Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Douglas Adams had a rather fine sense of the ridiculous, and there are many quotations one could use for examples. Tasting not entirely unlike tea. But my favorite, in a early book, is the description of whats-her-name's bathroom. It was large enough to swing a cat, provided it was a very tolerant cat that didn't mind the occasional nasty bump on the head. Best, Jon
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
The BBC is far to linguistically correct to accept a four book trilogy. And in honor of the Dolphins I had a sardine sandwich for lunch today. Best, Jon
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Which is worse Alain, volume or Vogon poetry? I would hate to have to learn the answer g. Best, Jon
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Bill, Not contentious at all, but perhaps inaccurate. You use the phrase the hoi polloi, which has an internal redundancy (I used to live in Greenwich Village - which translates as green village village). Hoi is the article the (although it is only the letters oi with the accent that puts the h sound on the omicron - polloi is many. (For purists, I don't have my computer font set up for Greek). But you make a point that could be assumed from some of the conversations on this list. I think you are wrong, however. I'll stick my neck out (as usual) and make the statement that the list members would be quite happy if lute music became popular with the polloi, as long as they listened to it. The problem with popular music is that the musical values disappear when the music becomes merely background, or something to shout to. Convince the populace to listen to Vivaldi, or to really hear a Gregorian chant (they became popular briefly a few years ago, but not for long as they weren't heard), then they might listen to the lute music. I think the great majority of the list members would love to have lute music appreciated by a wider public, but only if properly appreciated. It is a fond hope, but unlikely. It would be difficult to play the lute while bumping and grinding like Britney Spears (and it would cover her navel, ruining her entire appeal). Best, Jon
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Jon, Some of the music my daughters listens to sounds much like electrified Vogon poetry ... But they also enjoy the Baltimore consort and the Beatles. So that makes the balance, I guess Alain At 11:10 PM 5/17/2004, Jon Murphy wrote: Which is worse Alain, volume or Vogon poetry? I would hate to have to learn the answer g. Best, Jon
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
How was the band's name whose music one can only bear to listen when being on a different planet? Thomas Am Die, 2004-05-18 um 17.07 schrieb Alain Veylit: Jon, Some of the music my daughters listens to sounds much like electrified Vogon poetry ... But they also enjoy the Baltimore consort and the Beatles. So that makes the balance, I guess Alain At 11:10 PM 5/17/2004, Jon Murphy wrote: Which is worse Alain, volume or Vogon poetry? I would hate to have to learn the answer g. Best, Jon -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
How was the band's name whose music one can only bear to listen when being on a different planet? Not quite that. In the interests of accuracy, from Douglas Adams' The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, chapter 17: Disaster Area, a plutonium rock band from the Gagracka Mind Zones, are generally held to be not only the loudest rock band in the Galaxy, but in fact the loudest noise of any kind at all. Regular concert goers judge that the best sound balance is usually to be heard from within large concrete bunkers some 37 miles from the stage, whilst the musicians themselves play their instruments by remote control from within a heavily insulated spaceship which stays in orbit around the planet -- or more frequently around a completely different planet. * * * Many worlds have now banned their act altogether, sometimes for artistic reasons, but most commonly because the band's public address system contravenes local strategic arms limitations treaties. Disaster Area was not in the original BBC radio Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I suppose it was substituted for the super-evolutionary Hagunenons, which would have been too difficult to do on television.
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
I got the information about the band from the book. Thanks for the correction! Thomas Am Die, 2004-05-18 um 18.38 schrieb Howard Posner: How was the band's name whose music one can only bear to listen when being on a different planet? Not quite that. In the interests of accuracy, from Douglas Adams' The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, chapter 17: Disaster Area, a plutonium rock band from the Gagracka Mind Zones, are generally held to be not only the loudest rock band in the Galaxy, but in fact the loudest noise of any kind at all. Regular concert goers judge that the best sound balance is usually to be heard from within large concrete bunkers some 37 miles from the stage, whilst the musicians themselves play their instruments by remote control from within a heavily insulated spaceship which stays in orbit around the planet -- or more frequently around a completely different planet. * * * Many worlds have now banned their act altogether, sometimes for artistic reasons, but most commonly because the band's public address system contravenes local strategic arms limitations treaties. Disaster Area was not in the original BBC radio Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I suppose it was substituted for the super-evolutionary Hagunenons, which would have been too difficult to do on television. -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Am Fre, 2004-05-14 um 12.41 schrieb bill: Hi Bill, I don't think it's the rareness which attracts us. I think the lute has a very special sound and a fantastic repertoire which raises interest. Most of us may have come into contact with that repertoire over the guitar. Others may have listend to recordings by Julian Bream. Others again could have been simply curious. But actually I don't believe a majority would be willing to spent much money just because it's a rare instrument (although I know of such people - and why not!? Many of our instruments are beauties). Best wishes Thomas i hope you all won't view this as too contentious but if i've taken your collective measure - as it were - correctly i would say that a popularization of the lute repertoire would probably cause most of you to drop it immediately and go off in search of something even more esoteric and above concern of the hoi palloi. the impression i've gathered over many happy months of bright and breezy discourse is that for the most of you the music's main appeal lies in its remoteness and inaccessibility. pray do correct me if i'm wrong. - bill -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Bill, You are talking to someone who has made extensive efforts to make lute music more accessible to more people. As long as popularize means spreading the word and sharing the goodies with a larger number of fellow primates, it's all for the better. If popularize means debase for the sake of helping some high level executives save a few bucks on the back of hard-working recording artists, then I am not so sure. Obviously, there must be a zone somewhere where music and commerce meet, because we do want to have a few professional lutenists who can actually scrape a living from their art, but I am not sure that zone should be the aisles of a supermarket, particularly if that were to represent people's main exposure to that music. We are elitists no doubt, but not more so than other people on other discussion groups, some of whom know a whole lot about programming LINUX or Britney Spears than you or I, and talk about those topics at length. Thirty years ago, that was a different question: lutes and lute music were truly rare. But now, a lot of work has been spent on making those more accessible, and the results are now sinking into collective consciousness. I just hope that sinking does not mean anything like drowning in the fruit juice department ... Alain At 03:41 AM 5/14/2004, bill wrote: On Venerdì, mag 14, 2004, at 04:30 Europe/Rome, Alain Veylit wrote: There is a potential annoyance if lute music were to be tagged or associated with supermarket or elevator music for base commercial reasons. I have mixed feelings when I hear Cutting while picking my yoghurt and broken consort music when I get the steak du jour... Maybe it's silly, but I like to keep my culture separate from my confiture. i hope you all won't view this as too contentious but if i've taken your collective measure - as it were - correctly i would say that a popularization of the lute repertoire would probably cause most of you to drop it immediately and go off in search of something even more esoteric and above concern of the hoi palloi. the impression i've gathered over many happy months of bright and breezy discourse is that for the most of you the music's main appeal lies in its remoteness and inaccessibility. pray do correct me if i'm wrong. - bill
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
You wrote: if i've taken your collective measure - as it were - correctly i would say that a popularization of the lute repertoire would probably cause most of you to drop it immediately and go off in search of something even more esoteric * * * for the most of you the music's main appeal lies in its remoteness and inaccessibility. pray do correct me if i'm wrong. Well, perhaps silly might be better word. If you were inclined to take this group's collective measure (and Lord knows why you would be so inclined), you might start by noticing that broad questions of esthetics like this are precisely the ones on which there tends to be great disagreement.
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Frankly, I determine the degree of my emotional response to all artistic endeavors based upon an inverse log scale to the degree of popularity of said art. Eugene i hope you all won't view this as too contentious but if i've taken your collective measure - as it were - correctly i would say that a popularization of the lute repertoire would probably cause most of you to drop it immediately and go off in search of something even more esoteric and above concern of the hoi palloi. the impression i've gathered over many happy months of bright and breezy discourse is that for the most of you the music's main appeal lies in its remoteness and inaccessibility. pray do correct me if i'm wrong. - bill
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Eugene Braig wrote: I determine the degree of my emotional response to all artistic endeavors based upon an inverse log scale to the degree of popularity of said art. A laudable goal, but your market research expenses must be astronomical.
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
At 10:15 AM 05/14/2004 -0700, Howard Posner wrote: Eugene Braig wrote: I determine the degree of my emotional response to all artistic endeavors based upon an inverse log scale to the degree of popularity of said art. A laudable goal, but your market research expenses must be astronomical. Naw. A touch of statistical software (provided by the university), a little of my time committed to internet research, and, voila, I can quantitatively define what's good and what's over-popular, garish tripe. Eugene
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
i've devised a little test to gauge one's tolerance of popular culture and snob rating: have a good friend of long standing point to your lute and say awesome lute, dude! and see if you can maintain equanimity. pip-pip On Venerdì, mag 14, 2004, at 18:55 Europe/Rome, Howard Posner wrote: You wrote: if i've taken your collective measure - as it were - correctly i would say that a popularization of the lute repertoire would probably cause most of you to drop it immediately and go off in search of something even more esoteric * * * for the most of you the music's main appeal lies in its remoteness and inaccessibility. pray do correct me if i'm wrong. Well, perhaps silly might be better word. If you were inclined to take this group's collective measure (and Lord knows why you would be so inclined), you might start by noticing that broad questions of esthetics like this are precisely the ones on which there tends to be great disagreement.
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Although this is not totally lute-related (how many decibels can a lute generate?) I find it amusing/ironic: Paul McCartney, a known animal-rights advocate, is in trouble with Greenwich people: even though he rehearses across the river, complaints from residents were issued, most notably one person complaining that the noise upset their cat... Consequently, McCartney was ordered to hold the noise to a maximum level of 92 decibels... (why 92?) For more details see http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Music/05/13/britain.mccartney.ap/index.html Paul's efforts against KFC's cruel treatment of chicken is detailed under the http://www20.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=02u3hs9yoaUFVvTTCD%2FQy9K0c0xJSEJTRD0fG9SLD1ojuVJkKqIWDHaR%2B%2F1Qv6pvtk2z0vzy%2B8X7tdEb0wIl%2Bcb42MD7R7ZFeoz3Q8xYcGLWaHxz5xszju9rXP2p7%2F0NGrF0xXmislIUUUsshebeeKMNDGpJXUvKilv0mkDjJQVpnNxHIKS5FP4qgT2MsELTtbL9ogNc62s1u27KdTYrPJNCYSlhLyM8BQ5%2BO4EpLkpQIc5JwHa0IhmzfM1jTdNxti3%2FR6PhUFOdPZZC6hpkDDxxtmZo9OMsXJRiumMCnY%2Bbp7%2Bfd%2FhyfTzOFL%2F3tsB2%2BMgw%3D%3Dyargs=www.kfccruelty.comPaul Mccartney Sticks up for Chickens link on that page. Some higher-end supermarkets use a lot of early-music music background: more lute music is to be heard at Ralph's than anywhere else in Southern California... Probably some studies showed that (low decibel level) early music can put people in the comfortable (zombie) state conducive to the happy consomption of supposedly happy (yet now dead) chicken. Or perhaps copyrights laws have something to do with it. Should McCartney pick up the lute out of respect for animals? Physiologically speaking, how decibels can human beings withstand before turning into dead chicken? Has the history of music reached a ceiling where music can no longer be heard through the noise or are we getting more and more tolerant of high decibel levels? And finally, did anyone ever bother to post a chart of decibel levels for Western music: say viol consort, Corelli violin concerto, Mozart symphony, Brahms, Stravinski, big band jazz, the Beatles (with the teenagers screaming), and today's pop stuff. I'd be curious to know if the progression is simply geometric or exponential. Alain
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
You wrote: more lute music is to be heard at Ralph's than anywhere else in Southern California... Probably some studies showed that (low decibel level) early music can put people in the comfortable (zombie) state conducive to the happy consomption of supposedly happy (yet now dead) chicken. Or perhaps copyrights laws have something to do with it. I'm rarely in Ralphs (and haven't been in Riverside in a decade), so I haven't noticed. But lutes and guitars have always fared well in radio because of studies that show people like plucked string sound. And how many times have you been told that the lute is relaxing? A relaxed buyer is less likely to have apoplexy upon noticing raised prices. Copyright has nothing to do with it, since the recordings themselves are protected by copyright. H
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Howard, You are most probably right on the copyrights, but it seems to me that those big chain supermarket music compilations must represent big bucks for someone (not necessarily the recording artists). There is a potential annoyance if lute music were to be tagged or associated with supermarket or elevator music for base commercial reasons. I have mixed feelings when I hear Cutting while picking my yoghurt and broken consort music when I get the steak du jour... Maybe it's silly, but I like to keep my culture separate from my confiture. About not going to Riverside in a long time, that is a shame: most places won't let you see the air you breathe. Not so in Riverside (in good part thanks to our L.A. friends and neighbors). To my surprise it was listed as one of the 30 most livable places in the country this year. (Or did they mean leavable???) Anyway, ten years in Riverside is not that much water under the Santa Ana bridge - so we Riversiders have a chance to stay young at heart, if not at lungs. Besides, did not Arnold promise us oxygen stations every 20 miles? (or was it hydrogen stations for some not yet invented vehicle? but that would not make any sense...). What's with this (newish?) Southern California early music society: any good? Alain At 04:58 PM 5/13/04, Howard Posner wrote: You wrote: more lute music is to be heard at Ralph's than anywhere else in Southern California... Probably some studies showed that (low decibel level) early music can put people in the comfortable (zombie) state conducive to the happy consomption of supposedly happy (yet now dead) chicken. Or perhaps copyrights laws have something to do with it. I'm rarely in Ralphs (and haven't been in Riverside in a decade), so I haven't noticed. But lutes and guitars have always fared well in radio because of studies that show people like plucked string sound. And how many times have you been told that the lute is relaxing? A relaxed buyer is less likely to have apoplexy upon noticing raised prices. Copyright has nothing to do with it, since the recordings themselves are protected by copyright. H
Re: Friendly fire, music and cruelty to animals
Howard Alain, I thought muzak - background the businesses that play music to the public in the US do need to report to the performing rights organizations (BMI ASCAP). Bars, dentist's offices ect. often subscribe to get music of a particular type and there are companies that put these together. They are the same companies that repackage the music for the airline channels and that make the CD compilations you see in stores like Starbucks. Nancy Carlin Howard, You are most probably right on the copyrights, but it seems to me that those big chain supermarket music compilations must represent big bucks for someone (not necessarily the recording artists). There is a potential annoyance if lute music were to be tagged or associated with supermarket or elevator music for base commercial reasons. I have mixed feelings when I hear Cutting while picking my yoghurt and broken consort music when I get the steak du jour... Maybe it's silly, but I like to keep my culture separate from my confiture. About not going to Riverside in a long time, that is a shame: most places won't let you see the air you breathe. Not so in Riverside (in good part thanks to our L.A. friends and neighbors). To my surprise it was listed as one of the 30 most livable places in the country this year. (Or did they mean leavable???) Anyway, ten years in Riverside is not that much water under the Santa Ana bridge - so we Riversiders have a chance to stay young at heart, if not at lungs. Besides, did not Arnold promise us oxygen stations every 20 miles? (or was it hydrogen stations for some not yet invented vehicle? but that would not make any sense...). What's with this (newish?) Southern California early music society: any good? Alain At 04:58 PM 5/13/04, Howard Posner wrote: You wrote: more lute music is to be heard at Ralph's than anywhere else in Southern California... Probably some studies showed that (low decibel level) early music can put people in the comfortable (zombie) state conducive to the happy consomption of supposedly happy (yet now dead) chicken. Or perhaps copyrights laws have something to do with it. I'm rarely in Ralphs (and haven't been in Riverside in a decade), so I haven't noticed. But lutes and guitars have always fared well in radio because of studies that show people like plucked string sound. And how many times have you been told that the lute is relaxing? A relaxed buyer is less likely to have apoplexy upon noticing raised prices. Copyright has nothing to do with it, since the recordings themselves are protected by copyright. H Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web site - www.nancycarlinassociates.com Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org --
