[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: String spacing. Please Help.
Juan, and all, I hesitate to say that the spacing of piano keys is irrelvant, but I'll say it anyway. The pianist has an advantage not often noted. The keyboard is in front of him (just once will I be PC and say "or her") and the music is just above the keyboard. My main instrument is the Celtic harp (but the same applies to the orchestral). Our music is off to the side, and our reach for the strings is limited by arm length. A pianist with small hands may not be able to play more than an octave chord, but his hands are within view of his periferal vision. The standard spacing is valid there, its limitation is minor. The lute and the harp are a different matter, and each of them is a different matter. The guitar is also different, as the string length is fixed so the instrument is always about the same size. But I may point out that the string spacing is quite different on the various guitars (I've been playing since 1947). The classical, or spanish, neck is a bit over 2 inches at the nut and the folk or western neck is a bit under (with the country steel string a bit more under). The narrow neck guitars are played with a lot of "double string" bridging by large fingers, having small fingers I've always favored the wider spacing of the Spanish nut as I can't bridge the narrow ones. On a piano it matters not if on hits the center of the key, as long as one doesn't hit two key. But with strings the fingers become important. On lute and guitar one can't look at one's fingers as they play, one has to construct a muscle memory for the spacing - so the spacing becomes more important for the individual. That also applies to the Irish penny whistle, I know a man who is expert there (and I do play it also) and he has to spend an hour of practice when switching from a low whistle to a high one (the spacing is quite different as it is dictated by the air column). The harp is similar to the piano, as each string is independant, but also similar to the lute and guitar as the spacing involves finger size (if the finger is thicker than the spacing then there can't be play without "buzz". For David van Edwards, I finished the lute mold from your CD a long time ago, and I shaved the slats for the ribs - but I dropped the project a year and a half ago when I had a stroke. I will finish it, and send a picture as I promised way back then. But it may be a bit of a while as a few other projects got in the way as they were better for rehabilitating the old left hand hit by the stroke. The Compleat Musician must be able to play without looking at the strings (but not all of us can be that good). The piano makes it a bit easier with the standard spacing and the spread of the keyboard in front of the player. But that doesn't mean the lute should be a standard spacing, it can't be when one condiders that the family includes the renaissance and the baroque, the tenor and the bass. Nor can the harp be, a larger harp (say 36 strings) involves an arm reach which can't be faked. The smaller ones (mine is a double strung of 26 x 2 strings, so my fifty two strings are in the space of a 26 string lap harp). I yet think the instrument and the player are inseperable when it comes to spacing. After all, the lutenists of old were far smaller people than those of today - if we accept the population statistics as we know them from artifacts of the earlier period. Henry VIII was considered a large man for his time, but at age 12 I couldn't have fit into his armor as display! ed in the NYC Metropolitan Museum. Make an instrument that sounds like the original, but make it to fit your hands. Best, Jon - Original Message - From: Juan Fco. Prieto To: Jon Murphy ; lutelist ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 5:59 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: String spacing. Please Help. Thanks also for your contribution, Jon. I agree mainly with you but I think that pianists, fortunately, have not such problems -like us- : All the keyboards are identical, regardless hands size, and this standard make possible people to play around the world. No matter they have small hands like Alicia de Larrocha or big ones, like Arcadi Volodos. That's another world. My son plays piano and he was not worried thinking about the key spacing on his recently bought instrument. He had only to choose model (brand) and size. Even in the classical guitar world seems to be a more standard spacing (about 11 mm. between strings at bridge) than for the lute. I want to encourage you to keep enjoying the lute and the music for a very long time. My best regards, Juan Fco. Prieto. P.S.: Jon, I'm also playing a 10c. lute I built from a kit in 1980. This was a very funny adventure that ended happily: I was able to finish it and... the lute sounds quite well! But in some moments I was afraid to end with a pile of crashed woods, useful for barbecue. :-)) 2007/5/27, Jon Murphy
[LUTE] Re: youtube
At 08:53 AM 5/26/2007, Roman Turovsky wrote: >This is truly mindblowing: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTHgDQFnMZc >RT That was fun. I particularly like the smallest guy complaining that he wants to play it faster. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lutenistic Fun, was: youtube
I recent week a friend of mine (fellow lutenetter from Limburg) and I have been playing transatlantic musical e-games, with interesting results: http://torban.org/audio/torbantraverso.mp3 >> http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno1.mp3 >> (variant- http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno2.mp3 the scores- http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno.pdf http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno2.pdf). RT > That was fun. I particularly like the smallest guy complaining that he > wants to play it faster. > > Eugene > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lutenistic Fun, was: youtube
And another e-game: http://turovsky.org/music/torbanharp2.mp3 http://turovsky.org/music/torbanharp3.mp3 based on http://www.torban.org/audio/203vocal.mp3 http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/203vocal.pdf RT >In recent weeks a friend of mine (fellow lutenetter from Limburg) and I >have > been playing transatlantic musical e-games, with interesting results: > http://torban.org/audio/torbantraverso.mp3 >>> http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno1.mp3 >>> (variant- http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno2.mp3 > the scores- > http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno.pdf > http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno2.pdf). > RT > > > > > >> That was fun. I particularly like the smallest guy complaining that he >> wants to play it faster. >> >> Eugene >> >> > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: need renaissance Lute CASE
Does anyone have an extra Ren Lute case to sell? Denny Franco St. Louis _ From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "EugeneC.Braig IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Lutelist" Subject: [LUTE] Lutenistic Fun, was: youtube Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 09:18:23 -0400 >I recent week a friend of mine (fellow lutenetter from Limburg) and I have >been playing transatlantic musical e-games, with interesting results: >http://torban.org/audio/torbantraverso.mp3 > >> http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno1.mp3 > >> (variant- http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno2.mp3 >the scores- >http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno.pdf >http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno2.pdf). >RT > > > > > > > That was fun. I particularly like the smallest guy complaining that he > > wants to play it faster. > > > > Eugene > > > > > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html _ [1]Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. Its free. References 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2737??PS=47575
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Need used Ren Lute Case
Does anyone in the USA have an used Renaissance Lute CASE I can buy? Denny Franco..St. Louis __ From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Juan Fco.Prieto"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"lutelist" , <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: String spacing. Please Help. Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 04:25:35 -0400 >Juan, and all, > >I hesitate to say that the spacing of piano keys is irrelvant, but I'll say it anyway. The pianist has an advantage not often noted. The keyboard is in front of him (just once will I be PC and say "or her") and the music is just above the keyboard. My main instrument is the Celtic harp (but the same applies to the orchestral). Our music is off to the side, and our reach for the strings is limited by arm length. A pianist with small hands may not be able to play more than an octave chord, but his hands are within view of his periferal vision. The standard spacing is valid there, its limitation is minor. > >The lute and the harp are a different matter, and each of them is a different matter. The guitar is also different, as the string length is fixed so the instrument is always about the same size. But I may point out that the string spacing is quite different on the various guitars (I've been playing since 1947). The classical, or spanish, neck is a bit over 2 inches at the nut and the folk or western neck is a bit under (with the country steel string a bit more under). The narrow neck guitars are played with a lot of "double string" bridging by large fingers, having small fingers I've always favored the wider spacing of the Spanish nut as I can't bridge the narrow ones. > >On a piano it matters not if on hits the center of the key, as long as one doesn't hit two key. But with strings the fingers become important. On lute and guitar one can't look at one's fingers as they play, one has to construct a muscle memory for the spacing - so the spacing becomes more important for the individual. That also applies to the Irish penny whistle, I know a man who is expert there (and I do play it also) and he has to spend an hour of practice when switching from a low whistle to a high one (the spacing is quite different as it is dictated by the air column). > >The harp is similar to the piano, as each string is independant, but also similar to the lute and guitar as the spacing involves finger size (if the finger is thicker than the spacing then there can't be play without "buzz". > >For David van Edwards, I finished the lute mold from your CD a long time ago, and I shaved the slats for the ribs - but I dropped the project a year and a half ago when I had a stroke. I will finish it, and send a picture as I promised way back then. But it may be a bit of a while as a few other projects got in the way as they were better for rehabilitating the old left hand hit by the stroke. > >The Compleat Musician must be able to play without looking at the strings (but not all of us can be that good). The piano makes it a bit easier with the standard spacing and the spread of the keyboard in front of the player. But that doesn't mean the lute should be a standard spacing, it can't be when one condiders that the family includes the renaissance and the baroque, the tenor and the bass. Nor can the harp be, a larger harp (say 36 strings) involves an arm reach which can't be faked. The smaller ones (mine is a double strung of 26 x 2 strings, so my fifty two strings are in the space of a 26 string lap harp). I yet think the instrument and the player are inseperable when it comes to spacing. After all, the lutenists of old were far smaller people than those of today - if we accept the population statistics as we know them from artifacts of the earlier period. Henry VIII was considered a large man for his time, but at age 12 I couldn't have fit into his armor as display! > ed in the NYC Metropolitan Museum. > >Make an instrument that sounds like the original, but make it to fit your hands. > >Best, Jon > > - Original Message - > From: Juan Fco. Prieto > To: Jon Murphy ; lutelist ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 5:59 AM > Subject: Re: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: String spacing. Please Help. > > > Thanks also for your contribution, Jon. I agree mainly with you but I think that pianists, fortunately, have not such problems -like us- : All the keyboards are identical, regardless hands size, and this standard make possible people to play around the world.
[LUTE] Re: Lutenistic Fun, was: youtube
This was also fun...in a somewhat more sublimely fun kinda way. Eugene At 09:18 AM 5/29/2007, Roman Turovsky wrote: >I recent week a friend of mine (fellow lutenetter from Limburg) and I have >been playing transatlantic musical e-games, with interesting results: >http://torban.org/audio/torbantraverso.mp3 > >> http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno1.mp3 > >> (variant- http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno2.mp3 >the scores- >http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno.pdf >http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno2.pdf). >RT > > > That was fun. I particularly like the smallest guy complaining that he > > wants to play it faster. > > > > Eugene > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lutenistic Fun, was: youtube
A fragment from a torban concerto: http://torban.org/audio/torbanconcerto.mp3 RT > And another e-game: > http://turovsky.org/music/torbanharp2.mp3 > http://turovsky.org/music/torbanharp3.mp3 > based on > http://www.torban.org/audio/203vocal.mp3 > http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/203vocal.pdf > RT > >>In recent weeks a friend of mine (fellow lutenetter from Limburg) and I >>have >> been playing transatlantic musical e-games, with interesting results: >> http://torban.org/audio/torbantraverso.mp3 http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno1.mp3 (variant- http://torban.org/pisni/images/mahno2.mp3 >> the scores- >> http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno.pdf >> http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/duma-pro-nestora-makhno2.pdf). >> RT >> >> >> >> >> >>> That was fun. I particularly like the smallest guy complaining that he >>> wants to play it faster. >>> >>> Eugene >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >
