[LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins - single/double courses experiment
Dear Susanne, I play two original six course instruments made by Ambrogio Maraffi recently restored. Maraffi was active in middle and second half of the XVIII century and he never made the old XVIIth century's 4 course mandolini with single top string which were not anymore in use and completely out of fashion by that time. Unfortunatly the instrument in Nurnberg hasn't got an original arrangement. Best regards, Davide - Original Message - From: "Susanne Herre" To: "davide.rebuffa" ; "Lute List" Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 8:40 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins - single/double courses experiment Dear Davide, So, you don't know of any surviving instrument of 4 double courses? There is this instrument by Marafi (MIR 873) which has 8 pegs but seem to have arranged like this: 1x1 3x2 1x1 Whether this is the original arrangement or not...? Kind regards, Susanne - Original Message - From: "davide.rebuffa" To: "Lute List" ; "Stuart Walsh" Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins - single/double courses experiment Sauli wrote for a 4 course mandolino with scordatura ( fouth course tuned a semitone higher, just like the first four courses of a lute) Surviving original 4 course mandolini have a single top string and all the others double. Davide - Original Message - From: "Stuart Walsh" To: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 4:41 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins - single/double courses experiment I sent this a while ago Here's a little example of single-stringing. It's an Alemande and Corrente by Filippo Sauli. Of course, the Sauli pieces are definitely for mandolino and mandolinos have double courses http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oReJcAQIU04 And here is another little piece by Sauli on the same instrument, now with double courses (except for the top string). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxLtfVX5xY Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins - single/double courses experiment
Sauli wrote for a 4 course mandolino with scordatura ( fouth course tuned a semitone higher, just like the first four courses of a lute) Surviving original 4 course mandolini have a single top string and all the others double. Davide - Original Message - From: "Stuart Walsh" To: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 4:41 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins - single/double courses experiment I sent this a while ago Here's a little example of single-stringing. It's an Alemande and Corrente by Filippo Sauli. Of course, the Sauli pieces are definitely for mandolino and mandolinos have double courses http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oReJcAQIU04 And here is another little piece by Sauli on the same instrument, now with double courses (except for the top string). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxLtfVX5xY Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins etc--- tensions and kgs?
Dear Martyn
I agree with Eugene about string tension and right hand position. ("with my
pinky near to the bridge of a mandolino, my m, i, and p are much nearer to
the relative center of the vibrating string length than they would be on a
baroque lute")
I play with quite high tension and so do my students and does Mauro
Squillante who plays the same copy of a 6 ocurse mandolino made for us by an
italian maker.
I use 0.40 ( gut or nylgut) for the g top string at 415 hz on a short
string lenght mandolini , 31.8 cm (originals and copies from north Italy)
the same 0.40 or 0.38 on original mandolini with longer string lenght
made in central Italy where the standard corista was lower ( top string in f
, 390 hz ) - a 5 course mandolino by Smorsone (1721 ) diapason cm 33.8 cm
and 4 course by Franchi, diapason 34.9 cm (1727 which has single top
string).
Theese instruments with longer string lenght, narrow and long body project
wery well even with low tensions but I woudn't say the same about the
mandolini made in Milano at the end of the XVIIIth century with larger body
which need higher tension, I suspect this is because they were already
conceived to be played with the plectrum which gives a softer sound.
I might be wrong but my feelings and my experience are that I need higher
tension on small instruments an quite lowe on big instruments like calichon
or theorbo and baroque guitars, but not that low on the baroque lute.
regards,
Davide
- Original Message -
From: "EUGENE BRAIG IV"
To: "Lute List"
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 2:43 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins etc--- tensions and kgs?
Of course it is (common knowledge, that is, at least relatively so).
But with modern classical guitars sometimes strung to 9 kg or so, the
single string functions at as high or higher a tension than the paired
course. Also, fingerpicking steel-string guitars is not uncommon, and
even lightly strung, they tend to be even higher tension.
Regarding the act of plucking itself, the feeling of stiffness imparted
by short scale length doesn't hinder after a little practice. If
anything, it increases speed and accuracy because the strings are more
consistently close to where they started. It's a similar effect to
plucking very, very near the bridge, as is now common on baroque
instruments. Because of scale length alone, with my pinky near to the
bridge of a mandolino, my m, i, and p are much nearer to the relative
center of the vibrating string length than they would be on a baroque
lute. I don't play d-minor lute, but I don't mind noodling on other
folks' on occasion. Plucking near the bridge of a d-minor lute feels
only slightly different to me. I suppose that may be only because I'm
so accustomed to plucking mandolino now.
Plucking a mandolino using the finest functional strings that are
readily available isn't that much different with minimal practice. Not
many yet, but as mentioned earlier, there are a fair number of
recordings that demonstrate so nicely: Tyler, O'Dette, Wedemeier, etc.
I'm excited to hear another such recording is pending with the
scholarly Davide Rebuffa doing the plucking.
I think it's possible that the high tessitura of such things may in
part be why chamber music and concerti make up such a higher relative
proportion of extant baroque mandolino repertoire, where that for lute
favors solos. Not only does the expanded bass lend itself to a more
satisfying self accompaniment on lute, but all the previously discussed
factors trend to add up to better projection, a better ability to "cut"
above accompanying instruments. Also, I am aware of absolutely no
evidence one way or the other, but I suspect nail use may have been
more common to mandolino players than d-minor lute players.
...And by the early classical and the era of published mandolin
methods, the burgeoning popularity of the Neapolitan type, the music of
Hoffmann, etc. it DOES appear that plectrum play on 4th-tuned
mandolini was becoming common.
Really, before losing oneself in bewilderment, one should pick up a 5-
or 6-course mandolino and pluck a few notes with the fingers. It's not
so bad.
Best,
Eugene
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson
Date: Sunday, May 30, 2010 4:09 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolins etc--- tensions and kgs?
To: Lute List , EUGENE BRAIG IV
>
>Dear Eugene,
>
>There is really is no difficulty here. The heart of
> the matter is that
>tension needs to be related to string length, so
> that with similar
>instruments, bigger ones (and used eg Dowland as
> said)) higher tension
>than their smaller counterparts - see the earlier
> communication about
>this. So for a small string length, like on the
> mandolino which is
>around half the string length of a mean lute, a
> tension of as low as a
>half is sugge
[LUTE] lute music and playing technique in italy 18th century
rofessionel people who just played mandolin, or, or... And as there is no evidence we can't generally say that the playing technique will be thumb and index in fast scales. Could also have been middle plus index or a mixture... Don't you think? Best wishes, Susanne - Original Message - From: "davide.rebuffa" To: "Susanne Herre" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] lute music and playing technique in italy 18th century Dear Susanne the baroque mandolino ( 4, 5, 6 course) was played with finger tips at least untill the middle of the XVIII century: Afterwards, as the roman and neapolitan mandolines became popular, they started playing the six course tuned in fourths also with the plectrum, Always thumb out like the baroque lute because all the mandolino palyers were acyuaslly lute and theorbo players. Thum and index alternated for fast notes, arpeggios and 2 or 3 notes chords with thumb out. In case you are interested I have a class of baroque mandolino in Vicenza, Italy, which is the only one in Italy and one of the very few in Europe. I hope this may help, Best regards, Davide - Original Message - From: "Susanne Herre" To: "Lute List" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:45 PM Subject: [LUTE] lute music and playing technique in italy 18th century Dear Lute Wisdom, It would be great if you could help me. I'm doing some research on the baroque mandolin. I would like to know which italian baroque music for lute instruments do we have from the first half of the 18th century? Which composers are represented? Which kinds of instruments are preferred? What is known about playing technique? More "thumb-in" or "thumb-out"? "Two-voice-chords"- how will they be played? How high is the thumb going? Thanks in advance for any helpful comments! Susanne -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saltarello
it looks like a turkish lavta not a greek one. Davide - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" To: "Stuart Walsh" ; "David Tayler" ; "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saltarello I also have a couple of questions. David, is that a Cretan laouta you are using? And is that inauthentic stainless steel KleenKanteen flask under the chair just a prop, or it has a musical purpose? RT - Original Message - From: "Stuart Walsh" To: "David Tayler" ; "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saltarello David Tayler wrote: Fun with lute, harp, tambourine & recorder [1]http://tinyurl.com/Saltarello dt -- Very effectively and persuasively played. I would never have guessed that the percussion was just one person and a tambourine. I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind: there seems to be nothing happening on the medieval list. In some modern versions of this tune, the fifth 'bar' is repeated. This is how I first saw the tune and the way your group plays it. But McGee's version in 'Medieval Instrumental Dances' (1989) doesn't repeat it. I'm almost sure the repeat of bar 5 is editorial and McGee is giving the tune 'as is'. So I wonder if you think McGee's version is incorrect - or perhaps too literal and that it makes sense to double that bar. Actually I've got used to hearing it the McGee way. (In my opinion, it's one of the few medieval dance tunes that fits a G-tuned lute like a glove. Lamenta, Manfredina etc aren't that difficult - but not so (almost) effortless as this Saltarello.) The other thing is the drone. Assuming the final is C. Then the drone that you and the harp perform is presumably c-g. But the 'Aperto' (the first time close) ends in A and you have the drone temporarily move to a-e(?). So for the complete piece the drone is almost always C but four times it moves temporarily to A. Now the performance of your group sounds very effective and attractive but if you were being really, really picky, would a temporary drone - almost like a 'chord' change- like this have been performance practice of the time? Stuart References 1. http://tinyurl.com/Saltarello To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1973 - Release Date: 02/26/09 07:03:00
[LUTE] 6 course mandolino for sale
Dear all, a student of mine has 6 course baroque mandolino for sale. It was made by Sergio Verna (2004) Italy. It is a very simple instrument but the sound is good. He is asking 600 Euro without case. please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone 0039 3491842264 - Photos are available. Davide To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
