Re: Roadmap for 14.04
2013/11/23 David Yentzen dbyent...@gmail.com: Ibere, Thank you for your response. I did not know this about Julien, however, I suspected something as such. The community does seem to be self-regulating for the most part but perhaps some type of consensus decision making style Release Manager may be of benefit. No, I have not, yet, read Jono Bacon's book-its on my list. I have read Eric Raymond's CatB and Butler Shaffer's Boundaries of Order( a study of the nature of human organizations and institutions). But, my original query still goes unanswered( and perhaps there is no answer)? Best Regards, David David, Thank your for the reading tips. Adding to my to-read list. :) If you like reading, I also suggest the following paper: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/csoc/papers/virtcomm/Virtcomm.htm Regarding Lubuntu governance: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-May/001516.html You can read more archives by tweaking the URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-May/ The whole archives: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/ Meeting archives: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/ Regarding your question... well, I believe Nio has just emphasized the state of the art: we're kind of on our own... and we're doing our best! So I thank you for your support and we're counting on you:) Best regards, Iberê -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
@Nio Indeed, then let us allow the devs to concentrate all their efforts on what they do best and allow me to join you and others in shaping the community into a thriving, healthy, and enjoyable environment. Thanks for your reply. @Ibere Yes, we are on our own..I see this as an advantage and opportunity. Thanks for the links to the lists: I only needed to read a small part. So, folks lets allow Julien and the other devs do what they do and lets get busy handling and dealing with the non-technical aspects of out community. Division of labor! Best Regards, David On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Iberê Fernandes ibere.fernan...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/11/23 David Yentzen dbyent...@gmail.com: Ibere, Thank you for your response. I did not know this about Julien, however, I suspected something as such. The community does seem to be self-regulating for the most part but perhaps some type of consensus decision making style Release Manager may be of benefit. No, I have not, yet, read Jono Bacon's book-its on my list. I have read Eric Raymond's CatB and Butler Shaffer's Boundaries of Order( a study of the nature of human organizations and institutions). But, my original query still goes unanswered( and perhaps there is no answer)? Best Regards, David David, Thank your for the reading tips. Adding to my to-read list. :) If you like reading, I also suggest the following paper: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/csoc/papers/virtcomm/Virtcomm.htm Regarding Lubuntu governance: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-May/001516.html You can read more archives by tweaking the URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-May/ The whole archives: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/ Meeting archives: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/ Regarding your question... well, I believe Nio has just emphasized the state of the art: we're kind of on our own... and we're doing our best! So I thank you for your support and we're counting on you:) Best regards, Iberê -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
Hi Julien Thanks for your detailed email. I understand there is not enough infrastructure currently to support training, mentoring, and performing many changes prior to 14.04 roll out. I am mostly concerned with the future development of our community. Since I am not only new to Lubuntu( and Linux) but also have no computer background( all biological sciences and economics here), I rely on your opinion and input. Are there any steps, you know of, that we as a community can take now to attract and promote the technical human power we need for a growing future? Sincerely, David Yentzen On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Dale Visser dale.vis...@gmail.com wrote: I've been quite busy with family stuff and work today, but thanks for the replies. I'll take a look over at Lubuntu Software Center, and see if there are any issues I could see myself tackling. I've never used Bazaar or the Launchpad issue trackers, so there will be some learning curve involved. Best regards, Dale Sent from my Windows Phone -- From: Jackson Doak nosk...@ubuntu.com Sent: 11/19/2013 2:01 PM To: Aere Greenway a...@dvorak-keyboards.com Cc: lubuntu user list lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Roadmap for 14.04 dale: I'm not sure what lubuntu specific stuff is java, maybe just find some general bugs. As mentioned above, the lubuntu software centre is python, so any bugfixes for that would be great On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Aere Greenway a...@dvorak-keyboards.comwrote: On 11/19/2013 03:08 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote: 2013/11/18 Iberê Fernandes ibere.fernan...@gmail.com Regarding: Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). I agree it'll be a waste of time if we may be moving to LXQt on 14.10 cycle. Hence, does 14.04 has to remain LTS yet? I mean, should we drop the LTS idea for 14.04 once: - LXDE is dying; - we're missing devs and LTS would demand support together with the non-LTS releases. - LXQt seems to be not ready for 14.04 I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Regards, Julien Lavergne Julien: This approach makes good sense to me. I agree, for what it's worth. -- Sincerely, Aere -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
Ibere, Thank you for your response. I did not know this about Julien, however, I suspected something as such. The community does seem to be self-regulating for the most part but perhaps some type of consensus decision making style Release Manager may be of benefit. No, I have not, yet, read Jono Bacon's book-its on my list. I have read Eric Raymond's CatB and Butler Shaffer's Boundaries of Order( a study of the nature of human organizations and institutions). But, my original query still goes unanswered( and perhaps there is no answer)? Best Regards, David On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Iberê Fernandes ibere.fernan...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/11/22 David Yentzen dbyent...@gmail.com: Hi Julien Thanks for your detailed email. I understand there is not enough infrastructure currently to support training, mentoring, and performing many changes prior to 14.04 roll out. I am mostly concerned with the future development of our community. Since I am not only new to Lubuntu( and Linux) but also have no computer background( all biological sciences and economics here), I rely on your opinion and input. Are there any steps, you know of, that we as a community can take now to attract and promote the technical human power we need for a growing future? Sincerely, David Yentzen On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Dale Visser dale.vis...@gmail.com wrote: I've been quite busy with family stuff and work today, but thanks for the replies. I'll take a look over at Lubuntu Software Center, and see if there are any issues I could see myself tackling. I've never used Bazaar or the Launchpad issue trackers, so there will be some learning curve involved. Best regards, Dale Sent from my Windows Phone From: Jackson Doak Sent: 11/19/2013 2:01 PM To: Aere Greenway Cc: lubuntu user list Subject: Re: Roadmap for 14.04 dale: I'm not sure what lubuntu specific stuff is java, maybe just find some general bugs. As mentioned above, the lubuntu software centre is python, so any bugfixes for that would be great On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Aere Greenway a...@dvorak-keyboards.com wrote: On 11/19/2013 03:08 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote: 2013/11/18 Iberê Fernandes ibere.fernan...@gmail.com Regarding: Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). I agree it'll be a waste of time if we may be moving to LXQt on 14.10 cycle. Hence, does 14.04 has to remain LTS yet? I mean, should we drop the LTS idea for 14.04 once: - LXDE is dying; - we're missing devs and LTS would demand support together with the non-LTS releases. - LXQt seems to be not ready for 14.04 I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Regards, Julien Lavergne Julien: This approach makes good sense to me. I agree, for what it's worth. -- Sincerely, Aere -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users David, Julien is not dealing with governance anymore since sometime in 2012... that's why it'd be nice to have a Release Manager to do (or sort of do) the governance thing. So Julien is focused on development. Have you ever read The Art of Community, by Jono Bacon (Ubuntu Community Manager)? The 2nd edition is availalbe (free) at http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/ -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ibere-Fernandes -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
On 2013-11-23 04:02, David Yentzen wrote: Ibere, Thank you for your response. I did not know this about Julien, however, I suspected something as such. The community does seem to be self-regulating for the most part but perhaps some type of consensus decision making style Release Manager may be of benefit. No, I have not, yet, read Jono Bacon's book-its on my list. I have read Eric Raymond's CatB and Butler Shaffer's Boundaries of Order( a study of the nature of human organizations and institutions). But, my original query still goes unanswered( and perhaps there is no answer)? Best Regards, David Hi David, Do you mean this one: I understand there is not enough infrastructure currently to support training, mentoring, and performing many changes prior to 14.04 roll out. I am mostly concerned with the future development of our community. Since I am not only new to Lubuntu( and Linux) but also have no computer background( all biological sciences and economics here), I rely on your opinion and input. Are there any steps, you know of, that we as a community can take now to attract and promote the technical human power we need for a growing future? It seems to me, that we have to create those steps, if we want Lubuntu to thrive ;-) Best regards Nio -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
2013/11/18 Nio Wiklund nio.wikl...@gmail.com On 2013-11-18 12:54, Julien Lavergne wrote: Before talking about the future of Lubuntu, you have to know and realize the followings facts : - My availability will not improve in the future. That means I will focus on fixing stuff, improving lxsession stuff, try to do some documentation, and prepare the future. - We have to consider that no one will magically appear to improve the code of Lubuntu. It's the case since many months, and I don't think it will magically change for the next 6 months. We also don't have the infrastructure (documentation, clean process, availability of mentors ...) to correctly train new people on the devs team, so even if new young and enthusiastic people arrive, they can't really help us if they need training, guidance ...We may have some outside help on specific topics or bugs, but it will not change deeply Lubuntu as we know it. If eventually someone comes with actual work (mean, actual working code), we can still consider it if it's well tested. I think we *must* find a way to engage new people to develop Lubuntu, even if it would mean completely new ways of doing it. This is particularly important since your availability will not improve in the future. Sure, but currently, I don't know any magic way to do it with our current situation. - LXDE is dying. Well, except pcmanfm, all components are frozen and will probably not going to see any improvements in the next 6 months. Expect only bug fixes and translations updates. - LXQt (the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE, using Qt instead of GTK) is slowly taking the place of the LXDE GTK. All work are done on this branch. Considering this, and the result of the previous release, we have to admit that we need to focus on fixing bugs for 14.04. We can't introduce new functionalities and new stuff, unless it fixes bugs, or if someone from outside the Lubuntu dev team is actively working on it. In the short-term, that means : Does this mean that you don't think it is worth the effort to supply LTS for 14.04? In that case, what should we tell the users with old hardware, who do not want to hop between versions every 6 months: - use Xubuntu until April 2015 - use LXLE - use Precise Gnome Classic Tweak - use Bodhi Linux or something else? I still think we can do an LTS. If we don't, we have to maintain a GTK version for next releases, or switch to a Qt version with a risk of breakage and instability. Doing an LTS, even if it's not perfectly stable and maintained, will give us the time we need. Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
2013/11/18 Iberê Fernandes ibere.fernan...@gmail.com Regarding: Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). I agree it'll be a waste of time if we may be moving to LXQt on 14.10 cycle. Hence, does 14.04 has to remain LTS yet? I mean, should we drop the LTS idea for 14.04 once: - LXDE is dying; - we're missing devs and LTS would demand support together with the non-LTS releases. - LXQt seems to be not ready for 14.04 I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/19/2013 12:08 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Yeap, my thoughts exactly. +1 to above. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSizzBAAoJENwP5BekYdOjwiwH/1bkI5Gwoa8S7lR3hnP10aRm XA7xaX7tWqXSKXU20BCZZ8chOZrz2H6Qkbeh9QBx4xGGFgzXeIewVA/m70OxEoda vh4zePKmoBOtlr/Vqdy4SyZZwQW7Ouv9uJW8esF2tTbt3hc8bv9eCg9H1NKWMMA6 nwbg8Opop/gLSjpQjYjEpmyaIA6+qoIdTByWDp0kt+VeMAvQA/g6l9JRgJ/4t+47 Jo31BmVbYXhB6wu06ZVWnfAAYVvCwPazmrK/ry5f/nkgk2KBZlohps8wNh1kEMC4 2DiFgAa5HTsblVWmGHL52DF7Q2y8EUrGigLVgJAbrrFJ/tClkNJHo6NNDr4gnvI= =H2u3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
On 2013-11-19 11:26, NikTh wrote: On 11/19/2013 12:08 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Yeap, my thoughts exactly. +1 to above. +1 [Nio] -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
2013/11/19 Nio Wiklund nio.wikl...@gmail.com Can you think of some tasks that can be clearly defined and separated from the whole system? And specify what skill or knowledge that is necessary (for example which tools or computer languages that the developer needs for that task). Not really. The easiest way is to look at all the bugtrackers, investigate the bugs, confirm or not, and eventually propose patches for them. You can look at : http://sourceforge.net/projects/lxde/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/pcmanfm/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-packaging/+packagebugs You probably want to read this : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ReportingBugs and have a look at this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Developers . Finally, for the knowledge, well, it depends on the part you are working on. LXDE is mostly C + GTK, some part of Lubuntu are python (LSC for example). Again, look at the bugtrackers (if you can clean them, that would help too :-)) Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
RE: Roadmap for 14.04
I might be willing to do some development, but I have no idea if I have the appropriate skill set. I am experienced with Java, and have some experience with Python and Jython. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Nio Wiklund Sent: 11/19/2013 5:30 AM To: NikTh; lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Roadmap for 14.04 On 2013-11-19 11:26, NikTh wrote: On 11/19/2013 12:08 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Yeap, my thoughts exactly. +1 to above. +1 [Nio] -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
1 version to maintain, 1 to develop +1 2013/11/19 Dale Visser dale.vis...@gmail.com I might be willing to do some development, but I have no idea if I have the appropriate skill set. I am experienced with Java, and have some experience with Python and Jython. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Nio Wiklund Sent: 11/19/2013 5:30 AM To: NikTh; lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Roadmap for 14.04 On 2013-11-19 11:26, NikTh wrote: On 11/19/2013 12:08 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Yeap, my thoughts exactly. +1 to above. +1 [Nio] -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
On 11/19/2013 03:08 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote: 2013/11/18 Iberê Fernandes ibere.fernan...@gmail.com mailto:ibere.fernan...@gmail.com Regarding: Since the next release is a all-you-can-fix roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). I agree it'll be a waste of time if we may be moving to LXQt on 14.10 cycle. Hence, does 14.04 has to remain LTS yet? I mean, should we drop the LTS idea for 14.04 once: - LXDE is dying; - we're missing devs and LTS would demand support together with the non-LTS releases. - LXQt seems to be not ready for 14.04 I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Regards, Julien Lavergne Julien: This approach makes good sense to me. I agree, for what it's worth. -- Sincerely, Aere -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
dale: I'm not sure what lubuntu specific stuff is java, maybe just find some general bugs. As mentioned above, the lubuntu software centre is python, so any bugfixes for that would be great On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Aere Greenway a...@dvorak-keyboards.comwrote: On 11/19/2013 03:08 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote: 2013/11/18 Iberê Fernandes ibere.fernan...@gmail.com Regarding: Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). I agree it'll be a waste of time if we may be moving to LXQt on 14.10 cycle. Hence, does 14.04 has to remain LTS yet? I mean, should we drop the LTS idea for 14.04 once: - LXDE is dying; - we're missing devs and LTS would demand support together with the non-LTS releases. - LXQt seems to be not ready for 14.04 I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Regards, Julien Lavergne Julien: This approach makes good sense to me. I agree, for what it's worth. -- Sincerely, Aere -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
RE: Roadmap for 14.04
I've been quite busy with family stuff and work today, but thanks for the replies. I'll take a look over at Lubuntu Software Center, and see if there are any issues I could see myself tackling. I've never used Bazaar or the Launchpad issue trackers, so there will be some learning curve involved. Best regards, Dale Sent from my Windows Phone -- From: Jackson Doak nosk...@ubuntu.com Sent: 11/19/2013 2:01 PM To: Aere Greenway a...@dvorak-keyboards.com Cc: lubuntu user list lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Roadmap for 14.04 dale: I'm not sure what lubuntu specific stuff is java, maybe just find some general bugs. As mentioned above, the lubuntu software centre is python, so any bugfixes for that would be great On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Aere Greenway a...@dvorak-keyboards.comwrote: On 11/19/2013 03:08 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote: 2013/11/18 Iberê Fernandes ibere.fernan...@gmail.com Regarding: Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). I agree it'll be a waste of time if we may be moving to LXQt on 14.10 cycle. Hence, does 14.04 has to remain LTS yet? I mean, should we drop the LTS idea for 14.04 once: - LXDE is dying; - we're missing devs and LTS would demand support together with the non-LTS releases. - LXQt seems to be not ready for 14.04 I'm not sure it will be quite ready for 14.10 either (we have to change all the GTK applications to Qt version, it's quite a lot of work to test the integration of all of them). But with a 14.04 LTS, we can release a not-so-stable-and-finished 14.10 Qt version, because we still can advise people to keep 14.04. The goal also, is to focus on maintaining the LTS version, and development the Qt version until it's stable enough to completely switch to it. That should make the maintenance possible (1 version to maintain, 1 to develop). Regards, Julien Lavergne Julien: This approach makes good sense to me. I agree, for what it's worth. -- Sincerely, Aere -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Roadmap for 14.04
Before talking about the future of Lubuntu, you have to know and realize the followings facts : - My availability will not improve in the future. That means I will focus on fixing stuff, improving lxsession stuff, try to do some documentation, and prepare the future. - We have to consider that no one will magically appear to improve the code of Lubuntu. It's the case since many months, and I don't think it will magically change for the next 6 months. We also don't have the infrastructure (documentation, clean process, availability of mentors ...) to correctly train new people on the devs team, so even if new young and enthusiastic people arrive, they can't really help us if they need training, guidance ...We may have some outside help on specific topics or bugs, but it will not change deeply Lubuntu as we know it. If eventually someone comes with actual work (mean, actual working code), we can still consider it if it's well tested. - LXDE is dying. Well, except pcmanfm, all components are frozen and will probably not going to see any improvements in the next 6 months. Expect only bug fixes and translations updates. - LXQt (the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE, using Qt instead of GTK) is slowly taking the place of the LXDE GTK. All work are done on this branch. Considering this, and the result of the previous release, we have to admit that we need to focus on fixing bugs for 14.04. We can't introduce new functionalities and new stuff, unless it fixes bugs, or if someone from outside the Lubuntu dev team is actively working on it. In the short-term, that means : - The only LXDE components which will be eventually upgraded will be pcmanfm / libfm. The others will be upgraded, but currently there are only bug fixes / translation updates releases. - Adding light-locker for locking screen, it's actively developed, use (or will be used) by Xubuntu, it's in the philosophy of Lubuntu (GTK apps without any depends on other environment), it's prettier than xscreensaver, more integrated with lightdm, and it will hopefully fix the locking problems we have. - No others changes in default applications. We removed the more problematics ones, and a change will cause more testing, more integration work … Generaly, and by default, we are frozen in term of functionalities. The goal is double : - Stabilize this 14.04 as much as we can, so it can be the release reference. - Prepare an eventual switch to Qt for 14.10, mostly by preparing the testing environment for people, and make possible a smooth upgrade from the GTK version. I'll go through the blueprints open for discussions, but I'll apply strictly the “rules” I made above. Don't be surprised … Usually, there is a blueprint which summarize the workitems for the release (see this for example https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-lubuntu-work-items). Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
Hi Julien, I'm happy to see your mails as well as your effort to fix the lock of 13.10 :-) [See inline comments and suggestions] Best regard Nio On 2013-11-18 12:54, Julien Lavergne wrote: Before talking about the future of Lubuntu, you have to know and realize the followings facts : - My availability will not improve in the future. That means I will focus on fixing stuff, improving lxsession stuff, try to do some documentation, and prepare the future. - We have to consider that no one will magically appear to improve the code of Lubuntu. It's the case since many months, and I don't think it will magically change for the next 6 months. We also don't have the infrastructure (documentation, clean process, availability of mentors ...) to correctly train new people on the devs team, so even if new young and enthusiastic people arrive, they can't really help us if they need training, guidance ...We may have some outside help on specific topics or bugs, but it will not change deeply Lubuntu as we know it. If eventually someone comes with actual work (mean, actual working code), we can still consider it if it's well tested. I think we *must* find a way to engage new people to develop Lubuntu, even if it would mean completely new ways of doing it. This is particularly important since your availability will not improve in the future. - LXDE is dying. Well, except pcmanfm, all components are frozen and will probably not going to see any improvements in the next 6 months. Expect only bug fixes and translations updates. - LXQt (the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE, using Qt instead of GTK) is slowly taking the place of the LXDE GTK. All work are done on this branch. Considering this, and the result of the previous release, we have to admit that we need to focus on fixing bugs for 14.04. We can't introduce new functionalities and new stuff, unless it fixes bugs, or if someone from outside the Lubuntu dev team is actively working on it. In the short-term, that means : Does this mean that you don't think it is worth the effort to supply LTS for 14.04? In that case, what should we tell the users with old hardware, who do not want to hop between versions every 6 months: - use Xubuntu until April 2015 - use LXLE - use Precise Gnome Classic Tweak - use Bodhi Linux or something else? - The only LXDE components which will be eventually upgraded will be pcmanfm / libfm. The others will be upgraded, but currently there are only bug fixes / translation updates releases. - Adding light-locker for locking screen, it's actively developed, use (or will be used) by Xubuntu, it's in the philosophy of Lubuntu (GTK apps without any depends on other environment), it's prettier than xscreensaver, more integrated with lightdm, and it will hopefully fix the locking problems we have. - No others changes in default applications. We removed the more problematics ones, and a change will cause more testing, more integration work … Generaly, and by default, we are frozen in term of functionalities. The goal is double : - Stabilize this 14.04 as much as we can, so it can be the release reference. - Prepare an eventual switch to Qt for 14.10, mostly by preparing the testing environment for people, and make possible a smooth upgrade from the GTK version. I'll go through the blueprints open for discussions, but I'll apply strictly the “rules” I made above. Don't be surprised … Usually, there is a blueprint which summarize the workitems for the release (see this for example https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-lubuntu-work-items). Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). I'm developing and maintaining tools to make it easier to create USB boot devices and to install operating systems. So it would be natural for me to either try to replace usb-creator-gtk or improve it. Since gtk will soon be obsolete, I could either focus on replacements or a future version of usb-creator. Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
2013/11/18 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com: Before talking about the future of Lubuntu, you have to know and realize the followings facts : - My availability will not improve in the future. That means I will focus on fixing stuff, improving lxsession stuff, try to do some documentation, and prepare the future. - We have to consider that no one will magically appear to improve the code of Lubuntu. It's the case since many months, and I don't think it will magically change for the next 6 months. We also don't have the infrastructure (documentation, clean process, availability of mentors ...) to correctly train new people on the devs team, so even if new young and enthusiastic people arrive, they can't really help us if they need training, guidance ...We may have some outside help on specific topics or bugs, but it will not change deeply Lubuntu as we know it. If eventually someone comes with actual work (mean, actual working code), we can still consider it if it's well tested. - LXDE is dying. Well, except pcmanfm, all components are frozen and will probably not going to see any improvements in the next 6 months. Expect only bug fixes and translations updates. - LXQt (the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE, using Qt instead of GTK) is slowly taking the place of the LXDE GTK. All work are done on this branch. Considering this, and the result of the previous release, we have to admit that we need to focus on fixing bugs for 14.04. We can't introduce new functionalities and new stuff, unless it fixes bugs, or if someone from outside the Lubuntu dev team is actively working on it. In the short-term, that means : - The only LXDE components which will be eventually upgraded will be pcmanfm / libfm. The others will be upgraded, but currently there are only bug fixes / translation updates releases. - Adding light-locker for locking screen, it's actively developed, use (or will be used) by Xubuntu, it's in the philosophy of Lubuntu (GTK apps without any depends on other environment), it's prettier than xscreensaver, more integrated with lightdm, and it will hopefully fix the locking problems we have. - No others changes in default applications. We removed the more problematics ones, and a change will cause more testing, more integration work … Generaly, and by default, we are frozen in term of functionalities. The goal is double : - Stabilize this 14.04 as much as we can, so it can be the release reference. - Prepare an eventual switch to Qt for 14.10, mostly by preparing the testing environment for people, and make possible a smooth upgrade from the GTK version. I'll go through the blueprints open for discussions, but I'll apply strictly the “rules” I made above. Don't be surprised … Usually, there is a blueprint which summarize the workitems for the release (see this for example https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-lubuntu-work-items). Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users Julien, Thank you for your detailed e-mail. I was looking forward to hearing from 14.04 and the future. Regarding: Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). I agree it'll be a waste of time if we may be moving to LXQt on 14.10 cycle. Hence, does 14.04 has to remain LTS yet? I mean, should we drop the LTS idea for 14.04 once: - LXDE is dying; - we're missing devs and LTS would demand support together with the non-LTS releases. - LXQt seems to be not ready for 14.04 Best regards, -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ibere-Fernandes -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: Roadmap for 14.04
On 11/18/2013 11:10 AM, Iberê Fernandes wrote: 2013/11/18 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com: Before talking about the future of Lubuntu, you have to know and realize the followings facts : - My availability will not improve in the future. That means I will focus on fixing stuff, improving lxsession stuff, try to do some documentation, and prepare the future. - We have to consider that no one will magically appear to improve the code of Lubuntu. It's the case since many months, and I don't think it will magically change for the next 6 months. We also don't have the infrastructure (documentation, clean process, availability of mentors ...) to correctly train new people on the devs team, so even if new young and enthusiastic people arrive, they can't really help us if they need training, guidance ...We may have some outside help on specific topics or bugs, but it will not change deeply Lubuntu as we know it. If eventually someone comes with actual work (mean, actual working code), we can still consider it if it's well tested. - LXDE is dying. Well, except pcmanfm, all components are frozen and will probably not going to see any improvements in the next 6 months. Expect only bug fixes and translations updates. - LXQt (the merge of Razor-qt and LXDE, using Qt instead of GTK) is slowly taking the place of the LXDE GTK. All work are done on this branch. Considering this, and the result of the previous release, we have to admit that we need to focus on fixing bugs for 14.04. We can't introduce new functionalities and new stuff, unless it fixes bugs, or if someone from outside the Lubuntu dev team is actively working on it. In the short-term, that means : - The only LXDE components which will be eventually upgraded will be pcmanfm / libfm. The others will be upgraded, but currently there are only bug fixes / translation updates releases. - Adding light-locker for locking screen, it's actively developed, use (or will be used) by Xubuntu, it's in the philosophy of Lubuntu (GTK apps without any depends on other environment), it's prettier than xscreensaver, more integrated with lightdm, and it will hopefully fix the locking problems we have. - No others changes in default applications. We removed the more problematics ones, and a change will cause more testing, more integration work … Generaly, and by default, we are frozen in term of functionalities. The goal is double : - Stabilize this 14.04 as much as we can, so it can be the release reference. - Prepare an eventual switch to Qt for 14.10, mostly by preparing the testing environment for people, and make possible a smooth upgrade from the GTK version. I'll go through the blueprints open for discussions, but I'll apply strictly the “rules” I made above. Don't be surprised … Usually, there is a blueprint which summarize the workitems for the release (see this for example https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-lubuntu-work-items). Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users Julien, Thank you for your detailed e-mail. I was looking forward to hearing from 14.04 and the future. Regarding: Since the next release is a “all-you-can-fix” roadmap, maintaining it will be IMO a waste of time. If you want to work on something specific, talk to me by mail or IRC (gilir on #lubuntu). I agree it'll be a waste of time if we may be moving to LXQt on 14.10 cycle. Hence, does 14.04 has to remain LTS yet? I mean, should we drop the LTS idea for 14.04 once: - LXDE is dying; - we're missing devs and LTS would demand support together with the non-LTS releases. - LXQt seems to be not ready for 14.04 Best regards, +1 LXQt. Of course if you do an LTS, you can SRU LXQt when it works correctly, right? You can include a ppa when using pbuilder, so couldn't you transition people to LXQt once it is mature? Or am I misunderstanding something? Also, Ubuntu is making a lot of Qt apps (for phone, etc...) but many of those should work fairly easily with LXQt, and QML apps are pretty simple to write, so building a QML app with the SDK to do simple things seems to be fairly straightforward. I am new here by the way, Hi everyone! I may have accidentally jumped into the middle and didn't hear the full beginning, so excuse me if I made some wrong inferences. I am also beginning to learn QML, and have a basic C++ understanding (still learning). I really like Lubuntu more than all the other alternatives to Unity (though I do like Unity as well). I joined this list because of talking to Rafael Laguna about artwork, and this e-mail intrigued me so much I had to chime in.
