Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:57 AM, amjjawad HOOHAA wrote: > Hi, > > I went through the whole thread (37 emails so far) and noticed very simple > thing that I already have noticed long time ago (I know what most of you > will say) which is: we do *NOT *have accurate database of Lubuntu Users > in general and those who are "still" using OLD machines and I mean VERY old > here. > > I like such kind of discussion and I tend to agree with some opinions and > disagree with others but after all, this is very healthy activity > (discussion) but ... as always ... the real question is: isn't it pointless > to discuss such thing without REAL figures? some guys already pointed that > out, I guess. > > Long story short, my simple and humble opinion is: we need a group of > people who do a survey to obtain such figures. No, I have no smart ideas of > HOWTO do that but if we could discuss about this, that would be VERY > helpful. Perhaps we are wasting our time here and there are only 2-3 users > with such old machines? for me, Lubuntu 10.04 didn't work on this: > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614 while Mint LXDE 9 did. > Both may be using the same kernel but I'm not really sure why Lubuntu > didn't work. Also, perhaps they are many users that will be affected with > that drop? so we need some figures. > > Just a thought I'd like to share with all, as usual :) > > Thanks! > The problem with a survey is that it will never be representative, since it is opt-in, and even more unrepresentative based off of where it's publicized (i.e. a poll of lubuntu-desktop subscribers won't get you all of the non-pae cpu users). The only fool-proof way of getting this data is to automatically submit it from users' computers, but that's a privacy issue, and still limits to internet users and those who do package upgrades regularly (assuming the submission method results from a package upgrade). I can offer you this though [1]: 21:35:54 so, as for data, with bdmurray's help, I downloaded 7271 x86 cpuinfos from bug reports on LP about a year ago. 336 of those were non-pae. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cpu-checker-dev/cpu-checker/trunk/files/head:/test/ 21:36:12 so that's just under 5% I think it's also not how many people are using non-pae cpus, but whether or not Lubuntu is expected to be able to run on non-pae cpus. For example, I would expect Lubuntu to run on the 400MHz FSB Pentium M CPUs [2] (only the 400MHz FSB models don't support PAE [3]); in fact, I'd even argue that those CPUs are part of the intended audience. And no matter how many users there are, based off of a QA perspective, if I say that Lubuntu is designed for a particular kind of machine, it better be able to run on that machine, plain and simple. Also, the non-pae kernel is still supported in Precise. All we'd have to do is change the default kernel on i386. -Steven [1]: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-12-21.01.moin.txt [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_M_microprocessors [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Jared Norris wrote: > On 6 January 2012 17:10, Steven wrote: > > Hi, I'm running Lubuntu on a non-PAE kernel too :) > > > > 1.4GHz Pentium M in a Dell Latitude D505 with 512MB RAM from 2004. It's > my > > main production machine and runs Lubuntu like a charm. > > > > I've been reading through the emails and irc logs, and it sounds like the > > kernel team is maintaining the non-pae kernel in Precise (but not > beyond), > > but just not setting it as the default -- any chance someone can convince > > them to make the non-pae kernel the default in just Lubuntu? Colin Watson > > mentioned this as a possibility in the Technical Board meeting [1]. > > > > -Steven > > > > [1]: > http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-12-21.01.moin.txt > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Yorvyk > > wrote: > > Steven, > > Running a PAE kernel and capable of running a PAE kernel are a couple > of different things. I'd honestly be surpised if that CPU wasn't > capable of running a PAE kernel. Are you able to run the command "grep > pae /proc/cpuinfo" to see if it is capable of running a PAE kernel? If > you get any output please paste it back if you're not sure what it > means. > > -- > Regards, > > Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych) > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris > That command doesn't give any output: $ grep pae /proc/cpuinfo $ It was also apparent when I ran a Lubuntu Precise daily-live CD for the first time the other day and got this: "This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU: pae Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU." -Steven ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin
Hi, I'm running Lubuntu on a non-PAE kernel too :) 1.4GHz Pentium M in a Dell Latitude D505 with 512MB RAM from 2004. It's my main production machine and runs Lubuntu like a charm. I've been reading through the emails and irc logs, and it sounds like the kernel team is maintaining the non-pae kernel in Precise (but not beyond), but just not setting it as the default -- any chance someone can convince them to make the non-pae kernel the default in just Lubuntu? Colin Watson mentioned this as a possibility in the Technical Board meeting [1]. -Steven [1]: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-12-21.01.moin.txt On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Yorvyk wrote: > On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:20:35 -0800 > Jonathan Marsden wrote: > > > On 11/20/2011 07:29 AM, Chow Loong Jin wrote: > > > > > On 20/11/2011 19:31, Yorvyk wrote: > > > > > > >> If a CPU can't support PAE it can't support more than 4GiB of RAM, > > >> so the PAE part of the kernel shoudn't come into play. > > > > > > > > > From what I understand, PAE has a different set of paging structures > > > compared to non-PAE. Does the kernel know to fall back onto non-PAE > > > mode if it cannot enable PAE on a CPU? > > > > > > Which way to do things is basically a compile time option for the > > kernel, as I understand it. So, if a PAE kernel is used, it can *only* > > be run on processors that support the additional PAE instructions. Even > > if a machine only has 128MB RAM, it you try to run a PAE kernel on it, > > and the CPU lacks the PAE instruction, it is not going to run. > > > > The real question is: are there really any CPUs in general purpose > > desktops or laptops, in any significant quantity at all, that Ubuntu > > 11.10 i386 kernels work on, which PAE kernels do not work on? > > > > Other than the early 400MHz Pentium-M, which are pretty rare, I don't > > think anyone has seen such a CPU yet. Via C3 and AMD Geode LX already > > cannot run current Ubuntu 11.10 default kernels anyway. > > > Having trawled the net for info on this, I have no problem with dropping > the non-PAE kernel as it appears to only effect a very,very, very small > number of users. Whether these are current or potential users is going to > be very hard to find out, unless they start jumping up-and-down screaming. > My one concern was the alleged overhead of the PAE kernel but, this > appears, from the various benchmarks I've seen, to be trivial and probably > unnoticeable in normal use. I have installed PAE kernels on a couple of > machines, one oneiric and one precise, and have not noticed any problems so > far. > I would imagine by the time 12.04 is no longer supported, 32 bit ubuntus > may well be limited to the ARM anyway. > > > > > -- > Yorvyk > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Is LXDM supported to work in a *buntu besides Lubuntu?
Hi all, I'm triaging an LXDM bug [1] where LXDM doesn't work as the display manager in Ubuntu (not Lubuntu). Is this even supported, or can I mark it as Invalid? -Steven [1]: www.launchpad.net/bugs/823621 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Alpha 3 testing
Lance, You'll see on iso.qa.ubuntu.com that the Lubuntu build you're testing is "Lubuntu Desktop i386 (20110801)" That means it's the daily-live from 08/01/2011. So you should use the images from: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20110801/ Tomorrow might bring "Lubuntu Desktop i386 (20110802)", which means the images would be in: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20110802/<http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20110801/> and so on. I have a feeling you might already know this and are just reporting a bug (in which case I don't mean to sound presumptuous), but I figured an answer to the question couldn't hurt. And other Lubuntu testers might not be as adept at the iso tracker and might like a little detail and explanation. :) -Steven On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 2:54 AM, Lance wrote: > Arrgh, just realized when I sent this to Julien I forgot to cc the list. > > Sorry, > > Lance > > --- On *Mon, 8/1/11, Lance * wrote: > > > From: Lance > Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Alpha 3 testing > To: "Julien Lavergne" > Date: Monday, August 1, 2011, 11:20 PM > > Hi Julien. I've just begun some Ubuntu Alpha3 iso-testing and I noticed > Lubuntu is now listed, yeah! > > But whether I use the links you provided or just go through the iso-tracker > when I click on the disc graphic I just get the following page saying "no > image found": > > > http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/6096 > > I do however see that the daily iso has been updated now: > > > http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/ > > Is that the correct image? Maybe a link just needs to be fixed? > > Thanks for all you do, > > Lance > > --- On *Mon, 8/1/11, Julien Lavergne * wrote: > > > From: Julien Lavergne > Subject: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Alpha 3 testing > To: "lubuntu-desktop" > Date: Monday, August 1, 2011, 6:00 PM > > > Hi, > > For Oneiric Alpha 3, there will be some changes for people who test the > ISOs. We are going to use http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ to track tests and > bugs on the ISOs :) > > You can find documentation on > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures > > Currently, there are 2 ISOs to test : > - Live i386 http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6096 > - Live amd64 http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6095 > Alternates will probably be too late for Alpha 3, but we may be able to > test them in the futur. > > For now, test cases are standard. If you have idea to extent them, fell > free to propose them, so we can discuss them on the list. > > There are already several bugs reported about the ISO. Be sure to check > them before reporting a new bug. Also, be sure to subscribe to them if > you want to track progress on them : > - Jockey crashes on start : http://pad.lv/819506 > - Missing icons in the menu : http://pad.lv/819525 > - No indicators on lxpanel : http://pad.lv/819528 > - Installer require 4.6 Gb of free space : http://pad.lv/819538 > - Gwibber install by default : http://pad.lv/819519 > - GTK3 applications doesn't have a theme : http://pad.lv/819529 > - Generic icon for network-manager : http://pad.lv/796147 > - Generic icon for jockey : http://pad.lv/819542 > > I also modified the page for testing on the wiki : > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing > > And remember, Alpha 3 is planned for Thursday, don't start testing on > Friday ;) > > Thanks in advance for all adventurous testers :) > > Regards, > Julien Lavergne > > > > > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Alpha 3 testing
FYI, the download link on the iso tracker has no images to download for the two Lubuntu builds (i386[1] and amd64[2]. When you click the CD with a green arrow icon, it brings you to [3] and [4] (respectively), when it should bring you to a page such as [5]. If you want to download the images, you have to go to the daily-live page [6]. Slow and steady wins the Official Ubuntu Derivative race, I guess :) -Steven [1]: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6096 [2]: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6095 [3]: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/6096 [4]: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/6095 [5]: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/6093 [6]: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/ On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: > Hi, > > For Oneiric Alpha 3, there will be some changes for people who test the > ISOs. We are going to use http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ to track tests and > bugs on the ISOs :) > > You can find documentation on > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures > > Currently, there are 2 ISOs to test : > - Live i386 http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6096 > - Live amd64 http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6095 > Alternates will probably be too late for Alpha 3, but we may be able to > test them in the futur. > > For now, test cases are standard. If you have idea to extent them, fell > free to propose them, so we can discuss them on the list. > > There are already several bugs reported about the ISO. Be sure to check > them before reporting a new bug. Also, be sure to subscribe to them if > you want to track progress on them : > - Jockey crashes on start : http://pad.lv/819506 > - Missing icons in the menu : http://pad.lv/819525 > - No indicators on lxpanel : http://pad.lv/819528 > - Installer require 4.6 Gb of free space : http://pad.lv/819538 > - Gwibber install by default : http://pad.lv/819519 > - GTK3 applications doesn't have a theme : http://pad.lv/819529 > - Generic icon for network-manager : http://pad.lv/796147 > - Generic icon for jockey : http://pad.lv/819542 > > I also modified the page for testing on the wiki : > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing > > And remember, Alpha 3 is planned for Thursday, don't start testing on > Friday ;) > > Thanks in advance for all adventurous testers :) > > Regards, > Julien Lavergne > > > > > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Bad news for old Intel video
i8xx is actually in a pretty good state right now. In Ubuntu since Maverick, the X server is running the fbdev driver, and all (I think) of the stability problems are fixed, but at a noticeable performance degradation. Upstream, a fix has been released since the 2.6.38-rc7 kernel which seems to make the -intel driver stable for many people, at least with i855 and later (i835 and i845 are still a little funky, but I've heard that's because the cards themselves are just strangely designed). It's ironic actually -- Ubuntu dropped support for i8xx at the exact time that upstream started making real progress with the bugs in those cards. In short, I don't see a reason why this should actually affect users of these cards. The only real potential problem I see is when Wayland starts being added. -Steven On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Yorvyk wrote: > > This passed me by, but is not good news for the sort of machines we are > targeting. > > "In natty, we stopped Ubuntu development support for the 8xx chipset; these > may still work OK with the -intel driver but we no longer field bug reports > or backport fixes for them. This policy will continue in oneiric, but we'll > re-evaluate for oneiric+1. Meanwhile, please work with upstream directly for > 8xx problems." > > -- > Steve Cook (Yorvyk) > > http://lubuntu.net > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu 11.04 Beta 1: "Check disc for errors" returns 115 errors in ./isolinux/*
Hi all, I downloaded Lubuntu 11.04 Beta 1 a week or so ago, and ran "Check disc for errors" from the liveCD, and it reported 115 errors in the ./isolinux/* directly, all of which were "No such file or directory" errors (including isolinux.bin). Is this expected behavior? I ran it on a USB drive using usb-creator, and even downloaded a new iso from the torrent and every time the behavior was the same. -Steven ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
