Re: [LUAU] rsync question

[Vince Hoang]

The files are only removed when —delete is passed. Let’s verify:





foo$ mkdir src dst

foo$ touch src/{1,2,3,4,5}

foo$ rsync -av src/ dst/

building file list ... done

./

1

2

3

4

5




sent 328 bytes  received 136 bytes  928.00 bytes/sec

total size is 0  speedup is 0.00

foo$ rm src/{1,3,5}

foo$ rsync -av src/ dst/

building file list ... done

./




sent 101 bytes  received 26 bytes  254.00 bytes/sec

total size is 0  speedup is 0.00

foo$ ls -1 src

2

4

foo$ ls -1 dst

1

2

3

4

5

foo$ rsync -av --delete src/ dst/

building file list ... done

deleting 5

deleting 3

deleting 1

./




sent 101 bytes  received 26 bytes  254.00 bytes/sec

total size is 0  speedup is 0.00

foo$ ls -1 dst

2

4

foo$







-Vince



—
Sent from Mailbox

On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Brian Chee  wrote:

> I thought so too, but all the docs I've been finding seems to indicate that
> it deleteswhich doesn't work for me.
> Brian chee
>  On Aug 27, 2014 6:34 PM, "Dwight Victor (Gmail)" 
> wrote:
>> isn't the default behavior to keep files on the target?  i think you have
>> to use the --delete option to force delete from the target.
>>
>>> So I'm trying to find if rsync has an option to NOT delete remote files if
>>> they're no longer on the local machine.
>>>
>>> The issue is that I can't afford to lose any data off my sensors. I've got
>>> the remote server mounted in fstab so that it looks like two local
>>> directories.
>>>
>>> I want to make sure everything in the local directory is copied and synced
>>> (updated) to the remote. But if someone deletes a file on the local
>>> machine
>>> but the file exists on the remote side, I don't want that remote file
>>> deleted.
>>>
>>> I've been searching like crazy, but rsync always seems to want to delete
>>> the remote file.
>>>
>>> Should I consider something other than rsync?
>>>
>>> /brian chee
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [LUAU] Favorite NTP server?

[Vince Hoang]

Brian,

That stratum-1 Rasberry Pi project is really cool.

Jeff,

http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/us

You can list multiple servers and get your time normalized between all of
them.

-Vince

>
>
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Re: [LUAU] my list presence restoration....?

[Vince Hoang]

Ben,
As Peter mentioned, your message was distributed to the list. It is
archived here: 
http://lists.freesoftwarehawaii.org/pipermail/luau-freesoftwarehawaii.org/2011-November/019261.html
I think the simplest explanation is you had previously subscribed with
an old address. Make sure your preferred e-mail address is subscribed
so you can post. The list is configured to block non-subscribers and
delete the queued message after 1 day.
-Vince

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Peter Besenbruch  wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:31:56 -1000
> Ben Timmerman  wrote:
>
>> I'm not expecting this to get posted/disseminated to the list...except
>> to the movers and shakers who decide who can and cannot be a list member.
>
> Well, it did. If you get this, it means you are still signed up.
>
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Re: [LUAU] IP address on Cable

[Vince Hoang]

On Mar 3, 2011, at 12:36 PM, Al Plant  wrote
> Does anyone on the list have experience with a firewall on an Oceanic cable 
> feed? Linux or Freebsd is what I use,.but I only have experience with 
> firewalls on Telcom lines.

IP is IP. It doesn't matter if your provider hands you cable, DSL, Ethernet or 
wireless; you protect it the same way.

> I am trying to help a guy with a Windows 7 box.  He has netflix on this cable 
> too so it may have a fixed IP.
> 
> He gets attacked a lot with viruses and other weirdness even with Norton on 
> the box.
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated.

If you have a gateway that does NAT, you are shielded from most of the network 
based attacks.

However, I see most malware through compromised sites and ads, via the web 
these days.

I'll second Jon's suggestion of FireFox/NoScript for tech savvy folks. For 
others, start with an ad blocker and Chrome if Win7/IE8 doesn't seem to be 
doing the trick.

My best suggestion is to have 1 PC that has no network access or is only used 
to visit financial sites and a 2nd PC for recreational use.

-Vince

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[LUAU] Unconference 2011

[Vince Hoang]

http://unconferenz2011.eventbrite.com/


The Unconferenz mantra is to *Invent : Inspire : Innovate*. It's a
grassroots Technology/Internet gathering of individuals across the community
to foster sharing and interaction amongst its participants. The Unconferenz
is really what you make it. Feel free to join the conversation and help
develop the Unconferenz 2011
agenda
.

**Date: Saturday, February 26, 2011
*Time:* 8:00am to 4:00pm
*Place:* Windward Community College
45-720 Keaahala Road, Kaneohe

*Attendance:* 80 – 100 Limited

*Cost: *

   - *Option 1: Free *(We are keeping the cost down this year and won't be
   offering a t-shirt and lunch will be available for purchase)
   - *Option 2: Donation* (Donations of any amount are welcome. This will
   help to cover the morning coffee and snacks and any miscellaneous expenses.)

*Format:* Open Grid, Ignite Session, Internet+Tech, 45 minute sessions

*Rules:* No talking heads, we want participation, sharing and interaction.
Product discussions are encouraged especially if it is the creator, designer
or principal innovator.

*Objectives for the Unconferenz:*

   1. Be a catalyst
   2. Create an environment for sharing
   3. Provide support for people and innovation.
   4. Networking
   5. Start a movement

*Session Schedule:*

Please arrive early. We only have 45 min to complete registration and
session sign up.

8:00am - 8:45amRegistration and session sign up
9:00am - 9:50amSession 1
10:00am - 10:50amSession 2
11:00am - 11:50amSession 3
12:00 noon - 1:00pm  Lunch
1:15pm - 2:05pmSession 4
2:15pm - 3:05pmSession 5
3:15pm - 4:00pm   Wrap up

*Session Topics (Draft):*

   1. GeoLocation applications
2. HTML 5
   3. Personal Informatics
   4. Gadgets Show and Tell
   5. Hobby robotics
   6. Entrepreneurial startup

*Lunch:*

I've invited the folks at @OnotoGo lunch wagon to provide the lunch at the
Unconferenz 2011. They are providing the lunch bentos for $7.00 apiece. When
registering please select a lunch option. This is so Wedge Lee knows how
many lunchs to make. You can pay for lunch at the Unconferenz.

*For More Information:*

Unconferenz.com  - Unconferenz 2011 Website

Techhui.com/group/unconferenz/  -
Forum and discussion on session topics

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] RSync help

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:40 PM, James Handsel  wrote:
>
> Got it, thanks.  I'll give it a try.  Any idea what the oldest version of 
> rsync is, that supports this format?

I think version 2.6.0 from 01 JAN 2004.

http://rsync.samba.org/ftp/rsync/src/rsync-2.6.0-NEWS

NEWS for rsync 2.6.0 (1 Jan 2004)
Protocol: 27 (changed)
Changes since 2.5.7:

  ENHANCEMENTS:

* "ssh" is now the default remote shell for rsync.  If you want to
  change this, configure like this:  "./configure --with-rsh=rsh".

I hope you have a good reason for using a version that old. :)

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] RSync help

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 2:29 PM, James Handsel  wrote:

> I'm syncing daily activity from the office server to a remote server, and
> then running the backup on the remote server.  But the fact that rsync runs
> as "nobody" on the office server creates issues syncing files that "nobody"
> doesn't have permission to access.  All the doc's I've read seem to suggest
> that rsync can be run via ssh as root, but I'm clearly missing something.
>  Is it your experience that rsync will always run as "nobody"? and does it
> make any difference if rsync is pushing or pulling the data?
>

The errors are in your rsyncd.conf. Remove it and try to backup from only
the command line, then put that in your scripts.

Here's an example that works with [recent versions] of rsync. It autodetects
that SSH is needed:

rsync -a root@remoteserver:/opt/ /backup/opt/

If you run that as root, then the UID/GID for the remote files will be
preserved. If you run as a non-root user, you still can read as root, but
you write out files as the local backup user.

Should that fail, increase your verbosity:

rsync -av --progress -e "ssh -v" root@remoteserver:/opt/ /backup/opt/

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] RSync help

[Vince Hoang]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 2:24 PM, James Handsel  wrote:

> Sorry for the slow follow up, here are all the relevant files . . .
>
> There's a fair amount of extraneous info, but I left everything intact, in
> case it comes into play.
>

For complex backups, rather than write your own script, you might want to
try these tools instead:

  http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/
  http://www.nongnu.org/rdiff-backup/

Right now my big question is why does rsync run as "nobody" on the (office)
> server I am pulling the sync from.  Also, ANY pointers for increasing
> efficiency or eloquence would be welcome.
>

Rsyncd runs as nobody by default to reduce the odds of you exposing
sensitives to the world. If you want to write your own script, I'd suggest
disabling rsyncd and try to stuff all your options into the shell script.
You should be able to read all files as root.

 -Vince
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Re: [LUAU] RSync help

[Vince Hoang]

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Clifton Royston <
clift...@iandicomputing.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 04:24:42PM -1000, James Handsel wrote:
> > Anybody out there good w/rsync?  I'm using it to sync data between an
> > office and a remote server and then running a backup on the remote
> > server and could use some help working out the kinks.
>

Can you post your script to the list or a pastebin so we can better see what
you are trying to do?


> That part gets to be a pain and I have to figure it out again each
> time.  However it's more of an ssh issue than an rsync issue; when you
> can log in from the backup account on the sending server to the backup
> account on the remote machine without needing to type more than "ssh",
> it'll work unattended for rsync.
>

You can pass custom ssh keys to rsync using -e.

If you don't mind a level of abstraction, you can preconfigure your ssh
settings into your ~/.ssh/config file and only specify the host on your
rsync line.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Netgate and pfSense

[Vince Hoang]

On Jan 9, 2011, at 1:19 PM, Clifton Royston  wrote:

> I see one of the vendors the pfSense people recommend is Netgate, for
> PC-Engine ALIX boards and cases.  Is that Jim Thompson's Netgate?  That
> would be a plus if so.

Netgate is Jim's company. I added him to the bcc.

I used m0n0wall, the pfSense precursor, on Soekris with success on single WAN 
uplinks.

Let us know how the dual uplink configuration goes!

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Using a 3rd party DNS providers effects routing from CDN's?

[Vince Hoang]

I'd prefer the node with the best overall throughput, even if the latency
may be worse.

If the throughput is better, I suppose you could run your own DNS server.
With BIND, you can configure zone-based forwarders to query
akamai.netaddresses directly and default the rest of your queries to
Google or
OpenDNS.

http://www.isc.org/files/arm96.html

*zone*
Statement Definition and Usage
Zone Types

forward

A "forward zone" is a way to configure forwarding on a per-domain basis. A *
zone* statement of type *forward* can contain a *forward* and/or *forwarders
* statement, which will apply to queries within the domain given by the zone
name. If no *forwarders* statement is present or an empty list for *
forwarders* is given, then no forwarding will be done for the domain,
canceling the effects of any forwarders in the *options* statement. Thus if
you want to use this type of zone to change the behavior of the global *
forward* option (that is, "forward first" to, then "forward only", or vice
versa, but want to use the same servers as set globally) you need to
re-specify the global forwarders.

Happy New Year!

-Vince
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[LUAU] Hawaii centric domain names

[Vince Hoang]

Does anyone have a list of Hawaii domain names, large or small, handy?
Domains like hawaii.rr.com, honolulu.gov, k12.hi.us, lava.net, etc.

-Vince
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[LUAU] embedding JavaScript

[Vince Hoang]

Any C++ hackers out there?

I'm toying with the idea of working on a tool that embeds multiple
JavaScript engines for malware analysis.

Firefox's build tools makes it pretty easy to build a stand alone JS engine
that you can feed files to parse a file at a time, but the embedding
examples look very daunting.

Embedding Chrome's V8 engine looks more doable. I have the V8 engine
compiled as a library, but need the C++ chops to do some basic file parsing
and calling V8 properly.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Contact for HIX

[Vince Hoang]

Any luck?

Whois reports this contact:

OrgTechHandle: ZU32-ARIN
OrgTechName:   University of Hawaii
OrgTechPhone:  +1-808-521-2879
OrgTechEmail:  netcont...@hawaii.edu
OrgTechRef:http://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/ZU32-ARIN

-Vince

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Matt Darnell  wrote:

> Aloha,
>
> We are having some serious issues with the router at 205.166.205.196
>
> It is not passing traffic to our subnetthis is affecting road
> runner & Haw Tel connections.  Our IP's are reachable from places like
> ping.eu
>
> Does anyone have a contact number for someone at HIX?  I have sent
> emails to netw...@hawaii.edu.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Aloha,
> Matt
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[LUAU] eWaste event - Saturday, October 30 from 9:00am to 3:00 pm

[Vince Hoang]

Be sure to zero out your HDs with DBAN (http://www.dban.org/) before disposing.

Via @hawaii (Ryan Ozawa): http://www.hawaii.edu/ewaste/

Welcome to the Public information page for Hawai‘i’s Biennial
Education & Government eWaste Disposal Days 2010, sponsored by the
University of Hawai‘i. We're glad that you've taken this first step
with us in reducing pollution through earth-friendly disposal of your
unwanted end-of-life electronics in an environmentally safe manner,
regardless of the manufacturer, free of charge.

If you represent a public or private school or university; any City,
County, State or Federal/Military branches in Hawai‘i, a small to
medium sized business (of less than 100 employees) or a non-profit
that wishes to dispose of ewaste through this program please visit the
Institutional registration page for details.
Guidelines for Participation

This program is open for Hawai‘i household residents who wish to
dispose of personal ewaste on Saturday, October 30 from 9:00am to 3:00
pm; no need for households to register. Residents may drive in to one
of six drop off locations on The Big Island, Kaua‘i, Maui, or Oahu to
recycle their personal end-of-life electronics. Please click on a site
below to view a printable map to its drop-off location. Also, review
the list of acceptable ewaste items before you drive to any of the
drop-off sites located at:

University of Hawai‘i at Hilo
John A. Burns School of Medicine (JABSOM)
Kaua‘i Community College
Leeward Community College
University of Hawai‘i Maui College
Windward Community College
Kealakehe High School (Kona)

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Web APIs

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Mark Johnson  wrote:
> We are starting development on an API for our platform, and learning
> from the big guys (twitter, facebook, linkedin).  Sounds like they are
> all moving towards OAuth 2.0.  We will be developing an OAuth 2
> server/provider as well as writing several clients (to connect with da
> big guys).  We plan to open source a few of the clients (probably
> twitter, facebook) - all will be developed in ruby.
>
> Anyone else playing with OAuth 2?  Would be great to swap notes -

It looks like there is a lot in flux with the libraries.

Not sure how much this will help you as a provider, but I'm looking at
OmniAuth next: 
http://intridea.com/2010/10/4/omniauth-flexible-authentication-for-rack.

-Vince
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[LUAU] Trouble-Maker - intentionally breaking your OS

[Vince Hoang]

http://trouble-maker.sourceforge.net/

This might be useful for folks learn better than fixing things that
are broken or want to prepare for the RHCE.

Let me know what you think or know of other projects that resemble this.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Web APIs

[Vince Hoang]

> On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 1:22 AM, Vince Hoang  wrote:
> I have been working with Django, which i guess is really more of a
> framework than an api. It's Python based and has been fun to use for a
> couple of projects.

For perfectionists with deadlines? There are a few Django fans on list.

I bought the book, watched some webcasts from Adrian Holovaty and
Jacob Kaplan-Moss, made 'Hello, world!' off of the subversion
repository and stopped there.

Are they projects you would like to share?

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Web APIs

[Vince Hoang]

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 6:23 AM, R. Scott Belford  wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Vince Hoang  wrote:
>> Is anyone dabbling with web APIs? I started exploring
>> http://dev.twitter.com/ with ruby tonight.
>
> I am. The data made available via their API has the most potential of
> Twitter. Before he left, Alex Payne put a lot into its utilitarian
> functionality. It's this statistical stew that is their wealth. What
> kind of fun are you having with the data?

Nothing exciting... yet. I'm mostly trying to get a better
understanding of the APIs to potentially create feeds from non-web2.0
savy sites and on the appsec side, see how applications are
implemented poorly.

-Vince
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[LUAU] Web APIs

[Vince Hoang]

Is anyone dabbling with web APIs? I started exploring
http://dev.twitter.com/ with ruby tonight.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF mirror access via FTP?

[Vince Hoang]

My 2 guesses are you are running into some active/passive FTP chicanery or
trying to hit the IPv6 address and not falling back on the IPv4 address.

-Vince

2010/4/25 Brian Chee 

> Ok kewl...but to get the .iso into the VMWare system (without the GUI
> making
> my life miserable) I need traditional FTP from the command lineso if
> HOSEF's mirror has this, what address do I use?
>
> Mirrors.hosef.org and ftp.hosef.org refuse connection from my FTP client.
>
> /brian chee
>
>
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[LUAU] software appliances

[Vince Hoang]

Is anyone building software appliances?

On the small end, I have been building VMs based on Debian to keep things
lean but I'm taking a closer look at the Ubuntu-based JeOS and TurnKey Linux
to make them more portable. TurnKey does use webmin and thus perl, so I'm
not sure if I can overcome my old biases. :)

-Vince
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[LUAU] OpenSSH 5.4 release

[Vince Hoang]

http://www.openssh.com/txt/release-5.4

The changelog has a lot of items but what stuck out the most is that  
SSH 1 is now off by default.


I'm wondering a bit about what distros will take a similar stance,  
since SSH 2 has been out for a very long time.


-Vince
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[LUAU] Fwd: [Bytemarks] Unconferenz 2010 schedule

[Vince Hoang]

There is still time to sign up. See you there!

-Vince

Begin forwarded message:


From: Burt Lum
Date: February 23, 2010 22:19:00 HST
To: bytemarks@
Subject: [Bytemarks] Unconferenz 2010 schedule
Reply-To: bytema...@yahoogroups.com




I just posted this planned schedule on the Unconferenz ning site at:

http://unconferenz.ning.com

Please come early as we have 45 minutes to register and layout the  
session schedule. The first session will start at 9am.


8:00am - 8:45am Registration and session sign up (Cafeteria-Ohia)
9:00am - 9:50am Session 1 (Kalia)
10:00am - 10:50am Session 2 (Kalia)
11:00am - 11:50am Session 3 (Kalia)
12:00 noon - 1:00pm Lunch (Cafeteria)
1:15pm - 2:05pm Session 4 (Kalia)
2:15pm - 3:05pm Session 5 (Kalia)
3:15pm - 4:00pm Wrap up (Cafeteria-Ohia)
__._,_.___


__,_._,___

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Re: [LUAU] Favorite SATA or PATA RAID controllers

[Vince Hoang]

Are there options besides 3ware?

-Vince

On Feb 10, 2010, at 12:22, Brian Chee  wrote:

I need to mirror (RAID 1) and was wondering about the collective  
option on

PCI RAID controllers

These are going into 1RU SuperMicro machines that tend to run  
hotso that
is a bit of a consideration. I’d like to use the same RAID controlle 
r for

both Windows 2003 Server AND Debian Linux both...

/brian chee

--
Brian Chee
University of Hawai'i at Manoa
School of Ocean and Earth Sciences and Technology (SOEST)
2525 Correa Road, HIG 500
Honolulu, HI 96822
Tel: 808-956-5797


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Re: [LUAU] Honolulu WiFi antenna sales?

[Vince Hoang]

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 6:44 PM, R. Scott Belford  wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Vince Hoang  wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Brian Chee  wrote:
>>> So does anyone stock and sell 2.4ghz panel antennas in Honolulu? I¹m looking
>>> for something in the 65 to 90 degree spread with at around 12dbi of gain
>>> hopefully with N connectors on it. It needs to be pole mounted so I would
>>> also need a mounting kit. I need it quick so if I can¹t find a Honolulu
>>> dealer that has them, I gotta send my bucks to the mainland.
>
> You could ask Jim with Netgate, and you may want to check with Wilson
> Chan with the City.  Nam Vu of Shakanet might also have some ideas.
> They deploy a lot of hardware and both have sources.

Brian is in contact with Jim.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Honolulu WiFi antenna sales?

[Vince Hoang]

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Brian Chee  wrote:
> So does anyone stock and sell 2.4ghz panel antennas in Honolulu? I¹m looking
> for something in the 65 to 90 degree spread with at around 12dbi of gain
> hopefully with N connectors on it. It needs to be pole mounted so I would
> also need a mounting kit. I need it quick so if I can¹t find a Honolulu
> dealer that has them, I gotta send my bucks to the mainland.

Have you asked Jim at Netgate? He might have some on island. I don't
think he rejoined the list after the Great Debacle.

-Vince
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[LUAU] Aloha on Rails

[Vince Hoang]

http://www.alohaonrails.com/

Is anyone on the list going? Let me know on or off list.

-Vince
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[LUAU] Shubbery's TACACS+

[Vince Hoang]

Has anyone tried using Shubbery's TACACS+ daemon to centralize
authentication with networking devices? I can at least tell you it compiles
cleanly on Linux. It is based on Cisco's TACACS+ code and may be the best
route if you have to avoid buying a commercially supported product such as
Cisco ACS.

http://shrubbery.net/tac_plus/
http://tacacs.org/

It is rather underdocumented but the blog at tacacs.org has some recipes.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Relocating to Maui, Social networking

[Vince Hoang]

Hi!

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Mike Luther  wrote:
>   Sorry to bring some only vaguely Linux oriented conversation into the
> mix, but I'm an oldschool Linux user and all around professional Unix
> Operations guy who is in the planning stages of a move to Maui.
>
> Basically I'm looking for someone on-island who can give me a view into
> (the existence of?) any semblance of LUG or Unix users group on Maui...
> whether within UH, MHPCC, etc.. or IS this that group?

LUAU is mostly a mailing list these days.There hasn't been much
interest and time in organizing any regular meetings. Very few
non-HOSEF (a FOSS-based charity) meetups happened after MPLUG (an Oahu
LUG) folded.

I think most of the LUAU membership is based on Oahu. A few folks from
the Big Island are/were subscribed. I hope some Maui locals chime in
so you can organize something.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Luau lists ?

[Vince Hoang]

The LUAU list has traditionally been quiet, before and after the move.

I moved the LUAU list from hosef.org to freesoftwarehawaii.org this
summer, but the old list is still live. You can read up on the old
archives around spring of this year to get a little insight, but it is
not something I want to rehash anytime soon.

That said, http://mirrors.hosef.org/ has been rebuilt. Scott did all
the work but I am looking to help out where I can.

-Vince
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[LUAU] on meet ups

[Vince Hoang]

I help host the list but member participation such as user group
meetings are up to you. Let me know what you want to do and the
information can be hosted on freesoftwarehawaii.org.

If you are interested in socializing in real life more than the *nix
crowd can offer, check out Flickr Friday, Honolulu Coders and Manoa
Geeks for starters.

-Vince
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[LUAU] did everyone patch their DNS servers?

[Vince Hoang]

If you couldn't, here are ways to randomize your source port to help
mitigate the attack with iptables or pf:

http://cipherdyne.org/blog/2008/07/mitigating-dns-cache-poisoning-attacks-with-iptables.html
http://blog.spoofed.org/2008/07/mitigating-dns-cache-poisoning-with-pf.html

-Vince
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[LUAU] list maintenance

[Vince Hoang]

The old hosef.org is being cleaned out. Membership on the
freesoftwarehawaii.org will remain unaffected.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] list move to freesoftwarehawaii.org

[Vince Hoang]

No, that is not necessary. The entire membership list was migrated.

-Vince

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Al Plant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Aloha Vince
>
> Does this require us to resubscribe or something?
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[LUAU] list move to freesoftwarehawaii.org

[Vince Hoang]

We are finishing up the move to http://lists.freesoftwarehawaii.org/.
The archives are alive and well here:
http://lists.freesoftwarehawaii.org/pipermail/luau-freesoftwarehawaii.org/

Let me know if you encounter problems.

-Vince
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[LUAU] Fedora Hawaii 2008 - Tuesday, June 3rd, 2008 6:00pm

[Vince Hoang]

Follow the link. It is wonderfully concise.

-Vince
-- Forwarded message --
From: R. Scott Belford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Subject: Announcing Warren for Next Week
To: Vince Hoang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Julian Yap <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


In case this announcement does not make it to you or to the LUAU list
in a timely manner, you may want to share this.  Warren will be
speaking on Tuesday.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events/FedoraHawaii2008
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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF Mirrors offline?

[Vince Hoang]

Scott took them offline for maintenance. You might want to contact him
off list to see what his plans are for it.

-Vince

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Wilson Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Haven't been able to access mirrors.hosef.org the last few weeks. Is the
> rebuild finally happening on the new hdds?
>
>
> -Wilson
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[LUAU] Fwd: Bad Random Number Generator

[Vince Hoang]

-- Forwarded message --
From: R. Scott Belford
Date: Tue, May 13, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Subject: Bad Random Number Generator



One of you may want to post something to LUAU about the Debian/Ubuntu
ssh/ssl issue.  If you think anyone uses it, you may also want to let
it be known that the mirrors will be taken down for maintenance.

--scott
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Re: [LUAU] Anybody interested in on-island Red Hat (RHCE) training?

[Vince Hoang]

http://www.pcatt.org/pcatt/partners/redhat.html

Red Hat does have representation here. PCATT has been part of the Red
Hat Academy for several years now. The main instructor got a perfect
score when he took the RHCE exam.

It may be slower paced than you might like, especially if you have to
drive into Honolulu twice a week if/when the classes run. The worst
part is the demand is low, so the classes do not run often, at least
when I checked last.

-Vince

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 12:12 PM, John Call <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> https://www.redhat.com/courses/rh300_rhce_rapid_track_course_and_rhce_exam/
>
>  So -- not to be too wordy -- I'm asking, would anybody on island be
> interested in participating in the RH300 / RHCE course if it were hosted at
> BYUH?  My idea is that anybody interested in attending would pay about 1/6
> the total cost ($2,396.11).  Please keep in mind that the RH300 course is a
> 5-day course, four days of lecture and one day of certification testing (Mon
> - Fri).
>
>  Thanks,
>  John
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Re: [LUAU] Is this list still alive...

[Vince Hoang]

If you review the archives, the volume was pretty low before the storm
as well. Most of the traffic before came from Jim and Scott.

What sort of activity do you want to see now? Michael tried kick
starting things with his Django presentation. I registered
freesoftwarehawaii.org to potentially move away from hosef.org. I am
willing to step down as moderator as well if it means discussions
improve.

-Vince

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 3:47 AM, John Call <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm new to the list -- I think I subscribed just after some things happened.
> Too bad.  I hope to see some activity return to the list.
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Re: [LUAU] list "moderation"

[Vince Hoang]

On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Ronald Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Can you explain what's involved?  Are you referring to administration of
>  the LUAU Mailman list on Dreamhost?

I am adding you now.

-Vince

PS. I am cleaning out some membership addresses that have mail
disabled due to bounced addresses.
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Re: [LUAU] list "moderation"

[Vince Hoang]

My moderation actions have been undone.

The archives are public. No posted have been redacted. The people I
removed from the list have asked not to be resubscribed but they are
free to rejoin.

Can someone else volunteer to take the helm now?

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] list "moderation"

[Vince Hoang]

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Gary Sublett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Vince asked for input from list members and I provided mine.

Thanks. I would appreciate suggestions on alternatives that would
achieve the goal of keeping personal attacks off list. I want HOSEF
content back on hosef-managers, but it is the personal attacks that
triggered my [extreme] reaction.

>  You advocate stronger moderation, I disagree. Had there not been the
>  reported "moderation" (censorship) on the HOSEF managers list would we
>  be discussing this?

+1. Sounds hypocritical doesn't it?

I don't like what I did but feel emergency moderation would have been
worse. I don't want heavy moderation and tried repeatedly on list and
off list to get the flames down. (They are still going quite heavily
off list and I don't think that will change soon.)

In a few days, we will need to look into me relinquishing my moderator
bit and/or moving the list to another domain.

Lots of people need to grow up, myself included.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] list "moderation"

[Vince Hoang]

You just don't get it. I am not turning on emergency moderation.
Instead, I will remove both of you from LUAU until you settle your
differences. I do not begrudge either of you. I think you both want
what is best for HOSEF, but your strong personalities prevent you from
finding common ground.

You idea of containment does not work in the Internet age. I tried
keeping this venue open in your defense. By closing off both
hosef-managers and LUAU, the disagreement will spill elsewhere, and
likely where you will not be able to retract the discussion.

If any subscribers disagree, let me know.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:24 PM, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  The question becomes, "What is the better path?"
>
>  Is it better to leave and minimize personal liability, or is it better
>  to stand and face the wrath of someone now used to getting their way?

In spirit and time, Scott == HOSEF. I simply do not see HOSEF
succeeding without him. Unfortunately, he choose to not give himself
any voting rights on the board and set himself up for legal anguish.
That was a huge mistake and I hope that he pulls through and fixes it.
(I would prefer he proceed without a board to avoid future conflicts
like this, even if it means dropping the non-profit status.)

To be blunt? Take the high road and leave. Why fight and drag this on
instead of redirecting your precious time and energy positively? Start
something new and possibly better. Compete with Scott in a friendly
way for mind share. You have good ideas that can complement HOSEF and
Scott's efforts. I already registered a domain for this, unless you
can think of something better than freesoftwarehawaii.org. If you have
the time, the kuokoa distribution project could become its
cornerstone.

>  If a watch has a broken mainspring, you can restore the watch to
>  functionality by replacing the spring.

Much like your eWaste stance, get a new watch.

-Vince
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[LUAU] list "moderation"

[Vince Hoang]

Let me know if you want my to give up "moderation" of the list and
hand it to Scott. It is currently hosted on lists.hosef.org right now.

I use "moderation" in quotes because I have tried very, very hard not
to resort to heavy moderation and instead try to convince others to
self-moderate.

If you want me to continue to moderate, we will likely have to move
the lists away from hosef.org and over to a new domain like
freesoftwarehawaii.org.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[Vince Hoang]

Stop adding fuel to the fire. Anyone that cares knows the situation.
There is no need to rehash. Help move this conversation forward.

Drop the emergency moderation and take it to hosef-managers.

-Vince
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[LUAU] list archive changes

[Vince Hoang]

I just changed the list archives from public to private. I hope to
switch it back to public once things die down.

Scott, I strongly recommend you remove emergency moderation and do the
same. The discussions belong on hosef-managers but will continue to
leak out to LUAU if you do not. The private archives will keep the
search engines from caching posts people might regret having written.
We can work on redacting later.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF

[Vince Hoang]

This is progress. Thank you.

Is it possible to move this off of LUAU? I suggest removing moderation
on hosef-managers, flip the archive from public to private and attempt
to reach a compromise. I would even suggest we consider redaction of
messages that contain personal attacks.

I am skeptical that the Scott and the board can reach an agreement, so
I am still hoping for a fork().

-Vince

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 4:43 AM, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  (In turn, I'll public apologize to Scott here and now for my part in
>  the escalation.)
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Re: [LUAU] Mail Back: USPS to recycle (some) e-waste free of charge

[Vince Hoang]

I suggest you drop this last paragraph and send it to hosef-managers.
The discourse belongs there. If your message lacks personal attacks,
it should be let through. (This should not imply that I condone the
moderation.)

-Vince

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  I can't post this discussion to hosef-managers, because Scott has
>  erected himself as "moderator" of that list, and has already chosen to
>  reject messages at his whim.
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Re: [LUAU] high performance SCP/SSH

[Vince Hoang]

On 2/17/08, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> For me the result (to www.netgate.com) was 706385 so I get a very nice
> boost from this patch:
>
> downstream bandwidth: 5Mbps or 5,000,000 bps
> rss as measured by ping: 141.277ms, or 0.141277


Has anyone else tried the HPN-SSH patches?

-Vince

(If anyone wants to continue with the anti-OpenBSD sub-thread, please move
it to
http://reddit.com/r/programming/info/68smc/comments/ under lalaland4711)
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Re: [LUAU] Low-cost Linux hardware

[Vince Hoang]

On 1/20/08, Michael J Wise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What's best these days for a cheap, headless Linux server to use for
> setting up a small server or cluster?
> No need, as such, just yet, for RAID.
> Although I would prefer something that fits in a rack, and that was
> inexpensive.

Have you considered renting virtual servers? There are tons of VPS
hosting options available now, lots for under $20/mo. If you take
electricity and space requirements into consideration, it may pay off.
If you fubar your image, starting up a fresh new image might be faster
than reinstalling from a bootable CD.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] help on port 25

[Vince Hoang]

On 11/9/07, goku ball z <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> yes I tried everthing
>
>   telnet domain.com 25
>   telnet host.domain.com 25
>   telnet mail.domain.com 25
>
>   the only thing that works is telnet localhost 25
>   =(

My best guess is the default install has postfix only listening on
localhost. Check the inet_interfaces option in main.cf. A `netstat -an
| grep :25`  or `lsof -ni TCP:25` will tell you if postfix is actually
binding to more than localhost on tcp/25.

>   Quoting goku ball z :
>
> > sorry Jon, for security reason, I changed the ip address and the domain

The problem with you masking your IP and domain name for security
reasons creates problems for those trying to help you. If your DNS is
wrong we cannot explicitly tell you what is wrong.

Here is a very good Postfix book:
http://www.amazon.com/Book-Postfix-State-Art-Transport/dp/1593270011/
and a good DNS book:
http://www.amazon.com/DNS-BIND-5th-Cricket-Liu/dp/0596100574
and a good Linux book:
http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Administration-Handbook-2nd-Nemeth/dp/0131480049

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] how resilient is linux with repeated cold reboots?

[Vince Hoang]

On 10/30/07, Charles Lockhart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have had Linux installs in the past which eventually took the long
> sleep from being cold booted too many times, but the newer distros
> seem pretty resilient.  Still, the machine is dying and being
> restarted many times per day, sometimes many times per hour, as I
> tinker with the DSP code on the board trying to fix the problem.

Try to work towards making as much of the file system read only as
possible and isolating the writes into one file system / partition.
RAID is almost always a good idea but in the case of the OS locking up
frequently due to hardware problems, I suspect you will see lots of
issues with broken RAID mirrors with the OS locking up frequently.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] all your GPU are belong to us

[Vince Hoang]

On 10/25/07, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If passwords weren't "dead" already, this (or having the botnet do it
> on the CPUs) finished them.


In a world where bank PINs are 4 numeric digits can you suggest practical
alternatives? Biometrics are not mature enough. Two-factor authentication
has existed for a long time but is not cost effective for the average
consumer.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] POSTFIX......

[Vince Hoang]

On 10/18/07, Clifton Royston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 04:35:44AM -0700, goku ball z wrote:
> > Hi all, I have a question regarding postfix.
> >
> >   I was searching and reading some books about postfix.  But they really
> didn't get in to non unix email accounts.  So my question is...
> >   Is there a way without using mysql database to create non unix email
> accounts?  I know that you can have many domains, but I am more concern
> about non unix email accounts...
>
>   This is of course really a Postfix question, and as you get into more
> detail you will probably need to try the postfix-users mailing list and
> read it for a bit.


I think it is an answer to the wrong question. If the question is really
"how to I set up a mail system for non-unix users," one good answer is to
use Zimbra, bundling anti-spam, imap, ldap, pop, smtp and webmail all into
one system.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Re: [buug] nano help!!!!

[Vince Hoang]

On 10/16/07, Peter Besenbruch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > goku ball z wrote:
> >> setenv EDITOR/usr/local/bin/./nano  ( which didn't work )
> >> then I tried this also
> >> setenv EDITOR/usr/local/bin/nano  (which also didn't work)


Setting the EDITOR only helps when you use a program that calls an editor
such as crontab, mutt and pine.


> What about putting a link in /usr/bin to your Nano executable? I don't
> run Suse, but that's what Debian does. It's odd that they would put Nano
> in /usr/local/bin, as that usually isn't in the path. Try "man ln".
> Frankly, I find it easier to do links with Midnight Commander, sometimes
> called "mc."


It is a BSD thing to install packages under /usr/local, but since the
problem is on SuSE, I suspect in this case it was a local install from the
source package (sh configure && make && sudo make install).

NetOpsCenter wrote:
> > I run FreeBSD here in Hawaii,  but I added the LUAU list to this email.
> > Plenty local Linux users on it could maybe help you.
>
> Whatever works.


The solution is the same in both: fix the PATH. For tcsh, the OP will want
to add something like the following to your .tcshrc file:

set PATH = ($PATH /usr/local/bin)

Using a symlink will work too, but using a custom PATH will continue to work
for other local package installations.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] help with iptables

[Vince Hoang]

I tend to not use Linux for dual-homed hosts, but this should be very
doable.

Have you enabled logging to see what rules are matching first? It seems
strange that you want to block internal access to tcp/80, but if this is
true, you can configure the web server to bind to only the external
interface/IP so there is nothing to filter out on the internal interface.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Aloha List Monitor

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 04:02:35PM -1000, NetOpsCenter wrote:
> Julian Yap wrote:
> >http://lists.hosef.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luau
>
> I already tried doing it from that link and it didn't delete
> for me.

Mailman requires a double opt-in to subscribe and a double
opt-out to unsubscribe to help guard against mail spoofing.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] hosef MIRROR

[Vince Hoang]

On Sun, Mar 25, 2007 at 04:57:20PM -1000, Julian Yap wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-03-25 at 16:24 -1000, HawaiiDakine.com wrote:
> > 1. Why is the size of the ISO file for free BSD 6.2 on the
> > Hosef mirror small compared with the ones I download from the
> > FreeBSD site?



> On HOSEF.org, it's shown in Megabytes.
>
> So 6.2-RELEASE-i386-disc1.iso = 573.3M
>
> On FTP mirrors it's in Kilobytes (so 587138 KB).
>
> Is that what you mean? Make sure you do MD5/SHA checks, too.

I think there was some MB/KB confusion as well. Just in case, I
verified that the md5sums on the HOSEF mirror match those of the
main FreeBSD ftp mirror.

> > 2. Can we place the ISO snapshot of Current 7.* in
> > development on the mirror? They update it about every 2
> > months.

When the new hard disks are installed we should have more space,
so all I would need is an rsync target for the snapshots.

If you follow -CURRENT, you might as well be updating via cvsup
and run mergemaster/buildworld/installworld.

> I'd also like AMD64 images (for the latest production release
> only should be fine).

I updated the scripts to grab -RELEASE versions of 6.2 and up
of i386 and amd64. When 7.0 is released, the scripts should
automatically pull those ISO files without any changes to the
rsync scripts.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] hosef MIRROR

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Mar 21, 2007 at 06:13:00PM -1000, HawaiiDakine.com wrote:
> I would like to ask about an addition to the FreeBSD segment.

What do you need? The only arbitrary limitation I am placing
on what to mirror is that the source have an rsync target to
download from. (Unless someone volunteers to update the cvsup
port for Linux.)

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] From the Star Bulletin

[Vince Hoang]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 05:43:47PM -1000, 808blogger wrote:
> sorta wonder how the city and county can actually get away
> with this? this is not very in the spirit of OSS , especially
> publiclly funded access. For this exact reason the government
> should stay out of brokering any level access for public
> facilities...

I think it would be fair to say that when compared to the members
of this list, the general public would prefer more perceived
safety at the cost of information freedom.

Would it have been better to be uncompromising on the filtering
issue and have the community say no to free wireless access?

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Re: Linux HD Recovery

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 05:49:20PM -1000, John S. Johnson wrote:
>   PV /dev/sda2VG VolGroup00   lvm2 [1.84 GB / 64.00 MB free]

It seems like you need to rename your volume group.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8874

The article describes how to create your missing volume group
configuration using dd and using the new configuration file to
activate the old volume group with vgcfgrestore. 

If this works, run vgcfgbackup and copy /etc/lvm to some place
outside of your logical volume, like /boot/lvm.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Linux HD Recovery

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 01:32:34AM -1000, John S. Johnson wrote:
> HD is intact, but the motherboard is kaput. It's an old Athlon
> and the system I am attaching it to via external USB drive is a
> recent Dell. I don't think it would be bootable, since the OS
> is so different(even if I put the drive inside).

Did you try? The two stumbling blocks to this approach are the
processor and hard disk controller. If those are compatible and
the filesystems are intact, it should come right up.

If that fails, then boot off Knoppix and try a vgscan. What would
really help is copy of your lvm config which unfortunately sits
under /etc/lvm.

> Also, since the system went down hard, I am sure there are
> going to be inconsistencies with the drive. Although I don't
> have drive in front of me, I believe I remember having problems
> stemming from inconsistencies when I ran vgscan and vgchange
> ???a y. How can I clean up the inconsistencies? Thanks!

A quote from DriverSavers if your data is important.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Linux HD Recovery

[Vince Hoang]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 05:48:08PM -1000, John S. Johnson wrote:
> /dev/sdb2   /mnt/tempdrive2   auto  defaults, ro  0 0 
> I can mount sdb1 but sdb2 flags me with the error:
> mount: you must specify the filesystem type

You need to mount the logical volume and not the raw partition.

> Looking at the drive with fdisk shows me that sdb1 is Linux
> and sdb2 is a Linux LVM drive...any ideas on how to get sdb2
> mounted? Thanks in advance!!

If the HD is intact, you can probably move it to the primary IDE
interface and boot straight off of it.

If you want a more manual approach, start with this:

  vgscan && vgdisplay && lvscan

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] HDs for mirrors.hosef.org

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 05:51:10PM -1000, HawaiiDakine.com wrote:
> I'll give a $50.00 check to the mirror server project with the
> hopes of FreeBSD being part of it.

Done! http://mirrors.hosef.org/FreeBSD/

I cheated, FreeBSD ISOs have been there for at least two years
now. CVSup is a bigger hurdle. Any modula 3 hackers out there?

I doubt the old motherboard supports PCI-X, but the 3ware
9500S-4LP should work. (SATA, RAID1+0).

> To whom do I send the tax deductable gift? Hosef?

HOSEF
PO Box 392
Kailua, HI 96734

Since Michael offered to help, I am going to ask him to handle
the order and have HOSEF reimburse him. Let Scott know if you
need a donation receipt.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] s/hosef.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors.hosef.org/g

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 11:37:09PM -1000, Jimen Ching wrote:
> And Vince, the following is directed at the LUAU list as a
> whole and not you personally. Even though I'm using your qoute;
> I'm only using it to make a point.

Not a problem. Your participation over the years has been
certainly valued and welcomed.

> Concerning this qoute: "... the non-technical ones are a
> complete eye-sore." I know the following will sound like a
> lecture, and I know a lot of you already know about FOSS and
> the ideas behind it. But I think we sometimes need reminding
> of what this concept is all about. I know I sometimes forget
> myself...

My point is you and Jim probably agree with each other more than
with me but end up spending lots of time arguing minor points.

And if it was important, why is the subject untouched? There
would be lots more Google juice for this sub-thread if it was.

> Well, that's another point I want to make concerning the qoute 
> above. Which is--not only should LUAU be open to all topics
> of Linux and FOSS, it should be open to all organizations as   
> well.  

We are in agreement here. I doubt anyone disagrees. We just get
stuck on the statement "HOSEF is LUAU". I happen to disagree with
that, surprise! But I also think it matters little because I
participate on this forum and the non-profit to the extent that I
am willing and able. 

My only regret there is not actually having met Jim or Julian.
You and I have not been introduced in real life for that matter.

> If you've read all the way to this sentence, I thank you for
> giving me your time and reading my opinions.

I do, but still believe a blog, private replies, or over some
beer would be better for such an issue.

If anyone wants to reply to my comments, please do so privately.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] HDs for mirrors.hosef.org

[Vince Hoang]

On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 01:56:05PM -1000, Matt Darnell wrote:
> >Perhaps we should let Vince propose which drive(s) to purchase, @ <
> >$200 each.
> >
> >I think we have "three" hands up to buy one and donate.
> 
> I think there are four people:
> 
> Jim Thompson
> Michael Bishop
> Clifton Royston
> Matt Darnell

Yes. Thanks to Scott for the initial hardware. Thanks to Matt,
Michael, Scott, Warren, and the anonymous HOSEF/McKinley
donations for the second and third round of upgrades.

> I wonder if a SATA add-in card should be added to the wish
> list. I can imagine finding a box to support all the IDE
> devices in four years will be a challenge.

3ware makes the only SATA cards that I have personally known to
work over the past 3 years and a 4-port card will run about $300.
Silicon Image makes sub-$100 cards, but I have not used them in a
year. Adaptec ships too many cards to make any sense of.

Sticking with PATA would be non-ideal, but it is no showstopper.
I think 500GB PATA disks should out live their usefulness in 4
years for file mirror.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] s/hosef.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors.hosef.org/g

[Vince Hoang]

On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 11:52:20PM -1000, Jimen Ching wrote:
> I think if you subscribe to this list for a while, the ratio 
> of bickering to technical discussion should go down. ;-)

One thing I can certainly fault myself for is having too loud
of a voice when I first joined the list and thus drowning out
others. So to make this short...

I certainly welcome more bickering/debates on technical merits,
but the non-technical ones are a complete eye-sore. We are all
not going to agree on whether or not HOSEF == LUAU. Move it to 
a blog where it belongs. k thx.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] s/hosef.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors.hosef.org/g

[Vince Hoang]

On Sun, Dec 17, 2006 at 07:19:08AM -1000, Clifton Royston wrote:
> [Resending - sent from wrong address]

Since your MUA is mutt, here is a send hook for this list:

  send-hook '~C luau@' \
'my_hdr From: Clifton Royston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; ' \
'my_hdr Mail-Followup-To: luau@lists.hosef.org'

For the non-mutt enabled, people can always subscribe their other
e-mail addresses and disable mail delivery to stop the duplicate
mail.

>   I'd be happy to kick in a 3rd, if you want to make it RAID-5
> and double the volume?

I am rather allergic to RAID5 unless it is on a _seriously_ fast
SCSI controller, but we can certainly run a 600GB RAID1 + 500GB
single-disk to get over 1TB of space for the public file mirror
until the second pair can be completed. Are there any other
businesses that want to do any end of the year write offs? :)

Thanks folks. Thank you all very much.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] s/hosef.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors.hosef.org/g

[Vince Hoang]

On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 11:32:48AM -1000, Jim Thompson wrote:
> I thought the idea was to be able to use the bandwidth locally?

For mirrors.hosef.org, yes. For www.hosef.org, no.

> Personally, I'd rather have a Debian/Ubuntu .deb respository, a
> Fedora rpm repository, and a local CVSup tree for freebsd than
> a bunch of ISO images. (Does anyone install from the full ISO
> set any more?)

I personally agree with you, but folks on the list have tended to
ask more for ISOs than repository mirrors. Historically, it has
only been me and Scott that have consistently used the non-ISO
parts of the mirror.

The server currently only supports PATA. With you and Matt
chipping in for new disks, we would be moving from a 250GB
partial RAID1 file mirror to over a 600GB RAID1 file mirror.

With the additional space, more repositories can be added back.
CVSup for FreeBSD would be neat, but we need a working cvsup and
modula3 library for Debian.

> If we ever get the Kuokoa project off the ground, we're doing
> to need a repository for that.

A vserver was prepped a year ago, but probably needs to be rebuilt.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] s/hosef.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors.hosef.org/g

[Vince Hoang]

On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 09:39:56AM -1000, Julian Yap wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-12-16 at 09:08 -1000, Matt Darnell wrote:
> > > The ISOs for various releases have squeezed out most of
> > > the updates, so Julian is correct, only updates for the
> > > Debian and SuSE repositories are available. As the ISOs get
> > > larger, the SuSE repository will drop, and finally Debian.

Over the years, I have noticed that the repositories were not
really used much. The mirrored ISOs turned out to be used more
and involved less maintenance, so I have been leaning heavily
towards mirroring smaller projects and the more popular ISOs.

> > Does the current box have room, or can you use them to bring
> > up a seperate server for the updates?
>
> The current HOSEF server at UH is fully loaded with hard disk
> drives.

The last time there was major maintenance, we moved the disks
around to provide much more space between them to allow for
better cooling. We could physically squeeze more disks into the
server now, but we would give up in reliability because the disks
would sit very close to each other and start sharing IDE chains.

If we get a donation of 250-500GB pairs, it would be worth
pulling out the old disks to upgrade. I think donations in the
100GB range would be best served for school servers.

> > I am sure HOSEF has a box it could donate to LUAU.

I have been arguing against more servers and moving most of the
web content off to a hosted facility and using the existing
server mostly for backups and file service.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] s/hosef.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors.hosef.org/g

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 10:55:43AM -1000, Dave Burns wrote:
> * Should I replace my old repository/repositories with this one or just add
> it to the list?
> * Is there a gpg key somewhere?
> * Any other useful hints regarding how it is intended typically to be used?

I was a little quick in writing my note.

The ISOs for various releases have squeezed out most of the
updates, so Julian is correct, only updates for the Debian and
SuSE repositories are available. As the ISOs get larger, the SuSE
repository will drop, and finally Debian.

For apt, you can add mirrors.hosef.org as a target so apt-get
can multiplex the downloads. For yum/yast, you probably want to
single source from a larger mirror anyway.

You get any relevant gpg keys from the respective distribution.

I will pretty much mirror anything within reason that has a good
rsync upstream mirror. Perl's CPAN is mirrored. I have tried to
mirror ruby's gems, but the mirror masters and I disagree on the
replication method. Python's Cheese Shop should sneak its way in
once they start to need mirrors.

-Vince
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[LUAU] s/hosef.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors.hosef.org/g

[Vince Hoang]

If you still have some apt/yum repositories referring to
hosef.ics.hawaii.edu, you will want to change it soon and replace
it with mirrors.hosef.org. The ICS-based hostname will be removed
shortly.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] Some newbie FreeBSD questions

[Vince Hoang]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2006 at 07:44:40PM -0800, Julian Yap wrote:
> Why is it that when I initially add a package using 'pkg_add'
> it doesn't grab the latest version for that package?

Are you following -RELEASE or -STABLE? I believe the -RELEASE
packages do not get updated. You will have slightly better luck
with the binary packages if you follow -STABLE, but avoiding the
binary packages entirely would be easier if you have enough disk
space.

> How do you keep the /usr/ports directory small?  On my test
> install it's over 1.1GB even after running portsclean with all
> the available options.

You can try purging /usr/ports/distfiles. All the source packages
are downloaded there.

> As it is, I dedicated 4GB of space to my virtual machine and 1.2
> GB to the /usr partition.  So when I run 'portupgrade firefox'
> it runs out of disk space.

You will run into the least problems if your /usr is the largest
partition. To avoid reinstalling, you can move /usr/ports
somewhere else and reference it with a symlink.

If you decide to reinstall, you can keep /, /tmp, and /var
small and stuff the remaining space to /usr, or take the more
Linux-like approach and stick everything under /.

> If you _knew you needed to install some huge port that would
> take up a lot of disk space to build (say Firefox), can you
> make the ports directory really small? Or can you have a _very
> minimal Ports directory?

When you build from source, you need lots of space, sorry. You
can try updating firefox's dependencies slowly and purge the
source files along the way, but it is much faster to find disk.

-Vince
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Re: [LUAU] not using SED to extract song, artist, and album from my iTunes Music List Export

[Vince Hoang]

On Sun, Oct 01, 2006 at 06:58:00AM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
> XML is a problem in search of a problem

It was a sad day when I discovered OS X and Solaris startup
scripts depending on XML files. I certainly would not mind more
compact and easily parsable alternatives like JSON and YAML.

Here is a solution in ruby/rexml that runs natively on OS X 10.4
without requiring any library exports. Podcast subscriptions
are not contained within the XML file, so an OPML export is
unfortunately required to get to those bits.

  #! /usr/bin/env ruby

  require 'rexml/document'

  itunes_index = "#{ENV['HOME']}/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music Library.xml"
  doc = REXML::Document.new IO.read(itunes_index)
  doc.elements.each 'plist/dict/dict/dict' do |entry|
headers = {
  'Name'   => '',
  'Artist' => '',
  'Album'  => '',
}
entry.elements.each do |track|
  if track.name == 'key'
if headers.key? track.text
  headers[track.text] = track.next_sibling.text
end
  end
end
puts "\"#{headers['Name']}\" #{headers['Artist']} ~ #{headers['Album']}"
  end

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] not using SED to extract song, artist, and album from my iTunes Music List Export

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 10:01:03AM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
> >Since XML was brought up, does anyone want to try some
> >programming golf with their favorite language and XML library?
> 
> Eww.. why?

Primarily to flesh out the better XML parsers for those trying to
be language agnostic. I also have a morbid curiosity at seeing an
awk solution as suggested earlier in the thread. :)

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] not using SED to extract song, artist, and album from my iTunes Music List Export

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:08:21AM -1000, Jim Thompson wrote:

> On Sep 27, 2006, at 11:54 PM, Vince Hoang wrote:
>
> >I also had to tell awk to use a carriage-return as the newline
> >instead of linefeed when reading in the file. My version with
> >extraneous use of cat is:
>
> Are you using Windows or something?

No cygwin environment to get cat/awk for many years now, just
python and ruby on my win32 systems these days.

> >  cat itunes-export-file \
> >  | awk '{FS="\t";RS="\r";printf("\"%s\" %s %s\n", $1, $2, $4)}'

The snippet above was tested on 10.4.7 using an export from
iTunes 6.0.5 on an i386 Mac Mini and not an export from Scott's
system. 

I originally had FS and RS wrapped inside a BEGIN block, but was
able to squeeze it down to what you see above. Scott sent me his
export privately and I still had to translate the newlines, but
my awk example broke and had to revert to using a BEGIN block:

  awk 'BEGIN{FS="\t";RS="\r"}{printf("\"%s\" %s %s\n", $1, $2, $4)}'

-Vince

[LUAU] not using SED to extract song, artist, and album from my iTunes Music List Export

[Vince Hoang]

On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:14:50PM -1000, R. Scott Belford wrote:
> Jim Thompson wrote:
> >
> >% awk -F \t '{printf("\"%s\" %s %s\n", $1, $2, $3)}' < itunes-export-file
> >
> 
> I get this output in my terminal
> 
> "Name" Artist Composer

Jim's example prints fields 1, 2, and 3, but you want fields 1,
2, and 4. I also had to tell awk to use a carriage-return as the
newline instead of linefeed when reading in the file. My version
with extraneous use of cat is:

  cat itunes-export-file \
  | awk '{FS="\t";RS="\r";printf("\"%s\" %s %s\n", $1, $2, $4)}'

Since XML was brought up, does anyone want to try some
programming golf with their favorite language and XML library?

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Wordpress upload password, but might be more of an apache issue?

[Vince Hoang]

On Sat, Sep 02, 2006 at 08:50:54PM -1000, Brian Chee wrote:
>> Shouldn't Wordpress's own authentication system be sufficient?
>> Only those who have permission to write blog entries are then
>> able to upload files.
>
> But for this to work I gotta 777 the upload directory...which
> does NOT make me happy...

You can chmod 0700 as long as you chown to the user:group of the
web server user.

Your later message about limiting POST is an additional
authentication step, where the extra user management would need
to be handled out of band. You still cannot avoid the problem of
the web server user owning all the files with this approach.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] after e2fsck, system reverts to 2005

[Vince Hoang]

On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 09:14:57PM -1000, David Imai wrote:
> I was working on a file server that I obtained from HOSEF about
> 2 years ago. It runs Fedora Core 2.6.7, and has two hard drives
> in a RAID system (I think RAID-0). 

> I don't think the system date and time were changed. Does
> anyone have any ideas on what happened?

I am inclined to say that you actually created a RAID 1 volume,
where the mirror broke back in 2005, and you recovered the
submirror that had not been updated since that time. This is the
simplest explanation to me.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Authorization problem on email server

[Vince Hoang]

On Sat, Jul 08, 2006 at 02:34:24PM -1000, Al Plant wrote:
> FreeBSD 6.1
>
> I have installed sendmail imap and pop3. I tried installing
> dovecot. I can still send from the [EMAIL PROTECTED] user to
> anywhere on the inet. However, I get a bad authentication
> passwd err for the same user when I try to download his mail.

You might consider starting with a basic configuration from the
dovecot wiki before enabling various optional bits:

http://wiki.dovecot.org/DovecotServerInstallations/FreeBSD/6.0RELEASE/20Users

The example uses pam, but if that does not work, try pointing
auth_passdb to shadow or passwd-file /etc/master.passwd.

If you are using actual system users, stay away from UW imap and
stick with dovecot.

> The server box has ssh and I can get onto it with the password 
> assigned with no problem. Doesn't the dovecot use the same 
> account passwd for the account?

It assumes you have pam. I am not sure if the FreeBSD port for
dovecot patches the default configuration to account for this.

> Or do I have to enable ssl to use the ssh passwrd system which
> is encrypted? I just left ssl off to run unencrypted for
> testing.

SSH and SSL do not interoperate. See the following link for a
less terse explanation:

http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1818

> This was my problem from the beginning not being able to
> receive, only send to other accounts. But at least dovecot has
> created an err message that says why. I don't know how to fix
> this. Havent found a how to.

Good, because local-host-names should have been all you needed
for sendmail to accept locally bound mail.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Apache Virtual Hosts

[Vince Hoang]

On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 04:38:21PM -1000, Al Plant wrote:
> #NameVirtualHost *:80
> NameVirtualHost 192.168.1.23
> 
> #
> 

I usually keep the configuration at *:80 for both NameVirtualHost
and VirtualHost, but an explicit 192.168.1.23 should work as
well.

Is it possible that your configuration is actually correct, but
your DNS is set wrong? All the hosts you listed on the ServerName
lines should resolve to 192.168.1.23 when you ping them.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Apache Virtual Hosts

[Vince Hoang]

On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 11:28:31AM -0700, Julian Yap wrote:
> A work around could be to install Linux as the operating
> system. Not that I'm biased but I've never had any issue with
> setting up VirtualHosts on Apache 2. 

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/vhosts/name-based.html

If you disregard the pre-fork/thread differences, the
configurations should be essentially the same.

> I've heard that FreeBSD is a lot more difficult in setting up
> when it comes to any web stack.

Apache is really platform-agnostic, see sample snippets for
Debian, FreeBSD, and Windows:

http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/18
http://www.freebsddiary.org/virtualhosts.php
http://www.apptools.com/phptools/virtualhost.php

The only issue with FreeBSD that I am aware of is trying to use
java in the web stack, due to licensing issues. You can download
the JDK for FreeBSD again, but running java on FreeBSD seems to
be a huge liability until Sun decides to switch to an open-source
friendly license for java.

> Hence the acronym LAMP which you can setup out of the box with
> Linux.

This is unfortunate marketing that does not scale. Forget being a
LAMR, get PAID instead!

http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2001/02/on_blarm.html
http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/2006/05/07/Ruby-DB2-now-with-Viper-support
http://trainedmonkey.com/2006/5/4/acronyms
http://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2006/may/03/paid/

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Apache Virtual Hosts

[Vince Hoang]

On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 07:04:58AM -1000, Al Plant wrote:
> I have tried to setup a Virtual hosts server in apache 1.3 (   
> single IP to the box) and I can get only the first domain in   
> the three in the setup I am trying to come up. (moving any of  
> the three to that position works.) 

You left out the virtual hosts part of your config, but my magic
eight-ball says you misset NameVirtualHost. If fixing that fails
to work, paste your  stanzas.

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html

> I read all the docs I could find and can only find some vague
> info that a box running FreeBSD accessed by ssh wont allow
> virtual hosts. If this is true is there a work around?

I think you confused SSL with SSH. There is extra complexity to
the configuration when you host multiple SSL-enabled sites on a
single server.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] FTP Improvements

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 12:55:28AM -1000, R. Scott Belford wrote:
> Let it be known that Vince has done some exceptional work with
> our FTP mirror. We are now running lighttpd.
>
> http://hosef.ics.hawaii.edu

The new URL is http://mirrors.hosef.org/, currently running a
very bare lighttpd as the HTTP daemon. The old FTP daemon is
still running, but is not as responsive.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] a new use for hosef donations (used PCs)?

[Vince Hoang]

On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 10:15:15AM -1000, Hawaii Linux Institute wrote: 
> I am probably old enough to be your grandpa, so please don't
> take my words too seriously. One of the key issues in Samba is
> to manually edit the config file.

Most samba configs should have the home share setup by default.
Provided samba is installed and running, all you would really
need to do then is set a password via smbpasswd and hit the share
with \\$IP\$USER.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] . . . (VMware . . .)

[Vince Hoang]

On Tue, Apr 04, 2006 at 08:50:54PM -1000, Hawaii Linux Institute wrote: 
> I was looking for a non-Samba option (see my first question).  
> OTOH, the "free" VM-Player does not have the "tools" option,   
> as opposed to the $180 real thing. Any other suggestion(s)?

You can try VMware Server. The product is on my own list of
things to try, so I cannot say for certain that it solve the
problem the way you want.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Hosef site down?

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2006 at 09:21:07AM -1000, Wilson Chan wrote:
> Is hosef.org & mirrors.hosef.org down?

The server was wedged since late last night but came back later
this morning. I tripped over myself while moving all the data
disks over to reiserfs on top of MD and LVM for some added
flexibility. Everything was going fine until I twiddled with
hdparm to try to speed things up more. Bad idea.

-Vince

[LUAU] more participation

[Vince Hoang]

LUAU as a traditional LUG predates me. From what I can gather,
HOSEF and old LUAU issues stemmed from personality issues and
lots of empty promises. If we forget about what we "should" do
and focus on what we "will" do, then we can move past all the
past nonsense.

Julian is looking for presenters and topics for the monthly Open
Source Pizza events.

Matt is looking for a venue for an Asterisk meetup. Lots of folks
brought up McKinley, which I think it is a great fit.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Computer books for trade? Perl, PostNuke

[Vince Hoang]

On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 04:17:03PM -0800, Josh wrote:
> I have an addiction to buying computer books. I'm trying to get
> rid of a few because I've moved on to other projects:
>
> * Perl Cookbook (O'Reilly)

This is one of the best ORA books ever written. I have two
copies from when I did a lot of scipting. Even if you never
write another piece of perl code, you can take a lot of it 
and transpose into php or ruby.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Putting the UG back in LUG

[Vince Hoang]

On Sun, Feb 05, 2006 at 08:48:31PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
> In one of the usenix ;login: issues they integrated asterix
> with mythtv, so you can even tie this back in with the original
> project. (Stuff like putting caller id on screen instead of
> ringing the phone when watching a movie).

http://www.usenix.org/publications/login/2005-02/
Voice over IP with Asterisk by Heison Chak

http://www.usenix.org/publications/login/2005-06/
More Asterisk Tricks by Heison Chak

Unless you have a USENIX membership, the second article will not
be available until 2006/06.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Putting the UG back in LUG

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Feb 02, 2006 at 05:45:15PM -1000, Matt Darnell wrote:
> I think some people would appricaite just knowing when FreeBSD
> is appropriate.

When your preferred server OS annoys you enough to switch.

It is easier to run java on Linux. It is easier to run commerical
applications on the enterprise Linux distributions. Outside of
those, it becomes mostly a matter of taste.

You can read or hear about the firewall configuration, package
management, and software RAID management, but you only really
appreciate the differences after using it for a while.

For the home server box, try running a different flavor each year
or two and squeeze as much functionality as you can into it. Very
little is learned by installing something and letting it idle
until it gets overwritten again.

-Vince

[LUAU] on Linux training

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Feb 01, 2006 at 07:59:48PM -1000, Julian Yap wrote:
> What represents the future?  Education and let's use the example of
> certifications.  A few years ago, there weren't _any Linux
> certifications.  Now you have CertCities.com calling the Red Hat
> Certified Engineer the Hottest Certification for 2006
> (http://www.certcities.com/editorial/features/story.asp?EditorialsID=95).
> 
> Today's RHCE will represent tomorrow's CTO.

Oahu is one of the few locations in the country with a local
Red Hat Academy at PCATT. Academies can currently teach and
administer tests for the RHCT and are on their way to providing
the RHCE and security related offerings.

In addition, HOSEF started the negotiations for Novell to offer
a Linux+ derivative to the DOE, catering to folks with no Linux
background. Novell did not have an Academy program that targetted
schools when we first talked to them. The first instructor's
class ran a month ago.

For those that just want solutions, I there is always that
consultant directory that is being setting up. :)

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] TPOSSCON 2006 Gallery pictures and Podcast MP3's

[Vince Hoang]

On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 10:45:33PM -1000, Julian Yap wrote:
> I've also put an iPod friendly MP3 of one of today's speakers Aaron
> Seigo on "How Open Source Software Improves Society":
> http://www.tposscon.com/audio.php

  iTunes
  -> Advanced
 -> Subscribe to Podcast
-> URL: http://www.hosef.org/wordpress/?feed=rss2

-Vince

[LUAU] helping out with TPOSSCON

[Vince Hoang]

http://www.hosef.org/wiki/index.php/Current_events

Scott seems to be very short staffed for volunteers this year.
If you can make the time, much would be appreciated.
(Hypocritically, my name is nowhere on the current roster.)

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Re: UH Manoa

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 07:30:44PM -0800, Josh wrote:
> I've been so busy I still haven't had time to go to
> any meetings...
> 
> I just got into UH Manoa and am going to try to take a
> couple of computer classes.  Does anyone know of any
> professors that are particularly open-source friendly?

I hear great praise for Dr. Philip Johnson and his software
engineering class where you work on java/eclipse/ant/cvs/junit.

Dr. Edo Biagioni's operating systems class makes you hack on the
Linux kernel.

>  I was hoping for classes in Python or open-source web
> programming but I'm not sure if they exist. I don't have
> Windows on my computer anymore and prefer to use it as little
> as possible. Is there anything Linux-related at the University?

You will probably be writing in java for your first two classes.
I cannot speak highly enough for Dr. Dan Suthers. Take his ICS211
class if you can. 

Universities tend to have an agnostic or *nix slant. When I toyed
with the idea of pursuing an ICS masters degree, the ICS program
was java-slanted. I am not sure how much .NET has influenced
things over the past few years.

> I was disappointed that the UH web site student login
> pages only provided help instructions to Windows
> IE/Netscape and Mac Safari users...

Write to the webmaster to update the documentation.

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] Python Creator Guido van Rossum Now Working at Google

[Vince Hoang]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 12:16:20AM -1000, Jim Thompson wrote:
> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/8821
> Wonder if heÅfs getting paid just to hack on Python, sort of
> like how back in the dot-com era O'Reilly used to have Larry
> Wall on the payroll just to support the continued development
> of Perl?

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=171973&cid=14322696

"In any case: yeah, we hired him because we want him to work on
Python itself. And as John says later in this thread -- about
half his time."

-Vince

Re: [LUAU] doing 'e'

[Vince Hoang]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2005 at 06:56:48AM -1000, Jim Thompson wrote:
> Lets see a perl/python/... equivalent to this lisp exercise for 
> obtaining 'e':

I will pass on perl, but here is my attempt in ruby. I would have
made it more functional/lisp-like, but I have not fully grokked
using yield.

  #! /usr/bin/env ruby
  
  class Array
def avg
  inject { |sum, n| sum + n } / length.to_f
end
  end
  
  def wait_time
sum, times = 0, 0
while sum <= 1.0
  sum += rand
  times += 1
end
times
  end
  
  def wait_times(trials)
list = []
trials.times do |t|
  list.push wait_time
end
list
  end
  
  def avg_wait_time(trials)
wait_times(trials).avg
  end
  
  puts 'Some wait times: ' + wait_times(10).join(' ')
  
  trials = [ 1, 10, 100, 1000, 1, 10 ]
  print 'Average wait times:'
  trials.each do |t|
print ' ' + avg_wait_time(t).to_s
  end

Visit http://tryruby.hobix.com/ for an amazingly interactive
tutorial to ruby.

-Vince