[LUTE] Re: Adriaensen 1600
Sean, I'm not sure if it will help or not, but I see 5 surviving exemplars at RISM locations: B-Br [the mf copy], DK-Kk, F-Pm, GB-Lbl, and NL-At. Gary On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:24 PM Sean Smith <[1]lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote: I found in the recent digitization of the LSA microfilm library, a second printing of E. Adriansen's Pratum musicum longe 1584 printed in 1600 with different music. I downloaded it but find it difficult to read. Is there a digitized facsimile (no microfilm middleman) available? Modern edition?? Since it's not in Brown I don't know where the original resides. Thanks in advance, Sean -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr. Gary R. Boye Erneston Music Library Appalachian State University -- References 1. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] "Everybody Loves Reymann" THANKS!
Dear Luternetters- Muchas Gracias for all the Reymann links- PDFs, fronimonstrosities and other postcunabula renderings. Of the two or so that I was able to access, I chose to print out the one with a table of contents- to anyone else inclined to do likewise, DON'T FAIL TO INCLUDE THIS- the pages In the PDF I printed are not quite numbered- only if a piece is more than one page, so no page no. exceeds "3"- monitor the print output rigorously and collate slowly & obsessively, then number them yourself. 140 odd, unnumbered pages flying off the music and you might as well shoot yourself. Well worth it; this collection is as good as some of you have said it is. The best download of this sort that I have done since I printed out the Fuenllana "Orphenica Lyra" in its entirety. Real meaty music, high quality- complex, full, melodic, but not sadistic (like Melchior Neusidler & a few others). I forget at this point who sent out which versions, so a THANKS to all, & I encourage everyone to try Reymann's music. Written for 8 course, but the less usual bass string tuning of a=D, and /a=CC. A pain to retune my F/D 8 course, so I am playing it on the 10 course. You do need that low "C". Cheers, Dan W. On 5/4/2019 7:13 AM, Jurgen Frenz wrote: I don't know if someone posted it here since last week but here is the pdf of Noctes Musicae. Sorry for wasting bandwidth if I repost it. Best regards Jurgen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Adriaensen 1600
I found in the recent digitization of the LSA microfilm library, a second printing of E. Adriansen's Pratum musicum longe 1584 printed in 1600 with different music. I downloaded it but find it difficult to read. Is there a digitized facsimile (no microfilm middleman) available? Modern edition?? Since it's not in Brown I don't know where the original resides. Thanks in advance, Sean -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Klosmann
Here the cantus: https://academica.edu.pl/reading/readSingle?cid=26782178=26426872 The tenor: https://academica.edu.pl/reading/readSingle?cid=32808131=27517222 Best regards Markus Am 04.05.19 um 18:36 schrieb Markus Lutz: Indeed it is a publication with 4 part books. It seems as if 2 of them have survived in Poland. One, the alto, is online already: http://dlibra.kul.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=15506 But there also seems to be the tenor partbook, but not yet digitized. From the year, this Caspar Klosmann seems to have lived in Leipzig and probably (but this is guessing) was the father of the Caspar Klosmann that lived from 1616 to 1657, in the last years in Wroclaw - there is a portrait of him online ... Klosmann seems to be a publisher and no composer. Best regards Markus Am 04.05.19 um 17:11 schrieb Arthur Ness: --=_Part_1326960_1007781479.1556982707380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The publisher is Caspar Klosman in Leipzig. An anthology with 100 dances, fantasias, canzonas, et cetera. Unique copy (according to Robert Eitner: Musik-Sammelwerke [1905?], pp. 269-270) in Liegnitz, Ritterakademie. TENOR partbook only. Eitner1622b. I couldn't find it in RISM online or in Recueils imprimés (1960).     -Original Message- From: Rainer To: Lute net Sent: Sat, May 4, 2019 4:40 am Subject: [LUTE] Klosmann Dear lute netters, does anybody know anything about Caspar Klosmann and/or his "Amoenitatum musicalium hortulus..." published in 1622? There is almost nothing on the Internet and even nothing in Jstor. Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --=_Part_1326960_1007781479.1556982707380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The publisher is Caspar Klosman in Leipzig. An anthology with 100 dances, fantasias, canzonas, et cetera. Unique copy (according to Robert Eitner: Musik-Sammelwerke [1905?], pp. 269-270) in Liegnitz, Ritterakademie. TENOR partbook only. Eitner1622b. I couldn't find it in RISM online or in Recueils imprimés (1960). width="600" title="bibliographieder00eitn_0269.jpg" class="AOLInlineImage" id="TIE.7924410" style="margin: 5px; vertical-align: middle;" alt="bibliographieder00eitn_0269.jpg" src="cid:AOLP.7924410"> width="600" title="bibliographieder00eitn_0270.jpg" class="AOLInlineImage" id="TIE.8363200" style="margin: 5px; vertical-align: middle;" alt="bibliographieder00eitn_0270.jpg" src="cid:AOLP.8363200"> style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-Original Message- From: Rainer rads.bera_g...@t-online.de To: Lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, May 4, 2019 4:40 am Subject: [LUTE] Klosmann Dear lute netters, does anybody know anything about Caspar Klosmann and/or his "Amoenitatum musicalium hortulus..." published in 1622? There is almost nothing on the Internet and even nothing in Jstor. Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at href="http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html; target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --=_Part_1326960_1007781479.1556982707380-- -- -- *** Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel. 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 ***
[LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines?
I find this type discussion fascinating. I was just looking at the Adriaensen books and noticed Phalese & Bellere's first use of 7th and 8th course: an open 7th course was -a- (w/ a line going through it since P always ciphered "in" the line instead of "in" the space). But an open 8th course was --a-- , i.e. a hyphen on either side. For years I had never noticed the subtle difference and assumed one was expected to change the 7th course as necessary. I suspect the Phalese prints from the 1540's through the end of the century were fairly popular among at least amateurs. By not requiring page turns for the most part after his switch from ottavo to quarto he could market to those who didn't feel it necessary to memorize their material. They were also a digest of the more popular and often easier intabulations alongside--or followed in the next publication by--the most difficult. We can also follow many broad evolutions of harmonic/ficta trends, intabulation styles and repertory. Food for another thread . . . or thesis project. Sean On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:04 AM Alain Veylit <[1]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote: Printers were very dependent on the fonts they had - In the Ballard book, the bar lines clearly use a single font (i.e. piece of metal...) with a vertical bar and 6 horizontal dashes extending on both sides. In Dowland's Book of ayrs, the barlines extend up and down from the staff in notation, but are too short in the tablature. See: [2]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/img/can-she-excuse.png It seems to me probable that the printers used at least some of the same type case for both notation and tablature (i.e. whenever possible ...). A 5-line tablature staff and a 5-line notation staff are not that different, after all. This could considerably reduce the cost of production as well as space in the workshop. This is just speculation on my part, but it could be interesting to look at prints with both notation and tablature (Il Fronimo, English books of airs, as well as Phalese) . Printers fonts were extremely valuable, and if I remember correctly could be used for decades if not centuries. Note the same "fishbone" pattern for barlines as in Ballard and Booke of Ayres in notation in Phalese's Luculentum theatrum musicum - that extend both above and below the staff. (facsimile: [3]http://rosdok.uni-rostock.de/resolve/id/rosdok_document_00894 2) On 5/4/19 9:06 AM, Denys Stephens wrote: > Dear Alain, > Thanks! Thanks also for the link to the Ballard print - it really is very elegant. Single impression tablature had come a long way from Attaingnant's first ground breaking prints. One more point about Phalese crossed my mind, which is that in prints such as 'Hortus Musarum' he pirates pieces from Italian prints and converts them from the six line Italian tablature to his own five line system, which I think makes it clear that he is deliberately choosing the five line format despite being aware that the Italian prints use six. In Hortus Musarum the efficient use of space together with its portrait format means that longer pieces can be accommodated on one opening of the print. So for example a fantasia by Marco Dall'Aquila that requires two page turns in Casteliono fits on one and a half pages and still leaves room for another short fantasia. From a swift thumb through of my copy, it looks like there are no pieces in Hortus Musarum that require a page turn. Very player fri! endly! This seems to be an intentional improvement by Phalese on his earlier lute prints where he used the landscape format commonly found in Italian lute prints - this does result in longer pieces requiring page turns. > > Thanks again & best wishes, > > Denys > > -Original Message- > From: Alain Veylit <[4]al...@musickshandmade.com> > Sent: 04 May 2019 01:19 > To: Denys Stephens <[5]denyssteph...@sky.com>; [6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines? > > Great explanation, Denys :) > > Paper was the most expensive part of publishing for a long time, and I saw somewhere that German tab was appreciated for saving vertical space on the page. > > I am transcribing pieces from Dowland's First booke of Ayres, and I find it amazing what those printers managed to do with the tools they had. > Though, esthetically speaking, Ballard has my preference: > [7]https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b52506298g/f15.image . It's a work of art as much as the music, and it probably did come cheap... > > By the way, Phalese was Dutch, not French.
[LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines?
That is a very good point. Indeed that is what compelled me to print the scan on paper to bind as a book. The second part of the duets is printed upside down - also very player-friendly. On 04.05.19 18:06, Denys Stephens wrote: Dear Alain, Thanks! Thanks also for the link to the Ballard print - it really is very elegant. Single impression tablature had come a long way from Attaingnant's first ground breaking prints. One more point about Phalese crossed my mind, which is that in prints such as 'Hortus Musarum' he pirates pieces from Italian prints and converts them from the six line Italian tablature to his own five line system, which I think makes it clear that he is deliberately choosing the five line format despite being aware that the Italian prints use six. In Hortus Musarum the efficient use of space together with its portrait format means that longer pieces can be accommodated on one opening of the print. So for example a fantasia by Marco Dall'Aquila that requires two page turns in Casteliono fits on one and a half pages and still leaves room for another short fantasia. From a swift thumb through of my copy, it looks like there are no pieces in Hortus Musarum that require a page turn. Very player fri! en! dly! This seems to be an intentional improvement by Phalese on his earlier lute prints where he used the landscape format commonly found in Italian lute prints - this does result in longer pieces requiring page turns. Thanks again & best wishes, Denys -Original Message- From: Alain Veylit Sent: 04 May 2019 01:19 To: Denys Stephens ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines? Great explanation, Denys :) Paper was the most expensive part of publishing for a long time, and I saw somewhere that German tab was appreciated for saving vertical space on the page. I am transcribing pieces from Dowland's First booke of Ayres, and I find it amazing what those printers managed to do with the tools they had. Though, esthetically speaking, Ballard has my preference: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b52506298g/f15.image . It's a work of art as much as the music, and it probably did come cheap... By the way, Phalese was Dutch, not French. French books were generally more luxurious than in England or Holland, and French music publishers switched to engraving fairly early in the 17th century. Alain On 5/3/19 1:40 PM, Denys Stephens wrote: I was intrigued by this question. Phalese is one of the most prolific users of a five line stave for lute tablature, and looking at his prints suggest several reasons why he did it. In single impression printing of tablature the tab lines are integral with the letters, and it's surprising in the music in the Phalese prints how relatively infrequently notes occur on the sixth course (in comparison to the higher courses). So leaving out the lowest line saves some typesetting. But it also allows the staves to be placed closer together without looking overwhelmingly cramped. That saves paper and fits more music onto each page. So I would say that it was the most cost effective and efficient way to print the kind of repertoire he was dealing with. Best wishes, Denys -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf Of Dan Winheld Sent: 03 May 2019 03:24 To: Tristan von Neumann ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines? Inertia. On 5/2/2019 7:00 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote: Here's a question: Why do French prints have 5 lines for the 6 course instrument? Early manuscripts like Pesaro (but not all of them, like BSB Mus. Ms. 2987) already employ six lines. While 5 lines in Ms. can be explained by the use of the same 5-point pen used for the lines of staff notation, I wonder why this is also occuring in prints? In type-set prints, you need to make different types for staff and tab notation, so why keep 5 lines? :) T* To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Klosmann
Where did you fine the three copies? How? -Original Message- From: Rainer To: lute Sent: Sat, May 4, 2019 12:32 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: Klosmann Dear Arthur, Eitner was wrong. At least three part books have survived and are on-line. It contains Dowland concordances, pieces stolen form Terpsichore and other well known music. In the table of contents he claims "Sequuntur cantiones incertorum autorum, quibus voces intermediae ab authore huius operis adiectae sunt." Which implies that he at least composed additional voices for some pieces. Therefore he cannot have been a mere publisher. Apart from these additional voices the book does not seem to contain any music composed by Klosmann(?). Rainer On 04.05.2019 17:11, Arthur Ness wrote: > The publisher is Caspar Klosman in Leipzig. An anthology with 100 dances, fantasias, canzonas, et cetera. Unique copy (according to Robert Eitner: Musik-Sammelwerke [1905?], pp. 269-270) in Liegnitz, Ritterakademie. TENOR partbook only. Eitner1622b. I couldn't find it in RISM online or in Recueils imprimés (1960). > > bibliographieder00eitn_0269.jpg > bibliographieder00eitn_0270.jpg > > > > -Original Message- > From: Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de> > To: Lute net <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Sat, May 4, 2019 4:40 am > Subject: [LUTE] Klosmann > > Dear lute netters, > > does anybody know anything about Caspar Klosmann and/or his "Amoenitatum musicalium hortulus..." published in 1622? > > There is almost nothing on the Internet and even nothing in Jstor. > > Rainer > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines?
Printers were very dependent on the fonts they had - In the Ballard book, the bar lines clearly use a single font (i.e. piece of metal...) with a vertical bar and 6 horizontal dashes extending on both sides. In Dowland's Book of ayrs, the barlines extend up and down from the staff in notation, but are too short in the tablature. See: http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/img/can-she-excuse.png It seems to me probable that the printers used at least some of the same type case for both notation and tablature (i.e. whenever possible ...). A 5-line tablature staff and a 5-line notation staff are not that different, after all. This could considerably reduce the cost of production as well as space in the workshop. This is just speculation on my part, but it could be interesting to look at prints with both notation and tablature (Il Fronimo, English books of airs, as well as Phalese) . Printers fonts were extremely valuable, and if I remember correctly could be used for decades if not centuries. Note the same "fishbone" pattern for barlines as in Ballard and Booke of Ayres in notation in Phalese's Luculentum theatrum musicum - that extend both above and below the staff. (facsimile: http://rosdok.uni-rostock.de/resolve/id/rosdok_document_008942) On 5/4/19 9:06 AM, Denys Stephens wrote: Dear Alain, Thanks! Thanks also for the link to the Ballard print - it really is very elegant. Single impression tablature had come a long way from Attaingnant's first ground breaking prints. One more point about Phalese crossed my mind, which is that in prints such as 'Hortus Musarum' he pirates pieces from Italian prints and converts them from the six line Italian tablature to his own five line system, which I think makes it clear that he is deliberately choosing the five line format despite being aware that the Italian prints use six. In Hortus Musarum the efficient use of space together with its portrait format means that longer pieces can be accommodated on one opening of the print. So for example a fantasia by Marco Dall'Aquila that requires two page turns in Casteliono fits on one and a half pages and still leaves room for another short fantasia. From a swift thumb through of my copy, it looks like there are no pieces in Hortus Musarum that require a page turn. Very player fri! endly! This seems to be an intentional improvement by Phalese on his earlier lute prints where he used the landscape format commonly found in Italian lute prints - this does result in longer pieces requiring page turns. Thanks again & best wishes, Denys -Original Message- From: Alain Veylit Sent: 04 May 2019 01:19 To: Denys Stephens ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines? Great explanation, Denys :) Paper was the most expensive part of publishing for a long time, and I saw somewhere that German tab was appreciated for saving vertical space on the page. I am transcribing pieces from Dowland's First booke of Ayres, and I find it amazing what those printers managed to do with the tools they had. Though, esthetically speaking, Ballard has my preference: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b52506298g/f15.image . It's a work of art as much as the music, and it probably did come cheap... By the way, Phalese was Dutch, not French. French books were generally more luxurious than in England or Holland, and French music publishers switched to engraving fairly early in the 17th century. Alain On 5/3/19 1:40 PM, Denys Stephens wrote: I was intrigued by this question. Phalese is one of the most prolific users of a five line stave for lute tablature, and looking at his prints suggest several reasons why he did it. In single impression printing of tablature the tab lines are integral with the letters, and it's surprising in the music in the Phalese prints how relatively infrequently notes occur on the sixth course (in comparison to the higher courses). So leaving out the lowest line saves some typesetting. But it also allows the staves to be placed closer together without looking overwhelmingly cramped. That saves paper and fits more music onto each page. So I would say that it was the most cost effective and efficient way to print the kind of repertoire he was dealing with. Best wishes, Denys -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf Of Dan Winheld Sent: 03 May 2019 03:24 To: Tristan von Neumann ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines? Inertia. On 5/2/2019 7:00 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote: Here's a question: Why do French prints have 5 lines for the 6 course instrument? Early manuscripts like Pesaro (but not all of them, like BSB Mus. Ms. 2987) already employ six lines. While 5 lines in Ms. can be explained by the use of the same 5-point pen used for the lines of staff notation, I wonder why this is also occuring in prints? In type-set prints, you need to make
[LUTE] Re: Klosmann
Indeed it is a publication with 4 part books. It seems as if 2 of them have survived in Poland. One, the alto, is online already: http://dlibra.kul.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=15506 But there also seems to be the tenor partbook, but not yet digitized. From the year, this Caspar Klosmann seems to have lived in Leipzig and probably (but this is guessing) was the father of the Caspar Klosmann that lived from 1616 to 1657, in the last years in Wroclaw - there is a portrait of him online ... Klosmann seems to be a publisher and no composer. Best regards Markus Am 04.05.19 um 17:11 schrieb Arthur Ness: --=_Part_1326960_1007781479.1556982707380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The publisher is Caspar Klosman in Leipzig. An anthology with 100 dances, fantasias, canzonas, et cetera. Unique copy (according to Robert Eitner: Musik-Sammelwerke [1905?], pp. 269-270) in Liegnitz, Ritterakademie. TENOR partbook only. Eitner1622b. I couldn't find it in RISM online or in Recueils imprimés (1960).     -Original Message- From: Rainer To: Lute net Sent: Sat, May 4, 2019 4:40 am Subject: [LUTE] Klosmann Dear lute netters, does anybody know anything about Caspar Klosmann and/or his "Amoenitatum musicalium hortulus..." published in 1622? There is almost nothing on the Internet and even nothing in Jstor. Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --=_Part_1326960_1007781479.1556982707380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The publisher is Caspar Klosman in Leipzig. An anthology with 100 dances, fantasias, canzonas, et cetera. Unique copy (according to Robert Eitner: Musik-Sammelwerke [1905?], pp. 269-270) in Liegnitz, Ritterakademie. TENOR partbook only. Eitner1622b. I couldn't find it in RISM online or in Recueils imprimés (1960). -Original Message- From: Rainer rads.bera_g...@t-online.de To: Lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, May 4, 2019 4:40 am Subject: [LUTE] Klosmann Dear lute netters, does anybody know anything about Caspar Klosmann and/or his "Amoenitatum musicalium hortulus..." published in 1622? There is almost nothing on the Internet and even nothing in Jstor. Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html; target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --=_Part_1326960_1007781479.1556982707380-- -- -- *** Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel. 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 ***
[LUTE] Re: Klosmann
Dear Arthur, Eitner was wrong. At least three part books have survived and are on-line. It contains Dowland concordances, pieces stolen form Terpsichore and other well known music. In the table of contents he claims "Sequuntur cantiones incertorum autorum, quibus voces intermediae ab authore huius operis adiectae sunt." Which implies that he at least composed additional voices for some pieces. Therefore he cannot have been a mere publisher. Apart from these additional voices the book does not seem to contain any music composed by Klosmann(?). Rainer On 04.05.2019 17:11, Arthur Ness wrote: The publisher is Caspar Klosman in Leipzig. An anthology with 100 dances, fantasias, canzonas, et cetera. Unique copy (according to Robert Eitner: Musik-Sammelwerke [1905?], pp. 269-270) in Liegnitz, Ritterakademie. TENOR partbook only. Eitner1622b. I couldn't find it in RISM online or in Recueils imprimés (1960). bibliographieder00eitn_0269.jpg bibliographieder00eitn_0270.jpg -Original Message- From: Rainer To: Lute net Sent: Sat, May 4, 2019 4:40 am Subject: [LUTE] Klosmann Dear lute netters, does anybody know anything about Caspar Klosmann and/or his "Amoenitatum musicalium hortulus..." published in 1622? There is almost nothing on the Internet and even nothing in Jstor. Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines?
Dear Alain, Thanks! Thanks also for the link to the Ballard print - it really is very elegant. Single impression tablature had come a long way from Attaingnant's first ground breaking prints. One more point about Phalese crossed my mind, which is that in prints such as 'Hortus Musarum' he pirates pieces from Italian prints and converts them from the six line Italian tablature to his own five line system, which I think makes it clear that he is deliberately choosing the five line format despite being aware that the Italian prints use six. In Hortus Musarum the efficient use of space together with its portrait format means that longer pieces can be accommodated on one opening of the print. So for example a fantasia by Marco Dall'Aquila that requires two page turns in Casteliono fits on one and a half pages and still leaves room for another short fantasia. From a swift thumb through of my copy, it looks like there are no pieces in Hortus Musarum that require a page turn. Very player frien! dly! This seems to be an intentional improvement by Phalese on his earlier lute prints where he used the landscape format commonly found in Italian lute prints - this does result in longer pieces requiring page turns. Thanks again & best wishes, Denys -Original Message- From: Alain Veylit Sent: 04 May 2019 01:19 To: Denys Stephens ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines? Great explanation, Denys :) Paper was the most expensive part of publishing for a long time, and I saw somewhere that German tab was appreciated for saving vertical space on the page. I am transcribing pieces from Dowland's First booke of Ayres, and I find it amazing what those printers managed to do with the tools they had. Though, esthetically speaking, Ballard has my preference: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b52506298g/f15.image . It's a work of art as much as the music, and it probably did come cheap... By the way, Phalese was Dutch, not French. French books were generally more luxurious than in England or Holland, and French music publishers switched to engraving fairly early in the 17th century. Alain On 5/3/19 1:40 PM, Denys Stephens wrote: > I was intrigued by this question. Phalese is one of the most prolific users > of a five line stave for lute tablature, and looking at his prints suggest > several reasons why he did it. In single impression printing of tablature the > tab lines are integral with the letters, and it's surprising in the music in > the Phalese prints how relatively infrequently notes occur on the sixth > course (in comparison to the higher courses). So leaving out the lowest line > saves some typesetting. But it also allows the staves to be placed closer > together without looking overwhelmingly cramped. That saves paper and fits > more music onto each page. So I would say that it was the most cost effective > and efficient way to print the kind of repertoire he was dealing with. > > Best wishes, > > Denys > > > > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf > Of Dan Winheld > Sent: 03 May 2019 03:24 > To: Tristan von Neumann ; > lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines? > > Inertia. > > On 5/2/2019 7:00 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote: >> Here's a question: >> >> Why do French prints have 5 lines for the 6 course instrument? >> >> Early manuscripts like Pesaro (but not all of them, like BSB Mus. Ms. >> 2987) already employ six lines. >> >> While 5 lines in Ms. can be explained by the use of the same 5-point >> pen used for the lines of staff notation, I wonder why this is also >> occuring in prints? >> >> In type-set prints, you need to make different types for staff and >> tab notation, so why keep 5 lines? >> >> >> >> :) >> T* >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > >
[LUTE] Re: Klosmann
--=_Part_1326960_1007781479.1556982707380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The publisher is Caspar Klosman in Leipzig. An anthology with 100 dances, fantasias, canzonas, et cetera. Unique copy (according to Robert Eitner: Musik-Sammelwerke [1905?], pp. 269-270) in Liegnitz, Ritterakademie. TENOR partbook only. Eitner1622b. I couldn't find it in RISM online or in Recueils imprimés (1960).     -Original Message- From: Rainer To: Lute net Sent: Sat, May 4, 2019 4:40 am Subject: [LUTE] Klosmann Dear lute netters, does anybody know anything about Caspar Klosmann and/or his "Amoenitatum musicalium hortulus..." published in 1622? There is almost nothing on the Internet and even nothing in Jstor. Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --=_Part_1326960_1007781479.1556982707380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The publisher is Caspar Klosman in Leipzig. An anthology with 100 dances, fantasias, canzonas, et cetera. Unique copy (according to Robert Eitner: Musik-Sammelwerke [1905?], pp. 269-270) in Liegnitz, Ritterakademie. TENOR partbook only. Eitner1622b. I couldn't find it in RISM online or in Recueils imprimés (1960). -Original Message- From: Rainer rads.bera_g...@t-online.de To: Lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, May 4, 2019 4:40 am Subject: [LUTE] Klosmann Dear lute netters, does anybody know anything about Caspar Klosmann and/or his "Amoenitatum musicalium hortulus..." published in 1622? There is almost nothing on the Internet and even nothing in Jstor. Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html; target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --=_Part_1326960_1007781479.1556982707380-- --
[LUTE] Re: Reymann
I don't know if someone posted it here since last week but here is the pdf of Noctes Musicae. Sorry for wasting bandwidth if I repost it. Best regards Jurgen -- âClose your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.â JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi âââââââ Original Message âââââââ On Thursday, May 2, 2019 8:27 AM, Dan Winheld wrote: > Congratulations Tristan and Magnus- you have gotten me interested in > getting Reymann's "Noctes"; unfortunately my eyesight has degraded to > the point where I can no longer read facsimiles. Are there any modern > typeset editions? (Any tab system or pitch notation- just has to be > legible to ancient eyes) > Thanks for any leads- > Dan > > On 4/26/2019 10:19 PM, magnus andersson wrote: > > > Dear Tristan, > > > > I have played some Reymann in concert. His Noctes collection is indeed > > one of the finest collections of lute music that's come down to us. > > > > His galliardas are among the the most virtuouso pieces in the whole > > repertoire. > > > > He must have been a very accomplished musician! > > > > I hope to record some of his music in the future. His Cythara sacra is > > a great pendant to Noctes. Much more meditative and less technically > > demanding. > > > > Best, > > > > Magnus > > [1]Skickat frÃÆÃÂ¥n Yahoo Mail fÃÆör iPhone > > > > Den fredag, april 26, 2019, 10:29 em, skrev Tristan von Neumann > > : > > > > Just got my hands on Noctes Musicae 1598 by Matthaeus Reymann. > > > > Has anyone played it? > > > > I am amazed that there is absolutely no recording of this amazing very > > > > original music. > > > > The collection has huge choral and other fantasies with lots of great > > > > ideas, and especially pavans that rival the fantastic treatment of > > > > Daniel Batchelar's - these aren't dances anymore, but fantasies ordered > > > > by the pavan model. > > > > The best thing: the difficulty is not that high compared to the effect: > > > > the fingering is very logical and doesn't distract from the beauty of > > > > the pieces. > > > > Huge recommendation. > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- > > > > > > References > > > > 1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS > > 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > --
[LUTE] Klosmann
Dear lute netters, does anybody know anything about Caspar Klosmann and/or his "Amoenitatum musicalium hortulus..." published in 1622? There is almost nothing on the Internet and even nothing in Jstor. Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines?
It's a possibility. Phalèse was known for pirating more luxurious tabs for wider audience in Flanders, thus saving space would be a fitting explanation. Yet, Italian printers with the same goal did not use only 5 lines, so why again is that? Was Phalèse an exceptional cheapskate? :) Interestingly, a purchasing power analysis (for England, because the data was available) I once made showed that a lute book (like a table book) would have called the same price it does today. It cost as much as 100 eggs or a small barrel of beer or several pounds of beef. Compared to income, the average craftsman would have to save money from only a few days of income to buy an album. Since only a few books are published per year, this seems affordable for a wide audience. The real price revolution we have today is in the distribution of recordings. Does anyone have a price list from Gardano, Morlaye et al.? I would love to check those if they were more expensive. Also it would be interesting to have some prices for Bésard, Mertel, Adriaenssen, Denss, Fuhrmann etc. because those were big compilations, like a "CD box set". Were they less expensive considering the long "running time"? That's another interesting thing: most albums contain music that lasts about 60-90 mins, or sometimes less. Though there was no technical restriction in recording space on the medium. For example, Francis Pilkington's debut album contained 22 tracks. Singing every stanza may lead to a slightly longer playing time, I haven't tried. And then the copyright - up to only 10 years of privilege meant that that the music could only be obtained exclusively for a relatively short time. So coming up with something interesting and new was more important because one could not rely on exclusivity after that. And pirating music with expired privileges was a good way too :) How could those people survive...? Copying the music by hand was no crime, and it only depended on care if you have a perfect transfer of musical information. It also seems that musicians were paid a good sum of money once, not a few dimes everytime someone buys the album... good times :) On 04.05.19 02:18, Alain Veylit wrote: Great explanation, Denys :) Paper was the most expensive part of publishing for a long time, and I saw somewhere that German tab was appreciated for saving vertical space on the page. I am transcribing pieces from Dowland's First booke of Ayres, and I find it amazing what those printers managed to do with the tools they had. Though, esthetically speaking, Ballard has my preference: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b52506298g/f15.image . It's a work of art as much as the music, and it probably did come cheap... By the way, Phalese was Dutch, not French. French books were generally more luxurious than in England or Holland, and French music publishers switched to engraving fairly early in the 17th century. Alain On 5/3/19 1:40 PM, Denys Stephens wrote: I was intrigued by this question. Phalese is one of the most prolific users of a five line stave for lute tablature, and looking at his prints suggest several reasons why he did it. In single impression printing of tablature the tab lines are integral with the letters, and it's surprising in the music in the Phalese prints how relatively infrequently notes occur on the sixth course (in comparison to the higher courses). So leaving out the lowest line saves some typesetting. But it also allows the staves to be placed closer together without looking overwhelmingly cramped. That saves paper and fits more music onto each page. So I would say that it was the most cost effective and efficient way to print the kind of repertoire he was dealing with. Best wishes, Denys -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf Of Dan Winheld Sent: 03 May 2019 03:24 To: Tristan von Neumann ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines? Inertia. On 5/2/2019 7:00 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote: Here's a question: Why do French prints have 5 lines for the 6 course instrument? Early manuscripts like Pesaro (but not all of them, like BSB Mus. Ms. 2987) already employ six lines. While 5 lines in Ms. can be explained by the use of the same 5-point pen used for the lines of staff notation, I wonder why this is also occuring in prints? In type-set prints, you need to make different types for staff and tab notation, so why keep 5 lines? :) T* To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
