Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws (fwd)
Karen Lewellen wrote: Sharing this, in case it misses the list. I wrote: There is this Chrome extension that I've not tried: https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome "A web browser extension to help bypass paywalls for selected sites." It mentions "New York Times" so it could be working. It works fine! -- --gv
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws (fwd)
Sharing this, in case it misses the list. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 21:26:57 +0200 From: Gisle Vanem To: Karen Lewellen Subject: Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws Really? When I followed the link in Lynx, I went right to the article, no issues. I do not use Lynx regularly. Very few people really do. I'm a little nearsighted, but not blind :-) I was just "helping" people not using Lynx (w/o JavaScript) that they could download my scraped-off NYT article that I saved as a PDF on my home-page. These are the options to deal with such issues AFAICS: 1) Add a rule in Chrome etc. to block the use of JavaScript for https://www.nytimes.com only. 2.1) Go to a NYT link, right-click and Save as "only HTML". This gives a local .html file with no JavaScript blocking the content. 2.2) Optionally print the above local HTML-file as PDF-file using the Windows "Print to PDF-file" option which I used. But this does not include any pictures in an article. Do you see other simple options to bypass a "pay-wall" like this? There is this Chrome extension that I've not tried: https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome "A web browser extension to help bypass paywalls for selected sites." It mentions "New York Times" so it could be working.
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
Travis, Are you documenting those t-mobile accessibility issues directly with their team? accessibil...@t-mobile.com I am asking because..someone should. I am a prepaid customer, but am not entitled to accessibility for this reason...even if paying every single month. And of course, the New York times has a comments section, I believe? so fire away. this article is not going to raise your issues, regarding how simple is not only best, but more inclusive..but the next one can. Kare On Sun, 17 Jul 2022, Travis Siegel wrote: Thanks for that. I couldn't read this article the first time it came up on a mailing list I was on because of the nytimes login requirement. The thing that this article does not point out is that in general, making a site accessible is relatively easy, and largely consists of not doing fancy useless things with their html code. Javascript probably makes more sites inaccessible than any other technology I can think of. Especially when javascript is used to handle things that html already does. A properly designed web site will be perfectly accessible, and there's no need to resort to AI or any other kind of tools to get the job done. The problem is that webmasters (or more often than not) page generators haven't a clue about accessibility, and don't know that simple things like image descriptions, button labels and real html code (instead of javascript) do way more to make a site accessible than some automated generator that has templates that are loaded with garbage just to fill out the page size, so folks don't feel cheated, or so that the company generating the generator can claim the most capabilities over all other generators. It's rather silly to be honest. t-mobile is one of the sites that uses one of these site generator things to make the site accessible. It (mostly) works, but there's one major issue, and that's that a screen reader user can't actually order anything on their site, because the button to confirm your selections after all is said and done isn't viewable by the screen reader. Kind of defeats the purpose of having that accessibility mode, but I've complained about that many times, and nothing has been done, yet, and I expect nothing will be done anytime soon. I bug the hell out of them by calling them on the phone, and making them do the order that way. They keep complaining I don't use the site, and I keep complaining it doesn't work, so calls can get quite entertaining. On 7/17/2022 1:39 PM, Gisle Vanem wrote: Karen Lewellen wrote: > > sharing this article, not only because it is terrific, but it fortifies > ways continuing to keep Lynx at the table creates solutions. > Few tools manage basic code better speaking personally. > Kare > > -- Forwarded message -- > Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:45:43 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/technology/ai-web-accessibility.html For those w/o a New York Times subscription, I've scraped it and saved it as a PDF here: https://www.watt-32.net/misc/For-Blind-Internet-Users-NYT.pdf (or use Lynx or turn off JavaScript in Chrome etc.)
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
Travis Siegel dixit: > On 7/17/2022 2:47 PM, Chime Hart wrote: >> Well, Travis, don't you love it when even when you view a news-letter >> as html, they still write-and-say "you haven't opened an e-mail in a >> long time"? Like, who are they kidding? Chime >> > Yeah, honestly, I get that a lot.. > > Makes me wonder. Tracking pixels. Which lynx doesn’t load. bye, //mirabilos -- 22:59⎜ glaub ich termkit is kompliziert | glabe nicht das man damit schneller arbeitet | reizüberflutung │ wie windows │ alles evil zuviel bilder │ wie ein spiel | 23:00⎜ die meisten raffen auch nicht mehr von windows | 23:01⎜ bilderbücher sind ja auch nich wirklich verbreitet als erwachsenen literatur ‣ who needs GUIs thus?
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
On 7/17/2022 2:47 PM, Chime Hart wrote: Well, Travis, don't you love it when even when you view a news-letter as html, they still write-and-say "you haven't opened an e-mail in a long time"? Like, who are they kidding? Chime Yeah, honestly, I get that a lot.. Makes me wonder.
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
Well, Travis, don't you love it when even when you view a news-letter as html, they still write-and-say "you haven't opened an e-mail in a long time"? Like, who are they kidding? Chime
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
Thanks for that. I couldn't read this article the first time it came up on a mailing list I was on because of the nytimes login requirement. The thing that this article does not point out is that in general, making a site accessible is relatively easy, and largely consists of not doing fancy useless things with their html code. Javascript probably makes more sites inaccessible than any other technology I can think of. Especially when javascript is used to handle things that html already does. A properly designed web site will be perfectly accessible, and there's no need to resort to AI or any other kind of tools to get the job done. The problem is that webmasters (or more often than not) page generators haven't a clue about accessibility, and don't know that simple things like image descriptions, button labels and real html code (instead of javascript) do way more to make a site accessible than some automated generator that has templates that are loaded with garbage just to fill out the page size, so folks don't feel cheated, or so that the company generating the generator can claim the most capabilities over all other generators. It's rather silly to be honest. t-mobile is one of the sites that uses one of these site generator things to make the site accessible. It (mostly) works, but there's one major issue, and that's that a screen reader user can't actually order anything on their site, because the button to confirm your selections after all is said and done isn't viewable by the screen reader. Kind of defeats the purpose of having that accessibility mode, but I've complained about that many times, and nothing has been done, yet, and I expect nothing will be done anytime soon. I bug the hell out of them by calling them on the phone, and making them do the order that way. They keep complaining I don't use the site, and I keep complaining it doesn't work, so calls can get quite entertaining. On 7/17/2022 1:39 PM, Gisle Vanem wrote: Karen Lewellen wrote: sharing this article, not only because it is terrific, but it fortifies ways continuing to keep Lynx at the table creates solutions. Few tools manage basic code better speaking personally. Kare -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/technology/ai-web-accessibility.html For those w/o a New York Times subscription, I've scraped it and saved it as a PDF here: https://www.watt-32.net/misc/For-Blind-Internet-Users-NYT.pdf (or use Lynx or turn off JavaScript in Chrome etc.)
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
Really? When I followed the link in Lynx, I went right to the article, no issues. On Sun, 17 Jul 2022, Gisle Vanem wrote: Karen Lewellen wrote: sharing this article, not only because it is terrific, but it fortifies ways continuing to keep Lynx at the table creates solutions. Few tools manage basic code better speaking personally. Kare -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/technology/ai-web-accessibility.html For those w/o a New York Times subscription, I've scraped it and saved it as a PDF here: https://www.watt-32.net/misc/For-Blind-Internet-Users-NYT.pdf (or use Lynx or turn off JavaScript in Chrome etc.) -- --gv
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
I know personally that Brian Moore, uses command line Linux, as he is an acquaintance. second, the reference to code, speaks more to html than JavaScript's. Progressive enhancement web design practices chime actually work from the html door as a floor, keeping Lynx as an option, while adding elements on top for browsers that require different tings. I am personally Stunned that I can use elinks to order on the amazon site again, no reason why, save the belief that it cannot be done, for other inclusion not to return. Kare On Sun, 17 Jul 2022, Chime Hart wrote: Thank you Karen for a tarific article. 2 things jump out at me. First, in none of those interviews do they mention which browsers are being used, but I imagine they would be all graphical or in windows? 2nd, the requirement to include javascript. Obviously we know, for us, who enjoy L Y N X, this is a problem with no solution, other than for lynx to eventually have some way of dealing with it. Otherwise, for those of us who enjoy text browser, an Internet experience will just be either a fond memory of the 1990s or a continuing frustration. Chime
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
Thank you Karen for a tarific article. 2 things jump out at me. First, in none of those interviews do they mention which browsers are being used, but I imagine they would be all graphical or in windows? 2nd, the requirement to include javascript. Obviously we know, for us, who enjoy L Y N X, this is a problem with no solution, other than for lynx to eventually have some way of dealing with it. Otherwise, for those of us who enjoy text browser, an Internet experience will just be either a fond memory of the 1990s or a continuing frustration. Chime
Re: [Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
Karen Lewellen wrote: sharing this article, not only because it is terrific, but it fortifies ways continuing to keep Lynx at the table creates solutions. Few tools manage basic code better speaking personally. Kare -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/technology/ai-web-accessibility.html For those w/o a New York Times subscription, I've scraped it and saved it as a PDF here: https://www.watt-32.net/misc/For-Blind-Internet-Users-NYT.pdf (or use Lynx or turn off JavaScript in Chrome etc.) -- --gv
[Lynx-dev] For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws
sharing this article, not only because it is terrific, but it fortifies ways continuing to keep Lynx at the table creates solutions. Few tools manage basic code better speaking personally. Kare -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: For Blind Internet Users, the Fix Can Be Worse Than the Flaws https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/technology/ai-web-accessibility.html Companies say their A.I.-powered tools are the best way to fix accessibility problems online, but many blind people find they make websites harder to use.
