[LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
Four times C, or in your case twice the C-slash that precedes it. I could only hear the recording in annoyingly short snippets. But the singer's tempo may be too fast. - Original Message - From: "Peter Nightingale" To: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:20 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive Actually, here is the the backward-C-slash on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJKunHS0sI at the 1:24 mark, for the impatient. "Proportio quadrupla" is a nice start, thanks, but four times what, I wonder. Peter. On Sun, 13 Mar 2011, A. J. Ness wrote: Yes, that's what it would be called. Many thanks, Bernd. (Sorry I broke my promise. not to post anything more today.) And I'd expect it in Schutz, if anywhere. - Original Message - From: "Bernd Haegemann" To: "Peter Nightingale" ; "Lute List" ; "A. J. Ness" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive >C slash in mirror? What do you mean? I think you're clear. You mean >the opening to the letter C is normally on the right, and "in mirror" the opening is on the left? I've never seen it with a slash. Somehow I believe to have seen it in Sch?tz as proportio quadrupla... B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html the next auto-quote is: I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they killed there would be no more war. (Abbie Hoffman) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
[LUTE] Re: MORE Re: Crotchet rests
The composer I suggested is Gotthelf Heinrich Kummer, not Kaspar Kummer. - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" To: "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 5:09 PM Subject: [LUTE] MORE Re: Crotchet rests Thanks very much for your help, Arthur. Following your lead I have located the music by Kummer at the ISMLP site. I'll pass on the web address to the chap who asked about the music. Hopefully it will match what he has. If not, I hope to get a scan of what he has. All the best, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of A. J. Ness Sent: 13 March 2011 20:03 To: A. J. Ness; Stewart McCoy; Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] MORE Re: Crotchet rests I downloaded the ISMLP copy, Stewart. I have trouble sending *.PDF files, so if you can download it yourself, that would be best. If I send it, I'd have to split it into several files. But will do so if you wish. - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Stewart McCoy" ; "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests For some reason I have never been able to remember English terminology for musical notes. But that's my problem, not yours, Stewart. You asked about an undated, anonymous Premier Divertissement--sic (Divertissement is masculine, but maybe the publisher misspelled it), most likely the work by Kummer***: In the 18th century a crotchet [quarter-note, hereafter Q] rest looked like a mirror image [hereafter mE=Q] of a quaver [eighth-note, hereafter E] rest. We don't write them like that way any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? I don't think the shape of Q and E rests could be used as a reliable indicator of the date of a given piece of music. The mE=Q rest originates in the earliest mensural notation. Yet, in the Clavier Übung (1739) engraved by JSB himself the modern Q rest is clearly used. Also in the 18th (and earlier?) century the Q rest was sometimes shaped like a lowercase Z. When I played professionally, often from ancient orchestral parts at outdoor ballet and opera concerts in San Francisco's Stern Grove, I encountered printed parts, invariably from France as late as the 1940s which used the mE=Q rest (e.g., Les Sylphides [1940] and Carmen) . You would expect that while in such long use someone would have taken a pencil and marked the mE=Q rests as Q rests. But the parts I read from were always clean. It's surprisingly very easy to sight read music that uses E and mE=Q rests. Literally sight read. Those afternoon concerts had 2 hours of music prepared in a single one-hour morning rehearsal. ***It's probably Kaspar Kummer, [Trois] Divertissement[s], Op. 92, first publ. in Offenbach aM, by André ca. 1872; plate no. 6268. There's a copy in the ISMLP. The first divertissement is in C major, Allegretto scherzando. But you probably have another edition. AJN == This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
Actually, here is the the backward-C-slash on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJKunHS0sI at the 1:24 mark, for the impatient. "Proportio quadrupla" is a nice start, thanks, but four times what, I wonder. Peter. On Sun, 13 Mar 2011, A. J. Ness wrote: > Yes, that's what it would be called. Many thanks, Bernd. (Sorry I broke my > promise. not to post anything more today.) And I'd expect it in Schutz, if > anywhere. > - Original Message - From: "Bernd Haegemann" > To: "Peter Nightingale" ; "Lute List" > ; "A. J. Ness" > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:52 PM > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive > > >> >C slash in mirror? What do you mean? I think you're clear. You mean >> >the >>> opening to the letter C is normally on the right, and "in mirror" the >>> opening is on the left? I've never seen it with a slash. >> >> Somehow I believe to have seen it in Sch?tz as proportio quadrupla... >> >> B. > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > the next auto-quote is: I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they killed there would be no more war. (Abbie Hoffman) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
[LUTE] MORE Re: Crotchet rests
Thanks very much for your help, Arthur. Following your lead I have located the music by Kummer at the ISMLP site. I'll pass on the web address to the chap who asked about the music. Hopefully it will match what he has. If not, I hope to get a scan of what he has. All the best, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of A. J. Ness Sent: 13 March 2011 20:03 To: A. J. Ness; Stewart McCoy; Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] MORE Re: Crotchet rests I downloaded the ISMLP copy, Stewart. I have trouble sending *.PDF files, so if you can download it yourself, that would be best. If I send it, I'd have to split it into several files. But will do so if you wish. - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Stewart McCoy" ; "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests > For some reason I have never been able to remember English terminology for > musical notes. But that's my problem, not yours, Stewart. > > You asked about an undated, anonymous Premier Divertissement--sic > (Divertissement is masculine, > but maybe the publisher misspelled it), most likely the work by Kummer***: > >> In the 18th century a crotchet [quarter-note, hereafter Q] rest >> looked like a mirror image [hereafter mE=Q] of a >> quaver [eighth-note, hereafter E] rest. We don't write them >> like that way any more. When is it the >> modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? > > I don't think the shape of Q and E rests could be used as a reliable > indicator of the date of a given piece of music. The mE=Q rest > originates > in > the earliest mensural notation. Yet, in the Clavier Übung > (1739) engraved by JSB > himself the modern Q rest is clearly used. Also in the 18th (and > earlier?) > century > the > Q rest was sometimes shaped like a lowercase Z. When I played > professionally, often from ancient orchestral parts at > outdoor ballet and opera concerts in San Francisco's Stern Grove, I > encountered printed parts, invariably from France as late as the > 1940s which used the mE=Q rest (e.g., Les Sylphides [1940] and > Carmen) . You would expect that while in such long use someone would have > taken a > pencil > and marked the mE=Q rests as Q rests. But the parts I read from were > always clean. It's > surprisingly very easy to sight read music that uses E and mE=Q rests. > Literally sight read. Those afternoon concerts had 2 hours of music > prepared > in a single one-hour morning rehearsal. > > ***It's probably Kaspar Kummer, [Trois] Divertissement[s], Op. 92, first > publ. in > Offenbach aM, by André ca. 1872; plate no. 6268. There's a copy in the > ISMLP. > The first divertissement is in C major, Allegretto scherzando. But you > probably have another edition. > > AJN > == > >> This is the message I received: >> >> Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer >> on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone >> here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement >> pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no >> composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP >> who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He >> remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no >> further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. >> The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify >> it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look >> at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further >> suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts >> are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is >> something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been >> able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like >> reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one >> above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did >> the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please >> don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the >> change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick >> answer. >> >> >> Can anyone offer any thoughts? >> >> >> Stewart McCoy. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: Who got this gig?
On Mar 13, 2011, at 8:34 AM, Christopher Wilke wrote: > Doesn't this guy know that he's not meant to be heard, but only contribute to > the composite sound??? It is always _very_ bad form for the lute to be > heard! Yes, that's what everyone's always told me, even when I played solo gigs. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
Yes, that's what it would be called. Many thanks, Bernd. (Sorry I broke my promise. not to post anything more today.) And I'd expect it in Schutz, if anywhere. - Original Message - From: "Bernd Haegemann" To: "Peter Nightingale" ; "Lute List" ; "A. J. Ness" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive >C slash in mirror? What do you mean? I think you're clear. You mean >the opening to the letter C is normally on the right, and "in mirror" the opening is on the left? I've never seen it with a slash. Somehow I believe to have seen it in Schütz as proportio quadrupla... B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: "Like as the Lute" question
Hello, Benny! (p.s. this is my last message for today. sorry to dominate the proceedings.) Many years ago Gordon was a regular and valued contributor to this newslist. You have a partial contact in the link you provided. Gordon is now retired, if I'm not mistaken, as professor at Acadia University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. He is an authority on 17th-century English ayres, and has published many scholarly editions of that repertory in the A-R Editions's Recent Researches series. He is also moderator of the SCORE music engravers newslist, and maintains the SCORE web site at his university. So I believe you can find a email contact and perhaps invite him to respond to your question here on our list. I reached his SCORE web site by Googling as follows: "acadia university" callon score. But Benny, it's so obvious. Don't you get it? John Danyel's a musical punster. "Her touch" (?) What happens to you when your signficant other touches you? Say in a dark movie theater when you were a shy junior high school kid on your first serious date? You catch your breath. You gasp. Hence the rests. What I don't understand is why there are two rests, when one would do. But that is because of the scansion. The next note to be sung is an upbeat. - Original Message - From: To: "lute mailing list list" Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 10:10 PM Subject: [LUTE] "Like as the Lute" question Hi, everyone! I've got a question about John Danyel's "Like as the Lute Delights". This is a version of it that I found online. http://www.acadiau.ca/~gcallon/www/archive/like.pdf On page three, second bar there is pause after the words "her touch", and you can see that the tab denotes the rests, rather than having the word "touch" held for three beats. Does anyone familiar with this song know if this notation is original? Is Gordon J. Callon on this list-serve, or does anyone know him? Or is there an original source for the tab that can be accessed online? Thanks! Ben S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
C slash in mirror? What do you mean? I think you're clear. You mean the opening to the letter C is normally on the right, and "in mirror" the opening is on the left? I've never seen it with a slash. Somehow I believe to have seen it in Schütz as proportio quadrupla... B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
C slash in mirror? What do you mean? I think you're clear. You mean the
opening to the letter C is normally on the right, and "in mirror" the
opening is on the left? I've never seen it with a slash.
But No-slash Mirror C does occur on rare occasions. It is the same as C
slash.
Let's see.
Whole note (W) in C would be the same rhythmic value as a Half note (H) of
C in C slash (or No-slash Mirror C). Oops! Let's get this right. A Half
note (H) in C would be the same length as a Whole note (W) in C slash (or
No-slash Mirror C)
In mirror C slash a W of C would be the same rhythmic value as a Quarter
note (Q) in C.
Need an advanced degree in mathematics to compute musical proportions.
I'm not certain that's correct, but logically that's what Mirror slash-C
would be.
You have C-slash-3 correct. There are two examples in the ricercars of
Marco dall'Aquila. I've seen it in Newsidler (Neusidler, Nenslyder), too.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/marcodallaquila
For specific pieces (tablature and transcriptions) click on the appropriate
"Libro" at the top of the Home Page.
See the transcriptions in my online edition, No. 46 in Libro Terzo (about
half way down the page). H = dotted H.
For a similar example see No.
22 "alla frottola" in Libro Secondo would be Slashed-circle-3. Compare the
tabkature and the transcription. Barlines (according to Barberiis [1548],
"picego" in Venetian
dialect--"slash" as with a sword) in tablature are often not metrical, but
rather mark off the tactus ("beat"). Many transcriptions that use the same
barlines as the tablature should have a meter sign of 1/1 (e.g., Chiesa).
Marco's music has some of the most amazing rhythmic
tricks that I've ever seen in early music, such as the metrical accelerando
at the end on No. 61 (Libro
quarto), Ricercar ("con misure di restringemento"/shrinking measures--see
the triangle-shaped précis at the bottom of the last page).
Now you have me wondering how that would have been notated in mensural
notation of the 16th century. And much of Marco's music strikes me as
having been conceived in mensural notation, and then intabulated.
AJN
- Original Message -
From: "Peter Nightingale"
To: "lute list"
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:10 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
Dear List,
Does anyone know what the various time signatures mean that appear in
Purcell's "Cupid, the slyest rogue alive"?
My edition starts in 2/2 (C-slash), then goes to "C-slash-3" which I
interpret as 3/4 measures with the same duration as half the preceding
2/2 measures. Then it goes back to 2/2 and alternates between 2/2 and
something denoted by a C-slash in mirror image (mirrored about the
vertical). I guess it's a faster 2/2. If so, how much faster?
Thanks,
Peter.
the next auto-quote is:
The wise man belongs to all countries, for the
home of a great soul is the whole world.
(Democritus)
/\/\
Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882
Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380
University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: gig for lutrenist
I love those pieces! If you're paying travel and lodging, I'm your man! ;-) David - based in The Nethetherlands, in case you're contemplating .. -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** On 13 March 2011 18:39, wrote: > Hi > I play the lute, but I am not at the public performance level yet. I am in > the Washington DC area and would like to hire a good lutenist to play two > pieces by Josquin Des Prez, from the 1517 Capirola lute book: Et in Terra and > Qui Tollis. Both pieces were arranged for lute based on Josquin's Missa Pange > Lingua which wasn't published until 1539. The lute pieces have historic > significance because they helped establish Josquin's authorship and the date > the mass was composed. > > > > > The concert is 3 pm June 26, 2011 in Bethesda MD. The St Thomas Schola > Cantorum will sing the Missa Pange Lingua, and after the second movement the > lute pieces will be performed. I can provide the music if you need it. > > > Please contact me with your credentials. > > > Cyndi > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] MORE Re: Crotchet rests
I downloaded the ISMLP copy, Stewart. I have trouble sending *.PDF files, so if you can download it yourself, that would be best. If I send it, I'd have to split it into several files. But will do so if you wish. - Original Message - From: "A. J. Ness" To: "Stewart McCoy" ; "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests For some reason I have never been able to remember English terminology for musical notes. But that's my problem, not yours, Stewart. You asked about an undated, anonymous Premier Divertissement--sic (Divertissement is masculine, but maybe the publisher misspelled it), most likely the work by Kummer***: In the 18th century a crotchet [quarter-note, hereafter Q] rest looked like a mirror image [hereafter mE=Q] of a quaver [eighth-note, hereafter E] rest. We don't write them like that way any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? I don't think the shape of Q and E rests could be used as a reliable indicator of the date of a given piece of music. The mE=Q rest originates in the earliest mensural notation. Yet, in the Clavier Übung (1739) engraved by JSB himself the modern Q rest is clearly used. Also in the 18th (and earlier?) century the Q rest was sometimes shaped like a lowercase Z. When I played professionally, often from ancient orchestral parts at outdoor ballet and opera concerts in San Francisco's Stern Grove, I encountered printed parts, invariably from France as late as the 1940s which used the mE=Q rest (e.g., Les Sylphides [1940] and Carmen) . You would expect that while in such long use someone would have taken a pencil and marked the mE=Q rests as Q rests. But the parts I read from were always clean. It's surprisingly very easy to sight read music that uses E and mE=Q rests. Literally sight read. Those afternoon concerts had 2 hours of music prepared in a single one-hour morning rehearsal. ***It's probably Kaspar Kummer, [Trois] Divertissement[s], Op. 92, first publ. in Offenbach aM, by André ca. 1872; plate no. 6268. There's a copy in the ISMLP. The first divertissement is in C major, Allegretto scherzando. But you probably have another edition. AJN == This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests
For some reason I have never been able to remember English terminology for musical notes. But that's my problem, not yours, Stewart. You asked about an undated, anonymous Premier Divertissement--sic (Divertissement is masculine, but maybe the publisher misspelled it), most likely the work by Kummer***: In the 18th century a crotchet [quarter-note, hereafter Q] rest looked like a mirror image [hereafter mE=Q] of a quaver [eighth-note, hereafter E] rest. We don't write them like that way any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? I don't think the shape of Q and E rests could be used as a reliable indicator of the date of a given piece of music. The mE=Q rest originates in the earliest mensural notation. Yet, in the Clavier Übung (1739) engraved by JSB himself the modern Q rest is clearly used. Also in the 18th (and earlier?) century the Q rest was sometimes shaped like a lowercase Z. When I played professionally, often from ancient orchestral parts at outdoor ballet and opera concerts in San Francisco's Stern Grove, I encountered printed parts, invariably from France as late as the 1940s which used the mE=Q rest (e.g., Les Sylphides [1940] and Carmen) . You would expect that while in such long use someone would have taken a pencil and marked the mE=Q rests as Q rests. But the parts I read from were always clean. It's surprisingly very easy to sight read music that uses E and mE=Q rests. Literally sight read. Those afternoon concerts had 2 hours of music prepared in a single one-hour morning rehearsal. ***It's probably Kaspar Kummer, [Trois] Divertissement[s], Op. 92, first publ. in Offenbach aM, by André ca. 1872; plate no. 6268. There's a copy in the ISMLP. The first divertissement is in C major, Allegretto scherzando. But you probably have another edition. AJN == This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: searching for a daMilano piece
Yes, that's it! Thank you Jean-Marie. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Jean-Marie Poirier <[1]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr> wrote: Hi Ed, Wold that be the piece in question ? (see pdf attachment) Best, Jean-Marie = == En reponse au message du 13-03-2011, 19:54:18 == >Can anyone point me to a digital version of a Francesco Ricercare that starts like this:f i h fe f r a d c ab a e d d c d a >I went through all the daMilano PDFs at Sarge Gerbode's lute page, but I couldn't find it.TIA -- References 1. mailto:jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: searching for a daMilano piece
Looks like Ness 30 by Francesco da Parigi (Siena ms). I sent a copy to Ed just in case... Jean-Marie = == En réponse au message du 13-03-2011, 19:54:18 == >Can anyone point me to a digital version of a Francesco Ricercare that starts >like this:f i h f e f r a d c >a b a e > d d c d a >I went through all the daMilano PDFs at Sarge Gerbode's lute page, >but I couldn't find it.TIA To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Crotchet rests
Dear Meg, Many thanks indeed for your message. In fact this does help a lot, because it rules out using the crotchet rest as a means of dating musical sources. Clearly I shall need to get hold of a copy of the music to be able to make any progress in finding out what it is. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Margaret Munck Sent: 13 March 2011 15:44 To: Stewart McCoy Cc: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests I don't think you will be able to pin down a very precise date, and it probably varied from country to country and publisher to publisher. I have some late 19thC editions of piano music with the modern crotchet rest and others from the same period with the old style. On my shelves I find The Revised Church Hymnary (OUP 1929) is still using the old style, but The Church Anthem Book (OUP 1933) uses new style. Both of these are properly engraved, i.e. not movable type. FWIW, I still use a version of the old style when copying by hand - it is much quicker. The stroke goes down-up-right, and looks a bit like a letter "r". Some hire orchestral parts are reproductions of hand copied originals, and some of these, e.g. Malcolm Arnold, also use old style, no doubt for the same reason. Arnold's copyist's version looks similar a handwritten square root sign, with a curl at the bottom left rather than an acute angle. I don't thinks this helps you very much! regards Meg On 13 March 2011 13:15, Stewart McCoy <[1]lu...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: Dear All, Not specifically about lutes, I'm afraid, but I thought maybe someone might be able to help with a query which was passed on to me this morning. In the 18^th century a crotchet rest looked like a mirror image of a quaver rest. We don't write them like that any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lu...@tiscali.co.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] gig for lutrenist
Hi I play the lute, but I am not at the public performance level yet. I am in the Washington DC area and would like to hire a good lutenist to play two pieces by Josquin Des Prez, from the 1517 Capirola lute book: Et in Terra and Qui Tollis. Both pieces were arranged for lute based on Josquin's Missa Pange Lingua which wasn't published until 1539. The lute pieces have historic significance because they helped establish Josquin's authorship and the date the mass was composed. The concert is 3 pm June 26, 2011 in Bethesda MD. The St Thomas Schola Cantorum will sing the Missa Pange Lingua, and after the second movement the lute pieces will be performed. I can provide the music if you need it. Please contact me with your credentials. Cyndi -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests
I don't think you will be able to pin down a very precise date, and it probably varied from country to country and publisher to publisher. I have some late 19thC editions of piano music with the modern crotchet rest and others from the same period with the old style. On my shelves I find The Revised Church Hymnary (OUP 1929) is still using the old style, but The Church Anthem Book (OUP 1933) uses new style. Both of these are properly engraved, i.e. not movable type. FWIW, I still use a version of the old style when copying by hand - it is much quicker. The stroke goes down-up-right, and looks a bit like a letter "r". Some hire orchestral parts are reproductions of hand copied originals, and some of these, e.g. Malcolm Arnold, also use old style, no doubt for the same reason. Arnold's copyist's version looks similar a handwritten square root sign, with a curl at the bottom left rather than an acute angle. I don't thinks this helps you very much! regards Meg On 13 March 2011 13:15, Stewart McCoy <[1]lu...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: Dear All, Not specifically about lutes, I'm afraid, but I thought maybe someone might be able to help with a query which was passed on to me this morning. In the 18^th century a crotchet rest looked like a mirror image of a quaver rest. We don't write them like that any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lu...@tiscali.co.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Who got this gig?
--- On Sun, 3/13/11, mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote: > I can even HEAR him > heavily strumming! > Doesn't this guy know that he's not meant to be heard, but only contribute to the composite sound??? It is always _very_ bad form for the lute to be heard! ;-P In all seriousness, it looks like this fellow is approaching the instrument like a guitarist. Maybe he's someone who's main gig is modern guitar doing this as a side job. I notice no pinky planted and there is a lot of free wrist movement as he feels the beat after plucking chordal accents. Please note that I could care less if he is a modern player moonlighting. If you actually hear him, so much the better. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Purcell: Cupid, the slyest rogue alive
Dear List, Does anyone know what the various time signatures mean that appear in Purcell's "Cupid, the slyest rogue alive"? My edition starts in 2/2 (C-slash), then goes to "C-slash-3" which I interpret as 3/4 measures with the same duration as half the preceding 2/2 measures. Then it goes back to 2/2 and alternates between 2/2 and something denoted by a C-slash in mirror image (mirrored about the vertical). I guess it's a faster 2/2. If so, how much faster? Thanks, Peter. the next auto-quote is: The wise man belongs to all countries, for the home of a great soul is the whole world. (Democritus) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Who got this gig?
Thanks for the links, Daniel, although the "theorbo" looks more like an archlute to me, but... Best, Jean-Marie = == En réponse au message du 13-03-2011, 03:35:41 == > [1]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/58/BcgOLMloEOI > > [2]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/59/YyNLx8n_49o > > [3]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/60/mf3Iks-iibA > > [4]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/61/ylJ04ARTGlY > > [5]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/62/lxnO9UyNMgg > > [6]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/63/XYUbGAwnVfU > > There is a clear shot of the theorbo player at about 6:07-6:12 in part > 2/3 of the Handel Dixit Dominus at 0:24-0:27 and 12:04-12:07 in the > Vivaldi. On the whole a pretty nice performance (although the choral > forces may be larger than necessary) and a very well made video. > > Daniel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Crotchet rests
Dear All, Not specifically about lutes, I'm afraid, but I thought maybe someone might be able to help with a query which was passed on to me this morning. In the 18^th century a crotchet rest looked like a mirror image of a quaver rest. We don't write them like that any more. When is it the modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? This is the message I received: Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be. The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one above the other). How far would this be a clue to the date ? When did the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick answer. Can anyone offer any thoughts? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Who got this gig?
I can even HEAR him heavily strumming! M= athias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [LUTE]= Who got this gig? > Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 03:32:02 +0100 &= gt; From: Daniel F Heiman > To: Lut= e...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [1]http://www.youtube.com/user/protest= ant7#p/u/58/BcgOLMloEOI > > [2]http://www.youtube.com/us= er/protestant7#p/u/59/YyNLx8n_49o > > [3]http://www.yout= ube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/60/mf3Iks-iibA > > [4]http:= //www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/61/ylJ04ARTGlY > >= ; [5]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/62/lxnO9UyNMgg > = > [6]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/63/XYUbGAwnVfU > > There is a clear shot of the theorbo player at about = 6:07-6:12 in part > 2/3 of the Handel Dixit Dominus at 0:24-0:27 a= nd 12:04-12:07 in the > Vivaldi. On the whole a pretty nice perfo= rmance (although the choral > forces may be larger than necessary)= and a very well made video. > > > >= Daniel > > -- > > References &= gt; > 1. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/58/BcgOLMloE= OI > 2. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/59/YyNLx8n_49o= > 3. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/60/mf3Iks-iibA > 4. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/61/ylJ04ARTGlY > 5. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/62/lxnO9UyNMgg = > 6. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/63/XYUbGAwnVfU &= gt; > > To get on or off this list see list information= at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html = > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
