[LUTE] Re: New frets
Double frets indeed - as generally used historically and with the
advantage of a simple elegant knot to boot.
The advantages of double loop frets have been explained in this forum
before. The continuing, if strange, fascination single loops seems to
defy historical evidence and practical experience
MH.
--- On Thu, 18/2/10, Martin Shepherd wrote:
From: Martin Shepherd
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets
To: "Lute List"
Date: Thursday, 18 February, 2010, 14:20
Hi All,
The breakthrough for me came when I changed my method of fret
knotting.
I used to tie a slip knot ("granny knot" - a reef knot with the second
turn the wrong way). Works fine for thin frets, and with
smooth-finished gut, but otherwise the slip knot is not so willing to
slip. So I tried the method someone suggested to me (Pat O'Brien?)
which is to tie a single overhand knot near the end and pass the free
end through it - the ultimate slip knot, not really a knot at all.
Surprisingly, the gut has enough friction that when you pull this up it
holds without slipping back, so you tighten it nearer the nut than you
want to end up (a choix), trim off the free end and burn it down to
lock
it, then slide the fret up to where you want it. It's very neat, too.
But as for double frets.
Best wishes,
Martin
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
>
>The gut should be pre-stretched before fitting. Mace (1676 p 69)
>confirms this and provides good practical advice:
>
>' And you will find, that the first Fret, will be ever the hardest
to
>Tye well on, for two Reasons.
>First, because it is the Thickest, therefore not so ready to ply,
and
>stretch.
>2sly. Because there is but a little narrower room above It, by
reason
>it is so near the Nutt: Therefore you must be the more careful ,
to
>stretch it very well, before you settle It.'
>
>He also recommends tying it higher (ie to wards the nut) and
stretching
>by forcing down to its alotted position a number of times: 'Thus
do it
>three or four times, till at last you find it stiff,'
>
>Finally he suggests a second knot to prevent any possible
slipping:
>'... you are (after all stretching) to Tye it, of another hard
Knot,
>and then it is firmly fast'.
>
>MH
>--- On Wed, 17/2/10, Christopher Stetson <[1]cstet...@smith.edu>
wrote:
>
> From: Christopher Stetson <[2]cstet...@smith.edu>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets
> To: "Lute List" <[3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, 17 February, 2010, 20:35
>
> Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet
again
>put
> off refretting.
> While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or
>keeping
> the 1st fret really tight?
> Best to all,
> Chris.
>
>
>--
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cstet...@smith.edu
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cstet...@smith.edu
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the "Sun King", Louis XIV
What is truly amazing is the matched set of baroque accordians which presumably were the basis for the Cajun accordion, the originals now at Tulane. d At 03:03 PM 2/18/2010, you wrote: I doubt it. I was living in St. Louis at the time, so it was at least 15 years ago, and the Web was barely getting started... -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of t...@heartistrymusic.com Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:30 PM To: t...@heartistrymusic.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; 'wikla'; Guy Smith Subject: [LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the "Sun King", Louis XIV > I heard an interesting radio article some years ago on NPR about early > jazz in New Orleans. Apparently, most of the band leaders at the time > were German immigrants. Many (most?) of the early jazz musicians > learned how to play from German bandmasters, which had a definite > influence on the style. > Guy That's Wild! I'd love to hear the broadcast. Do you think it might be available for streaming on NPR's site? Thanks Guy, Tom > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of t...@heartistrymusic.com Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 > 5:32 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; wikla Subject: [LUTE] Re: Louisiana > and the "Sun King", Louis XIV > > > just came to my mind that the relation between American blues and > > French baroque perhaps is not at all a coincidence. Perhaps the real > > swing in the form of inegalite, "un-equalness" of notes, of > > performing music, really came from the French baroque music to the > > "new world"? > A very interesting question. Am I reading you correctly? Are you > hypothesizing that the "swing" of American blues originates in the > French "inegalité" ? > I would suspect that it is the other way 'round. I believe the > unique > 12/8 swing feel of blues > most likely comes from African dance rhythms. Their music and dance > were the only ways they had of holding on to the culture they lost > when they were ripped away from home and brought to North America as > slaves. I doubt that many (if any) African slaves heard the music of > aristocratic French society - certainly not enough to influence the > music of an entire culture passed on via oral tradition. However, I > do think it is plausible that French musicians, or dancing masters, or > both, could have heard slave music in the Caribbean and incorporated > elements into their music or dance upon return to France. African > rhythms combined with fiddle tunes from Great Britain became American > square dance music. The blues and jazz that grew out of New Orleans > was profoundly influenced by immigrants who were former slaves from > Haiti and Jamaica, and their descendents. I have attached a PDF > article by Michael Ventura which goes into depth on this subject. > I think all musicians should learn to dance. It's all about dance > rhythms. One can't play a Galliard properly without knowing how to > dance one. Bach's suites were all base on dance rhythms. There is > great argument about how to interpret these, with one side saying he > didn't intend them as dances at all and the other side saying the > opposite. For a wonderful treatise on this read Anner Bylsma, "Bach > the Fencing Master". > http://www.bylsmafencing.com/ > Thanks, Arto, for a very interesting idea. I'll look forward to > thoughts > from the rest of the > list. > Tom > Tom Draughon > Heartistry Music > http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html > 714 9th Avenue West > Ashland, WI 54806 > 715-682-9362 > > > As perhaps many know, France happened to have certain influence > > there in the eastern Norh America in the baroque times: see > > Wikipedia > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Louisiana#French_exploration > > _a nd_colonization_.281528.E2.80.931756.29 > > > > And for ex. the name "Louisina" was given to an area of land by the > > French explorer Robert Cavelier de La Salle, who named a region > > "Louisiana" to honor France's King Louis XIV in 1682. And that king > > happened to be be also the king of those musicians who were on the > > top of "inegalitee"... ;-) > > > > And remember what New Orleans is (was?) to the blues and jazz. And > > it is (was?) an Orleans, anyhow. > > > > Best, > > > > Arto > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > Tom Draughon > Heartistry Music > http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html > 714 9th Avenue West > Ashland, WI 54806 > 715-682-9362 > > -- > Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the "Sun King", Louis XIV
I doubt it. I was living in St. Louis at the time, so it was at least 15 years ago, and the Web was barely getting started... -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of t...@heartistrymusic.com Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:30 PM To: t...@heartistrymusic.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; 'wikla'; Guy Smith Subject: [LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the "Sun King", Louis XIV > I heard an interesting radio article some years ago on NPR about early > jazz in New Orleans. Apparently, most of the band leaders at the time > were German immigrants. Many (most?) of the early jazz musicians > learned how to play from German bandmasters, which had a definite > influence on the style. > Guy That's Wild! I'd love to hear the broadcast. Do you think it might be available for streaming on NPR's site? Thanks Guy, Tom > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of t...@heartistrymusic.com Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 > 5:32 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; wikla Subject: [LUTE] Re: Louisiana > and the "Sun King", Louis XIV > > > just came to my mind that the relation between American blues and > > French baroque perhaps is not at all a coincidence. Perhaps the real > > swing in the form of inegalite, "un-equalness" of notes, of > > performing music, really came from the French baroque music to the > > "new world"? > A very interesting question. Am I reading you correctly? Are you > hypothesizing that the "swing" of American blues originates in the > French "inegalité" ? > I would suspect that it is the other way 'round. I believe the > unique > 12/8 swing feel of blues > most likely comes from African dance rhythms. Their music and dance > were the only ways they had of holding on to the culture they lost > when they were ripped away from home and brought to North America as > slaves. I doubt that many (if any) African slaves heard the music of > aristocratic French society - certainly not enough to influence the > music of an entire culture passed on via oral tradition. However, I > do think it is plausible that French musicians, or dancing masters, or > both, could have heard slave music in the Caribbean and incorporated > elements into their music or dance upon return to France. African > rhythms combined with fiddle tunes from Great Britain became American > square dance music. The blues and jazz that grew out of New Orleans > was profoundly influenced by immigrants who were former slaves from > Haiti and Jamaica, and their descendents. I have attached a PDF > article by Michael Ventura which goes into depth on this subject. > I think all musicians should learn to dance. It's all about dance > rhythms. One can't play a Galliard properly without knowing how to > dance one. Bach's suites were all base on dance rhythms. There is > great argument about how to interpret these, with one side saying he > didn't intend them as dances at all and the other side saying the > opposite. For a wonderful treatise on this read Anner Bylsma, "Bach > the Fencing Master". > http://www.bylsmafencing.com/ > Thanks, Arto, for a very interesting idea. I'll look forward to > thoughts > from the rest of the > list. > Tom > Tom Draughon > Heartistry Music > http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html > 714 9th Avenue West > Ashland, WI 54806 > 715-682-9362 > > > As perhaps many know, France happened to have certain influence > > there in the eastern Norh America in the baroque times: see > > Wikipedia > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Louisiana#French_exploration > > _a nd_colonization_.281528.E2.80.931756.29 > > > > And for ex. the name "Louisina" was given to an area of land by the > > French explorer Robert Cavelier de La Salle, who named a region > > "Louisiana" to honor France's King Louis XIV in 1682. And that king > > happened to be be also the king of those musicians who were on the > > top of "inegalitee"... ;-) > > > > And remember what New Orleans is (was?) to the blues and jazz. And > > it is (was?) an Orleans, anyhow. > > > > Best, > > > > Arto > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > Tom Draughon > Heartistry Music > http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html > 714 9th Avenue West > Ashland, WI 54806 > 715-682-9362 > > -- > Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the "Sun King", Louis XIV
I wouldn't get carried away with making connections between place names and any specific musical style, he it baroque or blues. Just because Virginia is named after the Virgin Queen, doesn't give it an edge on things Elizabethan. La Salle was honoring his king by calling the place "Louisiana," and names associated with the "Sun King" don't end there. New Orleans was named after the son of Louis XIV's brother, the Duke of Orleans. They were members of the House of Bourbon, without which Bourbon Street would be called something else. Lake Pontchartrain was named for the Comte de Pontchartrain, successor to Louis' great finance minister Jean-Baptiste Colbert. Peter Danner In a message dated 2/17/10 1:29:21 PM, wi...@cs.helsinki.fi writes: And for ex. the name "Louisina" was given to an area of land by the French explorer Robert Cavelier de La Salle, who named a region "Louisiana" to honor France's King Louis XIV in 1682. And that king happened to be be also the king of those musicians who were on the top of "inegalitee"... ;-) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the "Sun King", Louis XIV
> I heard an interesting radio article some years ago on NPR about early > jazz in New Orleans. Apparently, most of the band leaders at the time > were German immigrants. Many (most?) of the early jazz musicians > learned how to play from German bandmasters, which had a definite > influence on the style. > Guy That's Wild! I'd love to hear the broadcast. Do you think it might be available for streaming on NPR's site? Thanks Guy, Tom > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of t...@heartistrymusic.com Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 > 5:32 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; wikla Subject: [LUTE] Re: Louisiana > and the "Sun King", Louis XIV > > > just came to my mind that the relation between American blues and > > French baroque perhaps is not at all a coincidence. Perhaps the real > > swing in the form of inegalite, "un-equalness" of notes, of > > performing music, really came from the French baroque music to the > > "new world"? > A very interesting question. Am I reading you correctly? Are you > hypothesizing that the "swing" of American blues originates in the > French "inegalité" ? > I would suspect that it is the other way 'round. I believe the > unique > 12/8 swing feel of blues > most likely comes from African dance rhythms. Their music and dance > were the only ways they had of holding on to the culture they lost > when they were ripped away from home and brought to North America as > slaves. I doubt that many (if any) African slaves heard the music of > aristocratic French society - certainly not enough to influence the > music of an entire culture passed on via oral tradition. However, I > do think it is plausible that French musicians, or dancing masters, or > both, could have heard slave music in the Caribbean and incorporated > elements into their music or dance upon return to France. African > rhythms combined with fiddle tunes from Great Britain became American > square dance music. The blues and jazz that grew out of New Orleans > was profoundly influenced by immigrants who were former slaves from > Haiti and Jamaica, and their descendents. I have attached a PDF > article by Michael Ventura which goes into depth on this subject. > I think all musicians should learn to dance. It's all about dance > rhythms. One can't play a Galliard properly without knowing how to > dance one. Bach's suites were all base on dance rhythms. There is > great argument about how to interpret these, with one side saying he > didn't intend them as dances at all and the other side saying the > opposite. For a wonderful treatise on this read Anner Bylsma, "Bach > the Fencing Master". > http://www.bylsmafencing.com/ > Thanks, Arto, for a very interesting idea. I'll look forward to > thoughts > from the rest of the > list. > Tom > Tom Draughon > Heartistry Music > http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html > 714 9th Avenue West > Ashland, WI 54806 > 715-682-9362 > > > As perhaps many know, France happened to have certain influence > > there in the eastern Norh America in the baroque times: see > > Wikipedia > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Louisiana#French_exploration > > _a nd_colonization_.281528.E2.80.931756.29 > > > > And for ex. the name "Louisina" was given to an area of land by the > > French explorer Robert Cavelier de La Salle, who named a region > > "Louisiana" to honor France's King Louis XIV in 1682. And that king > > happened to be be also the king of those musicians who were on the > > top of "inegalitee"... ;-) > > > > And remember what New Orleans is (was?) to the blues and jazz. And > > it is (was?) an Orleans, anyhow. > > > > Best, > > > > Arto > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > Tom Draughon > Heartistry Music > http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html > 714 9th Avenue West > Ashland, WI 54806 > 715-682-9362 > > -- > Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: New frets
Well, Dan, there's that special tomato knot that defies comprehension standing between me and HIP in this case. Can you imagine doing that w/ those monster 1mm 1st and 2nd frets? Brrr. I don't know if anyone answered the question on how often to change frets but I remember Jacob Herringmann saying he swapped them all out before concerts. A lot of work tho I'm sure it gets easier as time goes by. He uses singles as far as I've ever seen. But there is nothing quite as clean-sounding as a newly fretted instrument. Grant Tomlinson taught that we should have a good cradle for the lute to work with changing frets and expect to take your time. Then he mentioned Jacob did it all sitting on the couch, lickety split. Me, I'm an all afternoon kinda guy. Even new doubled frets at their best never quite sounded as clean as singles --just my opinion and I'm sure there are pros who really have it down. Personally, I think the extended surface absorbs the high frequencies. Same goes for old single frets. Sean On Feb 18, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Daniel Winheld wrote: Do it twice! HEY! It's the SINGLE frets that ain't HIP - look at that damn picture again- (you know, the one with the boreless Oboe Muto) Is there any known historical information about single frets? Maybe Mace mentioned them? Don't want to make trouble- just askin' Dan Honestly, it works though it doesn't seem HIP whatsoever. The advantage being you only need to replace one half (always take off the more worn fret and replace it w/ a new one on the bridge side). Anyway, I've done the double fret experiment for a few years on my main ax. It has worked, I've learned a few things but I'm ready to come back to the single fret club. Sean -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
Yes, double frets are historical, but not two separate frets tied in the same spot. The historical double frets are tied with one piece of gut (I used to know how to make the knot!), but you can't remove just one of them. Everybody knew the single frets were unHIP, but so much easier, and made the tone clearer, too. Best, CS. >>> Daniel Winheld 2/18/2010 3:13 PM >>> >Do it twice! HEY! It's the SINGLE frets that ain't HIP - look at that damn picture again- (you know, the one with the boreless Oboe Muto) Is there any known historical information about single frets? Maybe Mace mentioned them? Don't want to make trouble- just askin' Dan >Honestly, it works though it doesn't seem HIP whatsoever. The >advantage being you only need to replace one half (always take off >the more worn fret and replace it w/ a new one on the bridge side). > >Anyway, I've done the double fret experiment for a few years on my >main ax. It has worked, I've learned a few things but I'm ready to >come back to the single fret club. > >Sean > -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
[LUTE] Re: New frets
And I thought the singed spots in the lacquer on my 10c. were bad! We
missed so many good photo-ops back in the old days! Some day,
though, everyone will have their entire lives on video.
Best, and keep on playin'
CS
>>> David Tayler 2/18/2010 3:16 PM >>>
This is the knot I mostly use, I saw it in Germany in th '70s so it
has been in use for a while.
Once, when tying this know, I was burning the end with a lighter, and
the lighter had an unusually long flame, which instantly incinerated
all seven of my long strings on the theorbo.
Oh for a photo of that moment.
dt
At 06:20 AM 2/18/2010, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>The breakthrough for me came when I changed my method of fret
knotting.
>I used to tie a slip knot ("granny knot" - a reef knot with the
>second turn the wrong way). Works fine for thin frets, and with
>smooth-finished gut, but otherwise the slip knot is not so willing
>to slip. So I tried the method someone suggested to me (Pat
>O'Brien?) which is to tie a single overhand knot near the end and
>pass the free end through it - the ultimate slip knot, not really a
>knot at all.
>Surprisingly, the gut has enough friction that when you pull this up
>it holds without slipping back, so you tighten it nearer the nut
>than you want to end up (a choix), trim off the free end and burn it
>down to lock it, then slide the fret up to where you want it. It's
>very neat, too.
>But as for double frets.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Martin
>
>Martyn Hodgson wrote:
>>
>>The gut should be pre-stretched before fitting. Mace (1676 p 69)
>>confirms this and provides good practical advice:
>>
>>' And you will find, that the first Fret, will be ever the
hardest to
>>Tye well on, for two Reasons.
>>First, because it is the Thickest, therefore not so ready to ply,
and
>>stretch.
>>2sly. Because there is but a little narrower room above It, by
reason
>>it is so near the Nutt: Therefore you must be the more careful ,
to
>>stretch it very well, before you settle It.'
>>
>>He also recommends tying it higher (ie to wards the nut) and
stretching
>>by forcing down to its alotted position a number of times: 'Thus
do it
>>three or four times, till at last you find it stiff,'
>>
>>Finally he suggests a second knot to prevent any possible
slipping:
>>'... you are (after all stretching) to Tye it, of another hard
Knot,
>>and then it is firmly fast'.
>>
>>MH
>>--- On Wed, 17/2/10, Christopher Stetson
wrote:
>>
>> From: Christopher Stetson
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets
>> To: "Lute List"
>> Date: Wednesday, 17 February, 2010, 20:35
>>
>> Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet
again
>>put
>> off refretting.
>> While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or
>>keeping
>> the 1st fret really tight?
>> Best to all,
>> Chris.
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>To get on or off this list see list information at
>>[1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
[LUTE] Re: New frets
This is the knot I mostly use, I saw it in Germany in th '70s so it
has been in use for a while.
Once, when tying this know, I was burning the end with a lighter, and
the lighter had an unusually long flame, which instantly incinerated
all seven of my long strings on the theorbo.
Oh for a photo of that moment.
dt
At 06:20 AM 2/18/2010, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>The breakthrough for me came when I changed my method of fret knotting.
>I used to tie a slip knot ("granny knot" - a reef knot with the
>second turn the wrong way). Works fine for thin frets, and with
>smooth-finished gut, but otherwise the slip knot is not so willing
>to slip. So I tried the method someone suggested to me (Pat
>O'Brien?) which is to tie a single overhand knot near the end and
>pass the free end through it - the ultimate slip knot, not really a
>knot at all.
>Surprisingly, the gut has enough friction that when you pull this up
>it holds without slipping back, so you tighten it nearer the nut
>than you want to end up (a choix), trim off the free end and burn it
>down to lock it, then slide the fret up to where you want it. It's
>very neat, too.
>But as for double frets.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Martin
>
>Martyn Hodgson wrote:
>>
>>The gut should be pre-stretched before fitting. Mace (1676 p 69)
>>confirms this and provides good practical advice:
>>
>>' And you will find, that the first Fret, will be ever the hardest to
>>Tye well on, for two Reasons.
>>First, because it is the Thickest, therefore not so ready to ply, and
>>stretch.
>>2sly. Because there is but a little narrower room above It, by reason
>>it is so near the Nutt: Therefore you must be the more careful , to
>>stretch it very well, before you settle It.'
>>
>>He also recommends tying it higher (ie to wards the nut) and stretching
>>by forcing down to its alotted position a number of times: 'Thus do it
>>three or four times, till at last you find it stiff,'
>>
>>Finally he suggests a second knot to prevent any possible slipping:
>>'... you are (after all stretching) to Tye it, of another hard Knot,
>>and then it is firmly fast'.
>>
>>MH
>>--- On Wed, 17/2/10, Christopher Stetson wrote:
>>
>> From: Christopher Stetson
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets
>> To: "Lute List"
>> Date: Wednesday, 17 February, 2010, 20:35
>>
>> Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet again
>>put
>> off refretting.
>> While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or
>>keeping
>> the 1st fret really tight?
>> Best to all,
>> Chris.
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>To get on or off this list see list information at
>>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
[LUTE] Re: New frets
>Do it twice! HEY! It's the SINGLE frets that ain't HIP - look at that damn picture again- (you know, the one with the boreless Oboe Muto) Is there any known historical information about single frets? Maybe Mace mentioned them? Don't want to make trouble- just askin' Dan >Honestly, it works though it doesn't seem HIP whatsoever. The >advantage being you only need to replace one half (always take off >the more worn fret and replace it w/ a new one on the bridge side). > >Anyway, I've done the double fret experiment for a few years on my >main ax. It has worked, I've learned a few things but I'm ready to >come back to the single fret club. > >Sean > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
It's very neat, too. But as for double frets. Do it twice! Honestly, it works though it doesn't seem HIP whatsoever. The advantage being you only need to replace one half (always take off the more worn fret and replace it w/ a new one on the bridge side). Anyway, I've done the double fret experiment for a few years on my main ax. It has worked, I've learned a few things but I'm ready to come back to the single fret club. Sean Best wishes, Martin Martyn Hodgson wrote: The gut should be pre-stretched before fitting. Mace (1676 p 69) confirms this and provides good practical advice: ' And you will find, that the first Fret, will be ever the hardest to Tye well on, for two Reasons. First, because it is the Thickest, therefore not so ready to ply, and stretch. 2sly. Because there is but a little narrower room above It, by reason it is so near the Nutt: Therefore you must be the more careful , to stretch it very well, before you settle It.' He also recommends tying it higher (ie to wards the nut) and stretching by forcing down to its alotted position a number of times: 'Thus do it three or four times, till at last you find it stiff,' Finally he suggests a second knot to prevent any possible slipping: '... you are (after all stretching) to Tye it, of another hard Knot, and then it is firmly fast'. MH --- On Wed, 17/2/10, Christopher Stetson wrote: From: Christopher Stetson Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets To: "Lute List" Date: Wednesday, 17 February, 2010, 20:35 Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet again put off refretting. While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or keeping the 1st fret really tight? Best to all, Chris. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
Hi All,
The breakthrough for me came when I changed my method of fret knotting.
I used to tie a slip knot ("granny knot" - a reef knot with the second
turn the wrong way). Works fine for thin frets, and with
smooth-finished gut, but otherwise the slip knot is not so willing to
slip. So I tried the method someone suggested to me (Pat O'Brien?)
which is to tie a single overhand knot near the end and pass the free
end through it - the ultimate slip knot, not really a knot at all.
Surprisingly, the gut has enough friction that when you pull this up it
holds without slipping back, so you tighten it nearer the nut than you
want to end up (a choix), trim off the free end and burn it down to lock
it, then slide the fret up to where you want it. It's very neat, too.
But as for double frets.
Best wishes,
Martin
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
The gut should be pre-stretched before fitting. Mace (1676 p 69)
confirms this and provides good practical advice:
' And you will find, that the first Fret, will be ever the hardest to
Tye well on, for two Reasons.
First, because it is the Thickest, therefore not so ready to ply, and
stretch.
2sly. Because there is but a little narrower room above It, by reason
it is so near the Nutt: Therefore you must be the more careful , to
stretch it very well, before you settle It.'
He also recommends tying it higher (ie to wards the nut) and stretching
by forcing down to its alotted position a number of times: 'Thus do it
three or four times, till at last you find it stiff,'
Finally he suggests a second knot to prevent any possible slipping:
'... you are (after all stretching) to Tye it, of another hard Knot,
and then it is firmly fast'.
MH
--- On Wed, 17/2/10, Christopher Stetson wrote:
From: Christopher Stetson
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets
To: "Lute List"
Date: Wednesday, 17 February, 2010, 20:35
Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet again
put
off refretting.
While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or
keeping
the 1st fret really tight?
Best to all,
Chris.
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] frottola
what a contrast! "Io non compro più speranza" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx5GFW5lJg0 http://video.libero.it/app/play?id=f2d31fbf4ef48f5f7a9e76cc695fd75c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
The gut should be pre-stretched before fitting. Mace (1676 p 69) confirms this and provides good practical advice: ' And you will find, that the first Fret, will be ever the hardest to Tye well on, for two Reasons. First, because it is the Thickest, therefore not so ready to ply, and stretch. 2sly. Because there is but a little narrower room above It, by reason it is so near the Nutt: Therefore you must be the more careful , to stretch it very well, before you settle It.' He also recommends tying it higher (ie to wards the nut) and stretching by forcing down to its alotted position a number of times: 'Thus do it three or four times, till at last you find it stiff,' Finally he suggests a second knot to prevent any possible slipping: '... you are (after all stretching) to Tye it, of another hard Knot, and then it is firmly fast'. MH --- On Wed, 17/2/10, Christopher Stetson wrote: From: Christopher Stetson Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets To: "Lute List" Date: Wednesday, 17 February, 2010, 20:35 Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet again put off refretting. While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or keeping the 1st fret really tight? Best to all, Chris. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
>>> One detail that jumps out at me is the fruit bowl. It's a Chinese >>> bowl, with calligraphy on the side. There was a great demand for China wares, made in China and Japan, in the West. There was a whole industry set up which made their wares specifically for the Western markets. With different models and designs than those for the home markets. It was transported in crates of tea; a safe way. Stil today, in ship wrecks, divers find nice cups. There's quite a market for those, too. So a Chinese bowl in a 17th~19th century painting should not be a surprise.The owner probably bought it at his local market. And don't forget there was a whole industry of imitation China wares in the West as well, and some are really hard to tell apart: same model, same design, but where was it made: Arita or Delft? David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Help in reading a French text fragment
Thanks Val and Dennis! Now I know, what should be the mood in that piece! :-) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
