[LUTE] Re: Ghostview/Ghostscript
On 22.05.2010 18:06, Monica Hall wrote: This is the message which gives the details of the Ghostview program. I have eliminated the name of the person who sent it me in case he is not on the list now and prefers to be anonymous. Monica: The most up-to-date files are listed on the server of the University of Wisconsin. Here: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/ As of today the recommended release is GPL Ghostscript 8.61. Better have a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/ghostscript/ Rainer adS PS Currently both have the same version :) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: playing technique of baroque mandolin
Stuart Walsh wrote: I just can't imagine how you get a loud, full sound playing the instrument fingerstyle when the instrument has such a tiny body. (But with a plectrum the instrument truly chirps). I think it was Stewart McCoy who, in a previous discussion of this same subject, said that mandolino strings at that short string length are going to feel like steel bars...and they do. So the technique of getting a sound from the strings of a lute or guitar or wire-string instrument (e.g. English guitar) wouldn't be any use at all - it would surely be far too gentle? Well, not for me, anyway. Well I came across this youtube video of Alex Timmerman playing an Alemanda by Ceccherini (it's also in Tyler's book). Played with gusto! Sounds forceful and loud - and punteado/fingerstyle. Dunno how he does it. Nails? Stuart Jake Shimabukuro (modern uke virtuoso) gets a great, full sound but he seems to have an odd technique based around the RH thumb - nothing like early guitar or lute technique. )All those medieval depictions of gitterns have the celestial folk playing with plectra too.) So what 's the secret? Nails? Or some unusual aspect of construction that enables players to use punteado style successfully? I'd be really interested to hear/see the instrument played (punteado) - mp3, youtube, anything. A little demo - with fingers, plectrum, with other instruments?? Stuart -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Susanne Herre Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 6:38 AM To: EUGENE BRAIG IV; Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: playing technique of baroque mandolin Thank you Eugene! Is there in fact any iconography of baroque opera showing a mandolin player at all? Yes, if you play with the quill you will hear more higher harmonics because the section which hits the string is not as large as if you play with your finger... Yes, if you play with thumb-out and want to hit both strings of one course you have to play also with a bit of your nail. That happens automatically, I made this experience as well. All the best, Susanne - Original Message - From: [1]EUGENE BRAIG IV To: [2]Susanne Herre ; [3]Lute List Cc: [4]davide.rebuffa Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 3:35 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] playing technique of baroque mandolin I agree with Davide. I'm just aware of no baroque-era iconography that implies plectra/quills on 4th-tuned, gut strung mandolins. If it were common in the pit for obligati parts, I would think plectrum use would be at least occasionally evident in the sketchy iconography. I also use quills and more modern plectra on early and modern Neapolitan mandolins, even on a gut-strung mandolino Toscano, so I am accustomed to using plectra. I don't really gain appreciable volume applying quill to my 6-course mandolin/o, but in using quill, I do lose any bass response I get by using my fingertips. That said, I use a combination of flesh and nail on my mandolin/o. Again, I'm just not aware of any good written references to technique on 4th-tuned mandolins (or reference to quill use on same) until they get only peripheral mention in the literature for Neapolitan mandolins of the latter half of the 1700s. Best, Eugene - Original Message - From: Susanne Herre Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010 3:00 am Subject: [LUTE] playing technique of baroque mandolin To: "davide.rebuffa" , Lute List > > Dear Davide, > > Thank you for your comments! > > I still think we can not be so sure about certain things because > we don't > have much evidence. > > > - to my knowledge - there is no evidence at all that it > could be played > > with a quill before the late XVIIIth century. > > Do you have any evidence against quill technique e.g. in operas? > It is possible to play with a quill... > > I know about some paintings which show the finger technique (all > in all we > don't have much, have we?) but I also saw one picture (English) > where there > seems to be a kind of plectrum. But it is an anonymous picture > without any > year. Also I have seen a still life by Baschenis where there is > a quill and > I don't believe that the violin, the harp or the lute on this > picture is > played with it... > > I can't say that I have much experience of comparing the > loudness of > different playing techniques with an audience. This maybe also > depends on > different acoustics (as I would use different bows in different > concert > rooms) > But I think you get a brighter sound with a quill amd then the > sound will > maybe go easier to the
[LUTE] Re: playing technique of baroque mandolin (with link!)
Stuart Walsh wrote: Stuart Walsh wrote: I just can't imagine how you get a loud, full sound playing the instrument fingerstyle when the instrument has such a tiny body. (But with a plectrum the instrument truly chirps). I think it was Stewart McCoy who, in a previous discussion of this same subject, said that mandolino strings at that short string length are going to feel like steel bars...and they do. So the technique of getting a sound from the strings of a lute or guitar or wire-string instrument (e.g. English guitar) wouldn't be any use at all - it would surely be far too gentle? Well, not for me, anyway. Well I came across this youtube video of Alex Timmerman playing an Alemanda by Ceccherini (it's also in Tyler's book). Played with gusto! Sounds forceful and loud - and punteado/fingerstyle. Dunno how he does it. Nails? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SYZ8L2aLww Stuart Jake Shimabukuro (modern uke virtuoso) gets a great, full sound but he seems to have an odd technique based around the RH thumb - nothing like early guitar or lute technique. )All those medieval depictions of gitterns have the celestial folk playing with plectra too.) So what 's the secret? Nails? Or some unusual aspect of construction that enables players to use punteado style successfully? I'd be really interested to hear/see the instrument played (punteado) - mp3, youtube, anything. A little demo - with fingers, plectrum, with other instruments?? Stuart -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Susanne Herre Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 6:38 AM To: EUGENE BRAIG IV; Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: playing technique of baroque mandolin Thank you Eugene! Is there in fact any iconography of baroque opera showing a mandolin player at all? Yes, if you play with the quill you will hear more higher harmonics because the section which hits the string is not as large as if you play with your finger... Yes, if you play with thumb-out and want to hit both strings of one course you have to play also with a bit of your nail. That happens automatically, I made this experience as well. All the best, Susanne - Original Message - From: [1]EUGENE BRAIG IV To: [2]Susanne Herre ; [3]Lute List Cc: [4]davide.rebuffa Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 3:35 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] playing technique of baroque mandolin I agree with Davide. I'm just aware of no baroque-era iconography that implies plectra/quills on 4th-tuned, gut strung mandolins. If it were common in the pit for obligati parts, I would think plectrum use would be at least occasionally evident in the sketchy iconography. I also use quills and more modern plectra on early and modern Neapolitan mandolins, even on a gut-strung mandolino Toscano, so I am accustomed to using plectra. I don't really gain appreciable volume applying quill to my 6-course mandolin/o, but in using quill, I do lose any bass response I get by using my fingertips. That said, I use a combination of flesh and nail on my mandolin/o. Again, I'm just not aware of any good written references to technique on 4th-tuned mandolins (or reference to quill use on same) until they get only peripheral mention in the literature for Neapolitan mandolins of the latter half of the 1700s. Best, Eugene - Original Message - From: Susanne Herre Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010 3:00 am Subject: [LUTE] playing technique of baroque mandolin To: "davide.rebuffa" , Lute List > > Dear Davide, > > Thank you for your comments! > > I still think we can not be so sure about certain things because > we don't > have much evidence. > > > - to my knowledge - there is no evidence at all that it > could be played > > with a quill before the late XVIIIth century. > > Do you have any evidence against quill technique e.g. in operas? > It is possible to play with a quill... > > I know about some paintings which show the finger technique (all > in all we > don't have much, have we?) but I also saw one picture (English) > where there > seems to be a kind of plectrum. But it is an anonymous picture > without any > year. Also I have seen a still life by Baschenis where there is > a quill and > I don't believe that the violin, the harp or the lute on this > picture is > played with it... > > I can't say that I have much experience of comparing the > loudness of > different playing techniques with an audience. This maybe also > depends on > different acoustics (as I would use different bows in different > concert > rooms) > But I think you get a brighter s
[LUTE] Re: playing technique of baroque mandolin (with link!)
Indeed. I had linked that clip in my rant on such instruments several months ago. I play the same, but use a whole lot more thumb in scalar passages. Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of Stuart Walsh > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 5:23 PM > Cc: Eugene C. Braig IV; 'Susanne Herre'; 'Lute List' > Subject: [LUTE] Re: playing technique of baroque mandolin (with link!) > > Stuart Walsh wrote: > > Stuart Walsh wrote: > >>> > >> > >> > >> I just can't imagine how you get a loud, full sound playing the > >> instrument fingerstyle when the instrument has such a tiny body. (But > >> with a plectrum the instrument truly chirps). I think it was Stewart > >> McCoy who, in a previous discussion of this same subject, said that > >> mandolino strings at that short string length are going to feel like > >> steel bars...and they do. So the technique of getting a sound from > >> the strings of a lute or guitar or wire-string instrument (e.g. > >> English guitar) wouldn't be any use at all - it would surely be far > >> too gentle? Well, not for me, anyway. > > > > Well I came across this youtube video of Alex Timmerman playing an > > Alemanda by Ceccherini (it's also in Tyler's book). Played with gusto! > > Sounds forceful and loud - and punteado/fingerstyle. Dunno how he does > > it. Nails? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SYZ8L2aLww > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > > >> > >> Jake Shimabukuro (modern uke virtuoso) gets a great, full sound but > >> he seems to have an odd technique based around the RH thumb - nothing > >> like early guitar or lute technique. > >> > >> )All those medieval depictions of gitterns have the celestial folk > >> playing with plectra too.) > >> > >> So what 's the secret? Nails? Or some unusual aspect of construction > >> that enables players to use punteado style successfully? > >> > >> I'd be really interested to hear/see the instrument played > >> (punteado) - mp3, youtube, anything. A little demo - with fingers, > >> plectrum, with other instruments?? > >> > >> > >> Stuart > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of Susanne Herre > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 6:38 AM > To: EUGENE BRAIG IV; Lute List > Subject: [LUTE] Re: playing technique of baroque mandolin > > Thank you Eugene! > > > > Is there in fact any iconography of baroque opera showing a > mandolin > player at all? > > > > Yes, if you play with the quill you will hear more higher > harmonics > because the section which hits the string is not as large as if > you > play with your finger... > > > > Yes, if you play with thumb-out and want to hit both strings of > one > course you have to play also with a bit of your nail. That happens > automatically, I made this experience as well. > > > > All the best, > > > > Susanne > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: [1]EUGENE BRAIG IV > > To: [2]Susanne Herre ; [3]Lute List > > Cc: [4]davide.rebuffa > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 3:35 AM > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] playing technique of baroque mandolin > > I agree with Davide. I'm just aware of no baroque-era > iconography > that implies plectra/quills on 4th-tuned, gut strung > mandolins. If > it were common in the pit for obligati parts, I would think > plectrum > use would be at least occasionally evident in the sketchy > iconography. > I also use quills and more modern plectra on early and modern > Neapolitan mandolins, even on a gut-strung mandolino Toscano, > so I > am accustomed to using plectra. I don't really gain appreciable > volume applying quill to my 6-course mandolin/o, but in using > quill, > I do lose any bass response I get by using my fingertips. That > said, I use a combination of flesh and nail on my mandolin/o. > Again, I'm just not aware of any good written references to > technique on 4th-tuned mandolins (or reference to quill use on > same) > until they get only peripheral mention in the literature for > Neapolitan mandolins of the latter half of the 1700s. > Best, > Eugene > - Original Message - > From: Susanne Herre > Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010 3:00 am > Subject: [LUTE] playing technique of baroque mandolin > To: "davide.rebuffa" , Lute List > > > > > Dear Davide, > > > > Thank
[LUTE] Music for Wolfgang's "wandervogellaute"?
Hi, all, Well, I finally found, scanned, and uploaded a little book of songs with "laute": [1]http://www.scribd.com/doc/31168462/Alte-und-Neue-Lieder-German-songs -for-laute-and-voice No date, but I'd guess first quarter of the 20th c. Clearly for guitar tuning in "E", with some optional bass notes, added strings not being uncommon at the time. You'll find some other guitar oddities on my page there, too. Best to all, and keep playing, Chris. >>> Franz Mechsner 5/5/2010 10:29 AM >>> Hi Wandervogelistas, Following Christopher's hints I came across the so-called Stoessel-Laute, which seems to have been enormously popular in the early 20th century in Germany, in several variations. It was a very cheap instrument normally, thus probably no fun to try. But some of the pictures look more promising, thus investing a little amount might be worth it, for special purposes and repertoire. Does anyone own such an instrument or at least know how it sounds? Any advice how to get a not too bad one? Are there luthiers who build these instruments? Thanks and best Franz Dr. Franz Mechsner Hanse Institute for Advanced Study Lehmkuhlenbusch 4 D-27753 Delmenhorst/Bremen GERMANY E-mail: [1]franz.mechs...@unn.ac.uk Phone: +49 (0)4221 9160-215 Fax: +49 (0)4221 9160-179 __ Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von Christopher Stetson Gesendet: Mi 05.05.2010 13:05 An: lute; wolfgang wiehe Betreff: [LUTE] Re: stringing of a "wandervogellaute" Hi, Wolfgang and all. I don't have a guitar lute, but several early 20th c. guitars. Why get fancy? Just buy a standard classical guitar string set. It will at least come close, and the good news is the price. In 1920 it would still have been gut. and you can get a standard gut set for about 30 USD here in the USA. I'd probably go with an Aquila nylgut Alabastro set (10 USD here in USA) , but any classical guitar set would probably be fine. I'm even thinking of trying D'Addarios on my 1900 parlor guitar (currently Alabastros), because they sound so good on my friend's 1909 guitar. And you might find it's not a bad instrument if you let it be what it is. There's an interesting body of German songs with guitar from 1903 to 1917 here: [1][2]http://www.muslib.se/ebibliotek/boije/Boije_g.htm , presumably the music it was made to play, and potentially fascinating historically. Look in Gitarristische Vereinigung and Der Guitarrefreund Musikbeilage. I've been wanting to explore them for awhile, but it never quite makes the top of the list. Best to all, and keep playing, Chris. >>> "wolfgang wiehe" 5/5/2010 6:09 AM >>> hello all, I get a present from member of our church choir: a 6-string "wandervogelgitarre" 63cm mensur. It is the instrument of her father (born in 1904). so its about 90 years old. not very pretty but corpus and soundboard without cracks and with intact mechanics. the instrument is stringed with nylon and cu-wounded guitar strings (more than 30 years old and made in GDR!), make a deep bass sound (I tuned it in D) Someone has experiences with stringing this furniture? mathias roesel told me to string it with nylgut (4 kg tension) greetings w. To get on or off this list see list information at [2][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [4]http://www.muslib.se/ebibliotek/boije/Boije_g.htm 2. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute -- References 1. mailto:franz.mechs...@unn.ac.uk 2. [2]http://www.muslib.se/ebibliotek/boije/Boije_g.htm 3. [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. [4]http://www.muslib.se/ebibliotek/boije/Boije_g.htm 5. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute -- References 1. http://www.scribd.com/doc/31168462/Alte-und-Neue-Lieder-German-songs-for-laute-and-voice 2. http://www.muslib.se/ebibliotek/boije/Boije_g.htm 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute 4. http://www.muslib.se/ebibliotek/boije/Boije_g.htm 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
