[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Pitch center on a 10 cs. lute
Hi Paul There is a useful explanation of the breaking limits for strings on the Aquila website: http://www.aquilacorde.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=41&I temid=1384&lang=en Look for point 13 - however please note that the discussion is based on the old Nylgut material - according to their page on "New Nylgut" the breaking index for this is significantly higher than for the old version. This would seem to indicate that it would be possible to string a 65cm G-lute to A440 using New Nylgut - has anyone had first-hand experience of this? On the more general issue of pitch, is there any specific reason for wanting to tune it to A440 (I am assuming that you are talking about it being nominally a G lute)? As Bill indicated, if you'll be playing solo mainly it doesn't really matter, and it's possible you might find the instrument of that size may work better at a lower pitch. Also, if you work with singers the lower pitch can be more comfortable for the voice. Best wishes Din -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of William Samson Sent: 01 January 2013 20:42 To: Paul Daverman; lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Pitch center on a 10 cs. lute Hi Paul, I have a 10c lute of 66cm scale. The highest I can take it with a nylon chanterelle (the strongest material) is f# at A440 - and that's really pushing it. I normally keep it at f. Even at f, with a nylgut chanterelle, it tends to break quite frequently, which is why I use nylon for that one string. Of course f at A440 is the same as g at A392 and as I normally play it solo it doesn't matter a bit. It makes no difference how thick or thin the chanterelle is (for a given material), it will always tend to break at the same pitch, so substituting a string of different diameter won't help. So the problem isn't one of overstressing the lute if you tune it at A440, it's the impossibility of finding a string material for the chanterelle to take that pitch. For the record, A415 is a semitone down from A440 and A392 is a whole tone down from A440. Hope that helps! Bill From: Paul Daverman To: lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, 1 January 2013, 20:02 Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Pitch center on a 10 cs. lute I am building a 10 cs. lute per Robert Lundberg's plans (10-cs Renaissance Lute, Dieffopruchar 1612). I am to the point where I have begun looking at strings so that I have an idea of diameters, etc. As this is my first lute build, I am looking at Nylgut and am looking to tune to AD0. One of the suppliers to which I have inquired has said that in A440 tuning, they have no strings at 65cm length that can take the tension for the chanderelle (and that no gut could either.) He said that the instrument was probably meant for A92 and while he could supply strings in either tuning, I'd have to look elsewhere for a string for the chanderelle if I chose A440. I am wondering if any of you can talk to this topic. Would I be over stressing the lute if I tune to the modern tuning of A440? Would A392 have been the intended tuning or maybe A415? What other repercussions of tuning one way vs. another should I know about? My music theory is a bit poor - is the difference between going from A440 tuning to A392 really any different that transposing down a (??) major second? Any word to help get all this straight in my mind would be appreciated. While I understand that "pitch" is all relative, I'm having a difficult time getting my arms around the practical understanding of what I should do for stringing. Thanks. Paul -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Notes on Voboam drawings from Ashmolean
Hi all, Has anyone got a copy of the notes that go with the drawings of the Voboam guitar from the Ashmolean museum? I bought the drawings recently, but unfortunately the museum appear to have misplaced the notes. These refer to various numbered points in the drawings, so it would really be helpful to see them! Steve Barber who did the drawings (and the notes) no longer has a copy either... I'm sure he'd welcome a copy too, if one were to turn up! Keeping my fingers crossed... Din To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Technical drawings
Tim, Over a year ago I bought a drawing of the fluted-back vihuela (E.0748) from the Cite del Musique (www.cite-musique.fr) - it took a fair bit of chasing to get it. Following a revamp of their website, I have not been able to find the list of drawings (with prices) that they had then, although the drawing is still listed as part of their collection - you have to search on "Vihuela" via their search page. Whether this means they no longer sell the drawings or not, I don't know - presumably you would need to contact someone there. The drawing was made by Carlos Gonzalez, an experienced luthier from Spain, and is very detailed. It came with a 15-page description of the instrument (mostly in French), and separate diagrams showing thickness measurements for the front and sides (although I had to get a copy of the one for the front from Carlos as it was missing). Of course it is not a working drawing for actual construction, but together with a degree of guesswork there was enough information for me to make my own working drawing for a scaled-down version of the instrument, and to build one successfully. Regards Din > -Original Message- > From: tam...@buckeye-express.com [mailto:tam...@buckeye-express.com] > Sent: 08 April 2009 17:59 > To: kenp...@comcast.net > Cc: pdxl...@gmail.com; lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Technical drawings > > > > Speaking of which, does anyone know of plans for a vihuela da > mano? I would love to build one for myself some day, but the > closest I've been able to find are plans for a baroque guitar > that I would have to adapt for a sixth course. > > Tim > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: cutting the rose.
Laurence, You'll find find very detailed instructions in David's course. I was able to make a very acceptable rose without doing a practice one (apart from practising some basic cutting strokes), using the method and tools he describes. This was in the Renaissance lute course, but I guess it would be much the same in the Baroque version. Regards Din Ghani > -Original Message- > From: Laurence Hall [mailto:hallh...@xs4all.nl] > Sent: 07 March 2009 21:33 > To: lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] cutting the rose. > >Hello everyone, > > > >I'm thinking of taking a shot at David van Edwards "build your own >Baroque lute" course, but, having made an EMS lute 25 > years ago, I made >a complete mess of the rose. I'd like to try to practice this a few >times before I go for the whole thing, but I'm having some > problems. >I've got a piece of Picea Abies to practice on, and I read that an >exacto knife is used for this purpose, after glueing a > paper drawing of >the rose to the prospective soundboard. Is this how most > people do it? >I find it extremely difficult to control (the exacto > knife) and I can't >help feeling I'm missing something. > > > >I looked up some info about chip carving on the web, they > use larger >knives for much the same purpose, only on a much larger > scale than the >detail we're used to in a rose. Can anyone tell me what > the best tools >are for this work? And if it's not too impertinent of me, could you >give a rough sketch of how a professional does it? > > > >Many thanks, > > > > > >Laurence Hall, > >Amsterdam > >-- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE-BUILDER] Upper pegbox construction
Having just received a drawing of the Tieffenbrucker archlute (SAM41/C45) from KHM Vienna, I have been trying to work out how the upper pegbox is joined to the neck extension - it is not apparent from the drawing. Can anyone please point me to any sources of information on this - e.g. are there any other museum drawings for archlutes/theorbo available that show this sort of detail? Bob Lundberg's plan of the Sellas archlute (GAL #23) shows slightly more detail but still not quite enough - and this aspect of construction is not mentioned in his book. I was particularly intrigued by Lynda Sayce's comment on her theorbo website (http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Structural.htm) where she says that upper pegboxes were typically constructed with some complicated joint that allowed string tension to pull the joint together. Given time, I can probably work out something to this effect, but it would be useful to know how the Old Ones did it... Any pointers gratefully received. Regards, Din Ghani To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute construction
Hi Troy, In further response to your original posting re: minimum requirements, here is a list of the tools I acquired/made in order to make my first lute from scratch (mostly following David van Edwards's CDROM of instructions). Hopefully this will give you a better idea of how much (or little) you actually need to get started. Some of the items are specific to the methods used - other people have already mentioned alternative approaches. Workbench: a collection of old tables and desks in the garage, some with an old door or discarded kitchen worktop overlaid. To two of these I fitted a vice: it was useful having two while making the bowl as one was occupied full time with the universal joint carrying the mould (see below under Home-made tools). Power tools: - drill press and cordless drill/driver, but you can get away with a hand drill - small bandsaw: I managed to cut rosewood ribs from a turner's blank with this. Generally useful for other cutting tasks (e.g. the sectional slices for the mould), but possibly not essential if you buy pre-cut rib sets (available from various suppliers - David lists a number of these, including some Stateside). - disc sander: again not essential, but very useful again for tasks such as fine adjustment of the mould slice outlines. - belt sander: this was a desperation buy in response to an inability to plane/scrape rosewood ribs down to thickness cleanly and accurately - I made an adjustable sanding jig to hold the sander over a rib at just the right height. Obviously not needed if you don't have this problem, or use other solutions such the Luthier's Friend! - dust extractor, with a hose that can be fitted into the bandsaw, both sanders, as well as an old vacuum cleaner hose suspended above the main work area by an elastic cord. Again this is not essential, but highly recommended! Hand tools: - smoothing plane (Stanley No 4) - block plane (Stanley No 9 1/2): useful for all sorts of tasks, including a tour of duty upside-down in the planing desk (See below). - saws - my collection of Japanese saws grew to 4 by the end of the build, although you really only need one, plus a coping saw. - chisels - two Japanese chisels (wide-ish and narrow-ish), and a large gouge for carving the neck block. - scrapers - rectangular and curved. I also tried making small curved scrapers from bits cut off cast-off Japanese saw blades, but still haven't discovered the knack of sharpening scrapers, let alone curved ones! Still I managed with an off-the-shelf gooseneck scraper for the tasks that needed this. - reamer; 1 in 30 taper from a specialist supplier - knives - specialist luthier's knife used for carving the rose and parts of the bridge, amongst other tasks. - steel rules: 6", 12" and 24". Also a flexible steel rule is useful. - adjustable bevel gauge - G-clamps - "you can never have enough clamps!" - domestic iron - very useful tool for adjusting/undoing glue joints! I happened to have a small traveling iron which was actually acquired for waxing skis, but I suspect a full-blown domestic iron would be more effective in some situations. - waterstones; 3 different grades - honing guide: I ended up with the Veritas MkII, which give good repeatability on the bevel angle, but still requires care on getting the edge square. - glass plate: used both for lapping (with wet-and-dry paper) blade backs and flattening waterstones, and as a flat surface for checking flatness. Home-made or modified tools: - mini-chisel made from a modelling knife by grinding down a narrow blade (using an angle grinder and frequent dipping in water, as I was too mean to invest in a wetstone grinder!) - this was outlined by David as one of the possible approaches to cutting out the holes in the rose. - universal joint, made from MDF, to facilitate working on the mould at different stages of the process. I have actually seen a picture of someone using a heavy-duty camera or telescope tripod instead! - cutters for the rebate on soundboard edge for the half-binding (I nearly didn't bother with the half-binding at all, but after seeing the state of the edge after trimming, decided it was worth the extra effort, even on a first instrument!). David gives instructions for making a cutter for the vertical cut, but says to use a knife freehand to make the horizontal cut. I didn't feel brave enough to do this, so made another similar cutter to make the horizontal cut. I also attempted to make a small rebate plane for this job, but it was not very successful - I'd be interested to hear from Rob as to how he made his! - bending iron - you can obviously buy these, but I made mine using an upturned stainless steel biscuit tin with a 250-watt bulb inside. David shows examples of other approaches to this. - glue pot - a kettle on a small single-ring electric hob with a thermostatic control provides the boiling water, the glue sits in a plastic pudding basin that fits into the kettle, and is covered by the kettle lid which helps
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar
Hi David, Thanks for your response to my query - to me it does make a lot of sense. Compared to the process Rob outlined, it does involve a lot more drawing, and plenty of accurate cutting out, but all working to well-defined parameters... I guess it appeals to the engineer in me! Best regards Din > -Original Message- > From: David Van Edwards [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 05 December 2007 17:18 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: 'Rob Dorsey'; 'Jon Murphy'; 'lute-builder' > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar > > Dear Dan, Din, Jon, Rob etc, > > I have nothing against solid moulds as this shows > http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/moulds.htm > > In practice I use skeleton moulds for lutes with fewer than > 19 ribs and solid moulds for those with more. I find the > skeleton better for aligning ribs while building and they are > certainly quicker to make, which is why I showed them in my > courses. It even has historic precedent in the Arnault of > Zwolle manuscript. There are no historic moulds surviving, so > for all we know the original makers all used skeleton moulds, > though not in MDF, that horrid but useful material! > > However in answer to Din's query I normally build up my solid > moulds in exactly the same way as the skeletons but with each > cross-section defined on paper first, which ensures the shape > remains as designed and allows me to make then hollow at the > same time. This makes the large theorbo moulds light enough > to handle with ease. After the cross-sections are all glued > up, the protruding corners are simply chiselled off leaving > the exact mould shape, as I show in the lower picture. It's a > nice metaphor to think of carving the air space and in fact > that's what I'm doing, but on paper first. Perhaps I'm more > used to seeing the 3D shape within the drawings having done > it so much. > > Thirty years ago, when I first started, I used to build > without a mould in just the way Dan describes (following Ian > Harwood, who I think first came up with the idea) and it's > certainly a very quick method. But it's difficult (but not > impossible if you build a jig for each rib) to build the more > complex shapes which are not semi-circular in cross-section > and only a few of the historic surviving lutes are like that. > Most involve twisted and assymetric ribs and I came to prefer > these shapes, hence the large number of moulds. > > As ever there are many routes to the same end. > > Best wishes, > > David > > > At 16:25 + 4/12/07, Din Ghani wrote: > >Jon, > > > >I wish I had your carving skills - next time I make a lute > I'd like to > >try a solid mould, but the thought of producing a complex shape with > >accurately curved lines and surfaces out of a lump of wood terrifies > >me! I'm sure with your experience of carving you will be > able to work out how to go about it. > > > >I just about managed to carve the neck block with fairly accurate > >facets, following detailed instructions from David, and > using the lines > >and facets from the completed mould to guide the carving. > >Unfortunately, as far as I can see, Lundberg's book does not even > >mention how the facets on the mould are cut. Rob, I hope you > might be > >able to give me a clue, having learnt directly from him. I > assume there > >is a systematic method, not relying just on a steady hand > and a sharp eye? > > > >At heart, I guess I'm more of an engineer than a craftsman... > > > >Regards > > > >Din > > > > > > > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Rob Dorsey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: 04 December 2007 14:22 > >> To: 'Jon Murphy'; 'lute-builder' > >> Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar > >> > >> Jon, > >> > >> I've made molds from pine lumber which works fine albeit > harder to > >> carve but the best is bass wood or boxwood. > >> Basswood carves like butter and is easy to finish. As an > >> avant-garde touch, you can carve the mould without facets so that > >> the number of ribs can be varied or a multi-rib (39 or > >> so) can be made if you're feeling particularly industrious. > >> > >> Best, > >> Rob Dorsey > >> http://RobDorsey.com > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Jon Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: Tuesday,
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute construction
Troy, It does depend on what method you will be following. If you do go with DvE's CDROM, he includes a whole section on the minimum kit you need for his method. He also give a lot of advice and hints on using various tools in various tasks. Getting and keeping your tools sharp is probably one of the key success factors, and he provides another section on this (including sharpening scrapers - although I have yet to master this!). Regarding a workbench, I think you need as much work area as you can get (but then I'm a messy worker!). In any case, you'll find yourself colonizing the kitchen table and other domestic spaces for various tasks... Hope this helps Din > -Original Message- > From: Troy Wheeler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 05 December 2007 12:17 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Lute construction > > > So gentleman, > > if there is a minimum regarding tools needed to get started such as: > > work bench (any particular size?) > carving tools > measuring tools > planes > > what would that minimum be? > > Best Regards > > TW > _ > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download > today it's FREE! > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sha > relife_112007 > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar
Rob, Many thanks for sharing that. It may not be rocket science, but it is precisely this sort of detailed know-how, often hard-won through long experience, when generously shared as you have just done, and as David van Edwards has done through his various courses, that makes all the difference to a diffident beginner like me. I now have a clearer picture of that part of the process, a picture that I know will become fully clear only when I actually get to the stage of trying to do it - which will be a while yet, as the vihuela I'm attempting next will require a somewhat simpler mould! Best regards Din > -Original Message- > From: Rob Dorsey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 04 December 2007 18:54 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Jon Murphy'; 'lute-builder' > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar > > Din, > > Here's how to do the magic. As you know, walking on water is > actually quite easy if one knows where the rocks and stumps > are. In this case they are composed of two or three card > templates derived from a drawing. If you don't have plans > with sectional views (vertical cuts through the body at > precise points) then you will need construct them by drawing > the body in side view and front view. Due to the shape of the > body, a front view will be in perspective with the small > block end in the foreground and the maximum girth making up > the largest part of the drawing. On this view you have drawn > the edges of the facets beginning at a point in front of the > block and extending to the perimeter of the drawing. If you > started your drawing with a smooth curve you may now connect > the facet lines and, voila', the form of the ribs. From this > perspective view so segmented you may now fashion templates > which match the facets, i.e. an inside cutout with flats > which correspond to the outline of the body at a certain > point. One should be at the thickest point of the body shell > - the faceted outline of your drawing - and another about > half way, no precisely half way, between the drawing edge and > the block. > > Now, as you carve the mould you can apply these templates to > the shape. You will find that using a felt marker to draw the > edges of the facets in as you go, understanding that you will > most probably carve them away and need to redraw. Once you > have the whole mold carved - and please, please do not get > too anal here, this is really not rocket science. Believe it > or not instrument build is a pretty forgiving medium - you > cam saw off the block end creating a flat onto which you can > screw the basswood block wood. Once you do, you can see how > the facets on the block are merely extensions of the body > facets. It is things like this which keep me carving solid moulds. > > Hope this helps, > Rob Dorsey > http://RobDorsey.com > > -Original Message- > From: Din Ghani [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 11:26 AM > To: 'Rob Dorsey'; 'Jon Murphy'; 'lute-builder' > Subject: RE: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar > > Jon, > > I wish I had your carving skills - next time I make a lute > I'd like to try a solid mould, but the thought of producing a > complex shape with accurately curved lines and surfaces out > of a lump of wood terrifies me! I'm sure with your experience > of carving you will be able to work out how to go about it. > > I just about managed to carve the neck block with fairly > accurate facets, following detailed instructions from David, > and using the lines and facets from the completed mould to > guide the carving. Unfortunately, as far as I can see, > Lundberg's book does not even mention how the facets on the > mould are cut. Rob, I hope you might be able to give me a > clue, having learnt directly from him. I assume there is a > systematic method, not relying just on a steady hand and a sharp eye? > > At heart, I guess I'm more of an engineer than a craftsman... > > Regards > > Din > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar
Jon, I wish I had your carving skills - next time I make a lute I'd like to try a solid mould, but the thought of producing a complex shape with accurately curved lines and surfaces out of a lump of wood terrifies me! I'm sure with your experience of carving you will be able to work out how to go about it. I just about managed to carve the neck block with fairly accurate facets, following detailed instructions from David, and using the lines and facets from the completed mould to guide the carving. Unfortunately, as far as I can see, Lundberg's book does not even mention how the facets on the mould are cut. Rob, I hope you might be able to give me a clue, having learnt directly from him. I assume there is a systematic method, not relying just on a steady hand and a sharp eye? At heart, I guess I'm more of an engineer than a craftsman... Regards Din > -Original Message- > From: Rob Dorsey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 04 December 2007 14:22 > To: 'Jon Murphy'; 'lute-builder' > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar > > Jon, > > I've made molds from pine lumber which works fine albeit > harder to carve but the best is bass wood or boxwood. > Basswood carves like butter and is easy to finish. As an > avant-garde touch, you can carve the mould without facets so > that the number of ribs can be varied or a multi-rib (39 or > so) can be made if you're feeling particularly industrious. > > Best, > Rob Dorsey > http://RobDorsey.com > > -Original Message- > From: Jon Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:08 AM > To: lute-builder > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar > > All, > > I think Rob has convinced me to can my skeletal form and make > a solid one. I like the idea of sculpting the air within the > body, and as a woodcarver I have all the tools and skills for > shaping a solid form. The confidence I'll gain from having > the form fully shaped will probably get me off my butt to > make the body of my incipient lute. > > Dan's method is attractive in the apparent speed of the > process, but I doubt I could accomplish it without being > "hands on" at his workshop (which is tempting, but June is a > long time away). > > Best, Jon > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar
Jon, I splashed out on the Lundberg book fairly late - after the bowl was finished. As you say, it is a useful cross-reference, and informed the rest of the build. However, I think one should take great care if any cross-fertilization happens - it is not always possible to mix and match different parts of the process. David warns of this in one specific, critical area - the way the neck is fitted to the body to achieve the correct action height. I fell foul of this in a less critical area - while carving the (Gerle) rose I misinterpreted David's instructions as I had just read Lundberg's description of his process, and made larger cuts than I should have in certain areas. Luckily the result was still "good enough", and possibly added to the "liveliness" of the carving! Similarly, regarding the mould (as it is called here in the UK :)), I'm not sure that the difference between the toastrack type and the solid form is as major as the difference in the processes involved in bending, shaping and fitting the ribs. Lundberg's method involves trimming and fitting the edges in situ, and cutting the bevel by eye using a rebate plane and a file. David's uses a planing desk to cut the bevelled edges on a pre-bent rib. Not having tried the Lundberg method, I can't comment on which is easier or better, but like everything else, it's a matter of practice - the later joints will probably come out better than the earlier ones! Yes, it was scary at first, and getting the joins right while having the rib flat all along the mould was quite a challenge - it takes a while to work out where to adjust next. I know you've already cut and thicknessed the ribs - hope you've got enough spare, and that you aren't too bothered about figure matching - having a margin for making mistakes and starting again is very important! One thing to watch for though, if you do carry on with the toastrack, is to check that the corners of the facets on each slice do line up properly. I was too impatient in building my mould and ended up with some misalignments which made the subsequent rib-fitting even more trying. Possibly this might be less of a problem with a solid mould? By the way, the planing desk also doubled as a jointing plane for the soundboard, just by adding a fence! The other bit of advice is - make sure the mould is well waxed! I don't think I put on enough (or it might have something to do with the fact that many of the ribs had been on the mould for four years!) as I had the classic problem of the bowl not wanting to come off the mould! This might be another advantage of the toastrack style of mould - I ended up breaking and removing the slices of the rack from inside (relatively easy with the MDF construction) until I was able to lift the bowl. I wasn't too dismayed at having to destroy the mould, given the misalignments I mentioned earlier - in any case my next project is going to be a vihuela! I've wondered since whether Lundberg's instruction to break loose any surplus glue under the last rib to be glued, just before gluring the next one, would have helped to avoid this happening... There's plenty to learn, from any source - you'll find out what works for you only when you start doing it! There'll be plenty of mistakes and mishaps along the way, but it is amazing what you can get away with - looking at my finished lute it would take a knowledgeable eye to spot my "deliberate mistakes" - and there were many... Best wishes Din > -Original Message- > From: Jon Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 03 December 2007 05:50 > To: Rob Dorsey; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Troy Wheeler'; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar > > Rob, > > I envy you your 5 years of study with Bob Lundberg, and have > no quarrel with his methods to the extent that they are > represented in his book. I'm glad to have the book on my > shelves as a cross reference and backup to David van Edwards' > course. I don't regret the "dual expenditure" in having both, > although I probably would have gotten Bob's book later - > after my first completed lute from David's CD. > > You make a good point, start cutting wood. David's CD is far > more a step by step instructional than Bob's book - perhaps > it is that aspect that makes it easier to break through that > first block of getting started. On the other hand Bob's book > (I just pulled it from my shelves and glanced through it) is > a bit more general, what you call an intellectual approach. > > An example - the mold (mould, form). David makes a "skeletal" > mold from MDF - and provides full scale templates for it. Bob > builds up his form from layers of wood (almost as in the > transition from the ancient "masada" type Egyptian tomb to > the smoother pyramid) which he then shaves with a draw knife. > David's method is initially easier - but my next mold will be > done Bob's way. In part because I love using a draw knife, > and in part beca
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute - Baroque Guitar
Hi Troy, If you're actually wanting to build a lute, I would recommend getting David van Edwards' CD-ROM and plans (for either a renaissance or a baroque lute - see www.vanedwards.co.uk). I have just completed a renaissance lute from this, and am very pleased with the results (in spite of everything that could go wrong going wrong!) - it only took 4.5 years although most of the progress was in the last 6 months, when I began to believe that it could be completed! The instructions are very detailed, lots of colour photos, and there is a huge amount of knowledge and experience encapsulated in the CDROM - it's up to you to acquire the necessary skills, if you haven't already! Best wishes Din Ghani To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
