Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
On Sun, 29 Oct 2000, R. Lahaye wrote: "Lars Gullik Bjønnes" wrote: "R. Lahaye" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | Hi, | | The Save button in the Preferences dialog | does the save, but also closes the dialog. What if it said "Ok"? I can't follow in what direction you are thinking. Just adding an Ok button wouldn't solve the confusion. My intuitive feelings tell me: Save : save the current preferences settings to somewhere (is that ~/.lyx/lyxrc ?), such that I will have the save settings again when I restart LyX the next time. The Save should then perform an Apply, see next. Yes. Apply : Apply the current preferences settings to the current document(s). They are NOT saved beyond the current session, so LyX won't use them when restarted the next time. When I open the dialog again (within the same session), the previously applied settings should be there. So the applied preferences have to be saved somewhere else temporarily until the end of this LyX-session (/tmp/lyx_tmp/lyxrc ?). The Apply'd entries are stored in memory and used by LyX (in the lyxrc variable). Restore : Restore old settings. But which old settings? The user ones in ~/.lyx/lyxrc ? Or system ones in /usr/local/LyX/share/lyxrc ? Or old settings elsewhere (e.g. /tmp/lyx_tmp/lyxrc) ? Obviously, I don't like such a ambiguous Restore button. Restores the most recently Apply'd values (ie. whatever the lyxrc variable contains -- at startup this will be the combination of system-lyxrc and either ~/.lyx/lyxrc or ~/.lyx/preferences depending on whether or preferences exists. Obviously I didn't think it was ambiguous when I designed it. Close : Just close the dialog. Don't Apply or Save anything (in other words: forget about changes I've made since the last Save or Apply). Yes. -- In the above I've used several times "document(s)". Suddenly it pops in my mind that it is very probable that I have several documents loaded, and some of the preferences may not be the same for all documents. Then you have a real problem because the lyxrc settings are read from a file and always the same file irrespective of what sort of document you are editting. Any document specific settings should be in the Document dialog. There are some global defaults in Preferences that are overridden by Document settings but these are provided so users can setup lyx for whatever their most common needs are. Any uncommon needs are then catered for by changing the entries in the Document dialog or better yet using a template file. This can be, for example: - language vs. language setting in preferences. - LaTeX preamble (I've heard rumours that this should be merged with Preferences. True?) Rumour only. It might end up in Document but it shouldn't really need to be in Preferences. Allan. (ARRae)
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, R. Lahaye wrote: Angus Leeming wrote: The idea behind the buttons in the preferences dialog is "Close/Cancel": self explanatory? "Apply":apply these changes for this session only. "Save": save these changes so that they can be applied next time also. Would you rather press Save and then Close or have the button called SaveClose? I would then use merely three buttons in this dialog: OK: apply the preferences to the current document(s) (do NOT save them for a next session). Close also the preferences dialog. Save: save the the settings to file and *apply* also to current document(s); these settings will also be used next time LyX is started. Do NOT close the dialog. Cancel: close the window without saving or applying anything. Perhaps you don't understand the Ok,Apply,Cancel model we use on the other dialogs? I find this proposal of yours confusing. Apply means set these changes for use now but leave the dialog open so I can fiddle about some more. We do that already in this dialog. OK is usually used to make a permanent change and close the dialog. I chose to rename OK to Save because in this dialog the change doesn't just occur in memory it is written to disk and will affect future lyx sessions. Allan. (ARRae)
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
On Sun, 29 Oct 2000, R. Lahaye wrote: > "Lars Gullik Bjønnes" wrote: > > > > "R. Lahaye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > | Hi, > > | > > | The button in the Preferences dialog > > | does the save, but also closes the dialog. > > What if it said "Ok"? > > I can't follow in what direction you are thinking. > Just adding an button wouldn't solve the > confusion. My intuitive feelings tell me: > > : save the current preferences settings to > somewhere (is that ~/.lyx/lyxrc ?), such that > I will have the save settings again when I restart > LyX the next time. > The should then perform an , see > next. Yes. > : Apply the current preferences settings to > the current document(s). They are NOT saved beyond > the current session, so LyX won't use them when > restarted the next time. > When I open the dialog again (within the same > session), the previously applied settings should > be there. So the applied preferences have to be > saved somewhere else temporarily until the end of > this LyX-session (/tmp/lyx_tmp/lyxrc ?). The Apply'd entries are stored in memory and used by LyX (in the lyxrc variable). > : Restore old settings. But which old settings? > The user ones in ~/.lyx/lyxrc ? Or system ones > in /usr/local/LyX/share/lyxrc ? > Or old settings elsewhere (e.g. /tmp/lyx_tmp/lyxrc) ? > Obviously, I don't like such a ambiguous > button. Restores the most recently Apply'd values (ie. whatever the lyxrc variable contains -- at startup this will be the combination of system-lyxrc and either ~/.lyx/lyxrc or ~/.lyx/preferences depending on whether or preferences exists. Obviously I didn't think it was ambiguous when I designed it. > : Just close the dialog. Don't Apply or Save > anything (in other words: forget about changes > I've made since the last or ). Yes. > -- > > In the above I've used several times "document(s)". > Suddenly it pops in my mind that it is very probable > that I have several documents loaded, and some > of the preferences may not be the same for all documents. Then you have a real problem because the lyxrc settings are read from a file and always the same file irrespective of what sort of document you are editting. Any document specific settings should be in the Document dialog. There are some global defaults in Preferences that are overridden by Document settings but these are provided so users can setup lyx for whatever their most common needs are. Any uncommon needs are then catered for by changing the entries in the Document dialog or better yet using a template file. > This can be, for example: > - language vs. language setting in preferences. > - LaTeX preamble > (I've heard rumours that this should be merged with >Preferences. True?) Rumour only. It might end up in Document but it shouldn't really need to be in Preferences. Allan. (ARRae)
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, R. Lahaye wrote: > Angus Leeming wrote: > > The idea behind the buttons in the preferences dialog is > > "Close/Cancel": self explanatory? > > "Apply":apply these changes for this session only. > > "Save": save these changes so that they can be applied > > next time also. > > Would you rather press Save and then Close or have the button called > > Save? > > I would then use merely three buttons in this dialog: > : apply the preferences to the current document(s) > (do NOT save them for a next session). > Close also the preferences dialog. > > : save the the settings to file and *apply* also > to current document(s); these settings will > also be used next time LyX is started. > Do NOT close the dialog. > > : close the window without saving or applying anything. Perhaps you don't understand the Ok,Apply,Cancel model we use on the other dialogs? I find this proposal of yours confusing. Apply means set these changes for use now but leave the dialog open so I can fiddle about some more. We do that already in this dialog. OK is usually used to make a permanent change and close the dialog. I chose to rename OK to Save because in this dialog the change doesn't just occur in memory it is written to disk and will affect future lyx sessions. Allan. (ARRae)
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
On Sun, 29 Oct 2000, R. Lahaye wrote: Hi, The Save button in the Preferences dialog does the save, but also closes the dialog. Is that appropriate? I myself do not expect the dialog to close automagically after a save. This is what might be called a bug. I'm not sure. The idea behind the buttons in the preferences dialog is "Close/Cancel": self explanatory? "Apply":apply these changes for this session only. "Save": save these changes so that they can be applied next time also. Would you rather press Save and then Close or have the button called SaveClose? Angus
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, R. Lahaye wrote: Angus Leeming wrote: The idea behind the buttons in the preferences dialog is "Close/Cancel": self explanatory? "Apply":apply these changes for this session only. "Save": save these changes so that they can be applied next time also. Would you rather press Save and then Close or have the button called SaveClose? I would then use merely three buttons in this dialog: OK: apply the preferences to the current document(s) (do NOT save them for a next session). Close also the preferences dialog. Save: save the the settings to file and *apply* also to current document(s); these settings will also be used next time LyX is started. Do NOT close the dialog. Cancel: close the window without saving or applying anything. Well now. You are merely introducing a slightly different way of doing things. One way is no better than the other IMO. Users will soon learn what happens. I would strongly recommend to drop the Restore button. What does it restore? The saved settings, or the 'OK'ed settings? Or the system-wide settings? Far too un-intuitive! This is now it works. You play with the settings, but decide that you don't want to apply them, so "Restore" the settings to the current contents of lyxrc (ie, what are displayed should you press Cancel and then launch the dialog again). A
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
On Sun, 29 Oct 2000, R. Lahaye wrote: > Hi, > > The button in the Preferences dialog > does the save, but also closes the dialog. > > Is that appropriate? > > I myself do not expect the dialog to close > automagically after a save. This is what might be called a bug. I'm not sure. The idea behind the buttons in the preferences dialog is "Close/Cancel": self explanatory? "Apply":apply these changes for this session only. "Save": save these changes so that they can be applied next time also. Would you rather press Save and then Close or have the button called Save? Angus
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, R. Lahaye wrote: > Angus Leeming wrote: > > The idea behind the buttons in the preferences dialog is > > "Close/Cancel": self explanatory? > > "Apply":apply these changes for this session only. > > "Save": save these changes so that they can be applied > > next time also. > > Would you rather press Save and then Close or have the button called > > Save? > > I would then use merely three buttons in this dialog: > : apply the preferences to the current document(s) > (do NOT save them for a next session). > Close also the preferences dialog. > > : save the the settings to file and *apply* also > to current document(s); these settings will > also be used next time LyX is started. > Do NOT close the dialog. > > : close the window without saving or applying anything. Well now. You are merely introducing a slightly different way of doing things. One way is no better than the other IMO. Users will soon learn what happens. > I would strongly recommend to drop the button. > What does it restore? The saved settings, or the 'OK'ed > settings? Or the system-wide settings? Far too un-intuitive! This is now it works. You play with the settings, but decide that you don't want to apply them, so "Restore" the settings to the current contents of lyxrc (ie, what are displayed should you press Cancel and then launch the dialog again). A
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
"R. Lahaye" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | The Save button in the Preferences dialog | | does the save, but also closes the dialog. | What if it said "Ok"? | | I can't follow in what direction you are thinking. | Just adding an Ok button wouldn't solve the | confusion. I thought more of just changing "save" to "ok" and be done with it. Lgb
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
"Lars Gullik Bjnnes" wrote: "R. Lahaye" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | The Save button in the Preferences dialog | | does the save, but also closes the dialog. | What if it said "Ok"? | | I can't follow in what direction you are thinking. | Just adding an Ok button wouldn't solve the | confusion. I thought more of just changing "save" to "ok" and be done with it. Well, it's easy for me to criticize the dialog's layout, but I still believe the current layout and setup should be more intuitive. Que sera, sera... Rob.
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
"R. Lahaye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: | > | The button in the Preferences dialog | > | does the save, but also closes the dialog. | > What if it said "Ok"? | | I can't follow in what direction you are thinking. | Just adding an button wouldn't solve the | confusion. I thought more of just changing "save" to "ok" and be done with it. Lgb
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
"Lars Gullik Bjnnes" wrote: > > "R. Lahaye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > | > | The button in the Preferences dialog > | > | does the save, but also closes the dialog. > | > What if it said "Ok"? > | > | I can't follow in what direction you are thinking. > | Just adding an button wouldn't solve the > | confusion. > > I thought more of just changing "save" to "ok" and be done with it. > Well, it's easy for me to criticize the dialog's layout, but I still believe the current layout and setup should be more intuitive. Que sera, sera... Rob.
Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
Hi, The Save button in the Preferences dialog does the save, but also closes the dialog. Is that appropriate? I myself do not expect the dialog to close automagically after a save. R.
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
"R. Lahaye" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | Hi, | | The Save button in the Preferences dialog | does the save, but also closes the dialog. | | Is that appropriate? | | I myself do not expect the dialog to close | automagically after a save. What if it said "Ok"? I am not sure if we should disclose to the user that there is any "saving" going on. For all I know we just store the preferences in a corba/persistent object/database thingie. Lgb
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
"Lars Gullik Bjnnes" wrote: "R. Lahaye" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | Hi, | | The Save button in the Preferences dialog | does the save, but also closes the dialog. What if it said "Ok"? I can't follow in what direction you are thinking. Just adding an Ok button wouldn't solve the confusion. Sorry, maybe I've sent my previous reply to quick. The following buttons could make more sense: Ok Apply Save Cancel Save and Apply do as I described in my previous message. Cancel does what you expect: forget everything since the last Save or Apply and close the dialog. Ok : same as Apply + Cancel. Drop that confusing Restore button! If you need that action, do a Cancel and open the Preferences dialog again. Rob.
Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
Hi, The button in the Preferences dialog does the save, but also closes the dialog. Is that appropriate? I myself do not expect the dialog to close automagically after a save. R.
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
"R. Lahaye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: | Hi, | | The button in the Preferences dialog | does the save, but also closes the dialog. | | Is that appropriate? | | I myself do not expect the dialog to close | automagically after a save. What if it said "Ok"? I am not sure if we should disclose to the user that there is any "saving" going on. For all I know we just store the preferences in a corba/persistent object/database thingie. Lgb
Re: Preferences dialog: Save = Close ??
> "Lars Gullik Bjnnes" wrote: > > > > "R. Lahaye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > | Hi, > > | > > | The button in the Preferences dialog > > | does the save, but also closes the dialog. > > What if it said "Ok"? > > I can't follow in what direction you are thinking. > Just adding an button wouldn't solve the > confusion. Sorry, maybe I've sent my previous reply to quick. The following buttons could make more sense: and do as I described in my previous message. does what you expect: forget everything since the last or and close the dialog. : same as + . Drop that confusing button! If you need that action, do a and open the Preferences dialog again. Rob.
