[LUTE] Lady Gaga on Lute and Viol
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Lute and viol
PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: Lute and viol > Dear Ariel, > b) John Maynard's _Twelve Wonders of the World_ contains several > lute solos, again with an added part for the bass viol which doubles > the bass of the lute. This book was published in facsimile by Scolar > Press. I don't know if it is still in print. Brian Jordan (Cambridge > bookseller and re-publisher of Scolar lute-song editions) would be > able to tell you. > Stewart McCoy. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Ariel Abramovich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:00 PM > Subject: Lute and viol > > > > Dear all, > > I wonder if any of you could provide some info about > = > > English pieces for lute and viola da gamba of late XVIth century > and = > > early XVIIth. > > Thanks very much. > > Saludos from Sevilla, > > Ariel.
Lute and viol
Dear David and Rainer, It is possible that you (David) had a piece by Cutting in mind, which, although not for lute and bass viol, is pretty close to being so. The last piece in Francis Cutting, _Collected Lute Music_, transcribed and edited by Jan W. J. Burgers (Lübeck: Tree Edition, 2002) survives as a duet for tenor viol (tuned like a renaissance 6-course lute) and bass viol. The tenor part is in tablature, and Jan Burgers argues convincingly that this is an intabulation of the top part (with occasional notes from a lower voice) taken from a pre-existent lute solo by Cutting which is now lost. He compares it to a similar piece by Robert Johnson, again for tenor viol in tablature and bass viol in staff notation. Johnson's piece survives as a lute solo, and one may deduce from it how the Cutting piece would have been arranged for two viols. We may, of course, have overlooked some other pieces for lute accompanied by a bass viol, but somehow I doubt whether it was a common line-up. The lute is perfectly capable of producing a well-balanced piece of music on its own. Adding a bass viol gives extra prominence to the bass line. This is a good thing in a lute ayre, where the singer takes the cantus, and the inner parts on the lute are for the most part mere chord-fillers. However, it is not so desirable if there is no singer, because the lute then has to work extra hard to bring out the all-important top line. Best wishes, Stewart. - Original Message - From: "LGS-Europe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Rainer aus dem Spring" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:56 AM Subject: Re: Lute and viol > Oeps, sorry, it was by Pilkington. > > David > > > > There's a nice piece by Cutting for one lute and one viol. > > > > Which one? > > > > Rainer adS
Re: Lute and viol
Oeps, sorry, it was by Pilkington. David > > There's a nice piece by Cutting for one lute and one viol. > > Which one? > > Rainer adS
Re: Lute and viol
LGS-Europe wrote: > Simpson, from 'simple' variations on a ground to very complicated ensemble > pieces. > There's a nice piece by Cutting for one lute and one viol. Which one? Rainer adS
Re: Lute and viol
Simpson, from 'simple' variations on a ground to very complicated ensemble pieces. There's a nice piece by Cutting for one lute and one viol. David - Original Message - From: "Ariel Abramovich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:00 PM Subject: Lute and viol > Dear all, > I wonder if any of you could provide some info about = > English pieces for lute and viola da gamba of late XVIth century and = > early XVIIth. > Thanks very much. > Saludos from Sevilla, > Ariel. > > > > > -- > > > Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. > Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd.
RE: Lute and viol
Dear Rainer, > Isn't there a pavan for lute and viol by Pilkington? Yes, there is! At the end of "The First Booke of Songs or Ayres...", London 1605. Arto
RE: Lute and viol
Isn't there a pavan for lute and viol by Pilkington? Rainer adS > -Original Message- > From: Stewart McCoy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:53 PM > To: Lute Net > Subject: Lute and viol > > Dear Ariel, > > I can think of two sorts: > > 1) the viol accompanies the lute > > a) Dowland's "adew for Master Oliver Cromwell" in the _Second > Booke of Songs_ (London, 1600) is the same as his Resolution > (Pavan), and has a part for the bass viol which doubles the lute. > > b) John Maynard's _Twelve Wonders of the World_ contains > several lute solos, again with an added part for the bass > viol which doubles the bass of the lute. This book was > published in facsimile by Scolar Press. I don't know if it is > still in print. Brian Jordan (Cambridge bookseller and > re-publisher of Scolar lute-song editions) would be able to tell you. > > c) Make your arrangements by taking a suitable piece - one > which has a distinct bass line - and give the bass to the > bass viol. Dance pieces would probably be more suitable than > fantasies and other forms of fancy polyphony. > > In many ways it doesn't make a lot of musical sense having > the bass viol, because the bass notes of the harmony are > played by the lute anyway. There is a danger with a viol that > the lutenist loses the freedom of expression that he would > have if he were playing alone. > > It makes more sense for the bass viol to accompany the > cittern, as it does (bass viol implied, and specified years > later by Peter > Leycester) for some of the pieces in Antony Holborne's _The > Cittharn Schoole_ (London, 1597), because the cittern cannot > supply all the bass notes of the harmony. > > The bass viol is used in a similarly supportive role in > _Parthenia In-Violata_ (London, n.d.), where it merely > supports the virginalls. > (By the way, there are lots of puns here - Parthenia means > virgin, and _Parthenia_ was the first book of music for the > virginals printed in England. Violata means violated, i.e. it > is not the first time round for the virginals - no longer a > virgin - and is violated in the sense that a viol has been > added to the music.) > > The bass viol adds support to the lute doubling the bass line > for numerous English lute songs. Although the bass viol adds > nothing from the point of view of the notes and the harmony, > having a viol makes practical sense, because the lute does > not offer a great deal of support to a singer. Having a bass > viol reinforcing the bass line is particularly useful when > the song is sung down an octave by a man (tenor), rather than > at pitch by a woman or boy treble. > > 2) the lute accompanies the viol > > a) Here there are many possibilities. One could include > virtually any piece for the viol which has an accompaniment > consisting of a bass line, with or without figures. There are > some very nice sets of divisions, such as those by Diego > Ortiz (is 1553 too early?), or those in Cambridge, University > Library, Dd. 5.21. The Viola da Gamba Society has published > an index of all extant viol sources, including not only sets > of divisions, but also pieces in two parts where the viol > would need accompanying by another instrument. I think that > some of the sort of music I have in mind is published by Ian > Gammie of Corda Music, St Albans. He might well be able to > suggest a few things from his catalogue, if you ask him, and > his editions are not expensive. > > b) Make your own arrangements, where the viol plays a melody > (if need be an octave lower than written) and the lute > provides a suitable accompaniment. The Fitzwilliam Virginal > Book might be a good place to start. > > c) Use songs with ready-made lute accompaniments. Songs which > rely on meaningful words would not be so suitable, but > dance-songs like those in Dowland's _First Booke_ (London, > 1597) might do the trick. > Again, the bass viol would play the melody sounding an octave > lower than written, and the lute would accompany using the > tablature part. > If at any stage the octave-down melody were to sound below > the bass, the lute could usefully drop the odd note down an > octave too - not too much, or the whole thing ends up in your boots. > > The only thing I would say about the bass viol being > accompanied by the lute is that the lute doesn't provide a > strong bass. To that extent it is a good idea to choose > pieces where there is a simple ground or chord sequence - > like the Quadro Pavan - where the harmony is so obvious from > the notes of the bass viol, that it doesn
Lute and viol
Dear Ariel, I can think of two sorts: 1) the viol accompanies the lute a) Dowland's "adew for Master Oliver Cromwell" in the _Second Booke of Songs_ (London, 1600) is the same as his Resolution (Pavan), and has a part for the bass viol which doubles the lute. b) John Maynard's _Twelve Wonders of the World_ contains several lute solos, again with an added part for the bass viol which doubles the bass of the lute. This book was published in facsimile by Scolar Press. I don't know if it is still in print. Brian Jordan (Cambridge bookseller and re-publisher of Scolar lute-song editions) would be able to tell you. c) Make your arrangements by taking a suitable piece - one which has a distinct bass line - and give the bass to the bass viol. Dance pieces would probably be more suitable than fantasies and other forms of fancy polyphony. In many ways it doesn't make a lot of musical sense having the bass viol, because the bass notes of the harmony are played by the lute anyway. There is a danger with a viol that the lutenist loses the freedom of expression that he would have if he were playing alone. It makes more sense for the bass viol to accompany the cittern, as it does (bass viol implied, and specified years later by Peter Leycester) for some of the pieces in Antony Holborne's _The Cittharn Schoole_ (London, 1597), because the cittern cannot supply all the bass notes of the harmony. The bass viol is used in a similarly supportive role in _Parthenia In-Violata_ (London, n.d.), where it merely supports the virginalls. (By the way, there are lots of puns here - Parthenia means virgin, and _Parthenia_ was the first book of music for the virginals printed in England. Violata means violated, i.e. it is not the first time round for the virginals - no longer a virgin - and is violated in the sense that a viol has been added to the music.) The bass viol adds support to the lute doubling the bass line for numerous English lute songs. Although the bass viol adds nothing from the point of view of the notes and the harmony, having a viol makes practical sense, because the lute does not offer a great deal of support to a singer. Having a bass viol reinforcing the bass line is particularly useful when the song is sung down an octave by a man (tenor), rather than at pitch by a woman or boy treble. 2) the lute accompanies the viol a) Here there are many possibilities. One could include virtually any piece for the viol which has an accompaniment consisting of a bass line, with or without figures. There are some very nice sets of divisions, such as those by Diego Ortiz (is 1553 too early?), or those in Cambridge, University Library, Dd. 5.21. The Viola da Gamba Society has published an index of all extant viol sources, including not only sets of divisions, but also pieces in two parts where the viol would need accompanying by another instrument. I think that some of the sort of music I have in mind is published by Ian Gammie of Corda Music, St Albans. He might well be able to suggest a few things from his catalogue, if you ask him, and his editions are not expensive. b) Make your own arrangements, where the viol plays a melody (if need be an octave lower than written) and the lute provides a suitable accompaniment. The Fitzwilliam Virginal Book might be a good place to start. c) Use songs with ready-made lute accompaniments. Songs which rely on meaningful words would not be so suitable, but dance-songs like those in Dowland's _First Booke_ (London, 1597) might do the trick. Again, the bass viol would play the melody sounding an octave lower than written, and the lute would accompany using the tablature part. If at any stage the octave-down melody were to sound below the bass, the lute could usefully drop the odd note down an octave too - not too much, or the whole thing ends up in your boots. The only thing I would say about the bass viol being accompanied by the lute is that the lute doesn't provide a strong bass. To that extent it is a good idea to choose pieces where there is a simple ground or chord sequence - like the Quadro Pavan - where the harmony is so obvious from the notes of the bass viol, that it doesn't need hammering out on the lute. Ortiz's pieces would come into that category. If you have tried accompanying a bass viol with just a lute, you will appreciate why a theorbo is so much better for the job. The theorbo may not always be brilliant at realising complex harmonic progressions, but it is very strong in the bass, which is what you need when accompanying a low-sounding instrument like the bass viol. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: "Ariel Abramovich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:00 PM Subject: Lute and viol > Dear all, > I wonder if any of you could provide some info about = > English pieces for lute and viola d
Re: Lute and viol
There is marvelous music by Jenkins for viol(s) and continuo. I just could provide one or two piece(s) for two viols and continuo which I have played somewhen years ago. Best wishes Thomas Am Mit, 2004-05-19 um 02.37 schrieb Ed Durbrow: > Tobias Hume would be a point to start. He says his music (in > Poeticall Musicke 1605) can be played in 8 different combinations, > including 2 lutes and basse viole. > > >Dear all, > > I wonder if any of you could provide some info about = > >English pieces for lute and viola da gamba of late XVIth century and = > >early XVIIth. > >Thanks very much. > >Saludos from Sevilla, > >Ariel. > > > > > > > > > >-- -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Lute and viol
Tobias Hume would be a point to start. He says his music (in Poeticall Musicke 1605) can be played in 8 different combinations, including 2 lutes and basse viole. >Dear all, > I wonder if any of you could provide some info about = >English pieces for lute and viola da gamba of late XVIth century and = >early XVIIth. >Thanks very much. >Saludos from Sevilla, >Ariel. > > > > >-- -- Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
Lute and viol
Dear all, I wonder if any of you could provide some info about = English pieces for lute and viola da gamba of late XVIth century and = early XVIIth. Thanks very much. Saludos from Sevilla, Ariel. --
Re: lute and viol
nigelsolomon wrote: > Does anybody have the gamba part for the pavan for lute and viol by > Francis Pilkington (1st book of Ayres)? > > Thanks > > Nigel > > > Yes, I have it. I can send a pdf file. Rainer adS
lute and viol
Does anybody have the gamba part for the pavan for lute and viol by Francis Pilkington (1st book of Ayres)? Thanks Nigel
