[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

[Leonard Williams]

   While string quaity has been an issue for me (using gut),  another
   factor to consider may be the location of the break:  my strings tend
   to wear and fray either at the point of plucking or somewhere near the
   most used frets (2nd and 3rd).  This has often enough been due to
   rough, calloused skin in cold weather; or inattention to nail care.

   Leonard Williams
   -Original Message-
   From: Dan Winheld <dwinh...@lmi.net>
   To: Wim Loos <wjglso...@gmail.com>; LuteNet list
   <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Mon, Feb 19, 2018 11:54 am
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string
   Wim-
   No clue as to cause of the breakage until you supply essential
   information:
   1. String length- nut to bridge?
   2. A= ? 440, 415, 465, 392 - other?
   While stronger than equivalent gut, nylgut (especially the 1st
   generation, dead white stuff) is much more delicate than equivalent
   tension nylon or KF. The later, more yellow New Nylgut is stronger but
   still nowhere near as tough as the other synthetics.
   First thing in any case, get a good magnifier and check the nut and
   bridge for any irregularities that could snag the string, any rough
   spots that could abrade the string, A sharp "V" shape groove, too
   deeply
   cut in the nut is a fine way to jam a string as you fruitlessly try to
   wind it up to pitch. Take care of that stuff first, then assess the
   other factors.
   Dan
   On 2/18/2018 11:27 PM, Wim Loos wrote:
   > Dear luteplayers,
   > Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on a
   > 7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What
   do
   > you suggest as an alternative.
   > Wim Loos
   >
   > --
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

[Matthew Daillie]

On 19/02/2018 17:53, Dan Winheld wrote:
While stronger than equivalent gut, nylgut (especially the 1st 
generation, dead white stuff) is much more delicate than equivalent 
tension nylon or KF. The later, more yellow New Nylgut is stronger but 
still nowhere near as tough as the other synthetics. 


Unfortunately one cannot classify nylgut simply as 'White' or 'yellow 
New' as there have been numerous incarnations of both (the later white 
stuff was actually pretty good, more satisfactory to my mind than some 
of the strings produced recently).


Best,

Matthew



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[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

[Dan Winheld]

Wim-

No clue as to cause of the breakage until you supply essential information:

1. String length- nut to bridge?
2. A= ? 440, 415, 465, 392 - other?

While stronger than equivalent gut, nylgut (especially the 1st 
generation, dead white stuff) is much more delicate than equivalent 
tension nylon or KF. The later, more yellow New Nylgut is stronger but 
still nowhere near as tough as the other synthetics.


First thing in any case, get a good magnifier and check the nut and 
bridge for any irregularities that could snag the string, any rough 
spots that could abrade the string, A sharp "V" shape groove, too deeply 
cut in the nut is a fine way to jam a string as you fruitlessly try to 
wind it up to pitch. Take care of that stuff first, then assess the 
other factors.


Dan

On 2/18/2018 11:27 PM, Wim Loos wrote:

Dear luteplayers,
Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on a
7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What do
you suggest as an alternative.
Wim Loos

--


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[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

[Mimmo - Aquila Corde Armoniche]

The problem of breackage of the thinner Nylgut strings was caused by some inner 
 extruder parameters. The extrusion thecnology  is very complex, so the 
problemi s not just related to the common knowledges in matter of breaking 
index etc . On this fyeld I am learning everyday something of new.
I would like to say that I have fixed this problem a few months ago, around the 
2017 summer.   Always I had breakages on my renaissance lute of 61 cms tuned in 
G. This intrumentis my tester because there is no rider on the 1st string than 
can give an help. They are 5 months that it it tuned in A without any problem. 
 After a couple of months I have asked to our  early music distribitors and,  
since now, the problem of breakages drastically dropped.
Just to inform you guys.
Mimmo

-Messaggio originale-
Da: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Per conto di 
Matthew Daillie
Inviato: lunedì 19 febbraio 2018 11:39
A: Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Wim Loos <wjglso...@gmail.com>; LuteNet list <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

I was presuming a pitch of 440 but Wim mentions neither pitch nor string length.



> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:22, Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> 
> wrote:
> 
> A nylgut string of 0.44 on a lute of 60cmm string length at A415



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[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

[Matthew Daillie]

I was presuming a pitch of 440 but Wim mentions neither pitch nor string length.



> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:22, Martyn Hodgson  
> wrote:
> 
> A nylgut string of 0.44 on a lute of 60cmm string length at A415



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[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Dear Wim,
   Since it is the stress (ie Tension p.u.cross sectional Area) on the
   string which causes it to break (at the 'Breaking Stress'), the
   critical factors for a particular string material are simply pitch and
   string length.  Despite continuing mythology, absolute thickness is not
   relevant (provided there are no significant irregularities in the
   string material) - a thicker string will simply need a greater force
   (ie Tension) to reach the breaking stress than a thinner. The stress
   will be the same on the thick string as on the thinner.
   A nylgut string of 0.44 on a lute of 60cmm string length at A415
   (giving a theoretical tension of around 3,9Kg) should below the
   breaking stress of nylgut - provided the formulation hasn't changed
   again (as Matthew points out) or there was a dud batch.
   I say 'theoretical' tension since slender strings thin significantly on
   stretching so the 'at pitch' diameter will be less than the unstressed
   diameter..
   Why don't you contact Mimmo for his view?
   regards,
   Martyn
 __

   From: Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr>
   To: Wim Loos <wjglso...@gmail.com>
   Cc: LuteNet list <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Monday, 19 February 2018, 9:37
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string
   You didn't mention the string length of your lute so we can't judge
   whether 0.44 is the right diameter or not (it would certainly be far
   too much for a 60 cm lute and would explain the snapping strings).
   Unfortunately breakage is a common problem with the current Nylgut top
   strings, particularly the 0.40 gauges. There best stuff was the shiny
   nylgut made in 2014 (apart from the first batch which was dodgy) but as
   apparently some players complained about the fact that it was smooth
   and didn't have any surface texture (??!!) they stopped producing it
   for lutes.
   You could try La Bella or Kürschner nylon. Some players also like
   carbon strings but I find them too thin for top courses.
   Good quality gut is obviously very satisfactory sonically but you would
   be extremely lucky to find any for a chanterelle that lasts more than a
   couple of days of intensive playing.
   There is at least one string maker using silk (an interesting, historic
   alternative) but I have no experience of that and I don't know whether
   he makes gauges suitable for chanterelles.
   Best,
   Matthew
   > On Feb 19, 2018, at 8:27, Wim Loos <[1]wjglso...@gmail.com> wrote:
   >
   >  Dear luteplayers,
   >  Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on
   a
   >  7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What
   do
   >  you suggest as an alternative.
   >  Wim Loos
   >
   >  --
   >
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:wjglso...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

[Matthew Daillie]

You didn't mention the string length of your lute so we can't judge whether 
0.44 is the right diameter or not (it would certainly be far too much for a 60 
cm lute and would explain the snapping strings).

Unfortunately breakage is a common problem with the current Nylgut top strings, 
particularly the 0.40 gauges. There best stuff was the shiny nylgut made in 
2014 (apart from the first batch which was dodgy) but as apparently some 
players complained about the fact that it was smooth and didn't have any 
surface texture (??!!) they stopped producing it for lutes.

You could try La Bella or Kürschner nylon. Some players also like carbon 
strings but I find them too thin for top courses.

Good quality gut is obviously very satisfactory sonically but you would be 
extremely lucky to find any for a chanterelle that lasts more than a couple of 
days of intensive playing.

There is at least one string maker using silk (an interesting, historic 
alternative) but I have no experience of that and I don't know whether he makes 
gauges suitable for chanterelles.

Best,

Matthew



> On Feb 19, 2018, at 8:27, Wim Loos  wrote:
> 
>   Dear luteplayers,
>   Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on a
>   7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What do
>   you suggest as an alternative.
>   Wim Loos
> 
>   --
> 



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