Re: [luau] MSWindows
Jimen Ching wrote: On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Daniel J Nishimura wrote: By the way, Linux and Unix isn't harder to configure, it is just that the configuration is NOT LIKE Windows. People are so brain washed into the Windows way of doing things, that anything else is considered 'difficult'. Sorry if this turned into a rant. I am just tired of people complaining why Unix is so user unfriendly, and why programmers like myself flock to Linux. Even if you look just at the surface only, the answer is so obvious. --jc Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head with those last two paragraphs. Linux isn't inherently harder to use for Average Joe (who doesn't isntall his own OS or most of his software anyway), it's just *different*, and that scares Joe. --MonMotha
[luau] MS Office, WordPerfect, StarOffice
I have been frequently challenged as to why I am so stubborn about WordPerfect and ignoring StarOffice/OpenOffice. It is very difficult for me to explain the reason w/o further inviting the wraths. But there was an article in Wall Street Journal which may somewhat explain why: The Wall Street Journal MOSSBERG'S MAILBOX By WALTER S. MOSSBERG July 25, 2002 Q: In your column last week, you complained that Microsoft charges families too much for Office XP and doesn't allow families to install a single copy of Office on multiple PCs. You made good points, but instead of begging Microsoft to do the right thing, why didn't you tell people to switch to the free office suite, OpenOffice, or Sun's very similar $75 suite, StarOffice, or to the WordPerfect suite? A: That's a good question, which I received in various forms from dozens of readers. Here's my answer. In the case of the WordPerfect Office suite, it's also fairly expensive and also is licensed on the same one-copy-per-PC model Microsoft follows. (You can put it on a second PC, but can't use it on both machines simultaneously.) Corel , WordPerfect's maker, doesn't enforce this license via activation, the way Microsoft does, but you are still violating the license if you buy one copy and use it to upgrade an entire family's computers, unless there are only two and you constantly police their running of WordPerfect, which is absurd. In the case of StarOffice, which is essentially identical to the free OpenOffice, you are given a family license that covers five PCs. But I reviewed the new 6.0 version of StarOffice (equivalent to the 1.0 version of OpenOffice) recently and found it too complicated, quirky and buggy to be a reliable replacement for Microsoft Office for mainstream, nontechnical users (read the review). Believe me, if WordPerfect drastically cut its price, and/or offered a family license, or if the OpenOffice/StarOffice product were simpler and more reliable, I'd be glad to recommend them as alternatives. Write to Walter S. Mossberg at [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/corelinvestors2/post?protectID=029233066112093198218242203102229017071179066034 ===
[luau] HardDisc Partitioning
Below is the HD partitioning in my newly installed RedHat 7.3. I am planning to re-install Red Hat and add 2 GB to /home and /usr each (b/c I will need to install Win4Lin by creating a Windows partition in /home). I plan to cut the root and tmp partitions to 1 GB each. Any comments? Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda6 2522048 95608 2298324 4% / /dev/hda1 147766 8965131172 7% /boot /dev/hda3 5036316103112 4677372 3% /home none257180 0257180 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda5 2522048 89340 2304592 4% /tmp /dev/hda2 5036316 2003808 2776676 42% /usr /dev/hda8 13756872 87112 12970936 1% /var
[luau] processor opinion
I am going to upgrade my home computer, but I am unsure of what processor to go with, AMD or Pentium 4. The main uses of the computer would be for 3D modeling/animation, video creation/editing, and the usual desktop apps (office, cd burning/encoding, etc...) Any suggestions/opinions? Thanks, Rodney
[luau] Limbo Gone from Mirror?
Limbo seems no longer available in the mirror?
Re: [luau] MS Office, WordPerfect, StarOffice
W. Wayne Liauh wrote: I have been frequently challenged as to why I am so stubborn about WordPerfect and ignoring StarOffice/OpenOffice. It is very difficult for me to explain the reason w/o further inviting the wraths. But there was an article in Wall Street Journal which may somewhat explain why: Honestly, if there was a single app that I'd immediately buy for Linux, it would be MS Office97. That was the last good office suite I used (and in fact I keep a Win98 PC around just to run it as win2k breaks it, probably intentionally). I've considered crossover office just so that I can run Office97. It was a good office suite. Then Office2k came out and it was all downhill from there... --MonMotha
Re: [luau] HardDisc Partitioning
W. Wayne Liauh wrote: Below is the HD partitioning in my newly installed RedHat 7.3. I am planning to re-install Red Hat and add 2 GB to /home and /usr each (b/c I will need to install Win4Lin by creating a Windows partition in /home). I plan to cut the root and tmp partitions to 1 GB each. Any comments? Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda6 2522048 95608 2298324 4% / /dev/hda1 147766 8965131172 7% /boot /dev/hda3 5036316103112 4677372 3% /home none257180 0257180 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda5 2522048 89340 2304592 4% /tmp /dev/hda2 5036316 2003808 2776676 42% /usr /dev/hda8 13756872 87112 12970936 1% /var Just one, why is your /var so big? at 13.5GB it's the biggest partition on your system while being one of the least used. Unless you are running a mail server or news server, /var is generally only used to store logs and some config files. --MonMotha
Re: [luau] processor opinion
Rodney Kanno wrote: I am going to upgrade my home computer, but I am unsure of what processor to go with, AMD or Pentium 4. The main uses of the computer would be for 3D modeling/animation, video creation/editing, and the usual desktop apps (office, cd burning/encoding, etc...) Any suggestions/opinions? Thanks, Rodney For video encoding, Pentium 4s are actually SLIGHTLY faster than Athlons. However, they come at a hefty price tag. At this point however, I'd wait for the AMD Hammers to come out. The developer's samples have been very promising and 64 bit computing can't hurt :) --MonMotha
[luau] HardDisc Partitioning
Just one, why is your /var so big? at 13.5GB it's the biggest partition on your system while being one of the least used. Unless you are running a mail server or news server, /var is generally only used to store logs and some config files. --MonMotha Good question. I am not running any server. But the default installation of Win4Lin creates a shared partition in /var. Some of the Windows programs that I am using (e.g., a Webster dictionary with pronunciations) take almost 1 GB of HD space.
[luau] processor opinion
Many benchmarks can be misleading because they were using RDRAM for Pentium 4. The Pentium 4s are designed to run with the Rambus DRAM, which, for a number of reasons, has completely disappeared from Intel's recent roadmaps. With RDRAM, Pentium 4 is a crippled CPU. Athlon XPs are more cost-effective then Pentium 4s. Actually, personally I would still prefer Athlon XPs even if there were at the same price. The lowered price of Athlon XP is simply a bonus. But, YES, I will definitely get a Clawhammer when it comes out. This could be THE most exciting event for the stagnant or even (obviously) dwindling PC industry.
Re: [luau] MS Office, WordPerfect, StarOffice
On Sun, 28 Jul 2002 08:21:55 -1000 W. Wayne Liauh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been frequently challenged as to why I am so stubborn about WordPerfect and ignoring StarOffice/OpenOffice. It is very difficult for me to explain the reason w/o further inviting the wraths. But there was an article in Wall Street Journal which may somewhat explain why: The Wall Street Journal MOSSBERG'S MAILBOX By WALTER S. MOSSBERG July 25, 2002 [snip] In the case of StarOffice, which is essentially identical to the free OpenOffice, you are given a family license that covers five PCs. But I reviewed the new 6.0 version of StarOffice (equivalent to the 1.0 version of OpenOffice) recently and found it too complicated, quirky and buggy to be a reliable replacement for Microsoft Office for mainstream, nontechnical users (read the review). [snip] Wayne, I am somewhat familiar with your ongoing quest regarding WordPerfect and your opinion of potential substitutes. I find the included WSJ article interesting but it does little to explain, in detail, specific issues/problems with StarOffice/OpenOffice encountered by you or Mr. Mossberg. Do have a free cite to the acutal review by Mr. Mossberg? I am interested in where the alternatives to WordPerfect fail, in your or his opinion. Is it due to not performing as specified, don't have the required features, don't work like WordPerfect, the user not being familiar with the applications, or some other ___ (fill in the blank)? Too complicated, quirky and buggy does not provide much insight. -- Gary 9:24am up 121 days, 7:51, 6 users, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01
Re: [luau] processor opinion
When is the Hammer supposed to be out? On Sun, 2002-07-28 at 09:06, MonMotha wrote: Rodney Kanno wrote: I am going to upgrade my home computer, but I am unsure of what processor to go with, AMD or Pentium 4. The main uses of the computer would be for 3D modeling/animation, video creation/editing, and the usual desktop apps (office, cd burning/encoding, etc...) Any suggestions/opinions? Thanks, Rodney For video encoding, Pentium 4s are actually SLIGHTLY faster than Athlons. However, they come at a hefty price tag. At this point however, I'd wait for the AMD Hammers to come out. The developer's samples have been very promising and 64 bit computing can't hurt :) --MonMotha ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
[luau] MS Office, WordPerfect, StarOffice
Wayne, I am interested in where the alternatives to WordPerfect fail, in your or his opinion. Gary Very interesting question. OpenOffice 6.0 reminds me of MS Office 95; it shows something that looks good enough to be an office suite but still lacks many of the features that will allow WordPerfect users to make the switch. For starters, it is not infrequent for lawyers to generate documents that take hundreds of pages (and we call it a brief) with heavy formatting. I have not tried StarOffice yet, but OpenOffice (6.0) does not handle big documents well. Even Microsoft Office has problems in this regard. Automation capability is a must-have item for business office suite. Microsoft Office has VBA, WordPerfect has its own build-in programming language (PerfectScript) and VBA. I don't know how much effoft Sun is putting into StarOffice, but lack of a very powerful macro language is, for the present, the Achilles heel of StarOffice. Then there are a bunch of other more or less miscellaneous things, such as directly copying headers/footers from one document to another, counting words in footers, merging directly from a database or spreadsheet file, etc. But reliability, or more specifically, lack thereof, is a major concern. In the past, everytime I mentioned StarOffice I always unnecessarily incurred a bunch of vulgar wraths. Believe, because StarOffice is unicode-compatible, something Corel has taken the wrong direction with respect to WordPerfect, I will be more than happy (thrilled) to be able to use StarOffice for my office.
Re: [luau] HardDisc Partitioning
Since you are going to be running Win4Lin, I would make your home directory a little bigger. In the past I've had my win folder for Win4Lin get as big as 2.5 Gigs. Rodney On Sun, 2002-07-28 at 08:37, W. Wayne Liauh wrote: Below is the HD partitioning in my newly installed RedHat 7.3. I am planning to re-install Red Hat and add 2 GB to /home and /usr each (b/c I will need to install Win4Lin by creating a Windows partition in /home). I plan to cut the root and tmp partitions to 1 GB each. Any comments? Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda6 2522048 95608 2298324 4% / /dev/hda1 147766 8965131172 7% /boot /dev/hda3 5036316103112 4677372 3% /home none257180 0257180 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda5 2522048 89340 2304592 4% /tmp /dev/hda2 5036316 2003808 2776676 42% /usr /dev/hda8 13756872 87112 12970936 1% /var ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
[luau] MS Office, WordPerfect, StarOffice
That said, I wouldn't underestimate the power of oper source development. The difference (improvement) b/t StarOffice 5.2 and OpenOffice 6.0 is truly startling. On the programming language stuff, I was wondering whether it would be possible to do javascript w/i StarOffice?
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Michael Ableyev wrote: This could be a silly question, but have you tried changing your cabling from the modem to your machine? Not only did I do that, but I went and changed my modem... twice. RR's tech support kept saying that's the cause of the problem. But anyway that couldn't be the issue as the problem is NOT conistent, at times I get 2mbps downstream. ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau ### We had a case like this with DSL and Dial up Not Consistent. It turned out to be a junction box two blocks away that was full of water when ever it rained. The tech went against company rules after he came out the third time and drilled a drain hole in the bottom of the junction box. This was three years ago and no problems since. I don't know how rr can be affected by a situation like this, but it could be something similar by the way you describe the issue. -- Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX Caldera Linux 2.4 RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043
[luau] HardDisc Partitioning
Thanks for the inputs. This is what I have decided: /boot 100MB / 500MB /home 10GB /usr 10GB /tmp 1GB /swap 512MB /var balance (6GB) Any new comments? (I also plan to use /tmp for downloading files, and /var for ISOs.)
Re: [luau] Limbo Gone from Mirror?
Limbo beta 2 is scheduled to be available sometime Monday. Many things have been changed so the wait is well worth it. - Original Message - From: W. Wayne Liauh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 8:40 AM Subject: [luau] Limbo Gone from Mirror? Limbo seems no longer available in the mirror?
Re: [luau] processor opinion
There is also the question of if your 3D modeling/animation software supports multithreading and can take advantage of multiple processors. With multiple processors you can have far more performance with certain specially designed applications. Even if your application doesn't take advantage of multiple processors, SMP gives you a much smoother computing experience. For example while one processor is busy rendering, you can continue work in other applications or the same application designing another scene for rendering later. With SMP machines there are currently only two options: Athlon MP vs Xeon While it is true that you will have slightly more performance with the fastest Xeon's, you pay far more. The price/performance ratio of dual Athlon MP is a much greater value. Coming late this year is the Hammer x86-64 architecture from AMD. Hammer is fully compatible with existing 32-bit Athlon, but adds 64-bit registers and SSE2 among some other stuff. This means that it can simultaneously run existing 32-bit operating systems and software while running certain applications that take advantage of 64-bit power. I read some estimate that 32-bit applications will be about 20% faster than the fastest Athlon at the time of Hammer. This platform will be available initially as the low-end Athlon 64-bit with 256KB cache codename Clawhammer late this year, followed by the server version Opteron with 1MB cache during 2003. Yes, this means that AMD plans on eventually phasing out the 32-bit Athlon, meaning all of their x86 processors will be fully backwards compatible 64-bit chips in servers, desktops and even laptops. Last I heard, Athlon Clawhammer will be up to dual-processors, while Opteron will initially be available as quad. - Original Message - From: W. Wayne Liauh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 9:28 AM Subject: [luau] processor opinion Many benchmarks can be misleading because they were using RDRAM for Pentium 4. The Pentium 4s are designed to run with the Rambus DRAM, which, for a number of reasons, has completely disappeared from Intel's recent roadmaps. With RDRAM, Pentium 4 is a crippled CPU. Athlon XPs are more cost-effective then Pentium 4s. Actually, personally I would still prefer Athlon XPs even if there were at the same price. The lowered price of Athlon XP is simply a bonus. But, YES, I will definitely get a Clawhammer when it comes out. This could be THE most exciting event for the stagnant or even (obviously) dwindling PC industry.
Re: [luau] processor opinion
- Original Message - From: Warren Togami [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [luau] processor opinion With SMP machines there are currently only two options: Athlon MP vs Xeon While it is true that you will have slightly more performance with the fastest Xeon's, you pay far more. The price/performance ratio of dual Athlon MP is a much greater value. I forgot to mention that in buying Xeon, you also buy RDRAM which is more expensive than DDR SDRAM. Also in buying RDRAM, the manufacturer pays royalties for to Rambus, a company that has used deceptive business practices in participating in the JEDEC standards meeting, but later claiming that they own the patents on the SDRAM technology that became an industry standard from that group. They sued and successfully extracted royalties on SDRAM from some companies like Toshiba IIRC. They were counter-sued by some companies like Infineon and Micron (Crucial), and are facing anti-trust investigation. In buying SDRAM, you reject deceptive business practices and support fair market competition while paying less for your memory. Win-win situation to me.
Re: [luau] MS Office, WordPerfect, StarOffice
On Sun, 28 Jul 2002 10:59:51 -1000 W. Wayne Liauh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That said, I wouldn't underestimate the power of oper source development. The difference (improvement) b/t StarOffice 5.2 and OpenOffice 6.0 is truly startling. On the programming language stuff, I was wondering whether it would be possible to do javascript w/i StarOffice? Javascript is functional with OpenOffice 1.01 if you are creating a HTML document, also check OpenOffice Help subjects; macro, scripts, programming API and the following url: http://api.openoffice.org/ -- Gary 12:53pm up 121 days, 11:20, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.04, 0.12
[luau] Re: processor opinion
I am going to upgrade my home computer, but I am unsure of what processor to go with, AMD or Pentium 4. The main uses of the computer would be for 3D modeling/animation, video creation/editing.. I don't know exactly how much 3D modelling/animation and video work you want to do but maybe think about a decent video card. With the latest cards supporting vertex shading and pixel shading, you can do some pretty radical things real-time *if* the package supports it. See: http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/3034/ATT/videofx_crack.jpg Tim Burgess
Re: [luau] MSWindows
Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head with those last two paragraphs. Linux isn't inherently harder to use for Average Joe (who doesn't isntall his own OS or most of his software anyway), it's just *different*, and that scares Joe. --MonMotha I don't think this is true at all. I have never needed help for ANYTHING in windows. On the other hand, anything I attempt in linux usually takes several days, I ask for help, then it fails anyway. The problem is, people think they are smart enough to install and configure their own computer. When they realize this isn't true, they question why doesn't the software engineers design easier to use software, as if that was the problem to begin with. The thing is, I'm not a stupid user or anything. I have never had real problems installing programs in windows. If ever I did, the product was not worthwhile anyway. Only about 1:5 times when I try to compile something in linux does it come out correctly. Then even with RPMs, they often complain about obscure library dependencies. An RPM says it needs libsoq.so.12, then I look for soq in the rpms, and nothing similar exists. In windows, its double click the install file, next, next, next, finish. There is nothing easier. It is obvious that most of the time linux is quite a bit harder to get things installed on. Windows doesn't require that the user remember anything. Do you really think most of the world moved away from the command line by pure chance? No, it allows you to manipulate files and etc. without learning or remembering any commands. Now the linux community can sit around and think that everyone but themselves are stupid and learn the command line interface, but if they really want anyone else to learn linux, the way to do it is to make it easier, not to try to convince everyone to work harder. An install shield type of program, more gui menus, and other such things would help considerably. Command line interfaces are for system administrators and programmers. They are good for people who are really into their systems. However, they are not for average people who just want to install and uninstall programs. Look at MacOSX. The command prompt is there for people who really like to type in commands, but the GUI is done so well that the average mac user doesn't even know or need to know that the terminal is available. Now maybe you're one of those people who says, Linux is fine the way it is, and putting menus and making it easier would just make it for stupid people. I'm glad that my friends and I are the only people smart enough to use linux, because other people would get in the way, but if you're the type who says, I wish other people used linux. That would make society better, then you can't expect people to say, Hey, if I could learn to use vi and type in commands, my life would be much better. -Eric Hattemer
Re: [luau] MSWindows
Eric Hattemer wrote: Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head with those last two paragraphs. Linux isn't inherently harder to use for Average Joe (who doesn't isntall his own OS or most of his software anyway), it's just *different*, and that scares Joe. --MonMotha I don't think this is true at all. I have never needed help for ANYTHING in windows. On the other hand, anything I attempt in linux usually takes several days, I ask for help, then it fails anyway. You're one of the intermediate users. There are plenty of those too. I usually find that there are three basic categories of users: *Beginner/Too cautious for their own good: Won't do anything that's not on their cheat sheet (like installing an OS or software, or using uncommon features in their programs) without calling up a more techie friend to help them. These are the people I was speaking of. There's a lot of these. *Intermediate/Willing to try and occassionaly messes up: These are the people who will install their own software, but don't have the know-how or will to troubleshoot something when it goes wrong. These people will only bother their techie friends when something breaks or if they come across a feature that's intriguing and they want to know more. This group is probably one of the hardest to support as they are willing to do things on their own (and this is a GOOD THING), but don't walk the walk if you will. *Advanced/Knows how to fix things: This group is where your average hard-core linux user falls. They're willing to do just about anythign on their own, and if something doesn't work they either know what to do to fix it or where to go. However, these people aren't gods. They may need to ask another advanced user who is more familiar with a certain subsystem for more information or help on occasion. There are subcategories of course. But notice I leave off a knows everything level. Even Linus Torvalds doesn't know everything that's going on on a Linux system. There are parts of your redhat box that Alan Cox has no idea what to do if they utterly fall apart. But these guys of course know who to call. The problem is, people think they are smart enough to install and configure their own computer. When they realize this isn't true, they question why doesn't the software engineers design easier to use software, as if that was the problem to begin with. See Intermediate level above. The thing is, I'm not a stupid user or anything. I have never had real problems installing programs in windows. If ever I did, the product was not worthwhile anyway. Only about 1:5 times when I try to compile something in linux does it come out correctly. Then even with RPMs, they often complain about obscure library dependencies. An RPM says it needs libsoq.so.12, then I look for soq in the rpms, and nothing similar exists. In windows, its double click the install file, next, next, next, finish. There is nothing easier. It is obvious that most of the time linux is quite a bit harder to get things installed on. Windows doesn't require that the user remember anything. Do you really think most of the world moved away from the command line by pure chance? No, it allows you to manipulate files and etc. without learning or remembering any commands. Get a better packaging system, one that can fulfill dependencies for you automatically. Windows programs have library dependencies too (of course), but they generally include them all on the CD. Linux programs try to avoid redundant downloading, so they don't do that. Debian's apt-get program will take the package you ask for, and automagically download and install it and all it's dependencies. Gentoo's BSD ports system does the same but it also compiles it from source. Honesly I don't know how RPM became the standard for Linux packages. It was a great first step, but there have been vast improvements upon it. Lately, many RPM based distributions have taken to a debian like approach. I believe Mandrake has urpmi and you can actually make apt-get work with RPM on redhat systems. This should eliminate the dependency hell commonly complained about by RPM users. Now the linux community can sit around and think that everyone but themselves are stupid and learn the command line interface, but if they really want anyone else to learn linux, the way to do it is to make it easier, not to try to convince everyone to work harder. An install shield type of program, more gui menus, and other such things would help considerably. Command line interfaces are for system administrators and programmers. They are good for people who are really into their systems. However, they are not for average people who just want to install and uninstall programs. Look at MacOSX. The command prompt is there for people who really like to type in commands, but the GUI is done so well that the average mac user doesn't even know or need to know
Re: [luau] MSWindows
Get a better packaging system, one that can fulfill dependencies for you automatically. Windows programs have library dependencies too (of course), but they generally include them all on the CD. Linux programs try to avoid redundant downloading, so they don't do that. Debian's apt-get program will take the package you ask for, and automagically download and install it and all it's dependencies. Gentoo's BSD ports system does the same but it also compiles it from source. Honesly I don't know how RPM became the standard for Linux packages. It was a great first step, but there have been vast improvements upon it. Lately, many RPM based distributions have taken to a debian like approach. I believe Mandrake has urpmi and you can actually make apt-get work with RPM on redhat systems. This should eliminate the dependency hell commonly complained about by RPM users. Perhaps this really is the right solution. But once again, instead of pusing the responsibility toward the user (use a different distribution), RedHat should work on their packaging system, moving to a ports or apt-get type of program. Furthermore, their GUI packaging programs kind of suck. gnorpm hasn't changed since 6.0, and still contains messages like not all functionality is here, but someday, we'll fix it, and kpackage (which I really liked, but Warren had some kind of problem with), mysteriously disappeared in the newest versions of redhat. But really, since Redhat has become the standard that everyone knows how to use and support, etc., its a shame that their packaging tools are so bad. Actually, people are working on this. KDE and GNOME are a far cry from what my X11 desktop looked like on Slackware 3.6 (aka Slackware98). There are GUIs (both X and console based) for things such as software installation, but with a good package manager, the GUI isn't needed. Why click next 10 times when you can just type apt-get install foo? Configuration is also progressing rapidly. There have got to be tens, possibly hundreds of tools for helping you configure your system. If anything, the problem is there's too many of them! I have no problem with multiple desktops, etc. I just wish KDE didn't crash so often. Now while some people would like to type in commands, and I'm sure it is faster, but it is a lot to expect from beginning users. Its one of those things that can make your life easier if you learn it, but shouldn't be a requirement. Something similar to kpackage would be great. -Eric Hattemer
Re: [luau] MSWindows
Eric Hattemer wrote: Get a better packaging system, one that can fulfill dependencies for you automatically. Windows programs have library dependencies too (of course), but they generally include them all on the CD. Linux programs try to avoid redundant downloading, so they don't do that. Debian's apt-get program will take the package you ask for, and automagically download and install it and all it's dependencies. Gentoo's BSD ports system does the same but it also compiles it from source. Honesly I don't know how RPM became the standard for Linux packages. It was a great first step, but there have been vast improvements upon it. Lately, many RPM based distributions have taken to a debian like approach. I believe Mandrake has urpmi and you can actually make apt-get work with RPM on redhat systems. This should eliminate the dependency hell commonly complained about by RPM users. Perhaps this really is the right solution. But once again, instead of pusing the responsibility toward the user (use a different distribution), RedHat should work on their packaging system, moving to a ports or apt-get type of program. Furthermore, their GUI packaging programs kind of suck. gnorpm hasn't changed since 6.0, and still contains messages like not all functionality is here, but someday, we'll fix it, and kpackage (which I really liked, but Warren had some kind of problem with), mysteriously disappeared in the newest versions of redhat. But really, since Redhat has become the standard that everyone knows how to use and support, etc., its a shame that their packaging tools are so bad. Unfortunately, it seems that RedHat has turned into a company that seems split on where to go. One one hand they have the opensource volunteer developers that gave them something very impressive to start with and are still helping them along. On the other hand they have the class coporate the only people we care about are our shareholders and lawyers. Believe me, many people in the Linux community (myself included) are beginning to doubt redhat. They are poised to become the microsoft of the Linux world. Let's hope they do the right thing. There's not much we as the community can do to force redhat to change. The best the community can do is petition them to change, the same thing we have to do with any company. What we as the community CAN do is direct people at something that will solve their problems. Actually, people are working on this. KDE and GNOME are a far cry from what my X11 desktop looked like on Slackware 3.6 (aka Slackware98). There are GUIs (both X and console based) for things such as software installation, but with a good package manager, the GUI isn't needed. Why click next 10 times when you can just type apt-get install foo? Configuration is also progressing rapidly. There have got to be tens, possibly hundreds of tools for helping you configure your system. If anything, the problem is there's too many of them! I have no problem with multiple desktops, etc. I just wish KDE didn't crash so often. Now while some people would like to type in commands, and I'm sure it is faster, but it is a lot to expect from beginning users. Its one of those things that can make your life easier if you learn it, but shouldn't be a requirement. Something similar to kpackage would be great. Unfortunately things crash. It's a fact of life. I don't think you're going to try telling me Windows never crashes. Windows has gotten a LOT better recently. Remember, windows has had over 15 years to get to this point WITH CORPORATE SPONSERSHIP. Linux has only existed (and originally as a hack your drivers together yourself project) for a mere 10 years. Only during the past few has it really started to take off. Imagine where Linux will be 10-15 years from now! On the subject of crashing and Linux improving, most projects are very happy to accept bug reports! Go to their homepage and see if they have a bug report page, and YOU can help make Linux better. -Eric Hattemer --MonMotha
Re: [luau] OpenOffice 1.0.1
Ben Beeson wrote: Dean, Interesting. I had it when I imported M$ docs from work, but after I unchecked it and replaced all the ?s, all was OK. I wonder if you have discovered a bug... Ben Ben, That's why I posted here first.. because I don't want to report a bug if i'm just not seeing something or if it is not replicable on other systems... dean
Re: [luau] MSWindows
On Sunday 28 July 2002 07:49, you wrote: Jimen Ching wrote: On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Daniel J Nishimura wrote: By the way, Linux and Unix isn't harder to configure, it is just that the configuration is NOT LIKE Windows. People are so brain washed into the Windows way of doing things, that anything else is considered 'difficult'. Sorry if this turned into a rant. I am just tired of people complaining why Unix is so user unfriendly, and why programmers like myself flock to Linux. Even if you look just at the surface only, the answer is so obvious. --jc Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head with those last two paragraphs. Linux isn't inherently harder to use for Average Joe (who doesn't isntall his own OS or most of his software anyway), it's just *different*, and that scares Joe. --MonMotha ___ Scares me a little so I cant complain. Sometimes doing the simplest thing like loading flash 6 to my RH71 so my daughter can check out zoogdisney.. Just trying to get her used to Linux. But I must have did something wrong and the Flash site was incorrect in the instructions on how to install on a Linux machine. LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] MS Office, WordPerfect, StarOffice
Why was it all downhill from there between 97 and 2K? I know 2K is far better than Office XP. Please comment on the major differences. Thanks Dan
Re: [luau] HardDisc Partitioning
On Sunday 28 July 2002 09:05, you wrote: W. Wayne Liauh wrote: Below is the HD partitioning in my newly installed RedHat 7.3. I am planning to re-install Red Hat and add 2 GB to /home and /usr each (b/c I will need to install Win4Lin by creating a Windows partition in /home). I plan to cut the root and tmp partitions to 1 GB each. Any comments? Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda6 2522048 95608 2298324 4% / /dev/hda1 147766 8965131172 7% /boot /dev/hda3 5036316103112 4677372 3% /home none257180 0257180 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda5 2522048 89340 2304592 4% /tmp /dev/hda2 5036316 2003808 2776676 42% /usr /dev/hda8 13756872 87112 12970936 1% /var Just one, why is your /var so big? at 13.5GB it's the biggest partition on your system while being one of the least used. Unless you are running a mail server or news server, /var is generally only used to store logs and some config files. --MonMotha Shouldnt the root or USR folder be the largest?
Re: [luau] processor opinion
On Sunday 28 July 2002 09:06, you wrote: Rodney Kanno wrote: I am going to upgrade my home computer, but I am unsure of what processor to go with, AMD or Pentium 4. The main uses of the computer would be for 3D modeling/animation, video creation/editing, and the usual desktop apps (office, cd burning/encoding, etc...) Any suggestions/opinions? Thanks, Rodney For video encoding, Pentium 4s are actually SLIGHTLY faster than Athlons. However, they come at a hefty price tag. At this point however, I'd wait for the AMD Hammers to come out. The developer's samples have been very promising and 64 bit computing can't hurt :) --MonMotha This sledgehammer chip is b-ing but I dont have a MLB to test it on yet. Nice of AMD to send me a chip I cannot use. Its supposed to be the one.
Re: [luau] MSWindows
Dan George wrote: Scares me a little so I cant complain. Sometimes doing the simplest thing like loading flash 6 to my RH71 so my daughter can check out zoogdisney.. Just trying to get her used to Linux. But I must have did something wrong and the Flash site was incorrect in the instructions on how to install on a Linux machine. The flash plugin is rather dodgey at the moment (and has been for a while). Warren can probably attest to this with all the thin clients he does (there's a bug when remote displaying). Trust me, it probably wasn't your fault. Unfortunately, the flash plugin isn't opensource or maintained by the OSS community. It's a binary only thing distributed by Macromedia. I have to give them good points for thought though. At least they did SOMETHING. --MonMotha
[luau] Limbo Gone from Mirror?
Limbo beta 2 is scheduled to be available sometime Monday. Many things have been changed so the wait is well worth it. Thanks Warren. I am testing Red Hat 7.3 and it looks really good. Looking forward to try Limbo beta 2.
[luau] Sun to push StarOffice for Apple's OS X
* Apple Computer and Sun Microsystems are cooperating on a version of Sun's StarOffice productivity software for Mac OS X, the companies said. *http://news.com.com/2100-1001-946714.html?tag=fd_top
[luau] Limbo Gone from Mirror?
W == W Wayne Liauh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: W Limbo beta 2 is scheduled to be available sometime Monday. Many things have W been changed so the wait is well worth it. W Thanks Warren. I am testing Red Hat 7.3 and it looks really good. W Looking forward to try Limbo beta 2. Just noticed that some of the redhat mirrors now have the 2nd beta release ISO's available. Bruce
[luau] Sun to push StarOffice for Apple's OS X
Oops, I remember Warren posted the same article earlier.
[luau] Central Pacific Bank web browsers
Is anyone a Central Pacific Bank customer and use their online banking to check balances? My friend seemed unable to login to their site using Mozilla in Red Hat 7.3, but Opera spoofing the MSIE 5.0 useragent seems able to login fine. Can anyone test Mozilla, Galeon and Konqueror with CPBI.com online banking? http://cpbi.com/ BTW, First Hawaiian Bank has called me recently. They are soon moving their site codebase to be similar to the BankWest online banking site, which works with Mozilla but not Konqueror. They have expressed concern about accessibility, so I suspect I will be able to convince them to support Konqueror, Galeon and other compliant browsers. If you know of any other local site with some useful service that rejects visitors based upon browser user agents, please let the list know so we can investigate.
