[LUTE] 13th century Conductus played on gittern and psaltery
Sol Sub Nube Latuit. A liturgical piece for two voices, no doubt embedded in the fervent Christian rituals and faith... nothing to do with instrumental music Here imagined as played by an irreverent pair of instrumentalists, insofar as it is possible to be irreverent when wearing tights, pointy footwear and playing culpably fay instruments like psaltery and gittern. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BPI586YQt4 Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 13th century Conductus played on gittern and psaltery
Wow!! Delightful! Joseph Mayes On 1/24/13 3:30 PM, "WALSH STUART" wrote: > Sol Sub Nube Latuit. A liturgical piece for two voices, no doubt > embedded in the fervent Christian rituals and faith... nothing to do > with instrumental music > > Here imagined as played by an irreverent pair of instrumentalists, > insofar as it is possible to be irreverent when wearing tights, pointy > footwear and playing culpably fay instruments like psaltery and gittern. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BPI586YQt4 > > > Stuart > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 13th century Conductus played on gittern and psaltery
I liked it, too. Thanks Stuart. Sean Interesting YT: I played it after Joseph M. wrote his note (30 min after Stuart posted it) but when I got there it said there had been no views. Invisible eyes of the marketplace? On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:30 PM, WALSH STUART wrote: Sol Sub Nube Latuit. A liturgical piece for two voices, no doubt embedded in the fervent Christian rituals and faith... nothing to do with instrumental music Here imagined as played by an irreverent pair of instrumentalists, insofar as it is possible to be irreverent when wearing tights, pointy footwear and playing culpably fay instruments like psaltery and gittern. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BPI586YQt4 Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 4 course guitar in Italy - was Calata de StrAmbotto
On 23/01/2013 07:54, Pieter Van Tichelen wrote: >Well I would be interested to read more of what you have found out! I'm only too glad to tell but how much time have you got? ;) This really is my bread and butter so it's harder for me to stop than start. .. Nice bread and butter! but I've seen so many plucked string instrument names reused that I don't really wonder about that any more. :) ... Yes indeed. This sort of thing drives some people mad. I think it's fun. ... >> However, other contempary French sources use the same name for the >> lute-like instrument too. (For example, Pierre Belon observes in 1553 a >> certain lute-like instrument from Eastern Europe which he compares to >> the "guiterne", thereby showing some characteristics that point to the >> lute-shaped instrument, even pointing out it's made from one piece of >> wood. >> An inventory at the death of Philippe de la Canessiere in 1551 >> mentions "trois guiternes dont une `a unze cordes et les deux aultres >> petites" - 3 gitterns of which one with 11 strings and the other two >> small; once more hinting that the old gittern hadn't vanished just yet. >I don't follow this last bit, Pieter. The gittern by this time was really a small lute in most cases: a 5 or 6 course instrument. I would very much doubt that a figure-8 shaped instrument "guitar" of that time would have 11 strings (unless by using three-string courses?). The two "small" ones might be either "guitars" or "gitterns", there is just not enough information to draw conclusions. >> Even in 1571, Maurice de la Porte still claims "la guiterne est comme >> un diminutif du luth" - the gittern is a small lute.) If the source is >> French and from after 1540, be careful as it might be either for >> "guitar" or "gittern". Interestingly enough, some inventories of >> instrument makers like the Denis builders seem to have tried to make a >> distinction between a "guitarne" and a "guiterne" (where the guiterne >> has "fondz de lut" or a lute back). I therefore would place it that a >> source putting an "a" guitar(n)e in France in the second half of the >> 16th century is not referring to the lute-like instrument. This however >> doesn't discount that there are numerous cases where the figure-8 >> shaped instrument was called guiterne in French sources of the same >> period. It can however be a good guideline if come across that >> particular spelling with an "a". However in some cases even this rule >> can't be followed, the inventory of yet another instrument builder, >> Pierre Aubry in 1596, has "viels lucs de guitarne" - suggesting the old >> lute-like gittern. I wonder what the "lute-like instrument from Eastern Europe, Belon was referring to in 1553. You cite Belon, de la Porte and an inventory. Is there any iconography, or are there any other references? I don't think I've come across modern gittern players playing 16th century music. But it would seem that the gittern, probably played with some sort of plectrum, would be a reasonable possibility e.g.: for playing mid 16th c French dance music? Gervaise? (In contrast, mandores are build abundantly.) In my interpretation of the facts known to me, the gittern and mandore are not directly linked. They might share the same ancestor, and clearly it seems as though history has repeated itself... as the first mandores seem to again be one-piece of wood single-strung instrument like the original lute-like gittern. But let me elaborate why I don't believe the gittern to be the direct ancestor of the mandore. The gittern was derived from the rebec, as is clearly visible from the first pictures (like those in the two manuscripts of the Cantigas de Santa Maria who have gitterns). The only source that contests this is Tinctoris who claims the Catalans invented the instrument (please remember that he wrote at least 3 centuries after the instrument first showed up). The mandore first shows up in the later 16th century and the first sources are from the south of France (it reaches northern France only at the last quarter of the century). At that time the gittern is depicted with a lute back made of ribs instead of cut out of one piece of wood, and strung with courses instead of single strings. The gitterns tuning by this time also is very similar to that of the lute (as fa
[LUTE] Re: 13th century Conductus played on gittern and psaltery
On 24/01/2013 21:11, Sean Smith wrote: I liked it, too. Thanks Stuart. Sean Interesting YT: I played it after Joseph M. wrote his note (30 min after Stuart posted it) but when I got there it said there had been no views. Invisible eyes of the marketplace? Thanks Joseph and Sean. I found the piece in a scholarly edition from the 1960s: 35 Conductus ed. Janet Knapp. I'm sure it's very bad form to read this 6/8 music as if it were bouncing along and quite abominable to play it on instruments. The Gothic Voices version,sepulchrally slow, doesn't even sound like 6/8 until the end. But it really is music from that age - and doesn't sound too different (to me) from the surviving two-part instrumental music. Stuart On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:30 PM, WALSH STUART wrote: Sol Sub Nube Latuit. A liturgical piece for two voices, no doubt embedded in the fervent Christian rituals and faith... nothing to do with instrumental music Here imagined as played by an irreverent pair of instrumentalists, insofar as it is possible to be irreverent when wearing tights, pointy footwear and playing culpably fay instruments like psaltery and gittern. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BPI586YQt4 Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 13th century Conductus played on gittern and psaltery
On 24/01/2013 21:39, WALSH STUART wrote: On 24/01/2013 21:11, Sean Smith wrote: I liked it, too. Thanks Stuart. Sean Interesting YT: I played it after Joseph M. wrote his note (30 min after Stuart posted it) but when I got there it said there had been no views. Invisible eyes of the marketplace? Thanks Joseph and Sean. I found the piece in a scholarly edition from the 1960s: 35 Conductus ed. Janet Knapp. I'm sure it's very bad form to read this 6/8 music as if it were bouncing along and quite abominable to play it on instruments. The Gothic Voices version,sepulchrally slow, doesn't even sound like 6/8 until the end. But it really is music from that age - and doesn't sound too different (to me) from the surviving two-part instrumental music. Stuart On Jan 24, 2013, at 12:30 PM, WALSH STUART wrote: Sol Sub Nube Latuit. A liturgical piece for two voices, no doubt embedded in the fervent Christian rituals and faith... nothing to do with instrumental music Here imagined as played by an irreverent pair of instrumentalists, insofar as it is possible to be irreverent when wearing tights, pointy footwear and playing culpably fay instruments like psaltery and gittern. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BPI586YQt4 Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
