[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
Here are a few more--even an oldie! or habit maketh no monk; ne weringe of gilte spurres maketh no knight. [1387 T. Usk Testament of Love in Chaucer Complete Works (1897) II. xi.] Trueth quoth Fawnia, but all that weare Cooles [cowls] are not Monkes. [1588 R. Greene Pandosto IV. 289] They should be good men, their affairs as righteous; But all hoods make not monks. [1613 Shakespeare Henry VIII iii. i. 23] dt Cucullus=also a small cucu :) Feste's famous line from Twelf Night [1]http://tinyurl.com/yhmjd29 dt At 10:59 AM 3/12/2010, you wrote: Hello Suzanne: Dowland's remark is in his famously dyspeptic introduction to A Pilgrimes Solace (1612), which contains some of my very favorite music. Cucullus non facit monachum: The cowl does not make the monk Ron Andrico [2]www.mignarda.com > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:47:25 -0700 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: suzanne.angev...@gmail.com > Subject: [LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias > > > > Ron Andrico wrote: > > Personally, I think people need to relax and heed Dowland's harsh words > > for those whose musical skill lies only in their finger's ends. > > Ron, thanks for this. But I don't think I actually know that quote. > Could you point me to it? Thanks. > > Suzanne > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. [1]Sign up now. -- References 1. [4]http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:W LMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 -- References 1. http://tinyurl.com/yhmjd29 2. http://www.mignarda.com/ 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
Cucullus=also a small cucu :) Feste's famous line from Twelf Night [1]http://tinyurl.com/yhmjd29 dt At 10:59 AM 3/12/2010, you wrote: Hello Suzanne: Dowland's remark is in his famously dyspeptic introduction to A Pilgrimes Solace (1612), which contains some of my very favorite music. Cucullus non facit monachum: The cowl does not make the monk Ron Andrico [2]www.mignarda.com > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:47:25 -0700 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: suzanne.angev...@gmail.com > Subject: [LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias > > > > Ron Andrico wrote: > > Personally, I think people need to relax and heed Dowland's harsh words > > for those whose musical skill lies only in their finger's ends. > > Ron, thanks for this. But I don't think I actually know that quote. > Could you point me to it? Thanks. > > Suzanne > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. [1]Sign up now. -- References 1. [4]http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:W LMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 -- References 1. http://tinyurl.com/yhmjd29 2. http://www.mignarda.com/ 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
On Mar 12, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: Hello Howard & All: I have to say that contrapuntal lines CAN actually connect at a tempo slower than today's espresso-driven pace if the player can relax and resist the urge to push. This is an important point along w/ Howard's "But the problem isn't the listener's ability to hear the lines; it's the player's ability to play them as if they were distinct polyphonic lines instead of intervals and chords with stuff in between. " I've been working on some Borrono and Paladin intabulations lately and it's all wonderfully rhythmical but to give it that rhythmic power requires a lot of stamina in the left hand. The breakthrough for me came when I highlighted the vocal lines and played them as though a voice were singing them. It slows me down, allows the voices to speak and I can enjoy what is happening all the more. They may eventually regain some of their vocal speed but if they don't I won't worry. Jannequin probably laughed off any lutenists seriously trying to play his program chansons anyway. It didn't stop Paladin, Francesco, LeRoy and Borrono from trying. Francesco and his contemporaries must have understood that their purchasers had varying abilities and would play them back at varying tempoes [sp?]. Recall that the backbone of this composed music (fantasies/ricercars and chansons) is polyphony not rhythmical drive. Bring out that backbone and you have the essence of their music. Of course one shouldn't play those light, love "wink wink" chansons as somber motets but there are ways to lighten your touch and phrasing to give it the illusion of light-heartedness w/out (before) advancing the tempo. This, btw, is an dimension of chanson intabulation that the fantasies lack, namely, for you, the lutenist, to give it the ideas expressed in the poem. One more complexity of the music but one that gives you a direction in your strategy of interpretation. my 1 cent w/ a nickel from R & H. Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
60 is a very good tactus for many of Francesco's pieces for me. But that is just me. Quite a few of the pieces roll along smoothly in the 56-64 range. There is no reason whatsoever to to feel that one tempo is historically accurate. As for whether we live in a caffeinated, jet set society, it seems pretty clear that since we don't as a general practice employ the "top gear" for ornamentation compared to cornetto and recorder players, that we can't really draw a conclusion from that unless we are fly more or drink more coffee and tea than they do :) dt At 10:44 AM 3/12/2010, you wrote: >>tempos chosen to allow the contrapuntal lines to connect -- >>if the music is taken too slowly, it becomes disjointed as >>individual notes die away before the next notes continue the line. > >This betrays a rather low opinion of the modern listener's ability >to actually hear and follow contrapuntal lines. I don't think >having a note die away before the next one in its line is heard >prevents one from hearing it as a continuous voice. Just as in >social dialog, different voices take *turns*, not all talking at >once. Its partly that gracious interaction of the lines that you >need the space and time to appreciate. And at least this modern >listener can follow and appreciate polyphony doing that in lute >music without the sound being utterly continuous. > >Suzanne > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: professorship for lute open in Bremen
Hi all, there was some confusion about what "application papers as usual" actually means. I asked the secretary, and here's what she replied, in English (my rendering): "I'd expect a biography (artistic as well as pedagogic) with photograph, diplomas (copies only), list of publications, discography, concert reviews, possibly references. Applications are expected ASAP. Aspirants from the US may apply via e-mail for a start, as snail-mail usually takes a bit of time, but will have to hand in their application papers later, at any rate." Best wishes, Mathias ---Ursprüngliche Nachricht--- Von: An: "Mathias Rösel" Betreff: AW: Bewerbungsunterlagen Datum: 12. Mar 2010 16:14 Ich würde folgende Unterlagen erwarten: Lebenslauf (künstlerisch und pädagogisch) mit Foto, Zeugnisse (nur Kopien), Veröffentlichungen, Discographie, Rezensionen verschiedener Konzerte, evtl. noch Empfehlungen Dann soll er sich man fix melden. Er kann - weil der Postweg nach Amerika etwas weit ist - sich vorab zunächst per e-mail bewerben, muss die anderen Sachen aber auf jeden Fall auch einreichen. Almut Heibült Hochschule für Künste Bremen Fachbereich Musik Dechanatstraße 13 - 15 D-28195 Bremen Tel.: 0421 - 9595-1506 Fax: 0421 - 9595-2506 mailto: almut.heibu...@hfk-bremen.de internet: http://www.hfk-bremen.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
I am not exactly responding to Susanne's message, but making a related comment. I have been playing through and home-recording Denis Gaultier's "La rhétorique des dieux" on my 11-course. To guide me I have Louis Pernot's recording of this work, which I have often found very helpful (though I find his tone rather harsh--does anyone else?). But, generally speaking, I simply cannot play these pieces at the same tempos (or tempi for the Italian purists, or tempora for the Latin purists) as he does, which I find very frustrating. I don't know how one works up to those speeds, unless one plays a piece over and over with a metronome, gradually increasing the number of beats per minute, which I actually do, though before long I seem to reach a limit that I can't manage to surpass no matter how long I practice. I assume that Mr. Pernot knows very well what he is doing and is playing these pieces at the speeds at which they were intended to be played. In a related vein, I have been working through Elias Mertel's "Novus hortus musicalis" on my 10-course, and I generally play the pieces as fast as I comfortably can, though I suspect that I am playing practically all of them too slowly on account of my technical limitations. Any suggestions for improving speed or advice on determining the proper tempo for a piece would be much appreciated. Best regards to all, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Suzanne Angevine" To: "Lute List" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: [LUTE] tempos in Francesco Fantasias Yesterday I got out a Francesco Fantasia I hadn't played in awhile. Its one of the easier ones, since I'm not that advanced a player. But I thoroughly enjoyed playing it - the counterpoint, the expressiveness of it. Later in the day I listened to a CD of a big name player doing Francesco pieces. What struck me most was the utter contrast between what I had enjoyed about playing the music, and what I heard. Not just on the same Fantasia, but almost the entire CD was BRIGHT, and very PERKY sounding. In thinking about it, I felt that this effect was due almost entirely to the fast tempos chosen. Now this player has exceptional technique, and can play fast and cleanly. And it is to be admitted that the CD is rather old, and may no longer represent the player's point of view on Francesco exactly. But it got me thinking about tempos. Someone on this list recently commented that folks generally try to play too fast. Is there some actual musicological evidence somewhere that says what tempos should be used? Or do moderns just play fast because we live in a fast paced world, and playing well fast shows off our skill? A moderate tempo on the Fantasia in question allows some time and space for expression of the music to bloom, but a fast, perky tempo just makes it sound like pyrotechnic display, not what would earn a player the name of "il divino". So, any musicological evidence for proper tempos in Francesco's music? Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
On Mar 12, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Suzanne Angevine wrote: >> tempos chosen to allow the contrapuntal lines to connect -- >> if the music is taken too slowly, it becomes disjointed as >> individual notes die away before the next notes continue the line. > > This betrays a rather low opinion of the modern listener's ability to > actually hear and follow contrapuntal lines. The only modern listener I'm talking about is me, so if I'm betraying a low opinion of my "ability," I'm entitled to have a low opinion of it. But the problem isn't the listener's ability to hear the lines; it's the player's ability to play them as if they were distinct polyphonic lines instead of intervals and chords with stuff in between. A good many amateur players do the latter when they think they're doing the former, and the music dies on the vine. It may be that I can make sense out of it, but that doesn't make it good playing. After all, I can understand this sentence: "After the death of the Donor, no trustee to or from whom or to or from whose spouse or issue a current or future payment or distribution of property, income or principal may be made or withheld under any provisions of this instrument shall be permitted or required by the provisions hereof to vote upon or participate in any action taken thereon." But it's still an atrocious sentence. > Just as in social dialog, different voices take *turns*, not all talking at > once. But in a lute fantasy, those different voices mostly talk two or three at a time, which is not how we converse unless we're on TV sports talk shows, so the analogy is not useful: we can't understand three people talking to us simultaneously. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
Hello Suzanne: Dowland's remark is in his famously dyspeptic introduction to A Pilgrimes Solace (1612), which contains some of my very favorite music. Cucullus non facit monachum: The cowl does not make the monk Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:47:25 -0700 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: suzanne.angev...@gmail.com > Subject: [LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias > > > > Ron Andrico wrote: > > Personally, I think people need to relax and heed Dowland's harsh words > > for those whose musical skill lies only in their finger's ends. > > Ron, thanks for this. But I don't think I actually know that quote. > Could you point me to it? Thanks. > > Suzanne > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. [1]Sign up now. -- References 1. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
Ron Andrico wrote: Personally, I think people need to relax and heed Dowland's harsh words for those whose musical skill lies only in their finger's ends. Ron, thanks for this. But I don't think I actually know that quote. Could you point me to it? Thanks. Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
tempos chosen to allow the contrapuntal lines to connect -- if the music is taken too slowly, it becomes disjointed as individual notes die away before the next notes continue the line. This betrays a rather low opinion of the modern listener's ability to actually hear and follow contrapuntal lines. I don't think having a note die away before the next one in its line is heard prevents one from hearing it as a continuous voice. Just as in social dialog, different voices take *turns*, not all talking at once. Its partly that gracious interaction of the lines that you need the space and time to appreciate. And at least this modern listener can follow and appreciate polyphony doing that in lute music without the sound being utterly continuous. Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
Hello Howard & All: I have to say that contrapuntal lines CAN actually connect at a tempo slower than today's espresso-driven pace if the player can relax and resist the urge to push. Sure, there are fantasias that are instrumental in nature and demand a production that highlights the activation and decay of a plucked string. But the music of Francesco's time appears to be mostly influenced by vocal polyphony. The comment that one should be able to sing the lines is a very important reminder, and that sense of line sounds less than musical if needlessly rushed. Personally, I think people need to relax and heed Dowland's harsh words for those whose musical skill lies only in their finger's ends. My two cents, and still not enough for a cup of espresso. Ron Andrico www/mignarda.com > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:15:30 -0800 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: howardpos...@ca.rr.com > Subject: [LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Suzanne Angevine wrote: > > > Yesterday I got out a Francesco Fantasia I hadn't played in awhile. Its one of the easier ones, since I'm not that advanced a player. But I thoroughly enjoyed playing it - the counterpoint, the expressiveness of it. Later in the day I listened to a CD of a big name player doing Francesco pieces. What struck me most was the utter contrast between what I had enjoyed about playing the music, and what I heard. Not just on the same Fantasia, but almost the entire CD was BRIGHT, and very PERKY sounding. In thinking about it, I felt that this effect was due almost entirely to the fast tempos chosen. Now this player has exceptional technique, and can play fast and cleanly. And it is to be admitted that the CD is rather old, and may no longer represent the player's point of view on Francesco exactly. > > > I you're talking about Paul O'Dette's 1986 Astree CD, what you're hearing is not just brightness and perkiness, but tempos chosen to allow the contrapuntal lines to connect -- if the music is taken too slowly, it becomes disjointed as individual notes die away before the next notes continue the line. With the basic flow established, Paul is also inclined to stop a note so that the next one is emphasized, just as it would be if a singer made an entrance after a measure's rest. You might think it sounds perky, but the result is pure clarity. I remember wrestling with Francesco and then hearing how obvious and logical he made it sound. If you have slower tempos in mind -- and most amateurs do, since their conception of the music tends to be limited by what their hands are capable of doing -- it takes some getting used to. > > > But it got me thinking about tempos. Someone on this list recently commented that folks generally try to play too fast. Is there some actual musicological evidence somewhere that says what tempos should be used? Or do moderns just play fast because we live in a fast paced world, and playing well fast shows off our skill? A moderate tempo on the Fantasia in question allows some time and space for expression of the music to bloom, but a fast, perky tempo just makes it sound like pyrotechnic display, not what would earn a player the name of "il divino". So, any musicological evidence for proper tempos in Francesco's music? > > Certainly nothing that wouldn't allow for a broad range of tempi in a Francesco fantasy. > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. [1]Learn More. -- References 1. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_1
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
On Mar 12, 2010, at 10:15 AM, howard posner wrote: > I you're talking about Paul O'Dette's 1986 Astree CD, It should have been "If you're talking" etc. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Suzanne Angevine wrote: > Yesterday I got out a Francesco Fantasia I hadn't played in awhile. Its one > of the easier ones, since I'm not that advanced a player. But I thoroughly > enjoyed playing it - the counterpoint, the expressiveness of it. Later in > the day I listened to a CD of a big name player doing Francesco pieces. What > struck me most was the utter contrast between what I had enjoyed about > playing the music, and what I heard. Not just on the same Fantasia, but > almost the entire CD was BRIGHT, and very PERKY sounding. In thinking about > it, I felt that this effect was due almost entirely to the fast tempos > chosen. Now this player has exceptional technique, and can play fast and > cleanly. And it is to be admitted that the CD is rather old, and may no > longer represent the player's point of view on Francesco exactly. I you're talking about Paul O'Dette's 1986 Astree CD, what you're hearing is not just brightness and perkiness, but tempos chosen to allow the contrapuntal lines to connect -- if the music is taken too slowly, it becomes disjointed as individual notes die away before the next notes continue the line. With the basic flow established, Paul is also inclined to stop a note so that the next one is emphasized, just as it would be if a singer made an entrance after a measure's rest. You might think it sounds perky, but the result is pure clarity. I remember wrestling with Francesco and then hearing how obvious and logical he made it sound. If you have slower tempos in mind -- and most amateurs do, since their conception of the music tends to be limited by what their hands are capable of doing -- it takes some getting used to. > But it got me thinking about tempos. Someone on this list recently commented > that folks generally try to play too fast. Is there some actual > musicological evidence somewhere that says what tempos should be used? Or do > moderns just play fast because we live in a fast paced world, and playing > well fast shows off our skill? A moderate tempo on the Fantasia in question > allows some time and space for expression of the music to bloom, but a fast, > perky tempo just makes it sound like pyrotechnic display, not what would earn > a player the name of "il divino". So, any musicological evidence for proper > tempos in Francesco's music? Certainly nothing that wouldn't allow for a broad range of tempi in a Francesco fantasy. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Tempos in Francesco Fantasias
Dear Suzanne, I think you make a very important point. It is tempting to play pieces as fast as we comfortably can, even if a slower speed is desirable. I remember Diana Poulton once talking about the speed of Lachrimae and other lute music, and how we live in a jet age, when everything has to go so fast. She said that people in the past generally had a slower life style, and the speed they performed music might well have reflected that. With regard to Francesco's fantasies, it is noticeable that the tempo of a solo slows down when someone else adds in a second lute part by Joanne Matelart. Ness no. 40 is a good example of this. If I were you, I would stay with the speeds you feel are best, let the music breathe, and savour the sound of each note, just as you might savour a good wine. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Angevine Sent: 12 March 2010 17:27 To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] tempos in Francesco Fantasias Yesterday I got out a Francesco Fantasia I hadn't played in awhile. Its one of the easier ones, since I'm not that advanced a player. But I thoroughly enjoyed playing it - the counterpoint, the expressiveness of it. Later in the day I listened to a CD of a big name player doing Francesco pieces. What struck me most was the utter contrast between what I had enjoyed about playing the music, and what I heard. Not just on the same Fantasia, but almost the entire CD was BRIGHT, and very PERKY sounding. In thinking about it, I felt that this effect was due almost entirely to the fast tempos chosen. Now this player has exceptional technique, and can play fast and cleanly. And it is to be admitted that the CD is rather old, and may no longer represent the player's point of view on Francesco exactly. But it got me thinking about tempos. Someone on this list recently commented that folks generally try to play too fast. Is there some actual musicological evidence somewhere that says what tempos should be used? Or do moderns just play fast because we live in a fast paced world, and playing well fast shows off our skill? A moderate tempo on the Fantasia in question allows some time and space for expression of the music to bloom, but a fast, perky tempo just makes it sound like pyrotechnic display, not what would earn a player the name of "il divino". So, any musicological evidence for proper tempos in Francesco's music? Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
Try to sing the lines! Than perhaps you feel the right tempo! W. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Sauvage Valéry Gesendet: Freitag, 12. März 2010 19:00 An: Lute List; Suzanne Angevine Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias The only thing I have in mind when I play a fantasia is my own fantasy... No rules for tempo for such pieces (apart a few based on vocal models, where you can follow the original song tempo) My 2 cts... Val - Original Message - From: "Suzanne Angevine" To: "Lute List" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 6:26 PM Subject: [LUTE] tempos in Francesco Fantasias > > Yesterday I got out a Francesco Fantasia I hadn't played in awhile. > Its > one of the easier ones, since I'm not that advanced a player. But I > thoroughly enjoyed playing it - the counterpoint, the expressiveness of > it. Later in the day I listened to a CD of a big name player doing > Francesco pieces. What struck me most was the utter contrast between what > I had enjoyed about playing the music, and what I heard. Not just on the > same Fantasia, but almost the entire CD was BRIGHT, and very PERKY > sounding. In thinking about it, I felt that this effect was due almost > entirely to the fast tempos chosen. Now this player has exceptional > technique, and can play fast and cleanly. And it is to be admitted that > the CD is rather old, and may no longer represent the player's point of > view on Francesco exactly. But it got me thinking about tempos. Someone > on this list recently commented that folks generally try to play too fast. > Is there some actual musicological evidence somewhere that says what > tempos should be used? Or do moderns just play fast because we live in a > fast paced world, and playing well fast shows off our skill? A moderate > tempo on the Fantasia in question allows some time and space for > expression of the music to bloom, but a fast, perky tempo just makes it > sound like pyrotechnic display, not what would earn a player the name of > "il divino". So, any musicological evidence for proper tempos in > Francesco's music? > > Suzanne > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
The only thing I have in mind when I play a fantasia is my own fantasy... No rules for tempo for such pieces (apart a few based on vocal models, where you can follow the original song tempo) My 2 cts... Val - Original Message - From: "Suzanne Angevine" To: "Lute List" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 6:26 PM Subject: [LUTE] tempos in Francesco Fantasias Yesterday I got out a Francesco Fantasia I hadn't played in awhile. Its one of the easier ones, since I'm not that advanced a player. But I thoroughly enjoyed playing it - the counterpoint, the expressiveness of it. Later in the day I listened to a CD of a big name player doing Francesco pieces. What struck me most was the utter contrast between what I had enjoyed about playing the music, and what I heard. Not just on the same Fantasia, but almost the entire CD was BRIGHT, and very PERKY sounding. In thinking about it, I felt that this effect was due almost entirely to the fast tempos chosen. Now this player has exceptional technique, and can play fast and cleanly. And it is to be admitted that the CD is rather old, and may no longer represent the player's point of view on Francesco exactly. But it got me thinking about tempos. Someone on this list recently commented that folks generally try to play too fast. Is there some actual musicological evidence somewhere that says what tempos should be used? Or do moderns just play fast because we live in a fast paced world, and playing well fast shows off our skill? A moderate tempo on the Fantasia in question allows some time and space for expression of the music to bloom, but a fast, perky tempo just makes it sound like pyrotechnic display, not what would earn a player the name of "il divino". So, any musicological evidence for proper tempos in Francesco's music? Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] tempos in Francesco Fantasias
Yesterday I got out a Francesco Fantasia I hadn't played in awhile. Its one of the easier ones, since I'm not that advanced a player. But I thoroughly enjoyed playing it - the counterpoint, the expressiveness of it. Later in the day I listened to a CD of a big name player doing Francesco pieces. What struck me most was the utter contrast between what I had enjoyed about playing the music, and what I heard. Not just on the same Fantasia, but almost the entire CD was BRIGHT, and very PERKY sounding. In thinking about it, I felt that this effect was due almost entirely to the fast tempos chosen. Now this player has exceptional technique, and can play fast and cleanly. And it is to be admitted that the CD is rather old, and may no longer represent the player's point of view on Francesco exactly. But it got me thinking about tempos. Someone on this list recently commented that folks generally try to play too fast. Is there some actual musicological evidence somewhere that says what tempos should be used? Or do moderns just play fast because we live in a fast paced world, and playing well fast shows off our skill? A moderate tempo on the Fantasia in question allows some time and space for expression of the music to bloom, but a fast, perky tempo just makes it sound like pyrotechnic display, not what would earn a player the name of "il divino". So, any musicological evidence for proper tempos in Francesco's music? Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Jew of Malta: Barabas' disguise as French lute-player
With close to no Jews in England after the expulsion of Jews in 1290, and some 70 years after Macchiavelli's death, the plot and characters of Marlowe's play were probably taken to be meant allegorically in 1592. As for religious turmoil, the only real clues could be Elizabeth's allowing the protestant Church to prevail and the troubles with the Spaniards. I should take Barabas in disguise of a French lute player, actually, as disguise of the Spanish and their all-too-present strumming of the strings. -- Mathias "Stuart Walsh" schrieb: > Barabas, at one point in the play is disguised as a French lute-player. > Is there any significance in the choice of bring French? > > > Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] SPAM: update newsletter Belgian Lute Society
Dear all, I just put the .pdf -versions of our newsletters 2008 online. http://www.lute-academy.be/CMSimple/en/?Publications:Newsletter:2008 Texts are in Dutch and French. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
