Thank you for the tip, Anthony. I am just as glad to know you are around !
So, Jaroslaw and all those interested, my music examples are here :
http://adueliuti.free.fr/examples.htm
Best,
Jean-Marie
=== 06-02-2008 13:43:17 ===
>Jean-Marie
> You have to attatch by links, to a photographic site for example.
>Nice to see you on this list.
>Regards
>Anthony
>
>Le 6 févr. 08 à 13:38, Jean-Marie Poirier a écrit :
>
>> Sorry, Jaroslaw, the list doesn't seem to take attachments... :-(
>> JM
>>
>> === 06-02-2008 13:33:01 ===
>>
>>> Jaroslaw,
>>>
>>> I think it's right ! I have attached two examples : the first
>>> strain of the Pavane La Bataille in Phalèse, Chorearum Molliorum,
>>> 1583, and the eqivalent first strain of the adjoining Gaillarde.
>>> What I tried to explain is apparent here and the "tactus
>>> inequalis" applies perfectly. I was probaly confused and confusing
>>> too in my attempt to explain.
>>>
>>> The Pavan has a regular tactus , one breve down, one breve up.
>>> The Gaillard keeps the same breve down,( i.e. 2 semibreves) and
>>> the up beat is "inequalis", that is unequal, so the hand goes up
>>> with one semibreve of the Gaillarde instead of one breve in the
>>> Pavan.
>>>
>>> The interesting point is you keep the same "tactus" for the down
>>> beat, and thus it is very easy to return to duple time and keep a
>>> proper equivalence.
>>>
>>> How this applies to the lute litterature is a quite different
>>> story altogether... Actually, the transcriptions from polyphonic
>>> music to tablature are not always consistent and you can observe
>>> variations in the equivalence adopted between "score" and
>>> tablature. Musical flair and good sense have to come to the rescue
>>> I'm afraid... Some will split the dance (Pavan) into half
>>> measures, which then become whole measures in the tab, some will
>>> stick to the original format...
>>> So where do we stand ? That's the critical moment when the
>>> structure of the piece has to be thoroughly dismantled and
>>> analysed to try and understand the better possible solution, in
>>> terms of rhythm, phrasing and, possibly, steps.
>>>
>>> As for Elizbethan dance movements such as Pavan etc., I think we
>>> have to be very careful before deciding if theyhave to be
>>> "danceable" or if they are stylised forms. Both cases coexist in
>>> the repertoire, and here again nothing is clearly indicated in the
>>> sources. Only a very close analysis and a good dose of musical
>>> sense will help you come to an acceptable solution.
>>>
>>> If you think of Chopin's Waltzes for the piano, you can hear very
>>> different versions of them, some more dance like than others. IMHO
>>> it may be the same with early baroque dance forms and I put a good
>>> deal of the Elizabethan lute music in that category.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Jean-Marie
>>> === 06-02-2008 12:29:10 ===
>>>
Peter,
I am afraid this is not correct. I've just took the first
manuscript from my
shelf with Italian renaissance music without any particular
digging for
something special and what I can see? This is a facsimile edition of
"Intabolatura de lauto" by Antonio Rotta edited in Venetia 1546.
If we turn
the title page we have the first piece which is Passamezzo with
two flags
(crotchets using contemporary system of notation) per bar. The
next piece is
Gagliarda with three flags per bar (of the same value). If we
play both
pieces it becomes quite clear that one bar from Passamezzo equals
one bar
from Gagliarda. So Donnington was right I am afraid ( the
citation was from
his 1990 edition) and most things we can find in his book are
still valid.
The whole mess with Pavan - Galliard proportions comes from our
modern
thinking in uni-proportional system. In multi-proportional system
which was
commonly used in renaissance this problem wouldn't exist because
proportion
for this set of dances was very clear and easy; modus imperfectus
equals
modus perfectus. This is why I said the pulse remains the same
only dancers
change their steps.
All the best
Jaroslaw
>>>
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> http://poirierjm.free.fr
>>> 06-02-2008
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://poirierjm.free.fr
>> 06-02-2008
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
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>
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