[LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests

2011-03-13 Thread A. J. Ness

For some reason I have never been able to remember English terminology for
musical notes. But that's my problem, not yours, Stewart.

You asked about an undated, anonymous Premier Divertissement--sic
(Divertissement is masculine,
but maybe the publisher misspelled it), most likely the work by Kummer***:


  In the 18th century a crotchet [quarter-note, hereafter Q] rest
  looked like a mirror image [hereafter mE=Q] of a
  quaver [eighth-note, hereafter E] rest. We don't write them
  like that way any more. When is it the
  modern crotchet rest replaced the old one?


I don't think the shape of  Q and E rests could be used as a reliable
indicator of the date of a given piece of music.   The mE=Q rest originates
in
the earliest mensural notation.  Yet, in the Clavier Übung
(1739) engraved by JSB
himself the modern Q rest is clearly used.  Also in the 18th (and earlier?)
century
the
Q rest was sometimes shaped like a lowercase Z. When I played
professionally, often from ancient orchestral parts at
outdoor ballet and opera concerts in San Francisco's Stern Grove, I
encountered printed parts, invariably from France as late as the
1940s which used the mE=Q rest (e.g., Les Sylphides [1940] and
Carmen) .  You would expect that while in such long use someone would have
taken a
pencil
and marked the mE=Q rests as Q rests.  But the parts I read from were
always clean.  It's
surprisingly very easy to sight read music that uses E and mE=Q rests.
Literally sight read.  Those afternoon concerts had 2 hours of music
prepared
in a single one-hour morning rehearsal.

***It's probably Kaspar Kummer, [Trois] Divertissement[s], Op. 92, first
publ. in
Offenbach aM, by André ca. 1872; plate no. 6268.  There's a copy in the
ISMLP.
The first divertissement is in C major, Allegretto scherzando.  But you
probably have another edition.

AJN
==


This is the message I received:

  Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick answer
  on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests. Someone
  here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere Divertissement
  pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no
  composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired GP
  who has had to give up his music because of failing mental capacity. He
  remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has no
  further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might be.
  The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to identify
  it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could look
  at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further
  suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The parts
  are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which is
  something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not been
  able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are like
  reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved lines one
  above the other).  How far would this be a clue to the date ?  When did
  the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ? Please
  don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the
  change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a quick
  answer.


  Can anyone offer any thoughts?


  Stewart McCoy.



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[LUTE] Re: Crotchet rests

2011-03-13 Thread Margaret Munck
   I don't think you will be able to pin down a very precise date, and it
   probably varied from country to country and publisher to publisher. I
   have some late 19thC editions of piano music with the modern crotchet
   rest and others from the same period with the old style.
   On my shelves I find The Revised Church Hymnary (OUP 1929) is still
   using the old style, but The Church Anthem Book (OUP 1933) uses new
   style.  Both of these are properly engraved, i.e. not movable type.
   FWIW, I still use a version of the old style when copying by hand - it
   is much quicker. The stroke goes down-up-right, and looks a bit like a
   letter "r". Some hire orchestral parts are reproductions of hand copied
   originals, and some of these, e.g. Malcolm Arnold, also use old style,
   no doubt for the same reason. Arnold's copyist's version looks similar
   a handwritten square root sign, with a curl at the bottom left rather
   than an acute angle.
   I don't thinks this helps you very much!
   regards
   Meg

   On 13 March 2011 13:15, Stewart McCoy <[1]lu...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

   Dear All,
   Not specifically about lutes, I'm afraid, but I thought maybe
 someone
   might be able to help with a query which was passed on to me this
   morning.
   In the 18^th century a crotchet rest looked like a mirror image of
 a
   quaver rest. We don't write them like that any more. When is it
 the
   modern crotchet rest replaced the old one? This is the message I
   received:
   Hope I'm not being a nuisance but thought you might have a quick
 answer
   on a rather abstruse point about the dating of crotchet rests.
 Someone
   here has just given me the printed parts for a 'Premiere
 Divertissement
   pour flute, violon et guitarre'. There's no title page and no
   composer's name. The donor is the wife of a flute playing retired
 GP
   who has had to give up his music because of failing mental
 capacity. He
   remembers the German colleague who gave him the music but he has
 no
   further recollection of the music or idea who its composer might
 be.
   The music is, I think, early 19th century but I have failed to
 identify
   it. (If I sent you a photocopy do you think you (or Philip) could
 look
   at it to see if you had any ideas ?). The music is not, I further
   suspect, of any great significance but it is pleasant enough. The
 parts
   are engraved and printed on laid (i.e.hand-made) rag paper - which
 is
   something of a pointer to an early(ish) date. I have, though, not
 been
   able to spot any identifying water marks. The crotchet rests are
 like
   reversed quaver rests (i.e. not the kind that have two curved
 lines one
   above the other).  How far would this be a clue to the date ?
 When did
   the more modern type of crotchet rest come into normal use ?
 Please
   don't waste time on this but I wondered whether you knew when the
   change in the normal form of the rest happened and could give a
 quick
   answer.
   Can anyone offer any thoughts?
   Stewart McCoy.
   --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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References

   1. mailto:lu...@tiscali.co.uk
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html