[LUTE] Re: Help with LH fingering
OK--I've had a chance to try out Dan's solution (YMMV--I happen to be a little inept). Works a lot better than the barring I was attempting. The second and third occurrences present a different shift to the d6f3d2. Middle finger on the previous d3 moves to d6, while index slides from c2 to d2? I'm trying to keep my ring finger out of the way in all this! It's a bit of a digital workout. Leonard On 1/21/10 2:45 AM, "Daniel Winheld" wrote: > This is the fingering I sent to Leonard. Any thoughts, improvements? Is > it clear? >__ > > In the 4th measure, 2nd beat, prepare by fingering the c-a with the > index finger, then the d-f with either index sliding up to "d" or > middle finger, (I prefer sliding index) but little finger on "f" fret > 3rd course in any case and KEEP IT DOWN! > > Last beat of that measure, the "c" fret, 2nd course, under the first * > top line, use index finger. KEEP THE INDEX FINGER ON THAT 2nd COURSE! > Next measure, slide the index to the "d" fret, middle finger takes the > low 6th course B flat, "d" fret, little finger "f" fret, 3rd course- > where it has been since the last measure. > > Keep middle finger and little finger in place as you slide index finger > BACK to 2nd course "c" fret, then back up to "d" fret for last > beat/chord of measure 5. Next line, complete position change and back > to more normal fingerings. > > Hope this is clear, it may feel a touch counter-intuitive or weird at > first, but it works- and I can't see a smoother way. Please let me know > how this works for you, and if I've explained adequately. > > Dan > > | |\ > | | * > | | > __ _a__c__a_ _c__a _a_a_ a >|_c__d_|_c__d__c_|_d__c__d_|_c__d__c_|_d__c__d_| >|_d__f_|_|___f_|f|_f_f_| >|__|_|_|_|_| >|_a|_a___|_a___|_a___|_| >|__|_|_|_|_d___| > > * > _ _ _ a _ >|_c__a|_a_a_|_c__a__c_|_d__c__d_|_c__a| >|_d__c__d_|_c__d__c_|_d__c__d_|_f_f_|_d__c__d_| >|___e_|e|_|_|___e_| >|_a___|_|_a___|_|_a___| >|_|_a___|_|_d___|_| > > >| >| > *|. > _ _ a _ _ ___ >|_a_a_|_c__a__c_|_d__c__d_|_c__a|_a_a_|_c_| >|_c__d__c_|_d__c__d_|_f_f_|_d__c__d_|_c__d__c_|_d_| >|e|_|_|___e_|e|___| >|_|_a___|_|_a___|_|_a_| >|_a___|_|_d___|_|_a___|___| > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > Rachel Winheld > 820 Colusa Avenue > Berkeley, CA 94707 > rwinh...@comcast.net > Tel 510.526.0242 > > Cell 510.915.4276 > > -- >
[LUTE] Re: Help with LH fingering
Hi Dan and All, I think Dan's fingering is good, and it follows a good principle - the further you have to reach, the longer the finger you use. We have mostly been taught to play two notes on the same fret by turning the hand to use the first finger for the note nearest the bass and the second for the note nearest the treble, but sometimes it makes sense to do it the other way round. Consider c1a2a4c5: if you use the first finger for the c5 it is very difficult for it to clear the open 4th course, but if you use the first finger for c1 and the second (longer) finger for c5 it gets easier. If I remember correctly, this fingering is given somewhere in Newsidler. I often use the third finger for the c1, but it depends on context. Another alternative for the passage in question from Capirola is to just not attempt to hold the bass - it's surprising how effective (inaudible) this can be if done well. Using the thumb over the top of the neck is a technique regularly used by jazz and electric guitarists generally, and if paintings are anything to go by, 16th C lutenists as well. It's great if you can do it. Personally, I find my thumb too short, it's not worth the struggle. Best to all, Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke - 'lute stop' evidence
Hi lute folks, my lute teacher in the 1980's, Leif Karlson, co-student of Konrad Junghänel in Michael Schäffer's class in Cologne, used to joke by the "harpsichord stop" in his lute: he put a piece of some old string going over-under-over-under... of the courses of his lute, near the bridge. The lute produced quite an unpleasant rattling sound. Then Leif told to the harpsichord players present: "Listen to this! I now have my harpsichord stop on." ;-) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Help with LH fingering
Thank you Stephan for this link. Great to have all this info. As to using that left thumb effectively, I appreciate how you mention "the right" 6 course lute. Mine sure isn't, and it is not a particularly wide neck. On the other hand, coming from (originally) classical guitar which frowned vehemently on such LH usage, I have no skill or experience with this technique- which I have seen used by non-classical guitarists ONLY on very narrow neck guitars; but some of them do it with exquisite skill, rolling the hand into the neck and slipping that thumb over and onto the 6th string quickly, neatly, and accurately- then rolling right off it, and coming around almost instantly to do a full and very correct bar chord. I read somewhere that David van Ronk, (very large hands) could even fret the 5th string with his thumb. Different story for me, and of course anyone with 7 or more courses. I dug out my Capirola and tried out the fingering that I posted hastily last night, (the essence of which involves using the 2nd, middle finger instead of the putative thumb) and all works very smoothly for me at any reasonable tempo. Nice piece, too- I hadn't noticed it before. I hope we can look forward to the day when some lute players- perhaps specialists in 5 and very early 6 course lutes- can show us these techniques in use. Dan >The problem of fretting the sixth string pretty much goes away if >you have the right 6-course lute and can stop it with your thumb. >This is a common technique with electric guitar and seems to be >indicated as a possibility in the introduction to the Capirola MS ( >http://www.marincola.com/lutebot1.txt ). > >Stephen Fryer -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Help with LH fingering
Leonard Williams wrote: I've been working on Capirola's "Baleto da balar bello". The middle section has some simple looking but tricky chord shifts which I've been trying in various ways to make a smooth transition. Any recommendations? The section is below in ascii tab (use a monospace font). The tricky palces are marked with an *, but I'm not sure of the accuracy of the marking (e.g., the dotted note toward the end belongs at the end--can't seem to find the right font on my machine!). It's a Bb chord going to an Em? Thanks and regards, Leonard Williams The problem of fretting the sixth string pretty much goes away if you have the right 6-course lute and can stop it with your thumb. This is a common technique with electric guitar and seems to be indicated as a possibility in the introduction to the Capirola MS ( http://www.marincola.com/lutebot1.txt ). Stephen Fryer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Viola-Matic
How about home defense? Remember El Kabong, the alter ego of Quick Draw McGraw? - Original Message - From: "morgan cornwall" To: ; "Eugene C. Braig IV" Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Viola-Matic If you weigh this against all the appliances and gadgets it replaces, it's just the price of a few cups of coffee per day (for about 8 years). It probably could be used to grind beans as well. - Original Message - From: "Eugene C. Braig IV" To: Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Viola-Matic To quote the director of the Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra (who also works at a violin shop and used to play with Mannheim Steamroller), "Actual current price for a Luis & Clark carbon fiber viola: US$5,839.00!" Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel F Heiman Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:22 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Viola-Matic Decidedly off-topic, but something to think about for folks performing under less than ideal weather conditions. With a matched set of fluorocarbon strings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf2w2zMNvzE *This is a real playable musical instrument.* (Not quite as inexpensive as the tag line suggests.) Daniel Heiman To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4793 (20100121) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4793 (20100121) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke - 'lute stop' evidence
Andrew Gibbs points out: 17th c. harpsichord makers added another feature called a buff stop that had the opposite effect - it pressed leather pads against the strings to mute them. French and German makers called this respectively a 'registre de luth' or 'Lautenzug'. And asks" I have no idea why this would be considered lute-like - unless lute players were damping the strings with the heel of their right hand? If you were a harpsichord builder and wanted to make a stop that approximated two features that distinguished lute sound from harpsichord sound -- the less metallic sound of gut strings and the quicker decay that those less dense strings had -- how else would you do it? But I agree with Andrew (if indeed he meant to make this point) that it's a mistake to extrapolate lute tone from the names of harpsichord stops, as the opposite conclusions you could draw from the English lute stop and the French/German one show. Either stop may have been an attempt to evoke, rather than copy, the lute sound, rather like an impressionist exaggerates a few features of the famous person he's imitating. Or it may simply be that a harpsichord maker came up with an effect he liked and had to call it something, and it sounded more like a lute than a violin or trombone. For some perspective, consider the "bassoon stop" on late 18th- century pianos. It was a strip of parchment that touched the strings and made them buzz. It didn't sound like a bassoon, but it did sound more like a bassoon than it sounded like a violin or trombone. Any bassoonist who used it as any sort of guide in his playing would be on a fool's errand. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Viola-Matic
If you weigh this against all the appliances and gadgets it replaces, it's just the price of a few cups of coffee per day (for about 8 years). It probably could be used to grind beans as well. - Original Message - From: "Eugene C. Braig IV" To: Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Viola-Matic To quote the director of the Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra (who also works at a violin shop and used to play with Mannheim Steamroller), "Actual current price for a Luis & Clark carbon fiber viola: US$5,839.00!" Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel F Heiman Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:22 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Viola-Matic Decidedly off-topic, but something to think about for folks performing under less than ideal weather conditions. With a matched set of fluorocarbon strings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf2w2zMNvzE *This is a real playable musical instrument.* (Not quite as inexpensive as the tag line suggests.) Daniel Heiman To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 1006842.pdf (application/pdf Object)
Thank you Joachim, now I know a little better what I am looking at! David On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:47 AM, "Dr. Joachim Lüdtke" wrote: > Dear Luca, dear list, > > it's a reproduction of the lute manuscript Best. 7020 Nr. 328, which was > among the holdings of the Historical Archive in Cologne. The Archive's > buildings collapsed on 3 March 2009. The construction works for an > underground line near the site of the Historical Archive had already > resulted in damages to buildings in the same street during the months > before, and the staff of the Archive had been alarmed by cracks > appearing in the building's structure. On 3 March 2009 people in the > Historical Archive managed to evacuate the building just in time to > escape being crushed by the collapsing concrete structure. Two people in > a building next to the Archive's died, when this collapsed, too. The > buildings partly slid into a underground cave (a segment of the tunnel > for the underground line plus what richly flowing underground water had > washed out of the ground next to it), partly formed a chaotic heap of > rubble on the surface. > > The Historical Archive of Cologne is - or was? - a major institution, > containing sources from (roughly) one thousand years of the history of a > prominent town and port on the Rhine river. It is still not possible to > oversee the extent of damage and loss, and it may need more than ten > years to identify and repair (if possible) those parchments, papers, > films, photographs a.s.o. which were found in the collapsed building. > > I had been in Cologne in 1999 and had seen the lute manuscript and other > sources, and later had a microfilm of Best. 7020 Nr. 328 sent to me. You > will not find the book under this shelf mark in any source list, because > all of these were made up before the somewhat problematic system of > shelf marks in the Historical Archive was replaced by a new one. > "Sources manuscrites en tablature" record it as "KÖLN, Historisches > Archiv der Stadt (D KNa) | Ms. W[allraf] 4o 328*". It has been wrongly > dated to the years around 1600 (that's what is now repeated on the > website www.historischesarchivkoeln.de), which is far too early. Most of > its contents are in french tablature for a nine course lute. There are > two Passamezo antico variations in italian tablature without mensuration > signs and the last entries set melodies in french tablature (and in one > case, in mensural notation, too) with solfa. The paper is from a mill in > the Elsace region. The copying seems to have ended soon, as there are > today (or were just short of one year ago) only sixteen leaves left, > loosely bound into a parchment cover which might originally have > contained about 40 or even more. The missing leaves may have been used > for letter writing - there are/were some scribblings on pages without > music, one of it reads: "Inn Irer gnadenn händt | gelieffert den 18 > dato" [Delivered to Your Grace's hands the 18th this month]. > > I have not yet added up my notes concerning cognates and possible > concordances but have to hurry with this, however small, task - the > "Lauten-Info" 1 / 2010 will contain these. > > A few months before the accident in Cologne I asked the Historical > Archive to send me reproductions from two manuscripts recording new > citizens of Cologne. I was interested to show the entries, which record > Adriaen Denss' obtaining the Cologne citizenship, in a talk on Denss > during the Antwerp lute festival in February 2009. I was not able to > show them than, but the reproductions arrived after I had been in > Antwerp and have subsequently been printed with the text of my talk in > the Belgian Lute Academy's "Geluit-Luthinerie Yearbook 2009" - the text > is in my horrible English, please forgive! > > Happily, they have already built an underground line in Fuerth, where I > live since three years, and no accident has resulted from this. The > rivers Pegnitz (coming from nearby Nuremberg) and Rednitz, which flow > around the old city center and unite north of it to form the Regnitz, > which about 18 km to the north then passes Bubenreuth, from where some > of you may receive lute strings [after having passed Erlangen, where > Robert Lundberg once held his lute building lectures], are nothing > compared to the Rhine - we do not have a problem with an excessive high > level of underground water or high water pressure from underground > water. > > > All best, > > Joachim > > > > > > "Luca Manassero" schrieb: >> Dear Joachim, dear all, >> >> could you specify what is the facsimile about? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Luca >> >> >> Dr. Joachim Lüdtke on 19-01-2010 11:25 wrote: >> > Dear Rainer, dear all, >> > >> > I have to ask everybody's pardon for the poor quality of the >> > reproduction - I have digitalized a film, which itself had been copied >> > from another film years ago, with my home equipment. No professional job >> > though, :(, but as it may be that even such a copy is n
[LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke - 'lute stop' evidence
To add to the confusion: 17th c. harpsichord makers added another feature called a buff stop that had the opposite effect - it pressed leather pads against the strings to mute them. French and German makers called this respectively a 'registre de luth' or 'Lautenzug'. I have no idea why this would be considered lute-like - unless lute players were damping the strings with the heel of their right hand? Andrew common in Flemish and English models but not Italians On 21 Jan 2010, at 09:25, Martyn Hodgson wrote: >There seems to be some confusion here: the reference wasn't to > exotic >instruments (such as the lute-harpsichord/lautenclavicymbal etc) > but to >normal run of the mill English harpsichords in which an > additional row >of jacks placed closer to the bridge than the main ones was/is > called >the 'lute stop' (sometimes 'theorbo stop'). Hence my remark that > this >also supports a closer to the bridge (and more brittle/brilliant > sound) >hand position than is the fashion today for 'baroque' lutes. > >MH -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Viola-Matic
To quote the director of the Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra (who also works at a violin shop and used to play with Mannheim Steamroller), "Actual current price for a Luis & Clark carbon fiber viola: US$5,839.00!" Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of Daniel F Heiman > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:22 AM > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Viola-Matic > > Decidedly off-topic, but something to think about for folks performing > under less than ideal weather conditions. With a matched set of > fluorocarbon strings > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf2w2zMNvzE > > *This is a real playable musical instrument.* (Not quite as inexpensive > as the tag line suggests.) > > Daniel Heiman > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Baroque lute radius profile
I'm working on a little comparison of fingerboard radius and string spacing in the 18th century. Could anyone lead me to or send me drawings or specs of baroque lute nuts and or saddles in profile? Many thanks, Doc Rossi To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke - 'lute stop' evidence
Andrew, This quote from John Gunn's "The Art of Playing the German Flute" (London, 1793) is very intriguing: "The performers of the _old school_ had much more of what may be called _graces of the finger_, than the modern, which cultivates more the expression and powers of the bow, and the management of _tone_." What does he mean by "expression" and "management of tone?" One possible take on this is that baroque players (of the "old school") manipulated the emotive content of the music through their choice of ornamentation and figuration, placing what we would call "beautiful tone" in a secondary role. (This quote is also interesting in that a wind player uses examples from string playing when describing timbre.) This also fits in with the philosophy of most baroque singing tutors. Nearly all of them begin with something like, "This is how to sing well: This is a gruppo; This is a trillo; This is how to do simple divisions; Now more advanced, etc." Where are the mentions of such matters of primary importance to singers today such as breath support or the division of the voice into registers? This sort of thing wasn't really mentioned at all in tutors until Manual Garcia in the 19th century. I suspect that you may be right that the sound of the lautenwerk didn't fool anyone. As Martyn's mentioned in his observation about the lute stop on metal-strung harpsichords, it does seem to hint at the kind of tone lute players utilized. Why not? The harpsichord, lautenwerk, clavichord, and early piano all have a predominantly bright, brassy, twangy tone. I'm sure this was not because the instrument builders of the time were too stupid to figure out how to produce instruments that were more mellow, rather, this timbre fit the aesthetic of the time. Although it may be difficult to reconcile this sound with modern audiences, lute players today should think twice before avoiding it. Chris --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Andrew Gibbs wrote: > From: Andrew Gibbs > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke - 'lute stop' evidence > To: "Lutelist list" > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 1:55 PM > Agricola wrote: > > "... heard a 'Lautenclavicymbel' in Leipzig in about 1740, > designed > by Mr. Johann Sebastian Bach and made by Mr. Zacharias > Hildebrand, > which was smaller in size than a normal harpsichord but in > all other > respects similar. It had two choirs of gut strings, and a > so-called > little octave of brass strings. It is true that in its > normal setting > (that is, when only one stop was drawn) it sounded more > like a > theorbo than a lute. But if one drew the lute-stop (such as > is found > on a harpsichord) together with the cornet stop, one could > almost > deceive professional lutenists." > > I think we have to take this with a large pinch of salt - > like you > say, modern reconstructions of lautenwerks sound exactly as > you would > expect - like a gut-strung harpsichord with leather > plectra. > > Andrew > > On 20 Jan 2010, at 18:37, > wrote: > > > Yes. Also compelling are > the contemporary descriptions of the > > lautenwerk as being nearly sonically indistinguishable > from the > > lute. There are even reports that professional > lute players could > > be fooled if the instruments were played behind a > screen. From > > the sound of the modern lautenwerks I've heard, > I have never once > > feared that I might make the same mistake! > > > > Chris > > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: 1006842.pdf (application/pdf Object)
Dear Luca, dear list, it's a reproduction of the lute manuscript Best. 7020 Nr. 328, which was among the holdings of the Historical Archive in Cologne. The Archive's buildings collapsed on 3 March 2009. The construction works for an underground line near the site of the Historical Archive had already resulted in damages to buildings in the same street during the months before, and the staff of the Archive had been alarmed by cracks appearing in the building's structure. On 3 March 2009 people in the Historical Archive managed to evacuate the building just in time to escape being crushed by the collapsing concrete structure. Two people in a building next to the Archive's died, when this collapsed, too. The buildings partly slid into a underground cave (a segment of the tunnel for the underground line plus what richly flowing underground water had washed out of the ground next to it), partly formed a chaotic heap of rubble on the surface. The Historical Archive of Cologne is - or was? - a major institution, containing sources from (roughly) one thousand years of the history of a prominent town and port on the Rhine river. It is still not possible to oversee the extent of damage and loss, and it may need more than ten years to identify and repair (if possible) those parchments, papers, films, photographs a.s.o. which were found in the collapsed building. I had been in Cologne in 1999 and had seen the lute manuscript and other sources, and later had a microfilm of Best. 7020 Nr. 328 sent to me. You will not find the book under this shelf mark in any source list, because all of these were made up before the somewhat problematic system of shelf marks in the Historical Archive was replaced by a new one. "Sources manuscrites en tablature" record it as "KÖLN, Historisches Archiv der Stadt (D KNa) | Ms. W[allraf] 4o 328*". It has been wrongly dated to the years around 1600 (that's what is now repeated on the website www.historischesarchivkoeln.de), which is far too early. Most of its contents are in french tablature for a nine course lute. There are two Passamezo antico variations in italian tablature without mensuration signs and the last entries set melodies in french tablature (and in one case, in mensural notation, too) with solfa. The paper is from a mill in the Elsace region. The copying seems to have ended soon, as there are today (or were just short of one year ago) only sixteen leaves left, loosely bound into a parchment cover which might originally have contained about 40 or even more. The missing leaves may have been used for letter writing - there are/were some scribblings on pages without music, one of it reads: "Inn Irer gnadenn händt | gelieffert den 18 dato" [Delivered to Your Grace's hands the 18th this month]. I have not yet added up my notes concerning cognates and possible concordances but have to hurry with this, however small, task - the "Lauten-Info" 1 / 2010 will contain these. A few months before the accident in Cologne I asked the Historical Archive to send me reproductions from two manuscripts recording new citizens of Cologne. I was interested to show the entries, which record Adriaen Denss' obtaining the Cologne citizenship, in a talk on Denss during the Antwerp lute festival in February 2009. I was not able to show them than, but the reproductions arrived after I had been in Antwerp and have subsequently been printed with the text of my talk in the Belgian Lute Academy's "Geluit-Luthinerie Yearbook 2009" - the text is in my horrible English, please forgive! Happily, they have already built an underground line in Fuerth, where I live since three years, and no accident has resulted from this. The rivers Pegnitz (coming from nearby Nuremberg) and Rednitz, which flow around the old city center and unite north of it to form the Regnitz, which about 18 km to the north then passes Bubenreuth, from where some of you may receive lute strings [after having passed Erlangen, where Robert Lundberg once held his lute building lectures], are nothing compared to the Rhine - we do not have a problem with an excessive high level of underground water or high water pressure from underground water. All best, Joachim "Luca Manassero" schrieb: > Dear Joachim, dear all, > > could you specify what is the facsimile about? > > Thank you, > > Luca > > > Dr. Joachim Lüdtke on 19-01-2010 11:25 wrote: > > Dear Rainer, dear all, > > > > I have to ask everybody's pardon for the poor quality of the > > reproduction - I have digitalized a film, which itself had been copied > > from another film years ago, with my home equipment. No professional job > > though, :(, but as it may be that even such a copy is now a rarity I > > thought it fit to do this and not to wait until I > > might eventually be able to afford the services of pros. > > > > Unfortunately, the Cologne archive repeats the misleading dating of the > > book on its site. I will ask them to correct this after the second part > > of my a
[LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke - 'lute stop' evidence
There seems to be some confusion here: the reference wasn't to exotic instruments (such as the lute-harpsichord/lautenclavicymbal etc) but to normal run of the mill English harpsichords in which an additional row of jacks placed closer to the bridge than the main ones was/is called the 'lute stop' (sometimes 'theorbo stop'). Hence my remark that this also supports a closer to the bridge (and more brittle/brilliant sound) hand position than is the fashion today for 'baroque' lutes. MH --- On Wed, 20/1/10, David Tayler wrote: From: David Tayler Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke - 'lute stop' evidence To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Date: Wednesday, 20 January, 2010, 19:07 As far as renaissance goes, the Mueller harpsichord has many of the qualities of a lute, tone transposition and a crank that moves the plucking point closer to the bridge and closer to the center. I can imagine that most players would vary their plucking points, though some would prefer to stay planted until the divot burnishes through. dt At 10:55 AM 1/20/2010, you wrote: >Agricola wrote: > >"... heard a 'Lautenclavicymbel' in Leipzig in about 1740, designed >by Mr. Johann Sebastian Bach and made by Mr. Zacharias Hildebrand, >which was smaller in size than a normal harpsichord but in all other >respects similar. It had two choirs of gut strings, and a so-called >little octave of brass strings. It is true that in its normal setting >(that is, when only one stop was drawn) it sounded more like a >theorbo than a lute. But if one drew the lute-stop (such as is found >on a harpsichord) together with the cornet stop, one could almost >deceive professional lutenists." > >I think we have to take this with a large pinch of salt - like you >say, modern reconstructions of lautenwerks sound exactly as you would >expect - like a gut-strung harpsichord with leather plectra. > >Andrew > >On 20 Jan 2010, at 18:37, <[1]chriswi...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Yes. Also compelling are the contemporary descriptions of the > > lautenwerk as being nearly sonically indistinguishable from the > > lute. There are even reports that professional lute players could > > be fooled if the instruments were played behind a screen. From > > the sound of the modern lautenwerks I've heard, I have never once > > feared that I might make the same mistake! > > > > Chris > > >-- > >To get on or off this list see list information at >[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chriswi...@yahoo.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
