[LUTE] Re: lyrics for right-left writing systems such as hebrew or arabic
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Christopher Stetson cstet...@smith.edu wrote: Ah, but some Japanese (and Chinese) notations now follow the European model, with the voice in staff, the shamisen in 3-line .. When among ourselves, though, at least us shakuhachi players revert to the old (about 1700) ways of notating. For people who have no idea what we are talking about, here's an example of traditional Japanese notation for koto, with a bit of explanation and transcription into staff notation: http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/sashimisen/things_japanese/fuki_f.html David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: lyrics for right-left writing systems such as hebrew or arabic
Why not compromise and go up and down like some Japanese notations? On Apr 18, 2009, at 2:35 AM, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: Dumb question, some (perverse?) writing systems are contrary to western music notation, how does one set hebrew or arabic lyrics to western music? Only way I can think of is to transliterate phonetically into the roman alphabet, as in - hava nagila, hava nagila... I realize this presents certain cultural issues, but what is a music typesetting program to do? I suppose it could be written to set the music right-eft, but that could be a bit challenging to the members of the band... -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ --
[LUTE] Re: lyrics for right-left writing systems such as hebrew or arabic
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009, Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp said: Why not compromise and go up and down like some Japanese notations? puts a crick in my neck, reading the music. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: lyrics for right-left writing systems such as hebrew or arabic
Ah, but some Japanese (and Chinese) notations now follow the European model, with the voice in staff, the shamisen in 3-line tab, and the shakuhachi characters, normally written top to bottom, right to left, printed under the staves, left to right . I can tell you, very disorienting for the shakuhachi player. I've seen this for folk songs, which probably wouldn't have been written down at all until 50 or so years ago. It appears to me, though, that it's part of a world-wide movement toward notating music, at least ensemble music, following European staff notation norms. I think in part this is because an increasing number of musicians want to be able to read music for any instrument in one notational form, and staff is the fallback. When among ourselves, though, at least us shakuhachi players revert to the old (about 1700) ways of notating. In short, they're all conventions. People like conventions, and dislike having the ones they're comfortable with changed to accommodate the ones someone else is comfortable with. Most, however, get used to it, and are willing to do so to be able to play with others. Best to all, and keep playing from the notation(s) of your choice, Chris. Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 4/18/2009 7:38 AM Why not compromise and go up and down like some Japanese notations? On Apr 18, 2009, at 2:35 AM, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: Dumb question, some (perverse?) writing systems are contrary to western music notation, how does one set hebrew or arabic lyrics to western music? Only way I can think of is to transliterate phonetically into the roman alphabet, as in - hava nagila, hava nagila... I realize this presents certain cultural issues, but what is a music typesetting program to do? I suppose it could be written to set the music right-eft, but that could be a bit challenging to the members of the band... -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ --
[LUTE] Re: lyrics for right-left writing systems such as hebrew or arabic
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com said: The usual way is to set each syllable over its corresponding note, so that the words are diced, ple am ex for this, Like , did you mean this al-lig-an _av-ah is set under music like this? ah-av_ an-ig-al an unnatural reordering of each syllable. Also, is the european conventional usage of hyphen employed in arabic and hebrew typesetting? -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: lyrics for right-left writing systems such as hebrew or arabic
yep. that's it. On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:00 PM, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: On Fri, Apr 17, 2009, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com said: The usual way is to set each syllable over its corresponding note, so that the words are diced, ple am ex for this, Like , did you mean this al-lig-an _av-ah is set under music like this? ah-av_ an-ig-al an unnatural reordering of each syllable. Also, is the european conventional usage of hyphen employed in arabic and hebrew typesetting? -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
