[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
An alternative to super glue based fillers I would suggest is an epoxy I used for many years in electron microscopes called 'Torr Seal', which appears to be still available. It is a 2-part epoxy, so it must be mixed before application, but it is incredibly hard because the filler is finely powdered sapphire particles and the epoxy itself is much stronger than superglue. Downside is that it is expensive ($50), although one tube will probably repair hundreds of nuts and it has a long shelf life. [1]https://www.lesker.com/newweb/fluids/pdf/torrsealspecifications.pdf A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Nov 28, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Steve Ramey <[2]stevera...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Don't know about dentist's "dentine", but here's a trick that may help. [3]The baking soda and super glue trick [youtube.png] The baking soda and super glue trick "Can a broken nut can be fixed with baking soda and super glue?" Lou, a singer here in Athens, Ohio, brought thi... HTH, Steve On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 05:06:59 PM EST, John Mardinly <[4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote: I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter strings, especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a âv' shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of magic epoxy? A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind <[1][5]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: Could it perhaps be Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C was set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened to me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put the Venices back and the problem went away. However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a similar rattle appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could have changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said he could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's dentine. This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could possibly work for you. On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like yourself, I have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave, but I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set up for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will last a lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson. Am I wrong about that? Best wishes Anthony [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams <[2][6]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a écrit : I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8 course lute. I tried it several years ago, using an octave half the diameter of the bass (all in gut). But, whereas the octave g on 6th blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding jangly, almost as though I had a metal string on there. Perhaps it was poor (thumb-in in this case) technique? At any rate, I switched back to unison. I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same stringing. One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of the octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the bridge, but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with the octave ringing out quite plainly. I adjusted the bridge knot, what little I could, and the sound improved somewhat. Perhaps further work with RH technique will further improve the sound. Or--any other suggestions?? Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving! Leonard Williams On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz <[1][2][3][7]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Hello there, I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high frequencies
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
Would it adhere better to bone (or, shudder, ivory) than a hard plastic nut? Wood would be acceptable, too, I suppose. It might be that magic material to quickly build up a worn fret, too. Carefully done, of course. Sean On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 3:26 PM John Mardinly <[1]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote: Very cool. Dan Erlewine is just so full of cool tricks-he is amazing. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Nov 28, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Steve Ramey <[1][2]stevera...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Don't know about dentist's "dentine", but here's a trick that may help. [2]The baking soda and super glue trick [youtube.png] The baking soda and super glue trick "Can a broken nut can be fixed with baking soda and super glue?" Lou, a singer here in Athens, Ohio, brought thi... HTH, Steve On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 05:06:59 PM EST, John Mardinly <[3][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote: I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter strings, especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a âv' shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of magic epoxy? A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind <[1][4][4]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: Could it perhaps be Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C was set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened to me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put the Venices back and the problem went away. However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a similar rattle appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could have changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said he could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's dentine. This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could possibly work for you. On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like yourself, I have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave, but I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set up for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will last a lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson. Am I wrong about that? Best wishes Anthony [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams <[2][5][5]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a à ©crit : I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8 course lute. I tried it several years ago, using an octave half the diameter of the bass (all in gut). But, whereas the octave g on 6th blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding jangly, almost as though I had a metal string on there. Perhaps it was poor (thumb-in in this case) technique? At any rate, I switched back to unison. I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same stringing. One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of the octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the bridge, but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with the octave ringing out quite plainly. I adjusted the bridge knot, what little I could, and the sound improved somewhat. Perhaps further work with RH technique will further improve the sound. Or--any other suggestions?? Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving! Leonard Williams On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz <[1][2][3][6][6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Hello there, I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
Very cool. Dan Erlewine is just so full of cool tricks-he is amazing. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Nov 28, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Steve Ramey <[1]stevera...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Don't know about dentist's "dentine", but here's a trick that may help. [2]The baking soda and super glue trick [youtube.png] The baking soda and super glue trick "Can a broken nut can be fixed with baking soda and super glue?" Lou, a singer here in Athens, Ohio, brought thi... HTH, Steve On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 05:06:59 PM EST, John Mardinly <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote: I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter strings, especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a âv' shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of magic epoxy? A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind <[1][4]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: Could it perhaps be Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C was set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened to me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put the Venices back and the problem went away. However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a similar rattle appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could have changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said he could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's dentine. This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could possibly work for you. On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like yourself, I have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave, but I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set up for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will last a lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson. Am I wrong about that? Best wishes Anthony [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams <[2][5]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a écrit : I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8 course lute. I tried it several years ago, using an octave half the diameter of the bass (all in gut). But, whereas the octave g on 6th blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding jangly, almost as though I had a metal string on there. Perhaps it was poor (thumb-in in this case) technique? At any rate, I switched back to unison. I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same stringing. One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of the octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the bridge, but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with the octave ringing out quite plainly. I adjusted the bridge knot, what little I could, and the sound improved somewhat. Perhaps further work with RH technique will further improve the sound. Or--any other suggestions?? Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving! Leonard Williams On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz <[1][2][3][6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Hello there, I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high frequencies with them. Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would confuse voices. Hoping for some suggestions, Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-Dà «n Muhammad Rumi To get on or off this list see list information at [2][3][4][7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
Well, the non-silver composites used for fillings today do have phenomenal properties, but I thought they all needed a special light to cure them. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Nov 28, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Anthony Hind <[1]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: A lutemaker friend did the work and I can't distinguish it from the original bone on the nut. He called it dentine. It seemed to be liquid and in a small bottle. Perhaps it's a sort of ceramic used for filling front teeth, but I admit I'm not sure. Perhaps a lute maker on the list will know. Best Anthony [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone Le jeudi, novembre 28, 2019, 10:59 PM, John Mardinly <[2]john.mardi...@asu.edu> a écrit : I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter strings, especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a âv' shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of magic epoxy? A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind <[2][3]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: Could it perhaps be Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C was set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened to me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put the Venices back and the problem went away. However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a similar rattle appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could have changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said he could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's dentine. This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could possibly work for you. On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like yourself, I have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave, but I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set up for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will last a lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson. Am I wrong about that? Best wishes Anthony [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams <[3][4]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a à ©crit : I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8 course lute. I tried it several years ago, using an octave half the diameter of the bass (all in gut). But, whereas the octave g on 6th blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding jangly, almost as though I had a metal string on there. Perhaps it was poor (thumb-in in this case) technique? At any rate, I switched back to unison. I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same stringing. One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of the octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the bridge, but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with the octave ringing out quite plainly. I adjusted the bridge knot, what little I could, and the sound improved somewhat. Perhaps further work with RH technique will further improve the sound. Or--any other suggestions?? Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving! Leonard Williams On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz <[1][2][4][5]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Hello there, I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high frequencies with them. Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would confuse voices. Hoping for some suggestions, Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-Dà «n Muhammad Rumi To get on or off this
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter strings, especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a âv' shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of magic epoxy? A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind <[1]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: Could it perhaps be Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C was set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened to me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put the Venices back and the problem went away. However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a similar rattle appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could have changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said he could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's dentine. This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could possibly work for you. On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like yourself, I have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave, but I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set up for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will last a lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson. Am I wrong about that? Best wishes Anthony [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams <[2]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a écrit : I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8 course lute. I tried it several years ago, using an octave half the diameter of the bass (all in gut). But, whereas the octave g on 6th blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding jangly, almost as though I had a metal string on there. Perhaps it was poor (thumb-in in this case) technique? At any rate, I switched back to unison. I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same stringing. One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of the octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the bridge, but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with the octave ringing out quite plainly. I adjusted the bridge knot, what little I could, and the sound improved somewhat. Perhaps further work with RH technique will further improve the sound. Or--any other suggestions?? Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving! Leonard Williams On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz <[1][2][3]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Hello there, I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high frequencies with them. Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would confuse voices. Hoping for some suggestions, Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-Dà «n Muhammad Rumi To get on or off this list see list information at [2][3][4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs. dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29 SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpK ZONBRt90E=xnhCkwbBgHdYf33DpfBUO_UeqGbl6MqPg1_j4GX8JNE=PNYi6Z7KVm wcKsOx-7yeVZ5EXhB-nxAtO7JXhe0U8-Y= -- References 1. mailto:[4][5]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 2. [5][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY R0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E= xnhCkwbBgHdYf33DpfBUO_UeqGbl6MqPg1_j4GX8JNE=PNYi6Z7KVmwcKsOx-7yeVZ5EX hB-nxAtO7JXhe0U8-Y= -- References 1. [7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__yho.com_footer0 =DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6j
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
Love 5th and 6th in octaves...only play that way. Le sam. 23 nov. 2019 5 h 10 p.m., Edward Martin <[1]edvihuel...@gmail.com> a écrit : I think you will be surprised at how you will like the 5 th course in octaves. Good luck! Sent from my iPhone On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:34 PM, Jurgen Frenz <[2]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:  Hello Edward, thank you very much, I feel encouraged now to "go octaves" all the way down from 5th. course.I should consider myself stupid that I hesitated, because who is there to judge me apart from myself. I am not competing in any academic exercise :-) Thank you very much again, gut is cost-wise prohibitive to me. Best regards Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-Dën Muhammad Rumi âââââââ Original Message âââââââ On Saturday, November 23, 2019 9:16 PM, Edward Martin <[3]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote: Hello Jurgen, I agree that in with 8-course lutes, they do tend to not sound as brilliant as with octaves. Of course, it is a compromise, but on my 8-course lute, I have octaves on 5,6,7, & 8 and like it very much. Whatever brand of strings you try, I think you will like the 5th course in octaves, as it brightens up the sound. I do not see it as confusing the voices as you say, but adding to the richness and complexity of the sound. Another thing that could very much improve the sound is to use gut. If you do not want gut, at least consider using gut for octaves. On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 6:19 AM Jurgen Frenz <[1][4]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Hello there, I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high frequencies with them. Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would confuse voices. Hoping for some suggestions, Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-Dà �n Muhammad Rumi To get on or off this list see list information at [2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 2. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com 2. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 3. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com 4. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
Hello Leonard, I meticulously play every day as a warm up simple notes on all courses with the goal to create the "perfect" attack which is the fingers and thumb engage both strings at the same time. There is a video on YT that shows it quite well by David van Ooiyen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh0X4U6h7DM Of course doing so repeatedly with the hope that in time it becomes automatic. For the rest I have no complaints at all about an octave string on the 5th course, but it also depends on the music played. Good luck Jurgen -- “Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.” Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, November 28, 2019 2:33 AM, Leonard Williams wrote: > I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8 > course lute. I tried it several years ago, using an octave half the > diameter of the bass (all in gut). But, whereas the octave g on 6th > blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding jangly, > almost as though I had a metal string on there. Perhaps it was poor > (thumb-in in this case) technique? At any rate, I switched back to > unison. > I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same > stringing. One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of the > octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the bridge, > but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with the > octave ringing out quite plainly. I adjusted the bridge knot, what > little I could, and the sound improved somewhat. Perhaps further work > with RH technique will further improve the sound. Or--any other > suggestions?? > Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving! > Leonard Williams > On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz > <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: > > > Hello there, > > > > > > I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm > > > "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed > > the > > > plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds > > quite > > > the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on > > 6c > > > instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current > > sound > > > "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the > > > Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high > > > frequencies with them. > > > > > > Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just > > get > > > used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it > > would > > > confuse voices. > > > > > > Hoping for some suggestions, > > > Jurgen > > > > > > > > > "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." > > > > > > JalÃl ad-DÃ «n Muhammad Rumi > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com > 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8 course lute. I tried it several years ago, using an octave half the diameter of the bass (all in gut). But, whereas the octave g on 6th blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding jangly, almost as though I had a metal string on there. Perhaps it was poor (thumb-in in this case) technique? At any rate, I switched back to unison. I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same stringing. One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of the octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the bridge, but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with the octave ringing out quite plainly. I adjusted the bridge knot, what little I could, and the sound improved somewhat. Perhaps further work with RH technique will further improve the sound. Or--any other suggestions?? Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving! Leonard Williams On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: > Hello there, > > I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm > "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the > plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite > the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c > instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound > "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the > Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high > frequencies with them. > > Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get > used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would > confuse voices. > > Hoping for some suggestions, > Jurgen > > -- > "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." > > JalÃl ad-Dà «n Muhammad Rumi > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
I think you will be surprised at how you will like the 5 th course in octaves. Good luck! Sent from my iPhone On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:34 PM, Jurgen Frenz wrote:  Hello Edward, thank you very much, I feel encouraged now to "go octaves" all the way down from 5th. course.I should consider myself stupid that I hesitated, because who is there to judge me apart from myself. I am not competing in any academic exercise :-) Thank you very much again, gut is cost-wise prohibitive to me. Best regards Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi âââââââ Original Message âââââââ On Saturday, November 23, 2019 9:16 PM, Edward Martin wrote: Hello Jurgen, I agree that in with 8-course lutes, they do tend to not sound as brilliant as with octaves. Of course, it is a compromise, but on my 8-course lute, I have octaves on 5,6,7, & 8 and like it very much. Whatever brand of strings you try, I think you will like the 5th course in octaves, as it brightens up the sound. I do not see it as confusing the voices as you say, but adding to the richness and complexity of the sound. Another thing that could very much improve the sound is to use gut. If you do not want gut, at least consider using gut for octaves. On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 6:19 AM Jurgen Frenz <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Hello there, I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high frequencies with them. Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would confuse voices. Hoping for some suggestions, Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-Dà �n Muhammad Rumi To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
You could try Aquila CD strings or (as you were considering) Savarez PVF. Best, Matthew On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz wrote: > Hello there, > > I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm > "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the > plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite > the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c > instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound > "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the > Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high > frequencies with them. > > Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get > used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would > confuse voices. > > Hoping for some suggestions, > Jurgen > > -- > "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." > > JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
Hello Edward, thank you very much, I feel encouraged now to "go octaves" all the way down from 5th. course.I should consider myself stupid that I hesitated, because who is there to judge me apart from myself. I am not competing in any academic exercise :-) Thank you very much again, gut is cost-wise prohibitive to me. Best regards Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-Dën Muhammad Rumi âââââââ Original Message âââââââ On Saturday, November 23, 2019 9:16 PM, Edward Martin wrote: Hello Jurgen, I agree that in with 8-course lutes, they do tend to not sound as brilliant as with octaves. Of course, it is a compromise, but on my 8-course lute, I have octaves on 5,6,7, & 8 and like it very much. Whatever brand of strings you try, I think you will like the 5th course in octaves, as it brightens up the sound. I do not see it as confusing the voices as you say, but adding to the richness and complexity of the sound. Another thing that could very much improve the sound is to use gut. If you do not want gut, at least consider using gut for octaves. On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 6:19 AM Jurgen Frenz <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Hello there, I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high frequencies with them. Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would confuse voices. Hoping for some suggestions, Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-DÃën Muhammad Rumi To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html References 1. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
Hello Jurgen, I agree that in with 8-course lutes, they do tend to not sound as brilliant as with octaves. Of course, it is a compromise, but on my 8-course lute, I have octaves on 5,6,7, & 8 and like it very much. Whatever brand of strings you try, I think you will like the 5th course in octaves, as it brightens up the sound. I do not see it as confusing the voices as you say, but adding to the richness and complexity of the sound. Another thing that could very much improve the sound is to use gut. If you do not want gut, at least consider using gut for octaves. On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 6:19 AM Jurgen Frenz <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: Hello there, I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high frequencies with them. Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would confuse voices. Hoping for some suggestions, Jurgen -- "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." JalÃl ad-Dà «n Muhammad Rumi To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
