Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
Le Sunday 15 May 2011 à 18:23 -0700, Jonathan Marsden a écrit : If I understand you correctly, Lubuntu 11.04 default install would (just!) fit on a 2GB (binary GB) disk. That's pretty lightweight; can you name any common desktop or laptop i386 PC architecture machines made in the the last ten years for general end user use (i.e. not embedded designs) that have less than 2GB of disk storage? Well there is the space to install the system, and the space to use it :) You need to have a btt of space free to be confortable to use the system. However, having a system that could be installed on 3 Gb, I pretty happy with the result. Like Jonathan said, if you can determine use cases when it's not enough, we can try to work on them. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
Le Monday 16 May 2011 à 14:30 +0200, UndiFineD a écrit : Well, we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs/SoD2011 that could mean we create a list of pages to be created and hopefully along with current existing docs. Why not. Do we have already a list of pages that need updates, or work, or creations ... ? Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
Hiyas Julien and Kiempe, There are several links on the community section of pages that still link back to the 'old' wiki. Once the GetLubuntu page and it's associated pages are finished, I'll make a start. But if the kind people from SoD want to dive in and check that I've not missed any links, it would be appreciated. It's not the most exciting work in the world, copying and pasting pages but is pretty essential for when we depreciate the 'old' Documents and Help area. As we get them checked, diverts can be put on the 'old' pages for those who have the 'old' pages bookmarked as per Julien's request. Regards, Phill. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Le Monday 16 May 2011 à 14:30 +0200, UndiFineD a écrit : Well, we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs/SoD2011 that could mean we create a list of pages to be created and hopefully along with current existing docs. Why not. Do we have already a list of pages that need updates, or work, or creations ... ? Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
If I understand you correctly, Lubuntu 11.04 default install would (just!) fit on a 2GB (binary GB) disk. Correct. *And* the resulting install will likely be unusable due to the lack of free space. That's pretty lightweight; can you name any common desktop or laptop i386 PC architecture machines made in the the last ten years for general end user use (i.e. not embedded designs) that have less than 2GB of disk storage? I'm not sure is it common or not, but many early netbooks have ridiculously small drives. Some Asus EEE models have 2GB SSD. Hewlett Packard 6720t features just 1 GB SSD (I'm shocked!!!) On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:23 AM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fmwrote: Earlier, I wrote: I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet. to On 05/15/2011 12:44 AM, Mikhail Maksimov wrote: No it can not. Tests done on alpha3 show that the system requires at least 2000 MB (decimal M) just to install with almost no free space left. Too bad Lubuntu is no longer lightweight in terms of disk footprint. Thanks for taking the time to do the testing :) If I understand you correctly, Lubuntu 11.04 default install would (just!) fit on a 2GB (binary GB) disk. That's pretty lightweight; can you name any common desktop or laptop i386 PC architecture machines made in the the last ten years for general end user use (i.e. not embedded designs) that have less than 2GB of disk storage? Setting the limit down from 5.3GB to 2.7GB seems to have helped everyone I know of who has come across this issue (most seem to have 3GB or 4GB disk space available). Is there really a sizeable community of Lubuntu users with total disk space between 1.8GB and 2.0GB that we need to try to help out? If so, who are they -- can they please identify themselves? Thanks, Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
Hi, list. *I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet.* No it can not. Tests done on alpha3 show that the system requires at least 2000 MB (decimal M) just to install with almost no free space left. Too bad Lubuntu is no longer lightweight in terms of disk footprint. Regards, Mikhail PS I know that the original letter is two weeks old :) On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fmwrote: My workaround works! Replying to myself: On 05/01/2011 12:29 AM, Jonathan Marsden wrote: There is a file within the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO called casper/filesystem.size but it seems to be unchanged since 2010-09-06 and I don't yet know what if anything actually uses it :) Based on Julien's very handy pointer to the commit that broke this for us, I just edited the file casper/filesystem.size in the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO image to say 137000 (a round-ish number about half the value that was previously in the file, plus 50MB as a safety margin!) and then updated the md5sum.txt file to reflect that edit, and created myself a modified ISO image from the result. That's a pretty trivial change, but, unlike the official 11.04 image, it installs and runs fine in a 3GB virtual disk, at least in my initial testing here (under VirtualBox 4.0.6). So, we seem to have a code-free workaround :) I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet. I can make this hacked ISO available for download, but it is a bit 'dubious' at this point from a support point of view, since it does not 'say' anywhere in its menus etc. that I modified it! I need it to refer to itself as 11.04.jm1 or something, so it is clearly not the official Lubuntu 11.04 version, if there is going to be much use of it. If anyone has an urgent need for this ISO image, let me know. It is now 1am here, and I have to go to work tomorrow (today!!) so I don't have time to create the .jm1 identified image right now... I need some sleep :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
er... someone blamed documentation of some sort... ah, here it is: *One area where Lubuntu has gained weight is the help documentation for Gnumeric and Sylpheed, as well as the Gnome language packs.* quoted from the lubuntu-desktop list archive, March, 20, 2011. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:39 PM, PCMan pcman...@gmail.com wrote: So who is eating the spaces? Many some disk-analyzing tools are needed here. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Mikhail Maksimov mcwil...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, list. I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet. No it can not. Tests done on alpha3 show that the system requires at least 2000 MB (decimal M) just to install with almost no free space left. Too bad Lubuntu is no longer lightweight in terms of disk footprint. Regards, Mikhail PS I know that the original letter is two weeks old :) On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: My workaround works! Replying to myself: On 05/01/2011 12:29 AM, Jonathan Marsden wrote: There is a file within the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO called casper/filesystem.size but it seems to be unchanged since 2010-09-06 and I don't yet know what if anything actually uses it :) Based on Julien's very handy pointer to the commit that broke this for us, I just edited the file casper/filesystem.size in the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO image to say 137000 (a round-ish number about half the value that was previously in the file, plus 50MB as a safety margin!) and then updated the md5sum.txt file to reflect that edit, and created myself a modified ISO image from the result. That's a pretty trivial change, but, unlike the official 11.04 image, it installs and runs fine in a 3GB virtual disk, at least in my initial testing here (under VirtualBox 4.0.6). So, we seem to have a code-free workaround :) I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet. I can make this hacked ISO available for download, but it is a bit 'dubious' at this point from a support point of view, since it does not 'say' anywhere in its menus etc. that I modified it! I need it to refer to itself as 11.04.jm1 or something, so it is clearly not the official Lubuntu 11.04 version, if there is going to be much use of it. If anyone has an urgent need for this ISO image, let me know. It is now 1am here, and I have to go to work tomorrow (today!!) so I don't have time to create the .jm1 identified image right now... I need some sleep :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
As discussed at uds, put only fital documentation on disc that gets people online so they can read it on help.ubuntu.com. 2011/5/15 Mikhail Maksimov mcwil...@gmail.com: er... someone blamed documentation of some sort... ah, here it is: One area where Lubuntu has gained weight is the help documentation for Gnumeric and Sylpheed, as well as the Gnome language packs. quoted from the lubuntu-desktop list archive, March, 20, 2011. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:39 PM, PCMan pcman...@gmail.com wrote: So who is eating the spaces? Many some disk-analyzing tools are needed here. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Mikhail Maksimov mcwil...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, list. I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet. No it can not. Tests done on alpha3 show that the system requires at least 2000 MB (decimal M) just to install with almost no free space left. Too bad Lubuntu is no longer lightweight in terms of disk footprint. Regards, Mikhail PS I know that the original letter is two weeks old :) On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: My workaround works! Replying to myself: On 05/01/2011 12:29 AM, Jonathan Marsden wrote: There is a file within the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO called casper/filesystem.size but it seems to be unchanged since 2010-09-06 and I don't yet know what if anything actually uses it :) Based on Julien's very handy pointer to the commit that broke this for us, I just edited the file casper/filesystem.size in the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO image to say 137000 (a round-ish number about half the value that was previously in the file, plus 50MB as a safety margin!) and then updated the md5sum.txt file to reflect that edit, and created myself a modified ISO image from the result. That's a pretty trivial change, but, unlike the official 11.04 image, it installs and runs fine in a 3GB virtual disk, at least in my initial testing here (under VirtualBox 4.0.6). So, we seem to have a code-free workaround :) I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet. I can make this hacked ISO available for download, but it is a bit 'dubious' at this point from a support point of view, since it does not 'say' anywhere in its menus etc. that I modified it! I need it to refer to itself as 11.04.jm1 or something, so it is clearly not the official Lubuntu 11.04 version, if there is going to be much use of it. If anyone has an urgent need for this ISO image, let me know. It is now 1am here, and I have to go to work tomorrow (today!!) so I don't have time to create the .jm1 identified image right now... I need some sleep :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Keimpe de Jong (UndiFineD) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
On 05/15/2011 11:32 AM, UndiFineD wrote: As discussed at uds, put only fital documentation on disc that gets people online so they can read it on help.ubuntu.com. Is all the Sylpheed and Gnumeric help documentation already on help.ubuntu.com? Where? Does the Help menu item in these programs check help,ubuntu.com for that documentation? That was not the behaviour I saw when I tested this earlier (and fixed LP bugs by adding these packages). There will always be some trade-off between keep it lean and user-friendly. I think that where to draw that boundary is not as clear as your comment suggests. I hope the UDS discussion on this was a little more nuanced than you are suggesting :) If you are willing to patch Sylpheed and Gnumeric packages to get their docs online from help.ubuntu.com when the help is not installed locally, and add to add all that documentation to the wiki, *and* you will keep it up to date there for the long term, *then* we might be in a position to remove the documentation packages from the CD. Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
Earlier, I wrote: I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet. On 05/15/2011 12:44 AM, Mikhail Maksimov wrote: No it can not. Tests done on alpha3 show that the system requires at least 2000 MB (decimal M) just to install with almost no free space left. Too bad Lubuntu is no longer lightweight in terms of disk footprint. Thanks for taking the time to do the testing :) If I understand you correctly, Lubuntu 11.04 default install would (just!) fit on a 2GB (binary GB) disk. That's pretty lightweight; can you name any common desktop or laptop i386 PC architecture machines made in the the last ten years for general end user use (i.e. not embedded designs) that have less than 2GB of disk storage? Setting the limit down from 5.3GB to 2.7GB seems to have helped everyone I know of who has come across this issue (most seem to have 3GB or 4GB disk space available). Is there really a sizeable community of Lubuntu users with total disk space between 1.8GB and 2.0GB that we need to try to help out? If so, who are they -- can they please identify themselves? Thanks, Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
Just some thoughts. Will it be better to run df periodially at a several second interval during installation to get a more accurate number? So we can know the disk usage every second during the installation process. The maximum of the values collected plus a safety margin is the minimal disk space required for installation. After installation, we run df again to see how much disk space is used. Then, we reserved some space, maybe 256mb for swap and some space for other apps, maybe 512 MB. This value is the disk space suggested. We need more accurate number by measurement rather than by assumption. Is anyone willing to do this? On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Mon, 2 May 2011, Chris cyber.dr...@gmail.com wrote: We would need to find a more permanent I think, but until then your ISO would be a great alternative for people with small discs. OK, my tweaked Lubuntu ISO that installs to smaller disks than the official one is now available for download at ftp://ftp.jmarsden.org/pub/lubuntu-11.04.jm1.iso It's md5sum is available as ftp://ftp.jmarsden.org/pub/lubuntu-11.04.jm1.iso.md5 NOTE: Even though the change I made was very small, this is an unofficial test ISO. If it somehow breaks your PC, eats your cat, elopes with your girlfriend, or otherwise misbehaves, neither I nor Ubuntu will accept any liability for that :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
Le Tuesday 03 May 2011 à 15:59 +0800, PCMan a écrit : Just some thoughts. Will it be better to run df periodially at a several second interval during installation to get a more accurate number? So we can know the disk usage every second during the installation process. The maximum of the values collected plus a safety margin is the minimal disk space required for installation. After installation, we run df again to see how much disk space is used. Then, we reserved some space, maybe 256mb for swap and some space for other apps, maybe 512 MB. This value is the disk space suggested. We need more accurate number by measurement rather than by assumption. Is anyone willing to do this? I'm sure the measurement is already implemented in Ubuntu ISO build system. The problem is that Ubiquity doesn't use it properly :( And we are the only ones who care about installation on a 4Gb hard drive :) Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
My workaround works! Replying to myself: On 05/01/2011 12:29 AM, Jonathan Marsden wrote: There is a file within the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO called casper/filesystem.size but it seems to be unchanged since 2010-09-06 and I don't yet know what if anything actually uses it :) Based on Julien's very handy pointer to the commit that broke this for us, I just edited the file casper/filesystem.size in the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO image to say 137000 (a round-ish number about half the value that was previously in the file, plus 50MB as a safety margin!) and then updated the md5sum.txt file to reflect that edit, and created myself a modified ISO image from the result. That's a pretty trivial change, but, unlike the official 11.04 image, it installs and runs fine in a 3GB virtual disk, at least in my initial testing here (under VirtualBox 4.0.6). So, we seem to have a code-free workaround :) I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet. I can make this hacked ISO available for download, but it is a bit 'dubious' at this point from a support point of view, since it does not 'say' anywhere in its menus etc. that I modified it! I need it to refer to itself as 11.04.jm1 or something, so it is clearly not the official Lubuntu 11.04 version, if there is going to be much use of it. If anyone has an urgent need for this ISO image, let me know. It is now 1am here, and I have to go to work tomorrow (today!!) so I don't have time to create the .jm1 identified image right now... I need some sleep :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
On 2 May 2011 04:30, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: Based on Julien's very handy pointer to the commit that broke this for us, I just edited the file casper/filesystem.size in the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO image to say 137000 (a round-ish number about half the value that was previously in the file, plus 50MB as a safety margin!) and then updated the md5sum.txt file to reflect that edit, and created myself a modified ISO image from the result. That's a pretty trivial change, but, unlike the official 11.04 image, it installs and runs fine in a 3GB virtual disk, at least in my initial testing here (under VirtualBox 4.0.6). So, we seem to have a code-free workaround :) I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have not tested that yet. Be careful about how low you set the number. It can make it difficult to install any additional software and likely more worrying, it can be impossible to upgrade if there is not space to download and unpack the updates. Jeremy Bicha ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
2011/5/2 Jeremy Bicha jer...@bicha.net Be careful about how low you set the number. It can make it difficult to install any additional software and likely more worrying, it can be impossible to upgrade if there is not space to download and unpack the updates. I think that the important thing for an old computer (i don't think that this problem could exist on new hardware) is to be able tu run some office apps, surf the internet and be able to be a stable post; this said, i don't think that for that would be required a Lubuntu-very-hard apps modification (the selection of apps for this is perfect). In my experience i leave in my laptop a 6gb partition for the system and it runs just fine (with 4gb free, sort of). But i have very different apps for lubuntu, and i'm always erasing old kernels and cleaning app data for install (just because i don't like junk being around). Conclude yourselves. Ps: is there a way to launch periodiquelly sudo apt-get clean on lubuntu? also why it keep all the kernels? that's tones of hard disk space for a little hard drive... maybe lubuntu should have a way to do a little cleaning :) Regards, -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)
On Mon, 2 May 2011, Chris cyber.dr...@gmail.com wrote: We would need to find a more permanent I think, but until then your ISO would be a great alternative for people with small discs. OK, my tweaked Lubuntu ISO that installs to smaller disks than the official one is now available for download at ftp://ftp.jmarsden.org/pub/lubuntu-11.04.jm1.iso It's md5sum is available as ftp://ftp.jmarsden.org/pub/lubuntu-11.04.jm1.iso.md5 NOTE: Even though the change I made was very small, this is an unofficial test ISO. If it somehow breaks your PC, eats your cat, elopes with your girlfriend, or otherwise misbehaves, neither I nor Ubuntu will accept any liability for that :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
