[LUTE] Re: recommended lute pitch
I have a 63cm VL lute, it is over length for a G chanterelle. (The kit maker has shrunk his lute by a bit since I communicated with him). Look at Andrea Damiani's book, as translated from the Italian by our list member Doc Rossi. Without going into details of string characteristics Damiani lists the maximum pitch for the chanterelle, given VL, as A for 56-58 cm, G for 60-62 cm, and F# for 62-64 cm. - F for 65-66, and E for 67-68. I'm sure this is empirical, and he is referring to gut at A=440. It is an anomaly of strings that there is a breaking pitch no matter the guage, given the material. For the last two years my 63cm lute has been tuned to G at the chanterelle, but that string is nylon fishing line. Musical nylon strings wouldn't hold better than F#, an nylgut about the same (I tried them). I didn't try gut, but it would probably have snapped at about E or F. The old canard that luthiers chose the pitch, given the VL, by tuning just under the breaking point is valid, if not true. Each material has a density that is a part of its nature, and it also has a tensile strength that is inate. If one neglects the possible destruction of the instrument by the total tension of the strings (a real factor in harp design, as the strings pull directly on the soundboard instead of across a bridge) then one can look at the strings in isolation. Any string, no matter the guage (given the material) will break at the same pitch (given the VL). I said it was an anomaly, but it isn't. The resistance to breaking increases with the cross section, as does the effective density (weight per unit length). So if you put on a thinner guage to increase the pitch you will also have less resistance to breaking under tension. The upshot is that the VL defines the maximum pitch. Empirically the gut will be about 1 to 1 1/2 tones below nylon at the max, with nylgut about 1/2 tone below nylon. That depends, of course, on the particular gut used. There is an anomaly in the commonly used strings for the various stringed instruments. The balance of characteristics between steel and gut and nylon and nylgut makes them all about the same in breaking pitch. The only string used today with totally different characteristics is bronze or brass. I've done some work with this and can provide figures for any who are interested, but write me at my direct address as I don't look at the Lute list often (no predjudice, just rather busy). Best, Jon BTW, pitch don't matter unless you are playing with others. I'm in the process of transcribing medieval plainsong and counterpoint chants for the harp ensemble, there is no pitch involved except the general pitch of the voices of the monks who sang them. One guesses from the nature of the Latin words and the sense of the music whether it should be brighter and in higher registers or more melancholy and in the bass. jwm. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: recommended lute pitch
I think you could tune it at 440, being careful about the tension. SO you should use a string calculator (have you ever used Arto Wikla's?) and select the diameters that allow you to get the desired pitch with may be lower tension. regards, Laura - Mensaje original - De: Steve Bryson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fecha: Domingo, Julio 9, 2006 0:55 am Asunto: [LUTE] recommended lute pitch Hi everyone - I'm a long-time on-again-off-again amateur lute player, but I have something of a newbie question: I have an old Aria 63 cm lute that I used to play at a'=440. Over the years the pegs have shrunk and the pegboard has developed cracks so it will no longer hold a'=440. I now use LaBella copper/nylon strings, which are the lowest tension strings I could find (I've tried gut but I don't play often enough to justify it). It barely holds tune at a'=435. Recently poking around for a new lute, I see 64 cm lutes with advertised pitch of a'=415. I've always been aware that I could drop pitch but preferred the bright sound of a'=440. But was I making trouble for myself by over-tightening a 63 cm lute? So my question: what is the recommended pitch for a 63 cm lute? I imagine with good woods and construction I _could_ do a'=440, but is that recommended? Thanks Steve --- http://homepage.mac.com/stevepur -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: recommended lute pitch
Steve, You should be able to tease a G (A/440) w/ a nylon top string (mine always did tho I forget the gauge) or a .40mm nylgut. If you manage a gut that makes it it won't last long. W/ any of these the chanterelle will be generally a high squeaky tone than a lower tessura. So, yes, you can make it work; no, it's not optimal. I have a friend w/ a 63cm (DLarson) who keeps his at this pitch. Honestly, it's not about who makes the lute. It's simple fizics. That said, you do need to keep your nut channel free and smooth (no pinching. Switching to a larger diameter after a nylgut can potentially pinch since the relatively hard nylon will have carved out its diameter in the groove; nylgut too) and that the string doesn't catch on anything between the groove and the peg, eg, a sharp ledge on the back of the nut. Chanterelle choices start to open up if you tune to F# or F. E is, of course, fine and would hold gut very well. I use beeswax to lubricate the channel, too, rubbing a small bit under the string before it passes into the nut. A little lube keeps the string from jumping or hanging back when tuning. I don't know how this works w/ the wound bass strings however. Perhaps apropos, last week at Cleveland, Toyohiko Satoh pointed out that his top string was cow. The rest, sheep. Good luck, Sean Smith On Jul 9, 2006, at 11:45 AM, Mathias Rösel wrote: Steve Bryson [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hi everyone - I'm a long-time on-again-off-again amateur lute player, but I have something of a newbie question: I have an old Aria 63 cm lute that I used to play at a'=440. that's the referential pitch, I suppose? Or did you mean to say you have tuned the 1st course to a' = 440 Hz? I should say 63 cm vibrating string length is good for a tenor lute in E. Whether that is according to a' = 440 Hz, or a' = 415 Hz, doesn't matter as long as the tension of the strings is appropiate. I do not know Aria lutes. On common lutes, the average string tension is around 3 Newton (1st and 2nd courses a little more, the rest a little less). You can find string calculators in the internet (a good one is Arto Wikla's - hi Arto! - and another good one is Paul Beier's). Some string companies offer their calculators (Pyramid / Germany; d'Aquila / Italy). Over the years the pegs have shrunk and the pegboard has developed cracks so it will no longer hold a'=440. I should say your lute need mending ASAP. I now use LaBella copper/nylon strings, which are the lowest tension strings I could find (I've tried gut but I don't play often enough to justify it). It barely holds tune at a'=435. So, tension is too high, obviously. Recently poking around for a new lute, I see 64 cm lutes with advertised pitch of a'=415. that was in order to catch the eyes of old-fashioned Early Music fanatics ;) For quite a long time a' = 415 Hz was said to be the referential pitch of choice for Early Music. But later, it was discovered that in different areas of Europe they had different pitches during the old days. In Venice, it was something around a' = 465 Hz or higher, whereas in France it was rather a' = 392 Hz. And I hasten to add that things change if organs are involved. I for one prefer a deeper pitch for playing solo music. But when playing together with instruments like harpsicords or recorders, I have the lute in a' = 440, of course, because I want to read, and play from, the same score as they do. I've always been aware that I could drop pitch but preferred the bright sound of a'=440. But was I making trouble for myself by over-tightening a 63 cm lute? yes, that may be so (see above). So my question: what is the recommended pitch for a 63 cm lute? I imagine with good woods and construction I _could_ do a'=440, but is that recommended? again, see above. -- All the best, Mathias http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
