[LUTE] Re: Dürer's African Man and Neusiedler's weird dances
On May 22, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Tristan von Neumann
wrote:
> But then I played a "Court Dance" from Hans Neusidler's book.
>
> The guy next to me said - "Hey, this is our culture! I know this!".
>
> I was confused, and put this into the "universal music" box.
>
> Today, I played through Vol. 6 of Wurstisen (just came out, thanks
> Sarge) and found the same dance.
>
> And what do you know - it is called "Der Schwartzknab" ("The Black Boy")
> there.
>
> That's definitely two totally separate hints that the dance may be of
> West African origin.
Why not? Some form of a jig named for the Canary Islands (as west as Africa
gets) was known throughout Europe. There were all sorts of contacts between
Europe and West Africa, many of them bad for the Africans, to be sure.
> Albrecht Dürer once drew an African Man in 1508, a real portrait,
And a 1521 portrait of an African woman named Katherina, who was a servant in
Antwerp. Both can be seen at:
http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2012/10/black-man-and-woman-in-16th-century.html
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Antonio Reggio (1725-1780)
Anthony Hart has done work on Reggio. Here are some links: Anthony Hart MSc, LLCM,ALCM. Musicologist and Independent Researcher Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA Mob: +356 9944 9552. e-mail: [2][1]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web: [3]www.monsignor-reggio.com NEW Publications: EDIZIONE ANTONINO REGGIO - [4]www.edizionear.com for information and special offer -- References 1. [2]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links 2. mailto:[3]resea...@antoninoreggio.com 3. [4]http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ 4. [5]http://www.edizionear.com/ On Thursday, 23 May 2019, 00:23:21 BST, Edward Martin wrote: Dear ones, I am wondering if anyone on the list has experience with the works of Antonio Reggio (1725 to 1780). He apparently left some music for cello and lute, and apparently there are 6 duets in C, a minor, D major, f minor, f# minor, and g minor. Has anyone played these pieces, and are they of high quality? Thanks, Ed -- To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com 2. http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links 3. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com 4. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ 5. http://www.edizionear.com/ 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dürer's African Man and Neusiedler's weird dances
West African origin - almost as certain as Tristan is living on the dark side of the moon. Anybody interested in the Hoftanz should have a look at the famous articles be Gombosi (a bit old) and Heartz. I am not aware of any text for the Schwarzknab, but schwarz certainly refers to the colour of the hair. Rainer PS: Andi should know more To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Antonio Reggio (1725-1780)
Thank you Martyn, This is indeed most helpful. Ed On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 3:21 AM Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: Anthony Hart has done work on Reggio. Here are some links: Anthony Hart MSc, LLCM,ALCM. Musicologist and Independent Researcher Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA Mob: +356 9944 9552. e-mail: [2][1][2]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web: [3][3]www.monsignor-reggio.com NEW Publications: EDIZIONE ANTONINO REGGIO - [4][4]www.edizionear.com for information and special offer -- References 1. [2][5]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links 2. mailto:[3][6]resea...@antoninoreggio.com 3. [4][7]http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ 4. [5][8]http://www.edizionear.com/ On Thursday, 23 May 2019, 00:23:21 BST, Edward Martin <[9]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote: Dear ones, I am wondering if anyone on the list has experience with the works of Antonio Reggio (1725 to 1780). He apparently left some music for cello and lute, and apparently there are 6 duets in C, a minor, D major, f minor, f# minor, and g minor. Has anyone played these pieces, and are they of high quality? Thanks, Ed -- To get on or off this list see list information at [6][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[11]resea...@antoninoreggio.com 2. [12]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links 3. mailto:[13]resea...@antoninoreggio.com 4. [14]http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ 5. [15]http://www.edizionear.com/ 6. [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com 3. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ 4. http://www.edizionear.com/ 5. http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links 6. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com 7. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ 8. http://www.edizionear.com/ 9. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com 12. http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links 13. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com 14. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ 15. http://www.edizionear.com/ 16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dürer's African Man and Neusiedler's weird dances
Geez Rainer, can you be more arrogant? At least enlighten me with the conclusions of Gombosii and Heartz and on what those are based. I am sick of getting referred to paywalled articles. I was reporting this intercultural incident, not claiming this is really true. But as Howard said, I was thinking, why not? West Africa has been a trade partner with the Portuguese since the 15th century, and maybe you all know the depiction of a completely African Musica Alta group. http://www.scottishjournalofperformance.org/De-Oliveira-Alves_trombone-portuguese-iconography_image-3.jpg I was trying to make sense of "this is our culture". Those guys have never encountered a Renaissance lute, but they recognized the music, why? On 23.05.19 10:46, Rainer wrote: West African origin - almost as certain as Tristan is living on the dark side of the moon. Anybody interested in the Hoftanz should have a look at the famous articles be Gombosi (a bit old) and Heartz. I am not aware of any text for the Schwarzknab, but schwarz certainly refers to the colour of the hair. Rainer PS: Andi should know more To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Antonio Reggio (1725-1780)
Hi Ed, I met Anthony in Malta over a beer last year! He is a very nice person and he knows everything about Reggio which he edited ! Best, Jean-Marie-Marie > Le 23 mai 2019 à 14:14, Edward Martin a écrit : > > Thank you Martyn, This is indeed most helpful. > Ed > > On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 3:21 AM Martyn Hodgson > <[1]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: > >Anthony Hart has done work on Reggio. Here are some links: > Anthony Hart MSc, LLCM,ALCM. > Musicologist and Independent Researcher > Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, > MALTA > Mob: +356 9944 9552. > e-mail: [2][1][2]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web: > [3][3]www.monsignor-reggio.com > NEW Publications: EDIZIONE ANTONINO REGGIO > - [4][4]www.edizionear.com > for information and special offer > -- >References > 1. [2][5]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links > 2. mailto:[3][6]resea...@antoninoreggio.com > 3. [4][7]http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ > 4. [5][8]http://www.edizionear.com/ >On Thursday, 23 May 2019, 00:23:21 BST, Edward Martin ><[9]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear ones, > I am wondering if anyone on the list has experience with the > works of > Antonio Reggio (1725 to 1780). He apparently left some music > for > cello and lute, and apparently there are 6 duets in C, a minor, > D > major, f minor, f# minor, and g minor. > Has anyone played these pieces, and are they of high quality? > Thanks, > Ed > -- >To get on or off this list see list information at >[6][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >-- > References >1. mailto:[11]resea...@antoninoreggio.com >2. [12]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links >3. mailto:[13]resea...@antoninoreggio.com >4. [14]http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ >5. [15]http://www.edizionear.com/ >6. [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu > 2. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com > 3. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ > 4. http://www.edizionear.com/ > 5. http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links > 6. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com > 7. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ > 8. http://www.edizionear.com/ > 9. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com > 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 11. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com > 12. http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links > 13. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com > 14. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/ > 15. http://www.edizionear.com/ > 16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: Antonio Reggio (1725-1780)
Ed, I have performed Sonatas 1 (C) and 2 (Fm) as solos (incorporating the bass) on archlute. I like these, and they were well received. It’s a great story that these were so recently (re)discovered by Anthony Hart. Mr. Hart had generously offered samples to this list for a limited time in 2015. (Unfortunately Sonata 3 in D was missing a page, but I found it less interesting than Sonatas 1 and 2.) There are some YouTube performances of Reggio’s music. One with lute and cello, another with lute and organ continuo. There are also examples of his cello duets, and vocal music. — Rocky > On May 22, 2019, at 4:00 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > > Dear ones, > I am wondering if anyone on the list has experience with the works of > Antonio Reggio (1725 to 1780). He apparently left some music for > cello and lute, and apparently there are 6 duets in C, a minor, D > major, f minor, f# minor, and g minor. > Has anyone played these pieces, and are they of high quality? > Thanks, > Ed > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Antonio Reggio (1725-1780)
I had experience with that music. I've recorded 1st and 2nd with organ, played it in concerts with harpsichord and another archlute. I also did some guitar solo and guitar duo arrangements of several sonatas for Anthony Hart and played some of them on XIX c. guitar. I read through more or less all 24 lute sonatas. Some of them are very interesting. In the average the music is of interesting transitional style and good quality. There are some signs of old style, like 2-part form close to Scarlatti Sonatas or Bach-Sons pieces. The manner of working with material is mostly old-fashioned for 70s' when Haydn and Mozart were flourished, but the musical material itself sounds more close to those vienna classics with some interesting haromies of very 'fresh' style linked to me with Mozart or even Schubert (f-minor sonata particulary, find the link below). After playing with harpsichord and archlute I came to conclusion, that texture is missing in this music. There is a lot of fast contrasts in material which must be supported with different types of texture in accompaniment: choral chords in 1st bar, arpeggios in the 2nd and counterpoint in 3rd... Using similar kind of melodies and harmonies Mozart wrote such a texture contrasts out carefully in his sonatas. Reggio uses outdated manner of spelling and leave musicians to improvise it. (So, the organ is not the best instrument for accompaniment here and my first recordings are not satisfying, I'm still thinking of re-recording this music with new ideas) There are lots of question for me regarding this music. The first is what instrument Reggio called lute? It's written in treble clef and in high tessitura. Should it sound octave lower, like classical guitar does? In this case some places occurs where lower note in the lute part are lower than bass part. May be it's some little instrument with high tunings? - So, this places with doubtful voice leading will be solved, but may be this doubtful voice leading is just composer's error? What kind of tuning is involved? May be different tunings? Some chords written out very comfortable for classical guitar tuning (but also for archlute in A), some are written way to low even for archlute in G. There is a sonatas in terrible keys for lute... That's all are very interesting and I highly recommend to play Reggio. He is worth of it. So here are my recordings: F-minor [1]https://youtu.be/efGYZtcx04Y C-major [2]https://youtu.be/AI5Yjel4V7c Cheers, Konstantin -- References 1. https://youtu.be/efGYZtcx04Y 2. https://youtu.be/AI5Yjel4V7c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Antonio Reggio (1725-1780)
Very nice music Konstantine, and well played. Thank you for sharing this along with your observations. Best, ed On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 2:13 PM Konstantin Shchenikov <[1]konstantin.n...@gmail.com> wrote: I had experience with that music. I've recorded 1st and 2nd with organ, played it in concerts with harpsichord and another archlute. I also did some guitar solo and guitar duo arrangements of several sonatas for Anthony Hart and played some of them on XIX c. guitar. I read through more or less all 24 lute sonatas. Some of them are very interesting. In the average the music is of interesting transitional style and good quality. There are some signs of old style, like 2-part form close to Scarlatti Sonatas or Bach-Sons pieces. The manner of working with material is mostly old-fashioned for 70s' when Haydn and Mozart were flourished, but the musical material itself sounds more close to those vienna classics with some interesting haromies of very 'fresh' style linked to me with Mozart or even Schubert (f-minor sonata particulary, find the link below). After playing with harpsichord and archlute I came to conclusion, that texture is missing in this music. There is a lot of fast contrasts in material which must be supported with different types of texture in accompaniment: choral chords in 1st bar, arpeggios in the 2nd and counterpoint in 3rd... Using similar kind of melodies and harmonies Mozart wrote such a texture contrasts out carefully in his sonatas. Reggio uses outdated manner of spelling and leave musicians to improvise it. (So, the organ is not the best instrument for accompaniment here and my first recordings are not satisfying, I'm still thinking of re-recording this music with new ideas) There are lots of question for me regarding this music. The first is what instrument Reggio called lute? It's written in treble clef and in high tessitura. Should it sound octave lower, like classical guitar does? In this case some places occurs where lower note in the lute part are lower than bass part. May be it's some little instrument with high tunings? - So, this places with doubtful voice leading will be solved, but may be this doubtful voice leading is just composer's error? What kind of tuning is involved? May be different tunings? Some chords written out very comfortable for classical guitar tuning (but also for archlute in A), some are written way to low even for archlute in G. There is a sonatas in terrible keys for lute... That's all are very interesting and I highly recommend to play Reggio. He is worth of it. So here are my recordings: F-minor [1][2]https://youtu.be/efGYZtcx04Y C-major [2][3]https://youtu.be/AI5Yjel4V7c Cheers, Konstantin -- References 1. [4]https://youtu.be/efGYZtcx04Y 2. [5]https://youtu.be/AI5Yjel4V7c To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:konstantin.n...@gmail.com 2. https://youtu.be/efGYZtcx04Y 3. https://youtu.be/AI5Yjel4V7c 4. https://youtu.be/efGYZtcx04Y 5. https://youtu.be/AI5Yjel4V7c 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] experiences with Aquila new synthetic fret gut
Hello there, Aquila has new (I don't know how new) synthetic fret gut available on their website. [1]http://aquilacorde.com/old/early-music-strings/early-music-products/ 135/frets-gut-tailpieces/?lang=en The cost is almost half price from real fret gut and I wonder if anybody here on the list has used them yet and would be willing to share his/her appreciation. Thank you very much, Jürgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-Dën Muhammad Rumi References 1. http://aquilacorde.com/old/early-music-strings/early-music-products/135/frets-gut-tailpieces/?lang=en To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
