Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Karen Lewellen]

Kyle,
as I just told your associate Sandra, I have no reason to be patient,
 because  this is a public service, you work for me and others like me.
I am to put my work related library research on hold... until when?
Did you hold public consultations to determine how those who  use the 
library's on line resources would be impacted by your slamming the 
technology door  in their faces? 
Many of whom are using a variety of tools having little to do with 
accessibility so to speak.  For example I was just told you will not 
support 
windows phone users, those phones have a history of not working well with 
Java script...so what are they to do.   Get another  phone because you say 
as much?
I pointed out to Sandra that many who come across these issues are not 
going to complain because they are used to being treated like their needs 
do not matter.  Newcomers using older machines, individuals with print 
disabilities making accessing the library emotionally expensive.  As a 
reporter I have met people say with dyslexia who are actually afraid to 
use the library at all.


So they manage to find private ways to access library services...only to 
now have you tell  them over and over everywhere, you must change your 
technology or you will not be welcome here.
the library is not even choosing words carefully, plus lying about the 
benefits of said new  account for mobile users. 
If you wished me to patient, you would have consulted with the public 
before  shutting us out.
i disagree about your claim regarding notification.  Java scripting is  in 
part supposed to link systems together.  Meaning if I am using a part of 
the site
 your java scripting no longer recognizes,  then notifications will not be 
processed...no way to tell from the outside.
I will add that even some JavaScript friendly browsers like  elinks do not 
work on the areas of the site...at all.
You cannot test everything, and because this is  a public service, 
figuring things out after you have discriminated against taxpayers for whom 
you work is not tolerable.


 On Mon, 14 May 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:


Hi Karen,

The issue with not receiving a call when an item is on hold does not sound
like it has anything to do with javascript as it would occur in the backend
once an item is placed on hold. I would need to open a ticket on this for
further investigation. Just so you know though, if anything like this
happens and you receive a charge, you are able to call the library and
explain the situation and they will generally forego the charge.

The advanced search is something though that I can add to my list of things
to investigate. As a new contractor, one of my goals while I'm here is to
definitely make this site a lot more accessible (and I have noted several
issues here that are not javascript related) than it has been but it is a
very large platform so I appreciate your patience on this matter.

Kyle

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Karen Lewellen 
wrote:


Kyle,
I am speaking of the advance search area of the site.
First two buttons on the home page, search and account, are script taking
you nowhere.
Indeed several choices  down, one finds the text filed for searches.
However, unlike previously the sub categories for choices, movies / dvds,
items I can borrow, etc. are gone.
For example if you search Wayne w dyer, you will get well over  100 items
in the collection.
Now if you wish to narrow, using the advance search, which is the only way
to filter beyond title author and most recent, you are taken to a
page...which states java script is required.
You can select  from an option box for say movie/ dvds, but there is no
button   after the five or so pages of extra choices, branch,  for example,
or language, that even lets you submit the search at all.
Additionally, I have done other small tests, managed to log in via our
separate but not equal door, and place an item on hold...only not to be
called when the item reached a branch incurring a penalty for not picking
up the item.
Suspect that you are so busy telling people what technology they must use
for a taxpayer service that the system does not work in sync.
 Did the Toronto Public Library conduct discussions with the city before
force feeding these technical requirements?




On Mon, 14 May 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:

Hi Karen,

What is the issue with the "requiring a mouse click for searches speaks
volumes"? You never mentioned that before. Currently, I can hit enter
within the search box and it searches without the need for javascript...

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Karen Lewellen 

Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Kyle Bachan]

Hi Karen,

The issue with not receiving a call when an item is on hold does not sound
like it has anything to do with javascript as it would occur in the backend
once an item is placed on hold. I would need to open a ticket on this for
further investigation. Just so you know though, if anything like this
happens and you receive a charge, you are able to call the library and
explain the situation and they will generally forego the charge.

The advanced search is something though that I can add to my list of things
to investigate. As a new contractor, one of my goals while I'm here is to
definitely make this site a lot more accessible (and I have noted several
issues here that are not javascript related) than it has been but it is a
very large platform so I appreciate your patience on this matter.

Kyle

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Karen Lewellen 
wrote:

> Kyle,
> I am speaking of the advance search area of the site.
> First two buttons on the home page, search and account, are script taking
> you nowhere.
> Indeed several choices  down, one finds the text filed for searches.
> However, unlike previously the sub categories for choices, movies / dvds,
> items I can borrow, etc. are gone.
> For example if you search Wayne w dyer, you will get well over  100 items
> in the collection.
> Now if you wish to narrow, using the advance search, which is the only way
> to filter beyond title author and most recent, you are taken to a
> page...which states java script is required.
> You can select  from an option box for say movie/ dvds, but there is no
> button   after the five or so pages of extra choices, branch,  for example,
> or language, that even lets you submit the search at all.
> Additionally, I have done other small tests, managed to log in via our
> separate but not equal door, and place an item on hold...only not to be
> called when the item reached a branch incurring a penalty for not picking
> up the item.
> Suspect that you are so busy telling people what technology they must use
> for a taxpayer service that the system does not work in sync.
>  Did the Toronto Public Library conduct discussions with the city before
> force feeding these technical requirements?
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 14 May 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
>
> Hi Karen,
>> What is the issue with the "requiring a mouse click for searches speaks
>> volumes"? You never mentioned that before. Currently, I can hit enter
>> within the search box and it searches without the need for javascript...
>>
>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Karen Lewellen > >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kyle,
>>> Any update on this effort from your end?
>>> Personally given the back door setup the library is attempting, only Java
>>> script users allowed in the front, I am preparing to contact your
>>> governing
>>> board.
>>> It is a well grounded legal concept in Ontario that public taxpayer
>>> services are to be equal for all...so requiring a mouse click for
>>> searches
>>> speaks volumes.
>>> Karen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
 I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:

 I have a customer who would like to view our website in the text-based
 Lynx
 browser. At the very least, our website should display a message saying
 that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
 However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting thing
 is
 that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
 localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be
 related
 to a certificate or subdomain issue.

 For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
 https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.

 I've posted a stackoverflow question
 
 as well which has some screenshots that might show you more information.
 Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

 Best,
 Kyle



>>
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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Karen Lewellen]

Kyle,
I am speaking of the advance search area of the site.
First two buttons on the home page, search and account, are script taking 
you nowhere.

Indeed several choices  down, one finds the text filed for searches.
However, unlike previously the sub categories for choices, movies / dvds, 
items I can borrow, etc. are gone.
For example if you search Wayne w dyer, you will get well over  100 items 
in the collection.
Now if you wish to narrow, using the advance search, which is the only way 
to 
filter beyond title author and most recent, you are taken to a 
page...which states java script is required.
You can select  from an option box for say movie/ dvds, but there is no 
button   after the five or so pages of extra choices, branch,  for 
example, or language, that even lets you submit the search at all.
Additionally, I have done other small tests, managed to log in via our 
separate but not equal door, and place an item on hold...only not to be 
called when the item reached a branch incurring a penalty for not picking 
up the item.
Suspect that you are so busy telling people what technology they must use 
for a taxpayer service that the system does not work in sync.
 Did the Toronto Public Library conduct discussions with the 
city before force feeding these technical requirements?




On Mon, 14 May 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:


Hi Karen,
What is the issue with the "requiring a mouse click for searches speaks
volumes"? You never mentioned that before. Currently, I can hit enter
within the search box and it searches without the need for javascript...

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Karen Lewellen 
wrote:


Hi Kyle,
Any update on this effort from your end?
Personally given the back door setup the library is attempting, only Java
script users allowed in the front, I am preparing to contact your governing
board.
It is a well grounded legal concept in Ontario that public taxpayer
services are to be equal for all...so requiring a mouse click for searches
speaks volumes.
Karen



On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:

Hello!

I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:

I have a customer who would like to view our website in the text-based
Lynx
browser. At the very least, our website should display a message saying
that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting thing is
that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be
related
to a certificate or subdomain issue.

For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.

I've posted a stackoverflow question

as well which has some screenshots that might show you more information.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

Best,
Kyle






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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Kyle Bachan]

Hi Karen,
What is the issue with the "requiring a mouse click for searches speaks
volumes"? You never mentioned that before. Currently, I can hit enter
within the search box and it searches without the need for javascript...

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Karen Lewellen 
wrote:

> Hi Kyle,
> Any update on this effort from your end?
> Personally given the back door setup the library is attempting, only Java
> script users allowed in the front, I am preparing to contact your governing
> board.
> It is a well grounded legal concept in Ontario that public taxpayer
> services are to be equal for all...so requiring a mouse click for searches
> speaks volumes.
> Karen
>
>
>
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
>
> Hello!
>> I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:
>>
>> I have a customer who would like to view our website in the text-based
>> Lynx
>> browser. At the very least, our website should display a message saying
>> that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
>> However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting thing is
>> that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
>> localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be
>> related
>> to a certificate or subdomain issue.
>>
>> For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
>> https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.
>>
>> I've posted a stackoverflow question
>> > blank-page-in-lynx-browser>
>> as well which has some screenshots that might show you more information.
>> Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.
>>
>> Best,
>> Kyle
>>
>>
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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Kyle,
Any update on this effort from your end?
Personally given the back door setup the library is attempting, only Java 
script users allowed in the front, I am preparing to contact your 
governing board.
It is a well grounded legal concept in Ontario that public taxpayer 
services are to be equal for all...so requiring a mouse click for searches 
speaks volumes.

Karen



On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:


Hello!
I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:

I have a customer who would like to view our website in the text-based Lynx
browser. At the very least, our website should display a message saying
that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting thing is
that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be related
to a certificate or subdomain issue.

For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.

I've posted a stackoverflow question

as well which has some screenshots that might show you more information.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

Best,
Kyle



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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Jude DaShiell]

Do web creation tools even have configuration that can be enabled so 
when web sites get produced they have a certain level of accessibility 
already built in automatically?  I know Adobe hadn't done any of this by 
2013 and probably still didn't do it for creation of flash and pdf and 
whatever other file formats they come up with these days.


On Fri, 13 Apr 2018, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 01:20:49
From: Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net>
To: Jude DaShiell <jdash...@panix.com>
Cc: David Woolley <for...@david-woolley.me.uk>, lynx-dev@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

Tim who?
Additionally, requirements that java script still work from the keyboard 
remain  a part of w3c rules.There are editions of Lynx that can submit from 
script links.  I realize  that can differ from Java scripting but still.

One  w3c resource I like is webaim.org
who details all the issues with Javascript especially void zero links.
Seriously though I wonder how many sites are simply a product of someone 
taking a tool adding stuff and stirring?

In that case  better web creation tools would help as well.
Kare



On Thu, 12 Apr 2018, Jude DaShiell wrote:


 What's really unfortunate about all of this is that javascript can do
 useful tasks on websites in the house cleaning department and had it been
 restricted to that kind of work and not blocking accessibility for all
 browsers it would not have attracted the well earned controversy and
 lightning it has attracted.  The producers of websites are responsible for
 misusing javascript.  I don't know what Tim Burnersley's position on html5
 is but it's been around for long enough for him to have developed one.

 On Thu, 12 Apr 2018, David Woolley wrote:


  Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:44:34
  From: David Woolley <for...@david-woolley.me.uk>
  To: lynx-dev@nongnu.org
  Subject: Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

  On 12/04/18 02:27, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>What would be really neat if it happened is if Tim Burnersley went 
>and did
>a class action suit on all javascript using websites requiring 
>specific
>performance where those sites had to remove permanently all html 
>since

>they had made his html inaccessible by using their

  Unfortunately The World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) Web Content
  Accessibility Group, now considers reliance on ECMAScript as acceptable,
  and has done so, for probably half a decade.  In my view that is because
  it is made up of accessibility consultants and graphical browser
  developers.

  Also note that HTML5 is the product of a coup, by an industry consortium
  and is not controlled by W3C.  W3C wanted a semantically strong
  language,
  document mark-up language.  WHATWG wanted a language for running
  graphical
  applications on browsers, that was defined in such a way that even
  garbage
  produced consistent graphical results across browsers.

  I don't think that Lynx is anywhere close to HTML5 compliance, because
  it
  doesn't parse it in a way that would allow it to use the mandated error
  recovery.

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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Karen Lewellen]

Tim who?
Additionally, requirements that java script still work from the keyboard 
remain  a part of w3c rules.There are editions of Lynx that can submit 
from script links.  I realize  that can differ from Java scripting but 
still.

One  w3c resource I like is webaim.org
who details all the issues with Javascript especially void zero links.
Seriously though I wonder how many sites are simply a product of someone 
taking a tool adding stuff and stirring?

In that case  better web creation tools would help as well.
Kare



On Thu, 12 Apr 2018, Jude DaShiell wrote:

What's really unfortunate about all of this is that javascript can do useful 
tasks on websites in the house cleaning department and had it been restricted 
to that kind of work and not blocking accessibility for all browsers it would 
not have attracted the well earned controversy and lightning it has 
attracted.  The producers of websites are responsible for misusing 
javascript.  I don't know what Tim Burnersley's position on html5 is but it's 
been around for long enough for him to have developed one.


On Thu, 12 Apr 2018, David Woolley wrote:


 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:44:34
 From: David Woolley <for...@david-woolley.me.uk>
 To: lynx-dev@nongnu.org
 Subject: Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

 On 12/04/18 02:27, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>   What would be really neat if it happened is if Tim Burnersley went and 
>   did

>   a class action suit on all javascript using websites requiring specific
>   performance where those sites had to remove permanently all html since
>   they had made his html inaccessible by using their

 Unfortunately The World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) Web Content
 Accessibility Group, now considers reliance on ECMAScript as acceptable,
 and has done so, for probably half a decade.  In my view that is because
 it is made up of accessibility consultants and graphical browser
 developers.

 Also note that HTML5 is the product of a coup, by an industry consortium
 and is not controlled by W3C.  W3C wanted a semantically strong language,
 document mark-up language.  WHATWG wanted a language for running graphical
 applications on browsers, that was defined in such a way that even garbage
 produced consistent graphical results across browsers.

 I don't think that Lynx is anywhere close to HTML5 compliance, because it
 doesn't parse it in a way that would allow it to use the mandated error
 recovery.

 ___
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 Lynx-dev@nongnu.org
 https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev



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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Karen Lewellen]

I would think web developers would use the  dev  editions...they are more 
current time wise.
Kyle I take it you are trying to do this in a mac terminal of some kind 
then?


Karen


On Thu, 12 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:


Yes, I do have the latest version on mac. Dan do you know why I'm unable to
see anything on the website while Karen is?

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 9:46 AM, dan d.  wrote:



No, both macports and homebrew provide the latest version as soon as it is
available, currently Lynx 2.8.8rel.2.

On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Karen Lewellen wrote:


If I am not mistaken, the last edition for the mac is several versions
old.
  2.8.5 or something?
anyway let us know.



On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:


Brew is software that macs use to install programs. I will have to

take a

look at my version when I get to work tomorrow but that would explain

why

I'm not able to connect properly to the website. Once I have a properly
working Lynx browser, it should make it much easier for me to see what

the

site looks like and make the adjustments. But I will investigate

further

tomorrow. Thank you for your help so far.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Karen Lewellen <

klewel...@shellworld.net>

wrote:


Hi Kyle,
I have no idea what brew is.  What edition of Lynx are you using for
testing?
The latest dev edition is dated 21 March 2018..which would be best for
testing.
At the very least  use 2.8.8 which is the last  edition as well.
I should add something else since you are testing.  Make very certain

that

*all* other account related functions work  with this back door in,

placing

holds for example.
As a test during my discussion with tpl staff I went into the  the old
account area.  I also did a search and placed an item on hold.

However I

did not get the customary call informing me that the item was on hold

in

the system, meaning it canceled  instead of letting me get the item.
Additionally even low graphics browsers that support Javascript are

not

working  on your new account page.
For example in the Linux operating system, e-links which can be

compiled

to support java script, and links which  is likewise ocmpiled neither
produce the  back to old account option, nor allow you to log in at

all.

Keep in mind some mobile devices, windows phones for example, do not

work

well  with Java script.
TPL is a public site meaning regardless of browser used   library

patrons

should expect an open door.
If you found an edition of lynx that produced a blank page, then

someone

can use another lower graphics browser and find a comparative barrier.

Karen



On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:

Hi Karen,

Oh, I had no idea you were talking to TPL. I'm actually on their web

team

which is why I'm trying to debug this specific issue. So you're

saying

that
you get the JavaScript message then? Hmm... I installed lynx via brew
which
may be why there is a variation?




On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 5:07 PM Karen Lewellen <

klewel...@shellworld.net>

wrote:

Hi Kyle,

I am presently in discussion with Toronto Library staff about this

issue.

please please please call them and tell them you are having trouble.
What I have shared is that since they are a service for the general
public, the account aspects of the site should not require Java
Script...couldbe a human rights code violation truth be told.
there is a back door in,
type the url like this.
www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/oldaccount.
  When I just checked your link, I did not get a blank page, but the
statement that JavaScript is required.
Again library staff *must* be told of the problem so they  at the

very

least add the old account link to the site homepage. Much as they

had the

old catalog  link there for years.
With your permission, may I share this post with the staff members

I am

communicating with presently?
cheers,
Karen



On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:

Hello!

I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:

I have a customer who would like to view our website in the

text-based



Lynx


browser. At the very least, our website should display a message

saying

that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting

thing



is


that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be


related


to a certificate or subdomain issue.

For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.

I've posted a stackoverflow question
<


https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49758314/website-shows-
blank-page-in-lynx-browser



as well which has some screenshots that might show you more

information.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your

time.


Best,
Kyle










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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Kyle Bachan]

Hi Larry,
Thank you for this--I was thinking it must be a config issue on my end.
Unfortunately though, this did not work for me but I have a feeling this
might be network or computer setup related. I'm going to try running this
when I get home on a different computer and see if there's a difference.
Kyle

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Larry Hynes  wrote:

> Hi Kyle
>
> With a fresh default install of lynx from homebrew all I can see
> when accessing
>
> /usr/local/bin/lynx 'https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/'
>
> is
>
> ---
> Account : Toronto Public Library
> REFRESH(14400 sec): [1]https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/
> ---
>
> If I specify even the default lynx.cfg file, as follows
>
> /usr/local/bin/lynx -cfg /usr/local/Cellar/lynx/2.8.8rel.2_1/etc/lynx.cfg
> \
> 'https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/'
>
> then I see:
>
> ---
> Account : Toronto Public Library
> REFRESH(14400 sec): [1]https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/
>
> We're sorry, you need to enable JavaScript to use the new version of the
> library account.
> [2]Back to old account
> ---
>
> (You can also specify the path to the cfg file by setting the environment
> variable LYNX_CFG)
>
> This might help you.
>
> Kyle Bachan  wrote:
> > Yes, I do have the latest version on mac. Dan do you know why I'm unable
> to
> > see anything on the website while Karen is?
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 9:46 AM, dan d.  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > No, both macports and homebrew provide the latest version as soon as
> it is
> > > available, currently Lynx 2.8.8rel.2.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> > >
> > > > If I am not mistaken, the last edition for the mac is several
> versions
> > > > old.
> > > >   2.8.5 or something?
> > > > anyway let us know.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Brew is software that macs use to install programs. I will have to
> > > take a
> > > > > look at my version when I get to work tomorrow but that would
> explain
> > > why
> > > > > I'm not able to connect properly to the website. Once I have a
> properly
> > > > > working Lynx browser, it should make it much easier for me to see
> what
> > > the
> > > > > site looks like and make the adjustments. But I will investigate
> > > further
> > > > > tomorrow. Thank you for your help so far.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Karen Lewellen <
> > > klewel...@shellworld.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi Kyle,
> > > > >> I have no idea what brew is.  What edition of Lynx are you using
> for
> > > > >> testing?
> > > > >> The latest dev edition is dated 21 March 2018..which would be
> best for
> > > > >> testing.
> > > > >> At the very least  use 2.8.8 which is the last  edition as well.
> > > > >> I should add something else since you are testing.  Make very
> certain
> > > that
> > > > >> *all* other account related functions work  with this back door
> in,
> > > placing
> > > > >> holds for example.
> > > > >> As a test during my discussion with tpl staff I went into the
> the old
> > > > >> account area.  I also did a search and placed an item on hold.
> > > However I
> > > > >> did not get the customary call informing me that the item was on
> hold
> > > in
> > > > >> the system, meaning it canceled  instead of letting me get the
> item.
> > > > >> Additionally even low graphics browsers that support Javascript
> are
> > > not
> > > > >> working  on your new account page.
> > > > >> For example in the Linux operating system, e-links which can be
> > > compiled
> > > > >> to support java script, and links which  is likewise ocmpiled
> neither
> > > > >> produce the  back to old account option, nor allow you to log in
> at
> > > all.
> > > > >> Keep in mind some mobile devices, windows phones for example, do
> not
> > > work
> > > > >> well  with Java script.
> > > > >> TPL is a public site meaning regardless of browser used   library
> > > patrons
> > > > >> should expect an open door.
> > > > >> If you found an edition of lynx that produced a blank page, then
> > > someone
> > > > >> can use another lower graphics browser and find a comparative
> barrier.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Karen
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hi Karen,
> > > > >>> Oh, I had no idea you were talking to TPL. I'm actually on their
> web
> > > team
> > > > >>> which is why I'm trying to debug this specific issue. So you're
> > > saying
> > > > >>> that
> > > > >>> you get the JavaScript message then? Hmm... I installed lynx via
> brew
> > > > >>> which
> > > > >>> may be why there is a variation?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 5:07 PM Karen Lewellen <
> > > klewel...@shellworld.net>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Hi Kyle,
> > > >  I am presently in discussion with Toronto Library 

Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Thorsten Glaser]

David Woolley dixit:

> Also note that HTML5 is the product of a coup, by an industry
> consortium and is not controlled by W3C. W3C wanted a semantically
> strong language, document mark-up language. WHATWG wanted a language
> for running graphical applications on browsers, that was defined in
> such a way that even garbage produced consistent graphical results
> across browsers.

Wow!

Fun side fact: there are two “HTML5”, one by each group; one has
had a formal release, the other is “a living standard”, i.e. can
change on a whim; both are indistinguishable from each other.

I’ve had it had with them and just stick to XHTML/1.1 for my own
webpages. That’s more than sufficient.

bye,
//mirabilos
-- 
“It is inappropriate to require that a time represented as
 seconds since the Epoch precisely represent the number of
 seconds between the referenced time and the Epoch.”
-- IEEE Std 1003.1b-1993 (POSIX) Section B.2.2.2

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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Larry Hynes]

Hi Kyle

With a fresh default install of lynx from homebrew all I can see
when accessing

/usr/local/bin/lynx 'https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/'

is

---
Account : Toronto Public Library
REFRESH(14400 sec): [1]https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/
---

If I specify even the default lynx.cfg file, as follows

/usr/local/bin/lynx -cfg /usr/local/Cellar/lynx/2.8.8rel.2_1/etc/lynx.cfg \
'https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/'

then I see:

---
Account : Toronto Public Library
REFRESH(14400 sec): [1]https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/

We're sorry, you need to enable JavaScript to use the new version of the 
library account.
[2]Back to old account
---

(You can also specify the path to the cfg file by setting the environment
variable LYNX_CFG)

This might help you.

Kyle Bachan  wrote:
> Yes, I do have the latest version on mac. Dan do you know why I'm unable to
> see anything on the website while Karen is?
> 
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 9:46 AM, dan d.  wrote:
> 
> >
> > No, both macports and homebrew provide the latest version as soon as it is
> > available, currently Lynx 2.8.8rel.2.
> >
> > On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> >
> > > If I am not mistaken, the last edition for the mac is several versions
> > > old.
> > >   2.8.5 or something?
> > > anyway let us know.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Brew is software that macs use to install programs. I will have to
> > take a
> > > > look at my version when I get to work tomorrow but that would explain
> > why
> > > > I'm not able to connect properly to the website. Once I have a properly
> > > > working Lynx browser, it should make it much easier for me to see what
> > the
> > > > site looks like and make the adjustments. But I will investigate
> > further
> > > > tomorrow. Thank you for your help so far.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Karen Lewellen <
> > klewel...@shellworld.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Kyle,
> > > >> I have no idea what brew is.  What edition of Lynx are you using for
> > > >> testing?
> > > >> The latest dev edition is dated 21 March 2018..which would be best for
> > > >> testing.
> > > >> At the very least  use 2.8.8 which is the last  edition as well.
> > > >> I should add something else since you are testing.  Make very certain
> > that
> > > >> *all* other account related functions work  with this back door in,
> > placing
> > > >> holds for example.
> > > >> As a test during my discussion with tpl staff I went into the  the old
> > > >> account area.  I also did a search and placed an item on hold.
> > However I
> > > >> did not get the customary call informing me that the item was on hold
> > in
> > > >> the system, meaning it canceled  instead of letting me get the item.
> > > >> Additionally even low graphics browsers that support Javascript are
> > not
> > > >> working  on your new account page.
> > > >> For example in the Linux operating system, e-links which can be
> > compiled
> > > >> to support java script, and links which  is likewise ocmpiled neither
> > > >> produce the  back to old account option, nor allow you to log in at
> > all.
> > > >> Keep in mind some mobile devices, windows phones for example, do not
> > work
> > > >> well  with Java script.
> > > >> TPL is a public site meaning regardless of browser used   library
> > patrons
> > > >> should expect an open door.
> > > >> If you found an edition of lynx that produced a blank page, then
> > someone
> > > >> can use another lower graphics browser and find a comparative barrier.
> > > >>
> > > >> Karen
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi Karen,
> > > >>> Oh, I had no idea you were talking to TPL. I'm actually on their web
> > team
> > > >>> which is why I'm trying to debug this specific issue. So you're
> > saying
> > > >>> that
> > > >>> you get the JavaScript message then? Hmm... I installed lynx via brew
> > > >>> which
> > > >>> may be why there is a variation?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 5:07 PM Karen Lewellen <
> > klewel...@shellworld.net>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi Kyle,
> > >  I am presently in discussion with Toronto Library staff about this
> > issue.
> > >  please please please call them and tell them you are having trouble.
> > >  What I have shared is that since they are a service for the general
> > >  public, the account aspects of the site should not require Java
> > >  Script...couldbe a human rights code violation truth be told.
> > >  there is a back door in,
> > >  type the url like this.
> > >  www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/oldaccount.
> > >    When I just checked your link, I did not get a blank page, but the
> > >  statement that JavaScript is required.
> > >  Again library staff *must* be told of the problem so they  at the
> > 

Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Kyle Bachan]

Yes, I do have the latest version on mac. Dan do you know why I'm unable to
see anything on the website while Karen is?

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 9:46 AM, dan d.  wrote:

>
> No, both macports and homebrew provide the latest version as soon as it is
> available, currently Lynx 2.8.8rel.2.
>
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>
> > If I am not mistaken, the last edition for the mac is several versions
> > old.
> >   2.8.5 or something?
> > anyway let us know.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
> >
> > > Brew is software that macs use to install programs. I will have to
> take a
> > > look at my version when I get to work tomorrow but that would explain
> why
> > > I'm not able to connect properly to the website. Once I have a properly
> > > working Lynx browser, it should make it much easier for me to see what
> the
> > > site looks like and make the adjustments. But I will investigate
> further
> > > tomorrow. Thank you for your help so far.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Karen Lewellen <
> klewel...@shellworld.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Kyle,
> > >> I have no idea what brew is.  What edition of Lynx are you using for
> > >> testing?
> > >> The latest dev edition is dated 21 March 2018..which would be best for
> > >> testing.
> > >> At the very least  use 2.8.8 which is the last  edition as well.
> > >> I should add something else since you are testing.  Make very certain
> that
> > >> *all* other account related functions work  with this back door in,
> placing
> > >> holds for example.
> > >> As a test during my discussion with tpl staff I went into the  the old
> > >> account area.  I also did a search and placed an item on hold.
> However I
> > >> did not get the customary call informing me that the item was on hold
> in
> > >> the system, meaning it canceled  instead of letting me get the item.
> > >> Additionally even low graphics browsers that support Javascript are
> not
> > >> working  on your new account page.
> > >> For example in the Linux operating system, e-links which can be
> compiled
> > >> to support java script, and links which  is likewise ocmpiled neither
> > >> produce the  back to old account option, nor allow you to log in at
> all.
> > >> Keep in mind some mobile devices, windows phones for example, do not
> work
> > >> well  with Java script.
> > >> TPL is a public site meaning regardless of browser used   library
> patrons
> > >> should expect an open door.
> > >> If you found an edition of lynx that produced a blank page, then
> someone
> > >> can use another lower graphics browser and find a comparative barrier.
> > >>
> > >> Karen
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Karen,
> > >>> Oh, I had no idea you were talking to TPL. I'm actually on their web
> team
> > >>> which is why I'm trying to debug this specific issue. So you're
> saying
> > >>> that
> > >>> you get the JavaScript message then? Hmm... I installed lynx via brew
> > >>> which
> > >>> may be why there is a variation?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 5:07 PM Karen Lewellen <
> klewel...@shellworld.net>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Kyle,
> >  I am presently in discussion with Toronto Library staff about this
> issue.
> >  please please please call them and tell them you are having trouble.
> >  What I have shared is that since they are a service for the general
> >  public, the account aspects of the site should not require Java
> >  Script...couldbe a human rights code violation truth be told.
> >  there is a back door in,
> >  type the url like this.
> >  www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/oldaccount.
> >    When I just checked your link, I did not get a blank page, but the
> >  statement that JavaScript is required.
> >  Again library staff *must* be told of the problem so they  at the
> very
> >  least add the old account link to the site homepage. Much as they
> had the
> >  old catalog  link there for years.
> >  With your permission, may I share this post with the staff members
> I am
> >  communicating with presently?
> >  cheers,
> >  Karen
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
> > 
> >  Hello!
> > > I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:
> > >
> > > I have a customer who would like to view our website in the
> text-based
> > >
> >  Lynx
> > 
> > > browser. At the very least, our website should display a message
> saying
> > > that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
> > > However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting
> thing
> > >
> >  is
> > 
> > > that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
> > > localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be
> > >
> >  related
> > 
> 

Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[dan d.]

No, both macports and homebrew provide the latest version as soon as it is 
available, currently Lynx 2.8.8rel.2.

On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> If I am not mistaken, the last edition for the mac is several versions
> old.
>   2.8.5 or something?
> anyway let us know.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
>
> > Brew is software that macs use to install programs. I will have to take a
> > look at my version when I get to work tomorrow but that would explain why
> > I'm not able to connect properly to the website. Once I have a properly
> > working Lynx browser, it should make it much easier for me to see what the
> > site looks like and make the adjustments. But I will investigate further
> > tomorrow. Thank you for your help so far.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Karen Lewellen 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Kyle,
> >> I have no idea what brew is.  What edition of Lynx are you using for
> >> testing?
> >> The latest dev edition is dated 21 March 2018..which would be best for
> >> testing.
> >> At the very least  use 2.8.8 which is the last  edition as well.
> >> I should add something else since you are testing.  Make very certain that
> >> *all* other account related functions work  with this back door in, placing
> >> holds for example.
> >> As a test during my discussion with tpl staff I went into the  the old
> >> account area.  I also did a search and placed an item on hold.  However I
> >> did not get the customary call informing me that the item was on hold in
> >> the system, meaning it canceled  instead of letting me get the item.
> >> Additionally even low graphics browsers that support Javascript are not
> >> working  on your new account page.
> >> For example in the Linux operating system, e-links which can be compiled
> >> to support java script, and links which  is likewise ocmpiled neither
> >> produce the  back to old account option, nor allow you to log in at all.
> >> Keep in mind some mobile devices, windows phones for example, do not work
> >> well  with Java script.
> >> TPL is a public site meaning regardless of browser used   library patrons
> >> should expect an open door.
> >> If you found an edition of lynx that produced a blank page, then someone
> >> can use another lower graphics browser and find a comparative barrier.
> >>
> >> Karen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Karen,
> >>> Oh, I had no idea you were talking to TPL. I'm actually on their web team
> >>> which is why I'm trying to debug this specific issue. So you're saying
> >>> that
> >>> you get the JavaScript message then? Hmm... I installed lynx via brew
> >>> which
> >>> may be why there is a variation?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 5:07 PM Karen Lewellen 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Kyle,
>  I am presently in discussion with Toronto Library staff about this issue.
>  please please please call them and tell them you are having trouble.
>  What I have shared is that since they are a service for the general
>  public, the account aspects of the site should not require Java
>  Script...couldbe a human rights code violation truth be told.
>  there is a back door in,
>  type the url like this.
>  www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/oldaccount.
>    When I just checked your link, I did not get a blank page, but the
>  statement that JavaScript is required.
>  Again library staff *must* be told of the problem so they  at the very
>  least add the old account link to the site homepage. Much as they had the
>  old catalog  link there for years.
>  With your permission, may I share this post with the staff members I am
>  communicating with presently?
>  cheers,
>  Karen
> 
> 
> 
>  On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
> 
>  Hello!
> > I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:
> >
> > I have a customer who would like to view our website in the text-based
> >
>  Lynx
> 
> > browser. At the very least, our website should display a message saying
> > that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
> > However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting thing
> >
>  is
> 
> > that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
> > localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be
> >
>  related
> 
> > to a certificate or subdomain issue.
> >
> > For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
> > https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.
> >
> > I've posted a stackoverflow question
> > <
> >
>  https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49758314/website-shows-
>  blank-page-in-lynx-browser
> 
> >
> > as well which has some screenshots that might show you more information.
> > Any help would 

Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[David Woolley]

On 12/04/18 13:14, Jude DaShiell wrote:
I don't know what Tim Burnersley's position on html5 is but it's been 
around for long enough for him to have developed one.


As I recall, the original papers on HTML says it was specifically not 
intended to be what HTML5 is intended to be be, mainly a presentational 
tool.  I think that the original concept was basically something that 
the average librarian could author directly, but it has become a 
marketing department tool.  Unfortunately I can't find the exact quote 
at the moment.  However, going for a lowest common denominator platform 
was certainly part of the concept, because CERN had lots of different 
operating systems.


Tim Berners-Lee seems to keep quiet on such things these days, but I'd 
also note that he has popular fame for creating something that he didn't 
want to create.


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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Jude DaShiell]

Okay, I have a speech screen reader over here and do check spelling of 
names occassionally, his name slipped through my checks thanks.


On Thu, 12 Apr 2018, Halaasz Saandor wrote:


Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 00:52:23
From: Halaasz Saandor <h...@tbbs.net>
To: lynx-dev@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

2018/04/11 21:27 ... Jude DaShiell:

 What would be really neat if it happened is if Tim Burnersley went and did
 a class action suit


Burnersley? How about Berners-Lee?

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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Jude DaShiell]

What's really unfortunate about all of this is that javascript can do 
useful tasks on websites in the house cleaning department and had it 
been restricted to that kind of work and not blocking accessibility for 
all browsers it would not have attracted the well earned controversy and 
lightning it has attracted.  The producers of websites are responsible 
for misusing javascript.  I don't know what Tim Burnersley's position on 
html5 is but it's been around for long enough for him to have developed 
one.


On Thu, 12 Apr 2018, David Woolley wrote:


Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:44:34
From: David Woolley <for...@david-woolley.me.uk>
To: lynx-dev@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

On 12/04/18 02:27, Jude DaShiell wrote:

 What would be really neat if it happened is if Tim Burnersley went and did
 a class action suit on all javascript using websites requiring specific
 performance where those sites had to remove permanently all html since
 they had made his html inaccessible by using their


Unfortunately The World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) Web Content Accessibility 
Group, now considers reliance on ECMAScript as acceptable, and has done so, 
for probably half a decade.  In my view that is because it is made up of 
accessibility consultants and graphical browser developers.


Also note that HTML5 is the product of a coup, by an industry consortium and 
is not controlled by W3C.  W3C wanted a semantically strong language, 
document mark-up language.  WHATWG wanted a language for running graphical 
applications on browsers, that was defined in such a way that even garbage 
produced consistent graphical results across browsers.


I don't think that Lynx is anywhere close to HTML5 compliance, because it 
doesn't parse it in a way that would allow it to use the mandated error 
recovery.


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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[David Woolley]

On 12/04/18 02:27, Jude DaShiell wrote:
What would be really neat if it happened is if Tim Burnersley went and 
did a class action suit on all javascript using websites requiring 
specific performance where those sites had to remove permanently all 
html since they had made his html inaccessible by using their


Unfortunately The World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) Web Content 
Accessibility Group, now considers reliance on ECMAScript as acceptable, 
and has done so, for probably half a decade.  In my view that is because 
it is made up of accessibility consultants and graphical browser developers.


Also note that HTML5 is the product of a coup, by an industry consortium 
and is not controlled by W3C.  W3C wanted a semantically strong 
language, document mark-up language.  WHATWG wanted a language for 
running graphical applications on browsers, that was defined in such a 
way that even garbage produced consistent graphical results across browsers.


I don't think that Lynx is anywhere close to HTML5 compliance, because 
it doesn't parse it in a way that would allow it to use the mandated 
error recovery.


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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Halaasz Saandor]

2018/04/11 21:27 ... Jude DaShiell:
What would be really neat if it happened is if Tim Burnersley went and 
did a class action suit


Burnersley? How about Berners-Lee?

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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Jude DaShiell]

What would be really neat if it happened is if Tim Burnersley went and 
did a class action suit on all javascript using websites requiring 
specific performance where those sites had to remove permanently all 
html since they had made his html inaccessible by using their javascript 
and if he ultimately won in court all of ecommerce on the internet would 
be seriously threatened.  Now, we all know none of that is ever going to 
happen but I think it would be seriously neat if all of it did happen.


On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Ian Collier wrote:


Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 17:40:13
From: Ian Collier <ian.coll...@cs.ox.ac.uk>
To: lynx-dev@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

(Off topic)

People need to stop with this "We're sorry, you need to enable
Javascript to view this" malarkey.  It strikes me as lazy programming
and I don't know why web designers can't generate this stuff server-side
when it's just a blog or info page that I'm trying to view.

I don't expect to be able to use an app such as Google Maps in Lynx.
But a news article or the info page about a company - I should
absolutely be able to view that in Lynx.

As far as I can tell, every web site built in Wix is completely blank
to a non-JavaScript browser.  Here's a piece of irony:

https://www.wix.engineering/single-post/2017/08/15/The-Story-of-How-We-Made-Wix-Accessible

It's allegedly a blog post entitled "The Story of Making Wix Accessible".
It is of course completely blank in a non-JavaScript browser (Lynx shows
a couple of useless links but apart from that it's blank).

(Sorry for the interruption, normal programming resumes shortly)

imc

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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Kyle Bachan]

Brew is software that macs use to install programs. I will have to take a
look at my version when I get to work tomorrow but that would explain why
I'm not able to connect properly to the website. Once I have a properly
working Lynx browser, it should make it much easier for me to see what the
site looks like and make the adjustments. But I will investigate further
tomorrow. Thank you for your help so far.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Karen Lewellen 
wrote:

> Hi Kyle,
> I have no idea what brew is.  What edition of Lynx are you using for
> testing?
> The latest dev edition is dated 21 March 2018..which would be best for
> testing.
> At the very least  use 2.8.8 which is the last  edition as well.
> I should add something else since you are testing.  Make very certain that
> *all* other account related functions work  with this back door in, placing
> holds for example.
> As a test during my discussion with tpl staff I went into the  the old
> account area.  I also did a search and placed an item on hold.  However I
> did not get the customary call informing me that the item was on hold in
> the system, meaning it canceled  instead of letting me get the item.
> Additionally even low graphics browsers that support Javascript are not
> working  on your new account page.
> For example in the Linux operating system, e-links which can be compiled
> to support java script, and links which  is likewise ocmpiled neither
> produce the  back to old account option, nor allow you to log in at all.
> Keep in mind some mobile devices, windows phones for example, do not work
> well  with Java script.
> TPL is a public site meaning regardless of browser used   library patrons
> should expect an open door.
> If you found an edition of lynx that produced a blank page, then someone
> can use another lower graphics browser and find a comparative barrier.
>
> Karen
>
>
>
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
>
> Hi Karen,
>> Oh, I had no idea you were talking to TPL. I'm actually on their web team
>> which is why I'm trying to debug this specific issue. So you're saying
>> that
>> you get the JavaScript message then? Hmm... I installed lynx via brew
>> which
>> may be why there is a variation?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 5:07 PM Karen Lewellen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kyle,
>>> I am presently in discussion with Toronto Library staff about this issue.
>>> please please please call them and tell them you are having trouble.
>>> What I have shared is that since they are a service for the general
>>> public, the account aspects of the site should not require Java
>>> Script...couldbe a human rights code violation truth be told.
>>> there is a back door in,
>>> type the url like this.
>>> www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/oldaccount.
>>>   When I just checked your link, I did not get a blank page, but the
>>> statement that JavaScript is required.
>>> Again library staff *must* be told of the problem so they  at the very
>>> least add the old account link to the site homepage. Much as they had the
>>> old catalog  link there for years.
>>> With your permission, may I share this post with the staff members I am
>>> communicating with presently?
>>> cheers,
>>> Karen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello!
 I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:

 I have a customer who would like to view our website in the text-based

>>> Lynx
>>>
 browser. At the very least, our website should display a message saying
 that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
 However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting thing

>>> is
>>>
 that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
 localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be

>>> related
>>>
 to a certificate or subdomain issue.

 For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
 https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.

 I've posted a stackoverflow question
 <

>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49758314/website-shows-
>>> blank-page-in-lynx-browser
>>>

 as well which has some screenshots that might show you more information.
 Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

 Best,
 Kyle


>>>
>>
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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Kyle,
I have no idea what brew is.  What edition of Lynx are you using for 
testing?
The latest dev edition is dated 21 March 2018..which would be best for 
testing.

At the very least  use 2.8.8 which is the last  edition as well.
I should add something else since you are testing.  Make very certain that 
*all* other account related functions work  with this back door in, 
placing holds for example.
As a test during my discussion with tpl staff I went into the  the old 
account area.  I also did a search and placed an item on hold.  However I 
did not get the customary call informing me that the item was on hold in 
the system, meaning it canceled  instead of letting me get the item.
Additionally even low graphics browsers that support Javascript are not 
working  on your new account page.
For example in the Linux operating system, e-links which can be compiled 
to support java script, and links which  is likewise ocmpiled neither 
produce the  back to old account option, nor allow you to log in at all.
Keep in mind some mobile devices, windows phones for example, do not work 
well  with Java script.
TPL is a public site meaning regardless of browser used   library patrons 
should expect an open door.
If you found an edition of lynx that produced a blank page, then someone 
can use another lower graphics browser and find a comparative barrier.

Karen



On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:


Hi Karen,
Oh, I had no idea you were talking to TPL. I'm actually on their web team
which is why I'm trying to debug this specific issue. So you're saying that
you get the JavaScript message then? Hmm... I installed lynx via brew which
may be why there is a variation?




On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 5:07 PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:


Hi Kyle,
I am presently in discussion with Toronto Library staff about this issue.
please please please call them and tell them you are having trouble.
What I have shared is that since they are a service for the general
public, the account aspects of the site should not require Java
Script...couldbe a human rights code violation truth be told.
there is a back door in,
type the url like this.
www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/oldaccount.
  When I just checked your link, I did not get a blank page, but the
statement that JavaScript is required.
Again library staff *must* be told of the problem so they  at the very
least add the old account link to the site homepage. Much as they had the
old catalog  link there for years.
With your permission, may I share this post with the staff members I am
communicating with presently?
cheers,
Karen



On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:


Hello!
I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:

I have a customer who would like to view our website in the text-based

Lynx

browser. At the very least, our website should display a message saying
that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting thing

is

that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be

related

to a certificate or subdomain issue.

For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.

I've posted a stackoverflow question
<

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49758314/website-shows-blank-page-in-lynx-browser


as well which has some screenshots that might show you more information.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

Best,
Kyle







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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Ian Collier]

(Off topic)

People need to stop with this "We're sorry, you need to enable
Javascript to view this" malarkey.  It strikes me as lazy programming
and I don't know why web designers can't generate this stuff server-side
when it's just a blog or info page that I'm trying to view.

I don't expect to be able to use an app such as Google Maps in Lynx.
But a news article or the info page about a company - I should
absolutely be able to view that in Lynx.

As far as I can tell, every web site built in Wix is completely blank
to a non-JavaScript browser.  Here's a piece of irony:

https://www.wix.engineering/single-post/2017/08/15/The-Story-of-How-We-Made-Wix-Accessible

It's allegedly a blog post entitled "The Story of Making Wix Accessible".
It is of course completely blank in a non-JavaScript browser (Lynx shows
a couple of useless links but apart from that it's blank).

(Sorry for the interruption, normal programming resumes shortly)

imc

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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Russell,
Thanks for your take too.  I have to do that again, because I did not even 
notice  the back to old account  option, which is why I am telling them to 
place  a reference,  under the main your account option on their home page 
which   is here.

www.torontopubliclibrary.ca
Karen



On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, russellb...@gmail.com wrote:


Quoth Kyle Bachan: 'For reference, the website I am trying to access 
via Lynx is
https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/'
I get:


  Account : Toronto Public 
Library
   REFRESH(14400 sec): [1]https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/

   We're sorry, you need to enable JavaScript to use the new version of the 
library account. [2]Back to old account


Choosing 'Back to old account' gets me something useful.


Quoth Kyle Bachan:  'to a certificate or subdomain issue'
I've never had certificates matter to lynx.  I don't know what
you mean by subdomain issue.

If the user is logging lynx's output there may be an answer in it.

If this page requires JavaScript, lynx isn't going to use it;
would it better serve this user to go straight to the old account
page?  What does the user's

lynx --version

return?

russell bell

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[Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[russellbell]

Quoth Kyle Bachan: 'For reference, the website I am trying to access 
via Lynx is
https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/'
I get:


   Account : Toronto Public 
Library
REFRESH(14400 sec): [1]https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/

We're sorry, you need to enable JavaScript to use the new version of 
the library account. [2]Back to old account


Choosing 'Back to old account' gets me something useful.


Quoth Kyle Bachan:  'to a certificate or subdomain issue'
I've never had certificates matter to lynx.  I don't know what
you mean by subdomain issue.

If the user is logging lynx's output there may be an answer in it.

If this page requires JavaScript, lynx isn't going to use it;
would it better serve this user to go straight to the old account
page?  What does the user's

lynx --version

return?

russell bell

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Re: [Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Kyle,
I am presently in discussion with Toronto Library staff about this issue.
please please please call them and tell them you are having trouble.
What I have shared is that since they are a service for the general 
public, the account aspects of the site should not require Java 
Script...couldbe a human rights code violation truth be told.

there is a back door in,
type the url like this.
www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/oldaccount.
 When I just checked your link, I did not get a blank page, but the 
statement that JavaScript is required.
Again library staff *must* be told of the problem so they  at the very 
least add the old account link to the site homepage. Much as they had the 
old catalog  link there for years.
With your permission, may I share this post with the staff members I am 
communicating with presently?

cheers,
Karen



On Wed, 11 Apr 2018, Kyle Bachan wrote:


Hello!
I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:

I have a customer who would like to view our website in the text-based Lynx
browser. At the very least, our website should display a message saying
that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting thing is
that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be related
to a certificate or subdomain issue.

For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.

I've posted a stackoverflow question

as well which has some screenshots that might show you more information.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

Best,
Kyle



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[Lynx-dev] Website shows blank page in Lynx browser

[Kyle Bachan]

Hello!
I have a Lynx problem that you might be able to help with:

I have a customer who would like to view our website in the text-based Lynx
browser. At the very least, our website should display a message saying
that "We're sorry, you need to enable Javascript to view this" etc.
However, this page appears to show blank in Lynx. The interesting thing is
that I do see the correct content appearing when connecting to the
localhost version of the browser which makes me think this might be related
to a certificate or subdomain issue.

For reference, the website I am trying to access via Lynx is
https://account.torontopubliclibrary.ca/.

I've posted a stackoverflow question

as well which has some screenshots that might show you more information.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

Best,
Kyle
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