_plack > My::App' to check it out. The problem here is with packaging all the > non-code stuff into the distribution to make the application fully > encapsulated. There is File::ShareDir for this - but it is not very > popular and what follows it has still some rough edges (like using it > when running the tests), and there are multiple other problems that > wait for good solutions. I am working on this in my own blog engine: > https://github.com/zby/Nblog It would be good to know (from blog posts or something) what issues someone comes across when they just want to get X up and running. Does IronMan do topic initiatives? Like, get a bunch of people to try doing X, and writing about their experiences? Kinda like that post I read a while back on trying Stacato with ActiveState cloud by Ricardo Signes. This would point out various issues to anyone else who would be interested in solving them, so people don't go fixing parts that most found pretty easy. cheers, Mallory
Re: Perl e-commerce?
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:43:21AM +0100, 'lesleyb' wrote: > > I may be wrong but I thought Python created PSGI specifically because > > mod_python was so not working well on Apache. So they thought, screw > > catering to one server, we should work well with all of them. > > > When I look up PSGI I get Perl Web Server Gateway ... not Python ? My bad, I meant WSGI. Was thinking too Perly. -Mallory
Re: [ANNOUNCE] London Perl Workshop: Newsletter #2
Plastered in the Perl forums at SitePoint. http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?784831-London-Perl-Workshop!-Saturday-12-November-2011 I'm hoping to make it!! -Mallory
Re: Perl in shared hosting environments
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 05:18:52PM -0700, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa wrote: > http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/h6qqr/the_psgi_is_the_limit/ has > an amusing comment thread about the performance and benefit of PSGI > over existing wrappers like CGI.pm, started by "shi4" - you might need > to click the thread to collapse to read the whole thread. I read that, and while shi4 got a lot of downvotes and kinda looks like he's arguing for argument's sake, this was excellent. His questions really dig into what you can do with PSGI w/wo Plack... instead of letting it get buried into reddit history, it ought to get copied somewhere that talks about Plack/PSGI since it answers so much. This guy was apparently willing to take downvotes to push his initial view that he didn't see how all this was in any way better than CGI.pm etc. Surely there are dozens of others who thought the same but wouldn't post. At least, I can see in the later posts where the guy really learned something, and had had some misconceptions cleared up. -Mallory
LPW... couch surfing?
Hallo all, was wondering if there would be any possibility of couch-surfing over there in London for the Workshop (Friday and Saturday nights). It would be two of us (jkva says he's housebroken) and we haven't determined how late we'd be getting into London as some methods of transport are earlier but very expensive, while others are cheaper but then we get into town much later (maybe too late). Ideally Friday night would be at someone's who is also planning to hit the pub or wherever is planned for the night before (Google Maps is claiming The Kings Arms is closed permanently, is this so?). We would be willing to offer some Dutch treats (of the legal sort) and beers if that would be appreciated. Any offers? Let me know! Thanks, Mallory (and Job)
Re: Perl Skills Test
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 01:56:14PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:13:28AM +0100, Ian Knopke wrote: > Auntie also engenders a warm fluffy feeling, like having your > trousers full of kittens... > That sounds... painful actually. -Mallory
Re: Dim sum Tuesday 12:30pm at Pearl Liang (with Jesse)
Oh oh, sounds tasty... and I just happen to be getting into London at about noon, so I may be a bit late but I'll be there! -Mallory On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:55:49PM +, Leon Brocard wrote: > Yet again it's time for dim sum!
Re: Any Fedex Guru here - Need to find the expected Fedex refund due to delays from Fedex side
Fedex uses Perl? On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:17:57PM +0530, abhishek jain wrote: > Dear Friends, > I have tracking numbers and a developer a/c from fedex, i need to know is > there a way where i can find the refund fedex should give as per their > policy, due to delays in shipment from Fedex. > I have searched on google there is a lot of companies which provide such a > service, but i need to develop that for one of my client, and there is no > such api from Fedex. > > > -- > Thanks and kind Regards, > Abhishek jain > +91 9971376767
Re: YAPC::Europe is 20-22 August in Frankfurt
Yay! On another note, how do I stop myself from showing up wearing this awesome T-shirt: http://hipsterhitler.com/store/batter-of-the-bulge-t-shirt/ -Mallory On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:36:21AM +, Nicholas Clark wrote: > YAPC::Europe now has dates! > > It's Monday 20th to Wednesday 22nd August (in Frankfurt am Main, Germany) > > It's at the Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Universität, which isn't that far > from the central station, and (like the rest of Frankfurt) is 120km from > the lie that Ryanair fly to. > > Location: http://j.mp/xIyqQN > Registration: http://act.yapc.eu/ye2012/register > > No call for papers (yet) or prices, but I'd guess that the latter is 100 > Euros. BA fly from City to Frankfurt, which is probably nicer than most > of the other options. > > Nicholas Clark
Re: Laptop Recommendation
Hi, Whenever you find what you like, let us know. When looking for a 13" laptop last fall things sucked... if you wanted Linux. I ended up with a Sony Vaio VPC SB2 series, with problems. Why: Many of the cheaper laptops I would have considered ran Optimus. Optimus is great... if you run Windows. http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/09/nvidia-there-is-no-optimus-support-for.html Unfortunately the advantages of power management and nice graphics have made this really popular. I also wanted a CD drive (optical disk). Not common under 15". Stay away from Sonys if you care about power management. They come with Sony software (on Windows) that manages it for you... and doesn't offer Linux any way to see these things. Older models of what I have now did offer access to things like the fan, but by my model, that was gone. Touchpad control is gone (typing sucks) and fan control is gone. Sony claimed 8 hours unplugged. Most testers saw 5 hours. But with Linux it's a little over an hour. With the extra battery slice it's about 2 hours. I have to say, I otherwise really like the thing. :( It had great weight for its screen (1.7kg), has USB2 and 3 slots (4 in total), HDMI (no idea what I would even use that for), VGA, SD card slot, HD DVD "magic gate" (I don't use computers for media so no idea what that's for either) and the extended battery slice basically adds a little thin layer to the bottom of the laptop and weighed 520g. Also the optical drive was a big plus: for Virtual Box, Windows7 was on a disc. Linux Mint Debian Edition was also on a disc. My music is on discs. Easier. If you registered it (I needed it working quickly, and Windoze .NET errors prevented me from making rescue discs, so registering was useless for me) for 270E or so you could have 3 years' warrenty and on-site too. Registery had issues though: you had to call tech support in the "region" you were registered in or something weird. So if you were at a conference in Frankfurt :) but had registered in UK it would probably suck. This is from memory of reading about registering. -Mallory On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 12:51:48PM +, Smylers wrote: > Hello. Anybody like to recommend a laptop? > > (Or a sane website for searching for laptops by criteria I care about, > rather than first making me pick which sub-brand of laptop I want or > define what sort of customer I am?) > > I'm hoping that finding somebody who already owns something along the > following lines will be less painful than my previous approach of > interrogating various websites -- which surely should be trying to take > my money -- into providing useful information about what they're > selling: > > * weight less than 1.5 kg > * screen about 12" > * decent touchpad (see below) > * SD card slot > * Bluetooth > * VGA port > * 3-years' on-site support (or preferably 4) > * decent amount of memory > * solid-state hard disk > > I really liked the Synaptics touchpad in the Dell X300 I bought 8 years > ago. I didn't realise how good this was until I replaced that computer > with a Dell D430 4 years later: that came with an Alps touchpad > described as "Synaptics compatible" but in practice can't distinguish > gestures the Synaptics one could, such as between pressing 2 and 3 > fingers, and circular scrolling isn't as precise. > > Anybody got anything like that? > > The Dell Latitude E6220 looks like it might be a contender, but I > couldn't find the touchpad manufacturer in its technical specs. When my > previous 3-year warranty with them was expiring they offered the option > to purchase a 4th year; hopefully that would be the case here as well > (though I can't find anywhere which says that). Buying a Dell might have > the advantage of still being able to use my existing power supplies and > external DVD drive. > > The ThinkPad X220 also looks plausible. Anybody able to report on the > touchpad? Or whether they off warranty extensions to 4 years? > > With a MacBook Air it looks like I'd have to get the 13.3" model to get > an SD card slot (which might be either be a bit bigger than I want for > convenient packing or useful extra screen pixels for the same weight as > the competition). Anybody run Linux on one and able to report on the > touchpad? > > Apparently various other companies make laptops too, but finding out > about them was just too painful. Suggestions of any I should consider > welcome. > > Thanks in advance. > > Smylers > -- > http://twitter.com/Smylers2
Re: Laptop Recommendation
I've been trying out Xfce with Mint-Debian on the Sony. It's lighter than Gnome, yet uses the same base as Gnome so I can run all my Gnome stuff easily. But there are also lots of very annoying little bugs, many of which are listed on the site. -Mallory On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 08:56:00PM +, Smylers wrote: > Though I think the Ubuntu inconveniences are generally restricted > specifically to the Unity desktop environment, not the underlying OS. > I've given LXDE a brief try, and may well switch to that soon.
Re: Laptop Recommendation
My 17" Acer TravelMate 7720G has been running Ubuntu(s) very happily with no power management problems. No, 17" and 6 kilos or whatever it is shouldn't be called "travel-" anything, but it's basically good old Acers being fairly Linux friendly. Has also ATI Radeon card for graphics, also no issues. Automatically reconnects to the network after waking it up, and the battery lasted pretty close to the specs back when it worked (after 4 years it finally died). But that Optimus is a bitch, because it was listed on over half the laptops I was looking at, specifically Acers :( Re Macs: if their hardware cost the same as a PC's, and I could run some distro of Linux I rather like... oh and then I'd need to replace anywhere a cable plugs in or pay 15 euros for all these special cables (a friend has a Mac Mini and this is an issue that always makes us raise our eyebrows). Oh and that Mac stuff only liked to work with other Mac stuff: hooking up a non-Mac monitor to the Mini meant Safari's RGB "correction" (along with their known gamma problem) makes sites' colours look like crap. Apparently Safari assumes Mac monitor settings. Getting a Mac is going into a whole different world. You have to be prepared to go the whole way if you want to take a single step in. -Mallory On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 10:34:05AM +, David Cantrell wrote: > At work I supposedly have a fully Linux-compatible laptop. It ain't. > In particular, suspend/resume *still* doesn't work properly at least ten > years after I first ran into this problem. > > If I close the lid on this laptop, then: > * it gets very hot so is presumably eating the battery; > * it doesn't re-connect to the network when I open it again; > * I need to restart X for the second monitor to work > > I suppose that's an improvement over how Linux used to be - Back In The > Day you had a 50/50 chance of needing to power-cycle after closing the > lid. > > Just get a Mac. > > -- > David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing
Re: Laptop Recommendation
Hm, I used a shop that sold laptops to get all my specs. It was laptopshop.nl run by a company called Cool Blue. So not English and not even in English, but every computer listed basic specs like weight, size, etc. Even more than for example the Sony website. Another site I used when looking was Alternate.nl, so also in Dutch but same story there, however they had a smaller selection of the size I was looking for. I suppose though you could type into either of those sites a machine you're looking at and find the specs there. Usually you can first sort either by screen size or brand name. At laptopshop.nl under the Home button there's one called 'Keuzehelp' (choice help), which takes you to a page where you can pick by schermsize (screen size) and gewicht (weight) on the left-hand side. -Mallory On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 09:10:05AM +, Smylers wrote: > But that's not the end. The summary doesn't include the weight, and, > incredibly, in some cases not even the screen size. So discovering which > of their laptops might be light enough includes clicking on each one in > turn. Hmmm, it doesn't look like any of their business laptops are light > enough for me. Despite them all having "travel" in their name.
Re: The proper way to open()
>or C-M-S-H-iaiacthulhu while kicking an aardvark in emacs. I thought that was the command that made coffee??
Re: Laptop Recommendation
On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 08:05:25AM +1300, Kent Fredric wrote: > On 24 January 2012 08:01, Mallory van Achterberg > wrote: > > Many of the cheaper laptops I would have considered ran Optimus. > > Optimus is great... if you run Windows. > > http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/09/nvidia-there-is-no-optimus-support-for.html > > I have an optimus laptop, and its not that bad. It takes a bit of > effort at present to get it working, but when you manage to get it > going, it works like a charm, and almost as good as it is in windows. > > https://github.com/Bumblebee-Project/Bumblebee > > ^ this runs as a daemon backgrounded with a seperate X session running > on the GPU. > > And then to run something accelerated, you have to prefix starting it > with a special command > > optirun ~/path/to/minecraft.sh > > for example. > > Its not supported stock anywhere yet that I can see, but there is > certainly hope. > > Its certainly bloody good considering Nvidia are refusing to support > it on Linux. > > -- > Kent It wasn't just the idea that Optimus wasn't going to support Linux, but also the many reports on forums where people had gotten machines before they knew better. Some folks had graphics while others had something horrible and unusable. Since I once was in a store and we used an Ubuntu 6 disc to check support and we saw absolutely no graphics at all (the machine was an MSIE I believe, and OpenSuse ended up having no problems at all with it) and that's scary if you're ordering a machine online rather than having it in your hands in a shop. -Mallory
Re: Brainbench perl test?
On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 10:31:49AM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: > On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 10:23:21AM +0100, Jasper wrote: > > Python seems to handle big integers much better (that is a complete > > Python newbie's POV). Maybe you could switch language ;) > > But to Python 2, or Python 3? That is the question. > Bigints are builtins and so far as I've heard, and after some 2.x version all ints are longs automatically if needed. Python will just go until it eats all your memory :)
Re: Wanted: Speakers for London.pm Technical Meeting
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 05:20:48PM +0100, Mike Whitaker wrote: > On 16 Oct 2012, at 17:19, Dave Cross wrote: > > I think this one sounds really interesting. I'd love to hear it. > > Seconded. Thirded! And yes, both aspects (technical and community).
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 04:09:32PM +, Dave Cross wrote: > Quoting Simon Dick : > > >On 20 November 2012 15:45, Uri Guttman wrote: > > [ snip ] > > >>in that vein you should also mention matt's scripts. evil code but they > >>helped perl gain massive numbers of users. many were kiddies but some > >>actually learned perl. > > > >Especially FormMail.pl... I remember that one well... > > If anyone is unaware of the London Perl Mongers' reaction to Matt's > scripts, you should probably read > http://www.scriptarchive.com/nms.html > > Dave... Doesn't matter; I see time and time again that people look at the copyright years on the pages. matt's updates automatically, so newbs still ask "well nms is 2006 and matt's is 2012 so it's more updated right?" (see sitepoint forums, where unwary noobs sometimes think is a place to ask Perl questions even though it absolutely isn't...). -Mallory
Re: Kindle Fire
Kindles, watch out. http://www.bekkelund.net/2012/10/22/outlawed-by-amazon-drm/ This is why people crack DRM: to prevent Amazon from stealing your books you've paid for. Though you are in the UK which makes a world of difference, but I don't know where this partner of a friend lives. Since I follow the blind and low vision groups, all I hear is the complaining that the Kindle is pretty much the only major e-reader that doesn't work with VoiceOver (the screen reader that comes with OSX/iOS). So this also doesn't affect you (I don't think), but to me these two things give Amazon and Kindles a negative light that I haven't heard of with Nexus. Things like weight and how the partner likes to read may factor in (do they like holding a book up with one hand? or is two normally used? Would they be bothered by the UI or is it so good they wouldn't even notice it?) more than anything else. -Mallory On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 04:28:26PM +, Mark Keating wrote: > I would like some informed opinion on the Kindle Fire, a friend is > thinking of buying one as a gift for a partner, I could use the > review sites but I don't know those people, I do know and like (hey > LPW is still bubbling through my veins forgive the crush) you > people. > > So, good idea, bad idea? Is there something better for the same-ish > cost that isn't breaking the bank iPad mini level (I like the Nexus > personally but don't own one). > > Your responses are thanked for in advance. > > -mdk > > -- > Mark Keating, Writer, Photographer, Cat-Herder. > Managing Director: http://www.shadow.cat > For more that I do visit: http://www.mdk.me >
Re: Perl outreach
Kinda in the wrong sub-thread, but someone over in Python posted this bit from Guido's keynote, just a few moments' discussion about "other languages" and the "my language is better than yours" stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBRMq2Ioxsc#t=5m20s Just thought it was interesting. :) -Mallory
Re: Perl outreach
Some great points and feedback. I know Mithaldu is working on renewed Perl tutorials and there is Gabor's stuff. One issue they have is trying to get their stuff higher in search results when people type in "Perl tutorial". -Mallory On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 01:47:32AM +, pierre masci wrote: > I was a total Perl newbie a year ago, so i can share how it was for me and > give a few ideas to make things better.
Re: return 0 or return bare
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 07:09:55PM +, Peter Sergeant wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Gareth Harper wrote:
>
> > On 12 December 2012 17:57, Joseph Werner wrote:
> > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Gareth Harper
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > PBP and I disagree with you on this one, Gareth. When a sub does a
> > > "return 0;" to a list context, that is interpreted as true. A bare
> > > "return;" is best practice.
> > >
> >
> > I stand corrected.
> >
>
> Don't stand corrected too quickly - the idea that you should always use a
> bare *return()* is far from universally accepted - you can bite yourself
> just as easily in reverse by using bare return, and getting an empty list
> where you expected a false or undefined value:
>
> https://gist.github.com/4270506
>
> The boolean argument is reaching, at best. Perl programmers frequently use
> numeric 0 as a false value, and yet no-one is saying you should write code
> like:
>
> sub lock_count {
> if ( $lock_counter ) {
> return $lock_counter;
> } else {
> return;
> }
> }
>
> "Just in case" someone has decided to take your input in to an array,
> before asking if lock_count is true.
>
> If you're using a bare return then all your returns should be
> *wantarray*dependent, or you're making the code even less predictable
> - making the
> *return* of an undefined value the only context-dependent *return* in a sub
> is crazy talk!
>
> The simple rule here is: write functions that return either a list, or a
> scalar, and not both, and be explicit in your function documentation which
> you're expecting to return.
>
> -P
Aaron Crane had a nice talk about this at YAPC::EU and London Perl Workshop
http://programming.tudorconstantin.com/2012/11/london-perl-workshop-2012.html
Not sure if he has slides somewhere, but he specifically went after some stuff
in Damian's book.
-Mallory
Re: cpan you have to see
Ug, what I get for sending a mail while still browsing it :P -Mallory
Re: PHP "community"
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 03:08:39PM +, gvim wrote: > PHP UK (22nd Feb.): £380 > London Perl Workshop: £0 > > 'nuff said. > > gvim But but but... nettuts says 2013 IS TEH YEAR OF PHP YO! You know, in celebration of getting generators and traits and a packaging system that sucks less or something. http://net.tutsplus.com/articles/editorials/why-2013-is-the-year-of-php/
Perl articles? [was: New perl features?]
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 05:00:55PM +0100, Philippe Bruhat (BooK) wrote: > On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 07:00:32AM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > > > "Dave" == Dave Cross writes: > > > > Dave> Does anyone pay for Perl articles these days? :-) Sorry, I lost Dave's original message. It's possible SitePoint.com would pay for Perl articles. They are finally starting to almost get serious about Ruby. Would be a welcome change from PHP and Adobe adoration. -mallory
Re: Raising Perl awareness on Tiobe + Wikipedia, etc.
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 04:58:38PM +0800, AJ Dhaliwal wrote: >... > Good points. I wonder about node.js. JS was designed to be a > scripting language. Aren't they pushing it too far with node.js? I > admit I have only heard about it and don't have an in depth > understanding of their approach. Javascript has a dark and sordid past, but today it's finally getting on-par with most other programming languages. Getting MVC and testing frameworks and 1.8 adding basic things Javascript lacked since forever for example. They've even added in Python's list comprehensions and generators, though I haven't seen anyone using those yet. -Mallory
Re: Raising Perl awareness on Tiobe + Wikipedia, etc.
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 09:07:43AM +, James Laver wrote: > > * The one where I didn't spend the entire time being heckled by people who've > been programming perl since the 0.1 release. The one where I had the audience > chanting "web scale" at me. Such fun. WEB SCALE
Re: Raising Perl awareness on Tiobe + Wikipedia, etc.
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 01:00:04PM +0800, AJ Dhaliwal wrote: > AFAIK JS was first created to manipulate the HTML DOM. Then > Microsoft invented AJAX and that is what really pushed JS into the > limelight. So JS had a very limited defined role as scripting > language in its beginning. Maybe "JUST a scripting language" is not > too far off a description. Brenden Eich wrote the story of how it came to be and it's intersting enough. It was a Self-y and Scheme-y beginning that within the "10 days" it was written, was forced to be "like Java", cause that was the hip thing. Of course since he let his old blog break I can't find it, but there is further comment on there.[1] True, it wasn't like Perl's attempt to be a better bash/sed/awk/C/ whatever. More of a easy Java for those nephews who can write HTML. However Javascript, while starting out lacking a lot, today has filled in many of the gaps. It never fixed its basic retardation, but libraries exist to fix it. There's some excellent Javascript (and Ruby) derp-demonstration in the WAT video: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat > I just remembered that Mozilla uses JS for their chrome so I may > have just invalidated my first sentence. It will take too much > trouble to change it so better just leave it there.Bran Mozilla never lost their love affair with Javascript and are one of the main developers, working on Harmony right now. It was integral to XUL (of which there is only, as there is no Dana) and yeah, the Firefox OS has parts (or all of it?) built entirely out of HTML, CSS and Javascript. Or so I heard in a rumourz on teh interwebs. -Mallory [1] https://brendaneich.com/2008/04/popularity/
Re: Raising Perl awareness on Tiobe + Wikipedia, etc.
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 09:17:14AM +, James Laver wrote: > On 21 Mar 2013, at 08:08, Mallory van Achterberg > wrote: > > > However Javascript, while starting out lacking a lot, today has filled > > in many of the gaps. It never fixed its basic retardation, but > > libraries exist to fix it. > > JavaScript is an implementation detail of jQuery*. If something similar > existed to make non-DOM JS less painful, perhaps I wouldn't despise node.js > so much. > > /j > * oh of course I have a list of rants about jQuery, glad you asked. Let's > start with position:relative being assumed when you do .show(). Among *many* > others. Wow, it really is like perl. Ah, jQuery, something I try to avoid except when I can't. http://www.doxdesk.com/updates/2009.html#u20091116-jquery Some more rants to add to your list. I was unhappy to discover that, since all my DOM stuff was already in jQuery objects, I no longer even had the option of stuff like input.checked. I won't deny lots of things are easier, they're just a whole lot bigger. So there ends up being lots of plain Javascript in my jQuery when $work says "here we do jQuery". Instead of, say, jQuip. -Mallory
Re: jQuery
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:41:47AM +, Smylers wrote:
> Mallory van Achterberg writes:
>
> > Ah, jQuery, something I try to avoid except when I can't.
> > http://www.doxdesk.com/updates/2009.html#u20091116-jquery
>
> Thanks for that. Is there any decent combined documentation for
> JavaScript + jQuery, pointing to whichever of the two is superior for a
> particular task?
No, but if you want to know what's slower in jQuery, find the
discussion forums over at their main servers, where people tend
to point these things out. api.jquery.com
In general the jQuery documentation isn't bad, and often like over
at Python docs some functions are spelled out in an example (how one
would build this function) so you can see how some of these functions
are implemented.
It's slower in that, for every time you do a
$(#foo) call, that's still Javascript in the browser converting to
document.getElementById('foo')
and whenever you've got $(this), you're re-calling a new this each time
(so you'll see lots of people do
var $(this) = $this
which looks weird until you know why).
By the way, I consider myself knowing a wee bit of Javascript and
even less of jQuery. In fact I'm mostly knowing "I need to do x" and
DuckDuckGO "how to do x in jquery" to find the name of the right
function. Then I read up more on the function to learn its caveats.
StackOverflow sometimes also has people mentioning good tidbits about
particular functions.
>
> I've been liking using jQuery for little bits of (optional) user
> interface polish, but keep being caught out by not knowing proper
> JavaScript (or Dom).
If you want to use straight JS, knowing the DOM and browser quirks
is essential. Like that when you do form.elements, webkits won't
count the fieldset as a form element while everyone else will. So
the numbers won't match if you're counting them.
I do use always the Core library ("library" is a big word there) by
Simon Willison and others, used by SitePoint way back when, simply
to make "this" work in IE and targets/event listeners. When I write
straight JS I mean.
> Sometimes I'm surprised by jQuery not having a way of solving a
> particular task, only then to discover that JavaScript itself has a way
> of doing it (so jQuery doesn't need to). But it doesn't seem much fun to
> learn all of JavaScript, including the awkward parts that I don't need
> to know because jQuery does them better, in order to find these.[*1]
>
> Indeed, it seems to defeat much of the purpose of a nice easy-to-use
> abstraction layer if to use it you need to first know the awkward
> low-level way.
The jQuery guys themselves are big JS nerds of course. I think it's
okay for them to assume users know JS: jQuery is like using a calculator
to Get Shit Done after learning how to do long division on paper.
That said, there are a lot of "developers" on the front end who say they
"do Javascript" and by that they mean they only know jQuery. More than
I know, but not one bit of plain Javascript.
>
> > So there ends up being lots of plain Javascript in my jQuery when
> > $work says "here we do jQuery".
>
> Which things would you say are better in JavaScript? What should I
> learn?
Normally people would say, learn Javascript before using jQuery. Some
basic JS concepts can bite you even through jQuery, where other times
jQuery does stuff completely different.
Example: when you grab a bunch of items, say list items in a list, in
JS, you have a node list. Which is array-like but not an array.
Using stuff in jQuery like .children() or whatever usually does give
you an array. This affects which methods you can use on your list if
you're switching between the two.
Still regularly seeing newbies calling a function from within a loop
and then getting surprised when only the last item in the loop got
the change... which is in Javascript 101 and jQuery doesn't prevent
the need for a closure or something there (rename your iterator
variable).
Sometimes Javascript is just quicker because I'm avoiding making new
jQuery objects (which is what you normally do with everything to
get the syntax and DOM shortcuts you like).
>
> > Instead of, say, jQuip.
>
> Oooh, what's that? Should I be using it instead of jQuery?
>
http://readwrite.com/2011/11/28/jquip-puts-jquery-on-a-diet
jQuery is large. Most devs don't care if it's a bit large,
until they start trying to send that crap to mobile or users
with crappy bandwidth... and if you're only calling the whole
of jQuery to get around small IE bugs or use a plugin, maybe
jQuip is the answer (or any of the mobile JS frameworks).
-Mallory
Re: jQuery
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 12:31:53PM +, James Laver wrote: > On 21 Mar 2013, at 12:04, Ben Evans wrote: > > > You should also get a copy of "Javascript - The Good Parts" by Douglas > > Crockford. > > Yes and no. Crockford has some interesting opinions. Particularly when it > comes to what makes good quality javascript (jslint is fundamentally broken > IMO). > > > My guys seem to like Angular.js as well. > > AngularJS has the bizarre glory of "daftest release names i've ever seen": > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AngularJS#Releases > > /j Good Parts is still an essential book to read, even if it's a lot of Crockford opinion. Like, I *do* like ++ incrementers, and miss them sorely in Python. For JSLint haters, there's JSHint. jshint.com -Mallory
Re: jQuery
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 08:40:36AM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > >>>>> "Mallory" == Mallory van Achterberg writes: > > Mallory> (so you'll see lots of people do > Mallory> var $(this) = $this > Mallory> which looks weird until you know why). > > And backwards. I'm sure you meant: > > var $this = $(this); Indeed. Even as I spent this evening changing someone's $thises to $thats, I didn't even think.
Re: npm, PyPi overtake CPAN
I was at the PyGrunn meeting in Groningen recently. Holger Krekel (https://twitter.com/hpk42) gave a talk about the problems of pypi and compared it to CPAN, and then showed some new work he was doing to help fix the multiple issues. He loves CPAN's searching, testing, multiple mirrors etc. He has slides but I haven't seen them published anywhere, but the praise for CPAN was great and mighty, and it's good for Python to see someone basically wants to make the Cheeseshop more like CPAN :) -Mallory
Another Comparison Of Programming Languages
Hey all, Hixie wrote up (or just posted from elsewhere) this http://ian.hixie.ch/programming/ This is going around the twitters. Wonder if some of the mistakes can be fixed. -Mallory
Re: [sf-perl] Perl Website Survey
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 10:20:00AM -0800, Jeffrey Ryan Thalhammer wrote: > Well done, Andrew! I look forward to seeing the survey results. > > And while we're on the topic of publicity, I just wanted to remind everyone > about the Perl Companies Database: > > https://github.com/vmbrasseur/Perl_Companies > > I think this could be a great marketing tool for the community. And there > are some really interesting possibilities > for data exploration and visualization in there. > > -Jeff I saw builtinperl.com recently because DuckDuckGo joined. -mallory
