[LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA (+ New NG variants)?
as Mimmo's synthetic string experiments are based on his interpretation of historic gut theory, his future flexible Meanes, and loaded basses should open open up such a possibility: it would be possible to use stiff NG on Trebles (1,2,3) and the 6th octave, but flexible NG on Meanes (4,5) and possibly also the 6th of a six course lute, and on octaves from the 7th bass octave down, and then loaded NG on basses from 6c down. This should, as you say, should give smooth transitions between Meanes and Basses as the material is tonally the same (just differeing in flexibility), but also a superior cohesion beween Basses and Meanes, particularly if Flexible NG is used on the Bass octaves; but I don't want to raise hopes too much, as Mimmo can only carry out experiments in his spare time. I incline with you in hoping these synthetic strings will not become available "instead" of the similar gut strings, but alongside them, permitting greater flexibility; but I am also aware of the huge work programme all this implies for Mimmo. Best wishes Anthony PS Of course I have nothing against wirewounds per-se. A recent "comparative" concert of gut bass strung lute and baroque wooden flute, followed by wirewound strung guitar and modern metal flute, just showed how well both go with each other: the redder valve-like sounds of the gut basses with the wooden flute, and the silver-blue colder transistor-like sound of the guitar wirewounds with the metal lute. __ De : Daniel Winheld A : Anthony Hind Cc : "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" Envoye le : Vendredi 11 Novembre 2011 20h46 Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA? Anthony. That is good news, ameliorating the stiffness of the same material for a smooth transition to courses 5, 6, and maybe 7 as well? I eliminated wirewounds from my own lutes years ago; not for any purist/snob/HIP reasons but just because I could not abide them, although I would periodically try for convenience, economy, stability, etc. But they would always come off, sooner or later. At this time I do have one, single overspun on one of my instruments, a solid silver wound/gut core light tension 5th string G for bass viol that is doing duty as the 13 course fundamental AA on my Baroque lute. Transitions well to the 1st generation Peruffo loaded gut 12th fundamental. The latest generation of Mimmo's loaded gut basses (type C, I think) are unavailable. I really hope he can come up with loaded new nylgut and resume production of the loaded gut, because they really are the best in my opinion. I can only use the alternatives in very limited specific instances: KF(G) for mid bass range, and Dan Larson's Gimps and Pistoys (for lower than 6th course) seem to work best for me only on the Larson lute 8 course lute. Sort of cool- magical but logical, that his strings match his lutes for best response. For diapasons on archlutes, I really think the KFG is a sort of magic bullet. Very happy with them on my small archlute. Don't crave or need anything else at this time. Not one of my students has ever wanted to continue using wirewounds after hearing and trying my instruments, although sometimes they have to for the usual reasons. As for Benjamin's high tensions (would love to know the specifics) I have gone back to relatively higher tension on my Baroque lute after playing with Toyohiko Satoh's suggested ultra low tension. Different lutes, different standards of performance & response, different strokes, different folks. I imagine there was not much more uniformity in the old days as now. The higher tension basses (midrange & trebles at "Larson medium") stay in tune better, have more punch, less slap-happy, and the lute doesn't seem to mind. Regards, Dan On Nov 11, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Anthony Hind wrote: > Dear Daniel and Ernesto >As I told the list a while back, after making a stiffer new > Nylgut, Mimmo (in his rare spare time) is working on a more flexible > (slightly elastic) version for thicker strings. There is already > excellent feedback for some prototypes. These would be useable on 5 and > 6 course and possibly 4th (presumably having characteristics close to a > flexible Venice) but a slightly different variant would be good for > Theorbo. > Mimmo is still working on a loaded version of this elastic NG, which > could mean that we may, hopefully, hear less wirewounds on lutes in the > near future. > Unfortunately, meanwhile, I have the impression that loaded gut strings > have remained unavailable. > Benjamin Narvey's latest baroque lute concert he
[LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA?
Anthony. That is good news, ameliorating the stiffness of the same material for a smooth transition to courses 5, 6, and maybe 7 as well? I eliminated wirewounds from my own lutes years ago; not for any purist/snob/HIP reasons but just because I could not abide them, although I would periodically try for convenience, economy, stability, etc. But they would always come off, sooner or later. At this time I do have one, single overspun on one of my instruments, a solid silver wound/gut core light tension 5th string G for bass viol that is doing duty as the 13 course fundamental AA on my Baroque lute. Transitions well to the 1st generation Peruffo loaded gut 12th fundamental. The latest generation of Mimmo's loaded gut basses (type C, I think) are unavailable. I really hope he can come up with loaded new nylgut and resume production of the loaded gut, because they really are the best in my opinion. I can only use the alternatives in very limited specific instances: KF(G) for mid bass range, and Dan Larson's Gimps and Pistoys (for lower than 6th course) seem to work best for me only on the Larson lute 8 course lute. Sort of cool- magical but logical, that his strings match his lutes for best response. For diapasons on archlutes, I really think the KFG is a sort of magic bullet. Very happy with them on my small archlute. Don't crave or need anything else at this time. Not one of my students has ever wanted to continue using wirewounds after hearing and trying my instruments, although sometimes they have to for the usual reasons. As for Benjamin's high tensions (would love to know the specifics) I have gone back to relatively higher tension on my Baroque lute after playing with Toyohiko Satoh's suggested ultra low tension. Different lutes, different standards of performance & response, different strokes, different folks. I imagine there was not much more uniformity in the old days as now. The higher tension basses (midrange & trebles at "Larson medium") stay in tune better, have more punch, less slap-happy, and the lute doesn't seem to mind. Regards, Dan On Nov 11, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Anthony Hind wrote: > Dear Daniel and Ernesto > As I told the list a while back, after making a stiffer new > Nylgut, Mimmo (in his rare spare time) is working on a more flexible > (slightly elastic) version for thicker strings. There is already > excellent feedback for some prototypes. These would be useable on 5 and > 6 course and possibly 4th (presumably having characteristics close to a > flexible Venice) but a slightly different variant would be good for > Theorbo. > Mimmo is still working on a loaded version of this elastic NG, which > could mean that we may, hopefully, hear less wirewounds on lutes in the > near future. > Unfortunately, meanwhile, I have the impression that loaded gut strings > have remained unavailable. > Benjamin Narvey's latest baroque lute concert here in Paris testified > to the superb harmonicity of these loaded Venices which, through their > ultra low impedance, can allow a skillfull luthenist to achieve a rare > and wonderful singing cohesion between bass and mid lines (in spite of > Benjamin's fairly high bass string tension). > A truly superb sound quality and performance achieved again by > Benjamin! > Regards > Anthony > __ > > De : Daniel Winheld > A : "erne...@aquila.mus.br" > > Ernesto- > Good point- I have been wanting to get feedback on the New Nylgut; they > have been out for over a year now & I have had mostly good results with > them and would like other's opinions. On my tenor vihuela they have > really enhanced the overall sound, albeit not quite as purely beautiful > as gut. The New Nygut works best on this vihuela (Chambure copy by > Harris & Barber) down to the 4th course; but it is inferior to the .95 > KFG unison 5th course and out of the question for the 6th, where like > Martin Shepherd I also prefer the KFG. > On my Baroque lute (an old Robert Lundberg model, needs all the help it > can get) I am not completely sold yet, but I will be keeping them on > for a while. New Nylgut is fine right down to & including the 5th > course, then the KFG starting at the 6th. My 6 course & 8 course > completely gut except for the 1st on the 8 course, and it transitions > to the gut courses better than the other synthetics I have used in the > past. > Dan > On Nov 9, 2011, at 9:20 AM, [1]erne...@aquila.mus.br wrote: >> Have you tried the New Nylgut from Aquila? >> Lutenists here in Brazil love them! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA?
Dear Daniel and Ernesto As I told the list a while back, after making a stiffer new Nylgut, Mimmo (in his rare spare time) is working on a more flexible (slightly elastic) version for thicker strings. There is already excellent feedback for some prototypes. These would be useable on 5 and 6 course and possibly 4th (presumably having characteristics close to a flexible Venice) but a slightly different variant would be good for Theorbo. Mimmo is still working on a loaded version of this elastic NG, which could mean that we may, hopefully, hear less wirewounds on lutes in the near future. Unfortunately, meanwhile, I have the impression that loaded gut strings have remained unavailable. Benjamin Narvey's latest baroque lute concert here in Paris testified to the superb harmonicity of these loaded Venices which, through their ultra low impedance, can allow a skillfull luthenist to achieve a rare and wonderful singing cohesion between bass and mid lines (in spite of Benjamin's fairly high bass string tension). A truly superb sound quality and performance achieved again by Benjamin! Regards Anthony __ De : Daniel Winheld A : "erne...@aquila.mus.br" Cc : Bruno Fournier ; Martin Shepherd ; theoj89...@aol.com; Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Envoye le : Mercredi 9 Novembre 2011 18h57 Objet : [LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA? Ernesto- Good point- I have been wanting to get feedback on the New Nylgut; they have been out for over a year now & I have had mostly good results with them and would like other's opinions. On my tenor vihuela they have really enhanced the overall sound, albeit not quite as purely beautiful as gut. The New Nygut works best on this vihuela (Chambure copy by Harris & Barber) down to the 4th course; but it is inferior to the .95 KFG unison 5th course and out of the question for the 6th, where like Martin Shepherd I also prefer the KFG. On my Baroque lute (an old Robert Lundberg model, needs all the help it can get) I am not completely sold yet, but I will be keeping them on for a while. New Nylgut is fine right down to & including the 5th course, then the KFG starting at the 6th. My 6 course & 8 course completely gut except for the 1st on the 8 course, and it transitions to the gut courses better than the other synthetics I have used in the past. Dan On Nov 9, 2011, at 9:20 AM, [1]erne...@aquila.mus.br wrote: > Have you tried the New Nylgut from Aquila? > Lutenists here in Brazil love them! > > Em 09/11/2011, `as 15:09, Bruno Fournier escreveu: > > I've always managed to order directly from Savarez.A In Canada there > are no representatives for Savarez lute strings, just guitar, so > they've always accepted to sell directly to me. > > A > > A > > Bruno > > On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Martin Shepherd > <[1][2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: > >The Savarez web site is rather vague about the density of these >strings (the KF "multi-coated" strings from .95mm onwards) and even >implies that the density is about the same as gut. A But my >experience has been that they are more dense than gut, a good >approximation being to use a diameter about 10% less than you would >use with gut. A I have found they work quite well - on my 6c lute at >the moment I have a 5th course of .95mm and a 6th of 1.25mm (both >octaved). >Martin > > On 09/11/2011 15:30, [2][3]theoj89...@aol.com wrote: > >Is there a Savarez dealer in the USA? I am looking to try the >Alliance KF strings on a renaissance lute (unless members of this >newsgroup warn me not to..) And how do I calculate thicknesses to >order?Thanks, trj >-- >To get on or off this list see list information at >[3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > A > > Bruno Cognyl-Fournier > > A > > [4]www.estavel.org > > A > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:[5]mar...@luteshop.co.uk > 2. mailto:[6]theoj89...@aol.com > 3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 4. [8]http://www.estavel.org/ > > > [9]erne...@aquila.mus.br > [10]erne...@aquila.mus.br > > > > > -- References 1. mailto:erne...@aquila.mus.br 2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 3. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 6. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.estavel.org/ 9. mailto:erne...@aquila.mus.br 10. mailto:erne...@aquila.mus.br
[LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA?
Ernesto- Good point- I have been wanting to get feedback on the New Nylgut; they have been out for over a year now & I have had mostly good results with them and would like other's opinions. On my tenor vihuela they have really enhanced the overall sound, albeit not quite as purely beautiful as gut. The New Nygut works best on this vihuela (Chambure copy by Harris & Barber) down to the 4th course; but it is inferior to the .95 KFG unison 5th course and out of the question for the 6th, where like Martin Shepherd I also prefer the KFG. On my Baroque lute (an old Robert Lundberg model, needs all the help it can get) I am not completely sold yet, but I will be keeping them on for a while. New Nylgut is fine right down to & including the 5th course, then the KFG starting at the 6th. My 6 course & 8 course completely gut except for the 1st on the 8 course, and it transitions to the gut courses better than the other synthetics I have used in the past. Dan On Nov 9, 2011, at 9:20 AM, erne...@aquila.mus.br wrote: > Have you tried the New Nylgut from Aquila? > Lutenists here in Brazil love them! > > Em 09/11/2011, às 15:09, Bruno Fournier escreveu: > > I've always managed to order directly from Savarez.A In Canada there > are no representatives for Savarez lute strings, just guitar, so > they've always accepted to sell directly to me. > > A > > A > > Bruno > > On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Martin Shepherd > <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: > >The Savarez web site is rather vague about the density of these >strings (the KF "multi-coated" strings from .95mm onwards) and even >implies that the density is about the same as gut. A But my >experience has been that they are more dense than gut, a good >approximation being to use a diameter about 10% less than you would >use with gut. A I have found they work quite well - on my 6c lute at >the moment I have a 5th course of .95mm and a 6th of 1.25mm (both >octaved). >Martin > > On 09/11/2011 15:30, [2]theoj89...@aol.com wrote: > >Is there a Savarez dealer in the USA? I am looking to try the >Alliance KF strings on a renaissance lute (unless members of this >newsgroup warn me not to..) And how do I calculate thicknesses to >order?Thanks, trj >-- >To get on or off this list see list information at >[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > A > > Bruno Cognyl-Fournier > > A > > [4]www.estavel.org > > A > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk > 2. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com > 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 4. http://www.estavel.org/ > > > erne...@aquila.mus.br > erne...@aquila.mus.br > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA?
Have you tried the New Nylgut from Aquila? Lutenists here in Brazil love them! Em 09/11/2011, às 15:09, Bruno Fournier escreveu: I've always managed to order directly from Savarez.A In Canada there are no representatives for Savarez lute strings, just guitar, so they've always accepted to sell directly to me. A A Bruno On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Martin Shepherd <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: The Savarez web site is rather vague about the density of these strings (the KF "multi-coated" strings from .95mm onwards) and even implies that the density is about the same as gut. A But my experience has been that they are more dense than gut, a good approximation being to use a diameter about 10% less than you would use with gut. A I have found they work quite well - on my 6c lute at the moment I have a 5th course of .95mm and a 6th of 1.25mm (both octaved). Martin On 09/11/2011 15:30, [2]theoj89...@aol.com wrote: Is there a Savarez dealer in the USA? I am looking to try the Alliance KF strings on a renaissance lute (unless members of this newsgroup warn me not to..) And how do I calculate thicknesses to order?Thanks, trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A [4]www.estavel.org A -- References 1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 2. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.estavel.org/ erne...@aquila.mus.br erne...@aquila.mus.br
[LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA?
I've always managed to order directly from Savarez.A In Canada there are no representatives for Savarez lute strings, just guitar, so they've always accepted to sell directly to me. A A Bruno On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Martin Shepherd <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: The Savarez web site is rather vague about the density of these strings (the KF "multi-coated" strings from .95mm onwards) and even implies that the density is about the same as gut. A But my experience has been that they are more dense than gut, a good approximation being to use a diameter about 10% less than you would use with gut. A I have found they work quite well - on my 6c lute at the moment I have a 5th course of .95mm and a 6th of 1.25mm (both octaved). Martin On 09/11/2011 15:30, [2]theoj89...@aol.com wrote: Is there a Savarez dealer in the USA? I am looking to try the Alliance KF strings on a renaissance lute (unless members of this newsgroup warn me not to..) And how do I calculate thicknesses to order?Thanks, trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A [4]www.estavel.org A -- References 1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 2. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.estavel.org/
[LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA?
The Savarez web site is rather vague about the density of these strings (the KF "multi-coated" strings from .95mm onwards) and even implies that the density is about the same as gut. But my experience has been that they are more dense than gut, a good approximation being to use a diameter about 10% less than you would use with gut. I have found they work quite well - on my 6c lute at the moment I have a 5th course of .95mm and a 6th of 1.25mm (both octaved). Martin On 09/11/2011 15:30, theoj89...@aol.com wrote: Is there a Savarez dealer in the USA? I am looking to try the Alliance KF strings on a renaissance lute (unless members of this newsgroup warn me not to..) And how do I calculate thicknesses to order?Thanks, trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Savarez KF dealer in USA?
Olav Chris Henrikson Boston Catlines 34 Newbury Street Somerville, MA 02144. Tel/Fax: (617) 776-8688 catli...@aol.com Chris can get you almost anything, can help figuring out tensions/pitch/diameter conundrums as well. A fine professional musician as well, he plays and records on Lutes and Baroque Guitar. As far as KF on lutes, I have had my uses for it. Courses 2 - 4 & sometimes 5. Denser than gut, so comes out too thin per kg for my taste on courses 1 and 2. The old KFG (carbon fiber "gut", no longer designated with the letter "G") is also still available from Chris, picks up where ordinary KF leaves off, at .95 mm. I have used it starting at 5 or 6, and successfully on down to E/Eb 9th course on Baroque lute. After that it is too stiff & thick for my taste. The KF & KF(G) strings don't work on all lutes in all situations, nor are they to everyone's taste, but they can really help out in some situations, and are a lot cheaper than gut. Tell Chris what you need, and he will help you with thickness calculations. Dan On Nov 9, 2011, at 7:30 AM, theoj89...@aol.com wrote: > Is there a Savarez dealer in the USA? I am looking to try the Alliance KF > strings on a renaissance lute (unless members of this newsgroup warn me not > to..) And how do I calculate thicknesses to order?Thanks, trj > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
