Re: [REVIEW] Test Driven Development by Example
On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 02:26:28AM -, Dean Wilson wrote: > Test Driven Development by Example > > [snip review] I have posted this on the website, as well as Dave Cross's review of the Red Hat Linux 8 Bible. -- David Cantrell|Reprobate|http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Nuke a disabled unborn gay baby whale for JESUS!
Re: [REVIEW] Test Driven Development by Example
"James A. Duncan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 12:19 pm, Dean wrote: >> Is the Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns general enough that people >> without >> smalltalk backgrounds can take something away from it? If so I may >> end up >> adding it to my reading list. > > Absolutely it is. The latter chapters perhaps are more obscurely > applied to other languages, but the first two thirds of the book are > some of the most useful tips for programming in the style Object > Oriented I have ever encountered. It has changed the way I write > code, and for the better :-) I can't remember, was it me that pointed you at that? I know I bang on about it a bit...
Re: [REVIEW] Test Driven Development by Example
Dean wrote: >> Is the Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns general enough that people >> without smalltalk backgrounds can take something away from it? On Tue 21 Jan 2003, "James A. Duncan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Absolutely it is. The latter chapters perhaps are more obscurely > applied to other languages, but the first two thirds of the book are > some of the most useful tips for programming in the style Object > Oriented I have ever encountered. One warning though: I could follow the first couple of examples, but knowing no smalltalk at all, I wasn't very far into the book before I was completely lost. I think I'm going to need to learn at least a little bit of the language before I try again. (But I could tell that this is going to be worth it.) Kake
Re: [REVIEW] Test Driven Development by Example
On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 11:35:52AM +, James A. Duncan wrote: > > Is the Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns general enough that people > > without smalltalk backgrounds can take something away from it? > Absolutely it is. The latter chapters perhaps are more obscurely > applied to other languages, but the first two thirds of the book are > some of the most useful tips for programming in the style Object > Oriented I have ever encountered. It has changed the way I write code, > and for the better :-) Does it remove all stains as well? :) Well its cheapish and PCBookshop has it in so I'll pick a copy up at the weekend. Although I'm not reviewing it unless you and Piers are on holiday ;) Dean -- Dean Wilson http://www.unixdaemon.net Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: [REVIEW] Test Driven Development by Example
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 12:19 pm, Dean wrote: Is the Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns general enough that people without smalltalk backgrounds can take something away from it? If so I may end up adding it to my reading list. Absolutely it is. The latter chapters perhaps are more obscurely applied to other languages, but the first two thirds of the book are some of the most useful tips for programming in the style Object Oriented I have ever encountered. It has changed the way I write code, and for the better :-) Regards, james.
Re: [REVIEW] Test Driven Development by Example
On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 09:07:36AM +, Piers Cawley wrote: > Well, it's no surprise that Beck's a Smalltalk fan, he's written one > of the best books about the language that there is (sorry to bang on > about it, but Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns really is a very good > book). Personally I didn't find the Smalltalk stuff intrusive, but > (inspired by other books that continually hark back to Smalltalk) > taken the time go go and learn the syntax, there's almost nothing to > it really, I strongly recommend everyone do the same. Like Lisp, > Smalltalk is a mindwarping language, and I mean that in a good way. Smalltalks never been on my list of to learn languages to be honest, i just ended up doing a double take when i saw the small talk code samples. Its hard to imagine a professional developer these days that doesn't know how to read at least some basic Java and changing to another language for a couple of samples just seemed unneeded. Is the Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns general enough that people without smalltalk backgrounds can take something away from it? If so I may end up adding it to my reading list. > Again, I didn't find this annoying, and if you do the code from the > book is available for download at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/files/ This i didn't know and neither did i see it mentioned in the book, i never even thought of googling for it. I've just given the dollar zip the once over and this removes one of my negative points about the book. > Again, I didn't find this to be a problem; to be honest the *details* > of the implementation were secondary to the underlying thinking and > exposition and I found Beck's choice of code to show at each step to > be exemplary. Punctuating the book with lumps of 'the whole code as it > stands' would break the flow. And getting into that flow seemed to be > one of the most important skills that Beck was trying to teach. My reasoning behind this is that its better to 'waste' a page at the start to ensure everyone has a base point to start from. There are very few things as frustrating as not knowing what to do first. I understand the comment about breaking the flow but at the very least a small third appendix with some instructions and a link or two to JUnit would make it a lot easier to start off. Just out of curiosity did you work through the samples on a computer or just read through? I'm interested to know if our views differ because the route we took was different. > > Summary > > An interesting book that presents a useful approach, some good idea's and > > many pithy quotes but not a classic. > I have to disagree. Nice to know at least one person has read the review ;) Dean -- Dean Wilson http://www.unixdaemon.net Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: [REVIEW] Test Driven Development by Example
On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 09:07:36AM +, Piers Cawley wrote: > Definitely a future classic to my way of thinking. I'm left wondering if that's a good recommendation for anything. :-) -- Lusercop.net - LARTing Lusers everywhere since 2002
Re: [REVIEW] Test Driven Development by Example
"Dean Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > This is not a long book and is written in a chatty style that makes it an > easy read. The examples are short, clear and to the point, although i > did get the impression that the author didn't really like Java but was a > Smalltalk fan. This doesn't detract from the book but it does make you look > twice at the few Smalltalk code samples if you come from a main stream > language. The Smalltalk examples could have been implemented in something > more common such as Java or C++ and been just as effective but more > accessible to the mass market. Well, it's no surprise that Beck's a Smalltalk fan, he's written one of the best books about the language that there is (sorry to bang on about it, but Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns really is a very good book). Personally I didn't find the Smalltalk stuff intrusive, but (inspired by other books that continually hark back to Smalltalk) taken the time go go and learn the syntax, there's almost nothing to it really, I strongly recommend everyone do the same. Like Lisp, Smalltalk is a mindwarping language, and I mean that in a good way. > In order to get the most out of the book the author recommends working > along through the examples on a computer, i agree with this, i retain > more if I'm active rather than passive and this book is written in a style > that suits and encourages this approach. Something that annoyed > me however was the lack of concrete, full code. Although the examples are > complete and show the changes being made and discussed you are expected to > know enough about the language being used to put the classes together and > run them on your own. Again, I didn't find this annoying, and if you do the code from the book is available for download at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/files/ > A good example of this is the Java code, it is never given as an actual > class but rather presented as a selection of methods. It would have been > nice to have a boxout with the code as it looked at that stage every few > chapters. The same can be said of the test suite code. This is not a show > stopper but coupled with the complete lack of JUnit coverage (JUnit is used > in some screen-shots and would have made it simpler to follow along) and > the use of two main languages it raises the entry bar, something that could > have been avoided by the inclusion of a small third appendix and a small > number of more detailed code samples. Again, I didn't find this to be a problem; to be honest the *details* of the implementation were secondary to the underlying thinking and exposition and I found Beck's choice of code to show at each step to be exemplary. Punctuating the book with lumps of 'the whole code as it stands' would break the flow. And getting into that flow seemed to be one of the most important skills that Beck was trying to teach. > Summary > An interesting book that presents a useful approach, some good idea's and > many pithy quotes but not a classic. I have to disagree. I think this book will stand head and shoulders above other books on the same subject as a tightly focussed, highly effective teaching tool. Definitely a future classic to my way of thinking. -- Piers
