date:20090329

Hello, 
I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common users 
(I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates in my 
mailbox).
A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we use 
a normal forum site?
There's a LyX forum in LaTeX community but it's not as active as this 
discussion list; anyway I found that, as I did, other users posted something 
for this list in Nabble and then didn't get the answers because they didn't 
know Nabble don't post messages not posted directly there.
I think current (as past) LyX politic should be GO FOR THE AVERAGE USER, be 
simple and easy. Why LaTeX have a lot of forum sites, while LyX doesn't???
Lack of information or access to information is the worst (and senseless) way 
to discourage LyX users.
Thx
Piero

Re: LyX Forum?

Piero Faustini schrieb:

I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common users

Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the emails as
described here:
http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists
The whole list is archived at various websites.

A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we use
a normal forum site?

I don't see an advantage. At forums I always have to log in before I can post and I have to open the
webpage to reply. That means I every time have to enable cookies in my browser, then enter my user
name and password and then write afterwards I have to delete my browser history and disable cookies.
With a mailing list I only have to subscribe once and get the emails whenever I want to. I can also
store important mails at my PC, forward messages, compose messages out of several other ones, CC and
BCC people, All this is not possible with a forum.

I think current (as past) LyX politic should be GO FOR THE AVERAGE USER, be
simple and easy. Why LaTeX have a lot of forum sites, while LyX doesn't???
Lack of information or access to information is the worst (and senseless) way
to discourage LyX users.

I think that LyX is one of the best documented projects and our user support is outstanding. When
you have a problem with LyX you'll usually get a solution within a day or two. So I'm interested why
you think LyX lacks information.

regards Uwe

Re: upload a custom layout


nick schrieb:


Ok, I think that I can make a Russian translation of LyX's strings.
But I wonder if I can start from russian ru.po instead of Ukrainian 
uk.po.


Of course you can also start from ru.po. Use what suits you the most.

regards Uwe

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Piero Faustini wrote:


I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common users
(I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates in my
mailbox).


You can disable the daily updates to your mailbox and exclusively use 
GMANE.


Oh, I should probably mention that I'm accessing this list pureley as a 
news group, which I guess you might consider a forum although I do it with 
a separate news client.


cheers,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: LyX Forum?

Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@... writes:

 Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the emails as 
described here:
 http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists
 The whole list is archived at various websites.
 

How many people use mailing lists? How many use forums? Say 1 lister every 20 
forumers? Say 1 to 10 (and I'm fair)? It's not me who says lists are 
difficoult, it's people. I never used lists before knowing LyX.  

 I don't see an advantage. At forums I always have to log in before I can post 
and I have to open the 
 webpage to reply. That means I every time have to enable cookies in my 
browser, then enter my user 
 name and password and then write afterwards I have to delete my browser 
history and disable cookies. 
 With a mailing list I only have to subscribe once and get the emails whenever 
I want to. I can also 
 store important mails at my PC, forward messages, compose messages out of 
several other ones, CC and 
 BCC people,  All this is not possible with a forum.

It's 10 years since last time I disabled cookies. I'm a Windows (95% of time) 
integrate internet user as millions more. I use cookies in my Xandros OS too. 
Integrate doesn't mean computer-pro. Sometimes it's opposite to pro.
Children use forums. They always had, because they are very, VERY simple. Lists 
are not that simple, comparing to forums (unless you care about cookies, which 
99% of people don't). Everything has its thumb up and down. I believe you that 
with lists you can do many things which a forum can't. But that's not the 
point. Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages, so they are 
for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess they will be ONLY 
for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it works (I spent some days 
puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to wrong addresses till I went to 
GMANE and used its forum-like interface)


 I think that LyX is one of the best documented projects and our user support 
is outstanding. When 
 you have a problem with LyX you'll usually get a solution within a day or 
two. So I'm interested why 
 you think LyX lacks information.

100% agree with you. I didn't want to say LyX lacks information. LyX 
information is GREAT and of 1st quality and fast and reliable and sincere. Just 
that if you can't have access to this information, it's value is ZERO, no 
matter why you didn't have access.
Let's say my name is Joe Average and I'm one of those 1000 potential LyX users 
who weekly crash in site. I use Windows and used MS Access at basic level once. 
I know something about html. I'm smart so I use OOo Writer with styles. I use 
the internet everyday. FULL STOP.
I found Lyx.org just because I read something, in a forum ;) of students. I try 
to use it and I get it working but that very day I get stuck trying to use some 
pics. Guide says I have to learn how to install it properly, and the basics of 
LaTeX. That's fair. Then I have to tweak something in the preamble. Ok. I have 
to change completely my Word-formatted mind. HARD, BUT I CAN. I just need some 
help, and LaTeX forums are not for LyXers and they're always with all that \$%. 
Then, they say me that I have to learn how to use a list (something I heard of 
at the beginning of the internet). I try once, twice. I give up lists. I give 
up LyX.
Hope will be better for next 999 users but I don't believe it.

Against common Scientific-pro based opinions, I think LyX strategy should be 
GO TO THE PEOPLE, to students, to humanists, to people who are not computer-
pros which are millions. They still have to learn something aboute code etc. 
but the LyX community should ban everything which could stay between them and 
LyX and of course between them and LyX information (and is not strictly 
needed). Lists are just one of these little annoying things. I didn't say we 
have to use Facebook or a social site or something like that. Just a simple, 
plain forum. In a modern forum you can use a lot of features, but you need 
cookies, of course ;) .
If the entire discussion moved there, everything would be better for new users.

Well this is my idea.
thanks for your opinion
Piero

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread Stefano Franchi

On Sunday 29 March 2009 11:56:18 Piero Faustini wrote:
 Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@... writes:
  Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the emails
  as

 described here:
  http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists
  The whole list is archived at various websites.

 How many people use mailing lists? How many use forums? Say 1 lister every
 20 forumers? Say 1 to 10 (and I'm fair)? It's not me who says lists are
 difficoult, it's people. I never used lists before knowing LyX.

  I don't see an advantage. At forums I always have to log in before I can
  post

 and I have to open the

  webpage to reply. That means I every time have to enable cookies in my

 browser, then enter my user

  name and password and then write afterwards I have to delete my browser

 history and disable cookies.

  With a mailing list I only have to subscribe once and get the emails
  whenever

 I want to. I can also

  store important mails at my PC, forward messages, compose messages out of

 several other ones, CC and

  BCC people,  All this is not possible with a forum.

 It's 10 years since last time I disabled cookies. I'm a Windows (95% of
 time) integrate internet user as millions more. I use cookies in my
 Xandros OS too. Integrate doesn't mean computer-pro. Sometimes it's
 opposite to pro. Children use forums. They always had, because they are
 very, VERY simple. Lists are not that simple, comparing to forums (unless
 you care about cookies, which 99% of people don't). Everything has its
 thumb up and down. I believe you that with lists you can do many things
 which a forum can't. But that's not the point. Lists are difficoult to use
 comparing to their advantages, so they are for PRO users, almost always
 have been, and in future I guess they will be ONLY for pro. Their worst
 difficoulty is to LEARN how it works (I spent some days puzzling and
 puzzling and sending messages to wrong addresses till I went to GMANE and
 used its forum-like interface)

  I think that LyX is one of the best documented projects and our user
  support

 is outstanding. When

  you have a problem with LyX you'll usually get a solution within a day or

 two. So I'm interested why

  you think LyX lacks information.

 100% agree with you. I didn't want to say LyX lacks information. LyX
 information is GREAT and of 1st quality and fast and reliable and sincere.
 Just that if you can't have access to this information, it's value is ZERO,
 no matter why you didn't have access.
 Let's say my name is Joe Average and I'm one of those 1000 potential LyX
 users who weekly crash in site. I use Windows and used MS Access at basic
 level once. I know something about html. I'm smart so I use OOo Writer with
 styles. I use the internet everyday. FULL STOP.
 I found Lyx.org just because I read something, in a forum ;) of students. I
 try to use it and I get it working but that very day I get stuck trying to
 use some pics. Guide says I have to learn how to install it properly, and
 the basics of LaTeX. That's fair. Then I have to tweak something in the
 preamble. Ok. I have to change completely my Word-formatted mind. HARD, BUT
 I CAN. I just need some help, and LaTeX forums are not for LyXers and
 they're always with all that \$%. Then, they say me that I have to learn
 how to use a list (something I heard of at the beginning of the internet).
 I try once, twice. I give up lists. I give up LyX.
 Hope will be better for next 999 users but I don't believe it.

 Against common Scientific-pro based opinions, I think LyX strategy should
 be GO TO THE PEOPLE, to students, to humanists, to people who are not
 computer- pros which are millions. They still have to learn something
 aboute code etc. but the LyX community should ban everything which could
 stay between them and LyX and of course between them and LyX information
 (and is not strictly needed). Lists are just one of these little annoying
 things. I didn't say we have to use Facebook or a social site or something
 like that. Just a simple, plain forum. In a modern forum you can use a lot
 of features, but you need cookies, of course ;) .
 If the entire discussion moved there, everything would be better for new
 users.

 Well this is my idea.
 thanks for your opinion
 Piero

Like Uwe, I am not quite sure I understand what's so difficult about lists. 
That 
is, unless you are used to reading mail in a browser and never used a mail 
client. Lists have also many advantages, which Uwe summed up nicely. However, 
I am also old enough to have used e-mail for years before browsing came into 
existence, so what Piero is saying may just be a pointer to a generational 
gap.

The issue though, is that the great support Lyx provides is (mostly) in the 
hands of a relatively small group of people who very generously share their 
time and expertise---Uwe himself being perhaps the most active member of this 
group. What they prefer is the law of lyx-land!

Cheers,

S.

Re: LyX Forum?


Stefano Franchi schrieb:

The issue though, is that the great support Lyx provides is (mostly) in the 
hands of a relatively small group of people who very generously share their 
time and expertise---Uwe himself being perhaps the most active member of this 
group. What they prefer is the law of lyx-land!


What I prefer is hopefully never a law! LyX used mailing lists for years long 
before I joined LyX.
(I started supporting LyX with its mailing list btw. and I cannot think right now that anything else 
might be easier. And I'm 29, so not too old not to know the possibilities of forums ;-) )


regards Uwe

Re: LyX Forum?

2009/3/29 Piero Faustini pierofaust...@hotmail.com

 [...]
 Integrate doesn't mean computer-pro. Sometimes it's opposite to pro.
 Children use forums. They always had, because they are very, VERY simple.
 Lists
 are not that simple, comparing to forums (unless you care about cookies,
 which
 99% of people don't). Everything has its thumb up and down. I believe you
 that
 with lists you can do many things which a forum can't. But that's not the
 point. Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages, so they
 are
 for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess they will be
 ONLY
 for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it works (I spent some
 days
 puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to wrong addresses till I went
 to
 GMANE and used its forum-like interface)

 [...]
 I found Lyx.org just because I read something, in a forum ;) of students. I
 try
 to use it and I get it working but that very day I get stuck trying to use
 some
 pics. Guide says I have to learn how to install it properly, and the basics
 of
 LaTeX. That's fair. Then I have to tweak something in the preamble. Ok. I
 have
 to change completely my Word-formatted mind. HARD, BUT I CAN. I just need
 some
 help, and LaTeX forums are not for LyXers and they're always with all that
 \$%.
 Then, they say me that I have to learn how to use a list (something I heard
 of
 at the beginning of the internet). I try once, twice. I give up lists. I
 give
 up LyX.
 Hope will be better for next 999 users but I don't believe it.

 Against common Scientific-pro based opinions, I think LyX strategy should
 be
 GO TO THE PEOPLE, to students, to humanists, to people who are not
 computer-
 pros which are millions. They still have to learn something aboute code
 etc.
 but the LyX community should ban everything which could stay between them
 and
 LyX and of course between them and LyX information (and is not strictly
 needed). Lists are just one of these little annoying things.[...]


Don't feel offended, but I think LyX was not designed for children. Do not
understand me wrong, but I am using Internet for 13 years and I know that
news groups and lists have veeery looong tradition. Are there was times when
even children uses them. Today we have the era of Web 2.0, but this does not
mean that everything should be available by the the web. Personally forums
are not my favourite way of discussion, they are fine for advetising. Mail
lists are not ideal too, as often I receive lot of infomation I do not need
- but in case of LyX it teach me a lot.

Backing to the children subject, I want to tell you that I was a witness
of specific change in the Internet itself in about 1999. In Poland that time
new service from our national telecom operation become available - it
allows to call to the internet by modem for the price of connection only. It
was a revolution, beacause large number of people get wide access to the
global village, mainly childrens. The level of discussion on medias like
maillists and IRC quickly has gone very low. Today we - all veterans of
Internet in Poland - call these people childrens of neostrada, as they
still represent low level of discussion and culture. Nestrada - for you
information - is the name of another service from national operator sold to
France Telecom based on ADSL... I think this do not need more comment.

I miss that times before commercialized Internet.

-- 
Manveru
jabber: manv...@manveru.pl
gg: 1624001
  http://www.manveru.pl

Re: LyX Forum?

Stefano Franchi fran...@... writes:

 Like Uwe, I am not quite sure I understand what's so difficult about lists. 
That 
 is, unless you are used to reading mail in a browser and never used a mail 
 client.

Of course I use a webclient (M$Hotmail, the worst ever, but who cares?) and 
everything ends up a mess.


 Lists have also many advantages, which Uwe summed up nicely. However, 
 I am also old enough to have used e-mail for years before browsing came into 
 existence, so what Piero is saying may just be a pointer to a generational 
 gap.
 

Good point. A gap. The most experienced (or advanced) Internet users are 
nowadays less than basic-traditional-computer users and only 1 on 100 of them 
used the internet in the mid 90s, where newsgroups and lists were the most 
advancede way to communicate, but this is ancient history. The same with the 
80s: advanced personal computers users and programmers knew nothing about basic 
electricity knoledge, which was the most advanced knoledge for their fathers. 
Who cared once? 
Nowadays the future is the advanced social networking, but the open community 
seems to be far less interested in it than companie$. This is absolutely the 
worst thing of the internet today. Glorious habits should evolve as everything 
else. What I lack most of LyX (and LaTeX)? Web-based environments, web-based 
bibliographies, web-based computing.. ok, we can't have EVERYTHING, but the 
various Google-Whatever are the best creatures of the net and this is the 
future, we all know it.

 The issue though, is that the great support Lyx provides is (mostly) in the 
 hands of a relatively small group of people who very generously share their 
 time and expertise---Uwe himself being perhaps the most active member of this 
 group. What they prefer is the law of lyx-land!

Without all of you I would be almost dead. Thank you with the entire lyxer 
heart.

Re: upload a custom layout

2009/3/29 Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de

 nick schrieb:

  Ok, I think that I can make a Russian translation of LyX's strings.
 But I wonder if I can start from russian ru.po instead of Ukrainian
 uk.po.


 Of course you can also start from ru.po. Use what suits you the most.

 regards Uwe


Nick you can even try to merge uk.po and ru.po to ro.new.po before you start
(you can use TortoiseDiff, KDiff, WinMerge... and plenty others I think),
and then correct Ukrainian to Russian, and then translate rest of strings.

-- 
Manveru
jabber: manv...@manveru.pl
gg: 1624001
  http://www.manveru.pl

Where is the standard installerfür Lyx 1.6.2-1?

2009-03-29 Thread Matthias Schmidt

Hello,

plaese  where  can  I  find  the  standard  installer  für Lyx 1.6.2-1
(LyX-1.6.2-1-Installer.exe, 20  MB).  I tried it with the link in the
lyx-wiki  on http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/Windows. There I get an error
message 550 LyX-1.6.2-1-Installer.exe: No such file or directory.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Matthias Schmidt
mailto:gm_schm...@yahoo.de

Diese Nachricht ist mit Norton Internet Security geprüft




___
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Piero Faustini wrote:

else. What I lack most of LyX (and LaTeX)? Web-based environments, 
web-based bibliographies, web-based computing.. ok, we can't have 
EVERYTHING, but the various Google-Whatever are the best creatures of 
the net and this is the future, we all know it.


Could you be more specific? We have:
* web site
* wiki site
* mailing lists (i.e a forum)

As for LaTeX-wise, there's something that can take wiki pages via LaTeX to 
PDF, so that's basically web based LaTeX computing for you?


I really am curious,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Uwe Stöhr wrote:

(I started supporting LyX with its mailing list btw. and I cannot think 
right now that anything else might be easier. And I'm 29, so not too old 
not to know the possibilities of forums ;-) )


I'm 35, so I don't see the advantages with forums... or lists for that 
matter over news groups ;-) ;-)


Seriously though, why is a forum different from a list?

/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Christian Ridderstr?m wrote:


Seriously though, why is a forum different from a list?


/Christian,

  Two differences, as far as I know:

  1.) Fora are hosted on a web site and mail lists are hosted on a server
that needs no more than a mailing list manager (MLM). The former requires a
GUI while the latter is text based (although subscribers can use a GUI MUA
-- go ahead, say that quickly -- to read the text).

  2.) Fora require subscribers to actively load the apppropriate web page
and pull down the articles/messages of interest to them. A mail list pushes
the messages to each subscriber who is free to read, delete, or otherwise
manage the messages sent.

  Personally, I much prefer mail lists. It is many times easier to check my
MUA and tab through the various mail list folders at my convenience (all
done without removing my hands from the keyboard) than it is to open a new
firefox tab, enter the URL (or select the bookmark using the pointy device),
then scroll through the list on the presented web page.

  Usenet used to be OK. Now, unfortunately, it's jammed with spam and folks
with attitudes. Mail lists tend to be more polite and helpful.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: LyX Forum?

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 04:56:18PM +, Piero Faustini wrote:
 Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@... writes:
  Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the
  emails as described here:
  http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists The whole list is archived at
  various websites.
 
 How many people use mailing lists? How many use forums? Say 1 lister
 every 20 forumers? Say 1 to 10 (and I'm fair)?

Numbers alone do not matter much in such cases. Some things simply
do not scale linearily.

And - I'd expect an average LaTeX user to be able to handle e-mail...

 It's not me who says lists are difficoult, it's people. I never used
 lists before knowing LyX.

Other people used mailing lists before web forums had been in use.

For me, a mailing list (or real news) has two major advantages: I can
search and filter for any criteria I want to, and I can use the text
editor I like. Both is usually not (painlessly) possible with a web
interface. 

 They always had, because
 they are very, VERY simple. Lists are not that simple, comparing to
 forums (unless you care about cookies, which 99% of people don't).

Simple is good, as long as it does the job. But not often for more than that.

 Everything has its thumb up and down. I believe you that with lists
 you can do many things which a forum can't. But that's not the point.

That's exactly the point ;-} 

I can scan a dozen mailing lists easily on a daily base. I would not do
the same for web forums.

 Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages, so they are
 for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess they
 will be ONLY for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it works
 (I spent some days puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to wrong
 addresses till I went to GMANE and used its forum-like interface)

So you found a solution that fits your need. Good.

Andre'

Re: LyX Forum?

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 08:34:14PM +0200, Christian Ridderström wrote:
 [...] Seriously though, why is a forum different from a list?

The problem seems to be that he uses a web interface to read a mails.
Of course, with such a background, a well-organized forum _is_ an
advantage. Like using a bike instead of walking. But then, steam
engines have been invented more than twenty years ago ;-}

Andre'

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread Steve Litt

On Sunday 29 March 2009 09:15:59 am Piero Faustini wrote:
 Hello,
 I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
 I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common
 users (I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates
 in my mailbox).
 A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we
 use a normal forum site?
 There's a LyX forum in LaTeX community but it's not as active as this
 discussion list; anyway I found that, as I did, other users posted
 something for this list in Nabble and then didn't get the answers because
 they didn't know Nabble don't post messages not posted directly there.
 I think current (as past) LyX politic should be GO FOR THE AVERAGE USER, be
 simple and easy. Why LaTeX have a lot of forum sites, while LyX doesn't???
 Lack of information or access to information is the worst (and senseless)
 way to discourage LyX users.
 Thx
 Piero

If this list became forum only, I'd be gone. As a person on 20 mailing lists, 
I like the fact that posts get sent to me. I don't have time to go around 
looking for them.

I tried forums last century and found after a brief period of keeping up, I 
stopped looking for posts as it became too time consuming.

The LyX list can be accessed via gmane.org, so we have the best of both 
worlds. I don't see the advantages of eliminating the mailing list, and once 
again, if it were eliminated, I wouldn't join the forum.

I'm just one guy so it's no big deal, but if several other people also went 
away it wouldn't be good, especially if some of them were people who answered 
questions.

The LyX mailing list's worked well for me since 2001, and a quick gmane search 
shows posts as far back as February 1999 (happy tenth everyone!). My advice 
would be, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Andre Poenitz wrote:


It's not me who says lists are difficoult, it's people. I never used
lists before knowing LyX.



Other people used mailing lists before web forums had been in use.


  First there was ARPANET (text based), then BitNet (text based), then
Usenet (text based); with tools such as Archie (text based) and WAIS (text
based).

  Of course, if one grows up inculcated by Microsoft and accepts that there
way is the Only One True Way, then one has a terribly narrow view of the
computing world.


They always had, because they are very, VERY simple. Lists are not that
simple, comparing to forums (unless you care about cookies, which 99% of
people don't).


  Feh! That's complete nonsense. However, ... if someone finds it very
difficult to look at a list of messages on his/her own machine, while
finding it simple to look at them on someone else's machine via a web
interface I can understand the confusion.


Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages,


  How...exactly?


so they are for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess
they will be ONLY for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it
works (I spent some days puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to
wrong addresses till I went to GMANE and used its forum-like interface)


  Ooh! So because you couldn't figure out how to read and send mail they're
a bad idea. And only PROs (however you define them) are smart enough to
figure them out. Interesting.


So you found a solution that fits your need. Good.


  Yup. And it's a GUI front end to the mail list.

  I've never understood why people want pictures to read text. The last time
I saw a book with text in different colors and typefaces, and illustrated
with pictures was when I read childrens' books to my young son. Books for
adults (well, most adults who don't read comic books, anyway) don't have all
the enhancements of a GUI; neither to newspapers.

Rich

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread rgheck


Rich Shepard wrote:
Books for adults (well, most adults who don't read comic books, 
anyway) don't have all the enhancements of a GUI; neither do newspapers.


Which, I'm sad to say, may explain why newspapers all around the US are 
shutting their doors. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the several dozen 
people who still read a newspaper. But perhaps we have learned something.


rh

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread john

Rich Shepard wrote:
   Usenet used to be OK. Now, unfortunately, it's jammed with spam and
 folks
 with attitudes. Mail lists tend to be more polite and helpful.
Amen to that.
And the LyX list is extraordinarily polite, helpful, relevant, and
knowledgable.

I have used several lists related to Linux and opensource development
projects.
Unfortunately some are afflicted with abusive, ignorant, politically or
doctrinally motivated people grinding their sectarian axes inappropriately.
The LyX list, in contrast, is a haven of respectful and capable people.
The LyX list has never failed me in my attempts to find answers to
questions about the arcana of LyX.

 Rich

Re: Where is the standard installerfür Lyx 1.6.2-1?


Matthias Schmidt schrieb:


plaese  where  can  I  find  the  standard  installer  für Lyx 1.6.2-1
(LyX-1.6.2-1-Installer.exe, 20  MB). 


Have a look at ftp.lyx.org alternatively you can use the alternative Windows installer. Both 
installers set up LyX as best as possible.


regards Uwe

Re: LyX Forum?



Hello once again.

I can't reply to all.
I can read with my eyes not even one of you agreed with any of my arguments 
(not speaking of the thesis). I only want to point out that many counter-
arguments where correct but quite off-topic, many where correct but weak, the 
most strong ones were based on misundestanding of what I wanted to express (my 
bad english being the 1st responsible, of course), the most deep were just 
opinions, while I found most interesting what Stefano said (sorry, he's the 
only fellow Italian) and when it pointed out the gap feeling.
I will not speak of FORA (I have no doubt that Rich after hearing a female 
choir performance always shout loud the italian word Brave! rather than 
Bravi, Brava or Bravo ;) ) cause this transcend. I will not get 
philosophical, or I'll try.
I'll reply to Manveru.

 Don't feel offended, but I think LyX was not designed for children. Do not
 understand me wrong, but I am using Internet for 13 years and I know that
 news groups and lists have veeery looong tradition. Are there was times when
 even children uses them. Today we have the era of Web 2.0, but this does not
 mean that everything should be available by the the web. Personally forums
 are not my favourite way of discussion, they are fine for advetising. Mail
 lists are not ideal too, as often I receive lot of infomation I do not need
 - but in case of LyX it teach me a lot.

Of course about children, I was pointing out that forums are VERY simple. And 
it's exactly what I was trying to explain: the list concept is VERY old 
(whatever this means). Yes, also e-mail is old, and almost every single human 
being uses it, but my 19-years old sister last week told me she doesn't care 
about e-mail since he has her favourite Web 2.0 communication basis: I find it 
terrible, but it is 2009 REALITY. (and BTW, speaking of intelligence/culture, I 
think my sister stays in the upper 5% of her age).


 
 Backing to the children subject, I want to tell you that I was a witness
 of specific change in the Internet itself in about 1999. In Poland that time
 new service from our national telecom operation become available - it
 allows to call to the internet by modem for the price of connection only. It
 was a revolution, beacause large number of people get wide access to the
 global village, mainly childrens. The level of discussion on medias like
 maillists and IRC quickly has gone very low. Today we - all veterans of
 Internet in Poland - call these people childrens of neostrada, as they
 still represent low level of discussion and culture. Nestrada - for you
 information - is the name of another service from national operator sold to
 France Telecom based on ADSL... I think this do not need more comment.
 


As a poor Włoski I don't know everything about this little people making noise 
in the internet, which is a serious thing. But perhaps you agree with this, 
although is not about the internet:

“Elegance, purity, measure, which were the principles of our art, had gradually 
surrended to the new style, simple and pretentious, adopted by this times of 
superficial talent. Brains that, for education and habits, can't think anything 
other than dresses, fashion, gossip, novel reading and moral corruption, have a 
hard time to feel more elaborate and less nervous pleasure of science and art.”

Don't feel offended, but I don't agree with this, and I'll explain why.
In my bare 33 years of age, I learned that I can learn from the poor, the 
uncultured, the younger. At least, the smallest pieces of great wisdom are to 
be found in the mechanized habits of the million. To live in the mountain is 
not to live. The community should spread to as many people as possible, 
choosing the most popular, the easiest. Being aware of the gap with the younger 
and trying to understand him is the only way not to grow too old too soon. 
Saying that  neostrada children destroyed everything worth of the internet is 
perhaps being completely blind in front of the great revolutions the internet 
(or whatever its name will be) shows us, and is building thanks to THAT 
uncultured young boy. This revolution just started, and I can't say where it 
will go.

 I miss that times before commercialized Internet.

How many of our parents miss the time when Internet didn't exist?
How many of our grandfathers missed the time before computers and electronics?
How many of our ancestors missed the time before the press, or before writing? 
And, of course, how many of our older brothers miss the time when LaTeX was 
just plain LaTeX without WYSIWYG crap?

I can't use mailing lists but I believe they are really smart. The last time I 
installed Thunderbird I think it was beta, but I was already sure I would have 
never and never save a single mail in my PCs: the future was the WEB and now 
it's the present, and I stay with the present, if I can't with the future. Full 
stop.
I only can tell you that you should keep your eyes open: faster, wider

Re: new paragraph after enum or list environment

2009-03-29 Thread James C. Sutherland



On Mar 27, 2009, at 4:43 PM, rgheck wrote:


James C. Sutherland wrote:
Does anyone know how to tell LyX to make a new paragraph after a  
list? For example, if I have new paragraphs indented, then one  
immediately following an enum or list will not be indented. How to  
I change that?



Have you tried to put the Separator environment in between?

That does the trick - I was not aware of the separator environment!   
Thanks!

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread Doug Laidlaw

On Monday 30 March 2009 12:15:59 am Piero Faustini wrote:
 Hello,
 I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
 I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common
 users (I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates
 in my mailbox).
 A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we
 use a normal forum site?
 There's a LyX forum in LaTeX community but it's not as active as this
 discussion list; anyway I found that, as I did, other users posted
 something for this list in Nabble and then didn't get the answers because
 they didn't know Nabble don't post messages not posted directly there.
 I think current (as past) LyX politic should be GO FOR THE AVERAGE USER, be
 simple and easy. Why LaTeX have a lot of forum sites, while LyX doesn't???
 Lack of information or access to information is the worst (and senseless)
 way to discourage LyX users.
 Thx
 Piero

I prefere a mailing list.  Actually, I prefer a newsgroup, with a limited 
number of posts on my box, but GMANE insists that I use my real email 
address.  It is good protection, but means that my email address would become 
visible through Usenet on other groups.  That is why I switched to a mailing 
list.  Like Steve Litt, I want posts sent to me.

At the same time, I have few problems so far, and any that I have are probably 
somewhere in the archives.  I only browse what comes in.  I would be O.K. 
with a forum.

Just my vote.

Doug.

Re: How to use German capital sharp s (U+1E9E)?

2009-03-29 Thread Dominik Waßenhoven

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

 Dominik Waßenhoven wrote:
 The Linux Libertine font has a capital sharp s. See
 http://linuxlibertine.sourceforge.net/
 
 I see. And is there a corresponding LaTeX macro?

libertine.sty comes with several options, including 'ss' for not using
the capital sharp s. Besides that, there is a macro (\useTextGlyph) to
use every character that's in the font.

Regards,
Dominik.-

Re: upload a custom layout

2009-03-29 Thread nick


Ok, I think that I can make a Russian translation of LyX's strings.
But I wonder if I can start from russian ru.po instead of Ukrainian 
uk.po.

It seems to me that it already has many translated strings, so I could
just translate fuzzy/untranslated strings in ru.po. (And of course I can
take some similar words from uk.po because Ukrainian and Russian 
indeed have many words in common)


With best regards,
Nick

Uwe Stöhr wrote:

nckg schrieb:


I've made a LyX layout which customizes Theorems (AMS) module the
following way:
1) Titles of theorems are translated to Russian language


Translating stings is automatically done by LyX. The problem is that 
we don't have actually a Russian translation of LyX's strings:

http://www.lyx.org/I18n
But as you can see, we have an almost complete translation to 
Ukrainian. I guess you can take the Ukrainian translation and create a 
Russian one out of it because Ukrainian and Russian have many words in 
common, don't they?

Translating LyX is relatively easy:

- download the file uk.po from here:
  
http://www.lyx.org/trac/browser/lyx-devel/branches/BRANCH_1_6_X/po/uk.po

- rename it to ru.po and open it with the program poedit:
  http://www.poedit.net/
- translate it

A more detailed description is given here:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/browser/lyx-devel/branches/BRANCH_1_6_X/README.localization 



You would help LyX a lot by translating its strings. When you are 
unsure or have questions, please ask on the lyx-docs and/or the 
lyx-devel mailing list and we'll help you.


2) Theorems, Definitions and so on are numbered separately, and each 
type
of these environments is numbered consecutively throughout the 
document...


For the other cases Richard heck knows more than me - I CCed him.

regards Uwe

Re: rotating package and float sideways tables

2009-03-29 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
 Robin already responded, and promised to put a new version on CTAN this
 weekend:

 http://groups.google.de/group/comp.text.tex/browse_thread/thread/b294c3790b
d49a92

 It seems that adding \RequirePackage{color} is a workaround for the time
 being (I haven't checked that).

FYI a new version has been uploaded to CTAN. It should be part of the TeXLive 
and MikTeX updates shortly.

Jürgen

LyX Forum?

Hello, 
I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common users 
(I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates in my 
mailbox).
A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we use 
a normal forum site?
There's a LyX forum in LaTeX community but it's not as active as this 
discussion list; anyway I found that, as I did, other users posted something 
for this list in Nabble and then didn't get the answers because they didn't 
know Nabble don't post messages not posted directly there.
I think current (as past) LyX politic should be GO FOR THE AVERAGE USER, be 
simple and easy. Why LaTeX have a lot of forum sites, while LyX doesn't???
Lack of information or access to information is the worst (and senseless) way 
to discourage LyX users.
Thx
Piero

Re: LyX Forum?

Piero Faustini schrieb:

I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common users

Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the emails as
described here:
http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists
The whole list is archived at various websites.

A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we use
a normal forum site?

regards Uwe

Re: upload a custom layout


nick schrieb:


Ok, I think that I can make a Russian translation of LyX's strings.
But I wonder if I can start from russian ru.po instead of Ukrainian 
uk.po.


Of course you can also start from ru.po. Use what suits you the most.

regards Uwe

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Piero Faustini wrote:


I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common users
(I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates in my
mailbox).


You can disable the daily updates to your mailbox and exclusively use 
GMANE.


Oh, I should probably mention that I'm accessing this list pureley as a 
news group, which I guess you might consider a forum although I do it with 
a separate news client.


cheers,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: LyX Forum?

Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@... writes:

 Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the emails as 
described here:
 http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists
 The whole list is archived at various websites.
 

How many people use mailing lists? How many use forums? Say 1 lister every 20 
forumers? Say 1 to 10 (and I'm fair)? It's not me who says lists are 
difficoult, it's people. I never used lists before knowing LyX.  

 I don't see an advantage. At forums I always have to log in before I can post 
and I have to open the 
 webpage to reply. That means I every time have to enable cookies in my 
browser, then enter my user 
 name and password and then write afterwards I have to delete my browser 
history and disable cookies. 
 With a mailing list I only have to subscribe once and get the emails whenever 
I want to. I can also 
 store important mails at my PC, forward messages, compose messages out of 
several other ones, CC and 
 BCC people,  All this is not possible with a forum.

It's 10 years since last time I disabled cookies. I'm a Windows (95% of time) 
integrate internet user as millions more. I use cookies in my Xandros OS too. 
Integrate doesn't mean computer-pro. Sometimes it's opposite to pro.
Children use forums. They always had, because they are very, VERY simple. Lists 
are not that simple, comparing to forums (unless you care about cookies, which 
99% of people don't). Everything has its thumb up and down. I believe you that 
with lists you can do many things which a forum can't. But that's not the 
point. Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages, so they are 
for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess they will be ONLY 
for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it works (I spent some days 
puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to wrong addresses till I went to 
GMANE and used its forum-like interface)


 I think that LyX is one of the best documented projects and our user support 
is outstanding. When 
 you have a problem with LyX you'll usually get a solution within a day or 
two. So I'm interested why 
 you think LyX lacks information.

100% agree with you. I didn't want to say LyX lacks information. LyX 
information is GREAT and of 1st quality and fast and reliable and sincere. Just 
that if you can't have access to this information, it's value is ZERO, no 
matter why you didn't have access.
Let's say my name is Joe Average and I'm one of those 1000 potential LyX users 
who weekly crash in site. I use Windows and used MS Access at basic level once. 
I know something about html. I'm smart so I use OOo Writer with styles. I use 
the internet everyday. FULL STOP.
I found Lyx.org just because I read something, in a forum ;) of students. I try 
to use it and I get it working but that very day I get stuck trying to use some 
pics. Guide says I have to learn how to install it properly, and the basics of 
LaTeX. That's fair. Then I have to tweak something in the preamble. Ok. I have 
to change completely my Word-formatted mind. HARD, BUT I CAN. I just need some 
help, and LaTeX forums are not for LyXers and they're always with all that \$%. 
Then, they say me that I have to learn how to use a list (something I heard of 
at the beginning of the internet). I try once, twice. I give up lists. I give 
up LyX.
Hope will be better for next 999 users but I don't believe it.

Against common Scientific-pro based opinions, I think LyX strategy should be 
GO TO THE PEOPLE, to students, to humanists, to people who are not computer-
pros which are millions. They still have to learn something aboute code etc. 
but the LyX community should ban everything which could stay between them and 
LyX and of course between them and LyX information (and is not strictly 
needed). Lists are just one of these little annoying things. I didn't say we 
have to use Facebook or a social site or something like that. Just a simple, 
plain forum. In a modern forum you can use a lot of features, but you need 
cookies, of course ;) .
If the entire discussion moved there, everything would be better for new users.

Well this is my idea.
thanks for your opinion
Piero

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread Stefano Franchi

On Sunday 29 March 2009 11:56:18 Piero Faustini wrote:
 Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@... writes:
  Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the emails
  as

 described here:
  http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists
  The whole list is archived at various websites.

 How many people use mailing lists? How many use forums? Say 1 lister every
 20 forumers? Say 1 to 10 (and I'm fair)? It's not me who says lists are
 difficoult, it's people. I never used lists before knowing LyX.

  I don't see an advantage. At forums I always have to log in before I can
  post

 and I have to open the

  webpage to reply. That means I every time have to enable cookies in my

 browser, then enter my user

  name and password and then write afterwards I have to delete my browser

 history and disable cookies.

  With a mailing list I only have to subscribe once and get the emails
  whenever

 I want to. I can also

  store important mails at my PC, forward messages, compose messages out of

 several other ones, CC and

  BCC people,  All this is not possible with a forum.

 It's 10 years since last time I disabled cookies. I'm a Windows (95% of
 time) integrate internet user as millions more. I use cookies in my
 Xandros OS too. Integrate doesn't mean computer-pro. Sometimes it's
 opposite to pro. Children use forums. They always had, because they are
 very, VERY simple. Lists are not that simple, comparing to forums (unless
 you care about cookies, which 99% of people don't). Everything has its
 thumb up and down. I believe you that with lists you can do many things
 which a forum can't. But that's not the point. Lists are difficoult to use
 comparing to their advantages, so they are for PRO users, almost always
 have been, and in future I guess they will be ONLY for pro. Their worst
 difficoulty is to LEARN how it works (I spent some days puzzling and
 puzzling and sending messages to wrong addresses till I went to GMANE and
 used its forum-like interface)

  I think that LyX is one of the best documented projects and our user
  support

 is outstanding. When

  you have a problem with LyX you'll usually get a solution within a day or

 two. So I'm interested why

  you think LyX lacks information.

 100% agree with you. I didn't want to say LyX lacks information. LyX
 information is GREAT and of 1st quality and fast and reliable and sincere.
 Just that if you can't have access to this information, it's value is ZERO,
 no matter why you didn't have access.
 Let's say my name is Joe Average and I'm one of those 1000 potential LyX
 users who weekly crash in site. I use Windows and used MS Access at basic
 level once. I know something about html. I'm smart so I use OOo Writer with
 styles. I use the internet everyday. FULL STOP.
 I found Lyx.org just because I read something, in a forum ;) of students. I
 try to use it and I get it working but that very day I get stuck trying to
 use some pics. Guide says I have to learn how to install it properly, and
 the basics of LaTeX. That's fair. Then I have to tweak something in the
 preamble. Ok. I have to change completely my Word-formatted mind. HARD, BUT
 I CAN. I just need some help, and LaTeX forums are not for LyXers and
 they're always with all that \$%. Then, they say me that I have to learn
 how to use a list (something I heard of at the beginning of the internet).
 I try once, twice. I give up lists. I give up LyX.
 Hope will be better for next 999 users but I don't believe it.

 Against common Scientific-pro based opinions, I think LyX strategy should
 be GO TO THE PEOPLE, to students, to humanists, to people who are not
 computer- pros which are millions. They still have to learn something
 aboute code etc. but the LyX community should ban everything which could
 stay between them and LyX and of course between them and LyX information
 (and is not strictly needed). Lists are just one of these little annoying
 things. I didn't say we have to use Facebook or a social site or something
 like that. Just a simple, plain forum. In a modern forum you can use a lot
 of features, but you need cookies, of course ;) .
 If the entire discussion moved there, everything would be better for new
 users.

 Well this is my idea.
 thanks for your opinion
 Piero

Like Uwe, I am not quite sure I understand what's so difficult about lists. 
That 
is, unless you are used to reading mail in a browser and never used a mail 
client. Lists have also many advantages, which Uwe summed up nicely. However, 
I am also old enough to have used e-mail for years before browsing came into 
existence, so what Piero is saying may just be a pointer to a generational 
gap.

The issue though, is that the great support Lyx provides is (mostly) in the 
hands of a relatively small group of people who very generously share their 
time and expertise---Uwe himself being perhaps the most active member of this 
group. What they prefer is the law of lyx-land!

Cheers,

S.

Re: LyX Forum?


Stefano Franchi schrieb:

The issue though, is that the great support Lyx provides is (mostly) in the 
hands of a relatively small group of people who very generously share their 
time and expertise---Uwe himself being perhaps the most active member of this 
group. What they prefer is the law of lyx-land!


What I prefer is hopefully never a law! LyX used mailing lists for years long 
before I joined LyX.
(I started supporting LyX with its mailing list btw. and I cannot think right now that anything else 
might be easier. And I'm 29, so not too old not to know the possibilities of forums ;-) )


regards Uwe

Re: LyX Forum?

2009/3/29 Piero Faustini pierofaust...@hotmail.com

 [...]
 Integrate doesn't mean computer-pro. Sometimes it's opposite to pro.
 Children use forums. They always had, because they are very, VERY simple.
 Lists
 are not that simple, comparing to forums (unless you care about cookies,
 which
 99% of people don't). Everything has its thumb up and down. I believe you
 that
 with lists you can do many things which a forum can't. But that's not the
 point. Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages, so they
 are
 for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess they will be
 ONLY
 for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it works (I spent some
 days
 puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to wrong addresses till I went
 to
 GMANE and used its forum-like interface)

 [...]
 I found Lyx.org just because I read something, in a forum ;) of students. I
 try
 to use it and I get it working but that very day I get stuck trying to use
 some
 pics. Guide says I have to learn how to install it properly, and the basics
 of
 LaTeX. That's fair. Then I have to tweak something in the preamble. Ok. I
 have
 to change completely my Word-formatted mind. HARD, BUT I CAN. I just need
 some
 help, and LaTeX forums are not for LyXers and they're always with all that
 \$%.
 Then, they say me that I have to learn how to use a list (something I heard
 of
 at the beginning of the internet). I try once, twice. I give up lists. I
 give
 up LyX.
 Hope will be better for next 999 users but I don't believe it.

 Against common Scientific-pro based opinions, I think LyX strategy should
 be
 GO TO THE PEOPLE, to students, to humanists, to people who are not
 computer-
 pros which are millions. They still have to learn something aboute code
 etc.
 but the LyX community should ban everything which could stay between them
 and
 LyX and of course between them and LyX information (and is not strictly
 needed). Lists are just one of these little annoying things.[...]


Don't feel offended, but I think LyX was not designed for children. Do not
understand me wrong, but I am using Internet for 13 years and I know that
news groups and lists have veeery looong tradition. Are there was times when
even children uses them. Today we have the era of Web 2.0, but this does not
mean that everything should be available by the the web. Personally forums
are not my favourite way of discussion, they are fine for advetising. Mail
lists are not ideal too, as often I receive lot of infomation I do not need
- but in case of LyX it teach me a lot.

Backing to the children subject, I want to tell you that I was a witness
of specific change in the Internet itself in about 1999. In Poland that time
new service from our national telecom operation become available - it
allows to call to the internet by modem for the price of connection only. It
was a revolution, beacause large number of people get wide access to the
global village, mainly childrens. The level of discussion on medias like
maillists and IRC quickly has gone very low. Today we - all veterans of
Internet in Poland - call these people childrens of neostrada, as they
still represent low level of discussion and culture. Nestrada - for you
information - is the name of another service from national operator sold to
France Telecom based on ADSL... I think this do not need more comment.

I miss that times before commercialized Internet.

-- 
Manveru
jabber: manv...@manveru.pl
gg: 1624001
  http://www.manveru.pl

Re: LyX Forum?

Stefano Franchi fran...@... writes:

 Like Uwe, I am not quite sure I understand what's so difficult about lists. 
That 
 is, unless you are used to reading mail in a browser and never used a mail 
 client.

Of course I use a webclient (M$Hotmail, the worst ever, but who cares?) and 
everything ends up a mess.


 Lists have also many advantages, which Uwe summed up nicely. However, 
 I am also old enough to have used e-mail for years before browsing came into 
 existence, so what Piero is saying may just be a pointer to a generational 
 gap.
 

Good point. A gap. The most experienced (or advanced) Internet users are 
nowadays less than basic-traditional-computer users and only 1 on 100 of them 
used the internet in the mid 90s, where newsgroups and lists were the most 
advancede way to communicate, but this is ancient history. The same with the 
80s: advanced personal computers users and programmers knew nothing about basic 
electricity knoledge, which was the most advanced knoledge for their fathers. 
Who cared once? 
Nowadays the future is the advanced social networking, but the open community 
seems to be far less interested in it than companie$. This is absolutely the 
worst thing of the internet today. Glorious habits should evolve as everything 
else. What I lack most of LyX (and LaTeX)? Web-based environments, web-based 
bibliographies, web-based computing.. ok, we can't have EVERYTHING, but the 
various Google-Whatever are the best creatures of the net and this is the 
future, we all know it.

 The issue though, is that the great support Lyx provides is (mostly) in the 
 hands of a relatively small group of people who very generously share their 
 time and expertise---Uwe himself being perhaps the most active member of this 
 group. What they prefer is the law of lyx-land!

Without all of you I would be almost dead. Thank you with the entire lyxer 
heart.

Re: upload a custom layout

2009/3/29 Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@web.de

 nick schrieb:

  Ok, I think that I can make a Russian translation of LyX's strings.
 But I wonder if I can start from russian ru.po instead of Ukrainian
 uk.po.


 Of course you can also start from ru.po. Use what suits you the most.

 regards Uwe


Nick you can even try to merge uk.po and ru.po to ro.new.po before you start
(you can use TortoiseDiff, KDiff, WinMerge... and plenty others I think),
and then correct Ukrainian to Russian, and then translate rest of strings.

-- 
Manveru
jabber: manv...@manveru.pl
gg: 1624001
  http://www.manveru.pl

Where is the standard installerfür Lyx 1.6.2-1?

2009-03-29 Thread Matthias Schmidt

Hello,

plaese  where  can  I  find  the  standard  installer  für Lyx 1.6.2-1
(LyX-1.6.2-1-Installer.exe, 20  MB).  I tried it with the link in the
lyx-wiki  on http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/Windows. There I get an error
message 550 LyX-1.6.2-1-Installer.exe: No such file or directory.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Matthias Schmidt
mailto:gm_schm...@yahoo.de

Diese Nachricht ist mit Norton Internet Security geprüft




___
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Piero Faustini wrote:

else. What I lack most of LyX (and LaTeX)? Web-based environments, 
web-based bibliographies, web-based computing.. ok, we can't have 
EVERYTHING, but the various Google-Whatever are the best creatures of 
the net and this is the future, we all know it.


Could you be more specific? We have:
* web site
* wiki site
* mailing lists (i.e a forum)

As for LaTeX-wise, there's something that can take wiki pages via LaTeX to 
PDF, so that's basically web based LaTeX computing for you?


I really am curious,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Uwe Stöhr wrote:

(I started supporting LyX with its mailing list btw. and I cannot think 
right now that anything else might be easier. And I'm 29, so not too old 
not to know the possibilities of forums ;-) )


I'm 35, so I don't see the advantages with forums... or lists for that 
matter over news groups ;-) ;-)


Seriously though, why is a forum different from a list?

/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Christian Ridderstr?m wrote:


Seriously though, why is a forum different from a list?


/Christian,

  Two differences, as far as I know:

  1.) Fora are hosted on a web site and mail lists are hosted on a server
that needs no more than a mailing list manager (MLM). The former requires a
GUI while the latter is text based (although subscribers can use a GUI MUA
-- go ahead, say that quickly -- to read the text).

  2.) Fora require subscribers to actively load the apppropriate web page
and pull down the articles/messages of interest to them. A mail list pushes
the messages to each subscriber who is free to read, delete, or otherwise
manage the messages sent.

  Personally, I much prefer mail lists. It is many times easier to check my
MUA and tab through the various mail list folders at my convenience (all
done without removing my hands from the keyboard) than it is to open a new
firefox tab, enter the URL (or select the bookmark using the pointy device),
then scroll through the list on the presented web page.

  Usenet used to be OK. Now, unfortunately, it's jammed with spam and folks
with attitudes. Mail lists tend to be more polite and helpful.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: LyX Forum?

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 04:56:18PM +, Piero Faustini wrote:
 Uwe Stöhr uwesto...@... writes:
  Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the
  emails as described here:
  http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists The whole list is archived at
  various websites.
 
 How many people use mailing lists? How many use forums? Say 1 lister
 every 20 forumers? Say 1 to 10 (and I'm fair)?

Numbers alone do not matter much in such cases. Some things simply
do not scale linearily.

And - I'd expect an average LaTeX user to be able to handle e-mail...

 It's not me who says lists are difficoult, it's people. I never used
 lists before knowing LyX.

Other people used mailing lists before web forums had been in use.

For me, a mailing list (or real news) has two major advantages: I can
search and filter for any criteria I want to, and I can use the text
editor I like. Both is usually not (painlessly) possible with a web
interface. 

 They always had, because
 they are very, VERY simple. Lists are not that simple, comparing to
 forums (unless you care about cookies, which 99% of people don't).

Simple is good, as long as it does the job. But not often for more than that.

 Everything has its thumb up and down. I believe you that with lists
 you can do many things which a forum can't. But that's not the point.

That's exactly the point ;-} 

I can scan a dozen mailing lists easily on a daily base. I would not do
the same for web forums.

 Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages, so they are
 for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess they
 will be ONLY for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it works
 (I spent some days puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to wrong
 addresses till I went to GMANE and used its forum-like interface)

So you found a solution that fits your need. Good.

Andre'

Re: LyX Forum?

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 08:34:14PM +0200, Christian Ridderström wrote:
 [...] Seriously though, why is a forum different from a list?

The problem seems to be that he uses a web interface to read a mails.
Of course, with such a background, a well-organized forum _is_ an
advantage. Like using a bike instead of walking. But then, steam
engines have been invented more than twenty years ago ;-}

Andre'

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread Steve Litt

On Sunday 29 March 2009 09:15:59 am Piero Faustini wrote:
 Hello,
 I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
 I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common
 users (I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates
 in my mailbox).
 A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we
 use a normal forum site?
 There's a LyX forum in LaTeX community but it's not as active as this
 discussion list; anyway I found that, as I did, other users posted
 something for this list in Nabble and then didn't get the answers because
 they didn't know Nabble don't post messages not posted directly there.
 I think current (as past) LyX politic should be GO FOR THE AVERAGE USER, be
 simple and easy. Why LaTeX have a lot of forum sites, while LyX doesn't???
 Lack of information or access to information is the worst (and senseless)
 way to discourage LyX users.
 Thx
 Piero

If this list became forum only, I'd be gone. As a person on 20 mailing lists, 
I like the fact that posts get sent to me. I don't have time to go around 
looking for them.

I tried forums last century and found after a brief period of keeping up, I 
stopped looking for posts as it became too time consuming.

The LyX list can be accessed via gmane.org, so we have the best of both 
worlds. I don't see the advantages of eliminating the mailing list, and once 
again, if it were eliminated, I wouldn't join the forum.

I'm just one guy so it's no big deal, but if several other people also went 
away it wouldn't be good, especially if some of them were people who answered 
questions.

The LyX mailing list's worked well for me since 2001, and a quick gmane search 
shows posts as far back as February 1999 (happy tenth everyone!). My advice 
would be, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Andre Poenitz wrote:


It's not me who says lists are difficoult, it's people. I never used
lists before knowing LyX.



Other people used mailing lists before web forums had been in use.


  First there was ARPANET (text based), then BitNet (text based), then
Usenet (text based); with tools such as Archie (text based) and WAIS (text
based).

  Of course, if one grows up inculcated by Microsoft and accepts that there
way is the Only One True Way, then one has a terribly narrow view of the
computing world.


They always had, because they are very, VERY simple. Lists are not that
simple, comparing to forums (unless you care about cookies, which 99% of
people don't).


  Feh! That's complete nonsense. However, ... if someone finds it very
difficult to look at a list of messages on his/her own machine, while
finding it simple to look at them on someone else's machine via a web
interface I can understand the confusion.


Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages,


  How...exactly?


so they are for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess
they will be ONLY for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it
works (I spent some days puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to
wrong addresses till I went to GMANE and used its forum-like interface)


  Ooh! So because you couldn't figure out how to read and send mail they're
a bad idea. And only PROs (however you define them) are smart enough to
figure them out. Interesting.


So you found a solution that fits your need. Good.


  Yup. And it's a GUI front end to the mail list.

  I've never understood why people want pictures to read text. The last time
I saw a book with text in different colors and typefaces, and illustrated
with pictures was when I read childrens' books to my young son. Books for
adults (well, most adults who don't read comic books, anyway) don't have all
the enhancements of a GUI; neither to newspapers.

Rich

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread rgheck


Rich Shepard wrote:
Books for adults (well, most adults who don't read comic books, 
anyway) don't have all the enhancements of a GUI; neither do newspapers.


Which, I'm sad to say, may explain why newspapers all around the US are 
shutting their doors. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the several dozen 
people who still read a newspaper. But perhaps we have learned something.


rh

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread john

Rich Shepard wrote:
   Usenet used to be OK. Now, unfortunately, it's jammed with spam and
 folks
 with attitudes. Mail lists tend to be more polite and helpful.
Amen to that.
And the LyX list is extraordinarily polite, helpful, relevant, and
knowledgable.

I have used several lists related to Linux and opensource development
projects.
Unfortunately some are afflicted with abusive, ignorant, politically or
doctrinally motivated people grinding their sectarian axes inappropriately.
The LyX list, in contrast, is a haven of respectful and capable people.
The LyX list has never failed me in my attempts to find answers to
questions about the arcana of LyX.

 Rich

Re: Where is the standard installerfür Lyx 1.6.2-1?


Matthias Schmidt schrieb:


plaese  where  can  I  find  the  standard  installer  für Lyx 1.6.2-1
(LyX-1.6.2-1-Installer.exe, 20  MB). 


Have a look at ftp.lyx.org alternatively you can use the alternative Windows installer. Both 
installers set up LyX as best as possible.


regards Uwe

Re: LyX Forum?



Hello once again.

I can't reply to all.
I can read with my eyes not even one of you agreed with any of my arguments 
(not speaking of the thesis). I only want to point out that many counter-
arguments where correct but quite off-topic, many where correct but weak, the 
most strong ones were based on misundestanding of what I wanted to express (my 
bad english being the 1st responsible, of course), the most deep were just 
opinions, while I found most interesting what Stefano said (sorry, he's the 
only fellow Italian) and when it pointed out the gap feeling.
I will not speak of FORA (I have no doubt that Rich after hearing a female 
choir performance always shout loud the italian word Brave! rather than 
Bravi, Brava or Bravo ;) ) cause this transcend. I will not get 
philosophical, or I'll try.
I'll reply to Manveru.

 Don't feel offended, but I think LyX was not designed for children. Do not
 understand me wrong, but I am using Internet for 13 years and I know that
 news groups and lists have veeery looong tradition. Are there was times when
 even children uses them. Today we have the era of Web 2.0, but this does not
 mean that everything should be available by the the web. Personally forums
 are not my favourite way of discussion, they are fine for advetising. Mail
 lists are not ideal too, as often I receive lot of infomation I do not need
 - but in case of LyX it teach me a lot.

Of course about children, I was pointing out that forums are VERY simple. And 
it's exactly what I was trying to explain: the list concept is VERY old 
(whatever this means). Yes, also e-mail is old, and almost every single human 
being uses it, but my 19-years old sister last week told me she doesn't care 
about e-mail since he has her favourite Web 2.0 communication basis: I find it 
terrible, but it is 2009 REALITY. (and BTW, speaking of intelligence/culture, I 
think my sister stays in the upper 5% of her age).


 
 Backing to the children subject, I want to tell you that I was a witness
 of specific change in the Internet itself in about 1999. In Poland that time
 new service from our national telecom operation become available - it
 allows to call to the internet by modem for the price of connection only. It
 was a revolution, beacause large number of people get wide access to the
 global village, mainly childrens. The level of discussion on medias like
 maillists and IRC quickly has gone very low. Today we - all veterans of
 Internet in Poland - call these people childrens of neostrada, as they
 still represent low level of discussion and culture. Nestrada - for you
 information - is the name of another service from national operator sold to
 France Telecom based on ADSL... I think this do not need more comment.
 


As a poor Włoski I don't know everything about this little people making noise 
in the internet, which is a serious thing. But perhaps you agree with this, 
although is not about the internet:

“Elegance, purity, measure, which were the principles of our art, had gradually 
surrended to the new style, simple and pretentious, adopted by this times of 
superficial talent. Brains that, for education and habits, can't think anything 
other than dresses, fashion, gossip, novel reading and moral corruption, have a 
hard time to feel more elaborate and less nervous pleasure of science and art.”

Don't feel offended, but I don't agree with this, and I'll explain why.
In my bare 33 years of age, I learned that I can learn from the poor, the 
uncultured, the younger. At least, the smallest pieces of great wisdom are to 
be found in the mechanized habits of the million. To live in the mountain is 
not to live. The community should spread to as many people as possible, 
choosing the most popular, the easiest. Being aware of the gap with the younger 
and trying to understand him is the only way not to grow too old too soon. 
Saying that  neostrada children destroyed everything worth of the internet is 
perhaps being completely blind in front of the great revolutions the internet 
(or whatever its name will be) shows us, and is building thanks to THAT 
uncultured young boy. This revolution just started, and I can't say where it 
will go.

 I miss that times before commercialized Internet.

How many of our parents miss the time when Internet didn't exist?
How many of our grandfathers missed the time before computers and electronics?
How many of our ancestors missed the time before the press, or before writing? 
And, of course, how many of our older brothers miss the time when LaTeX was 
just plain LaTeX without WYSIWYG crap?

I can't use mailing lists but I believe they are really smart. The last time I 
installed Thunderbird I think it was beta, but I was already sure I would have 
never and never save a single mail in my PCs: the future was the WEB and now 
it's the present, and I stay with the present, if I can't with the future. Full 
stop.
I only can tell you that you should keep your eyes open: faster, wider

Re: new paragraph after enum or list environment

2009-03-29 Thread James C. Sutherland



On Mar 27, 2009, at 4:43 PM, rgheck wrote:


James C. Sutherland wrote:
Does anyone know how to tell LyX to make a new paragraph after a  
list? For example, if I have new paragraphs indented, then one  
immediately following an enum or list will not be indented. How to  
I change that?



Have you tried to put the Separator environment in between?

That does the trick - I was not aware of the separator environment!   
Thanks!

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread Doug Laidlaw

On Monday 30 March 2009 12:15:59 am Piero Faustini wrote:
 Hello,
 I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
 I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common
 users (I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates
 in my mailbox).
 A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we
 use a normal forum site?
 There's a LyX forum in LaTeX community but it's not as active as this
 discussion list; anyway I found that, as I did, other users posted
 something for this list in Nabble and then didn't get the answers because
 they didn't know Nabble don't post messages not posted directly there.
 I think current (as past) LyX politic should be GO FOR THE AVERAGE USER, be
 simple and easy. Why LaTeX have a lot of forum sites, while LyX doesn't???
 Lack of information or access to information is the worst (and senseless)
 way to discourage LyX users.
 Thx
 Piero

I prefere a mailing list.  Actually, I prefer a newsgroup, with a limited 
number of posts on my box, but GMANE insists that I use my real email 
address.  It is good protection, but means that my email address would become 
visible through Usenet on other groups.  That is why I switched to a mailing 
list.  Like Steve Litt, I want posts sent to me.

At the same time, I have few problems so far, and any that I have are probably 
somewhere in the archives.  I only browse what comes in.  I would be O.K. 
with a forum.

Just my vote.

Doug.

Re: How to use German capital sharp s (U+1E9E)?

2009-03-29 Thread Dominik Waßenhoven

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

> Dominik Waßenhoven wrote:
>> The Linux Libertine font has a capital sharp s. See
>> http://linuxlibertine.sourceforge.net/
> 
> I see. And is there a corresponding LaTeX macro?

libertine.sty comes with several options, including 'ss' for not using
the capital sharp s. Besides that, there is a macro (\useTextGlyph) to
use every character that's in the font.

Regards,
Dominik.-

Re: upload a custom layout

2009-03-29 Thread nick


Ok, I think that I can make a Russian translation of LyX's strings.
But I wonder if I can start from russian "ru.po" instead of Ukrainian 
"uk.po".

It seems to me that it already has many translated strings, so I could
just translate fuzzy/untranslated strings in "ru.po". (And of course I can
take some similar words from "uk.po" because Ukrainian and Russian 
indeed have many words in common)


With best regards,
Nick

Uwe Stöhr wrote:

nckg schrieb:


I've made a LyX layout which customizes "Theorems (AMS)" module the
following way:
1) Titles of theorems are translated to Russian language


Translating stings is automatically done by LyX. The problem is that 
we don't have actually a Russian translation of LyX's strings:

http://www.lyx.org/I18n
But as you can see, we have an almost complete translation to 
Ukrainian. I guess you can take the Ukrainian translation and create a 
Russian one out of it because Ukrainian and Russian have many words in 
common, don't they?

Translating LyX is relatively easy:

- download the file "uk.po" from here:
  
http://www.lyx.org/trac/browser/lyx-devel/branches/BRANCH_1_6_X/po/uk.po

- rename it to "ru.po" and open it with the program poedit:
  http://www.poedit.net/
- translate it

A more detailed description is given here:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/browser/lyx-devel/branches/BRANCH_1_6_X/README.localization 



You would help LyX a lot by translating its strings. When you are 
unsure or have questions, please ask on the lyx-docs and/or the 
lyx-devel mailing list and we'll help you.


2) Theorems, Definitions and so on are numbered separately, and each 
type
of these environments is numbered consecutively throughout the 
document...


For the other cases Richard heck knows more than me - I CCed him.

regards Uwe

Re: rotating package and float sideways tables

2009-03-29 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
> Robin already responded, and promised to put a new version on CTAN this
> weekend:
>
> http://groups.google.de/group/comp.text.tex/browse_thread/thread/b294c3790b
>d49a92
>
> It seems that adding \RequirePackage{color} is a workaround for the time
> being (I haven't checked that).

FYI a new version has been uploaded to CTAN. It should be part of the TeXLive 
and MikTeX updates shortly.

Jürgen

LyX Forum?

Hello, 
I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common users 
(I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates in my 
mailbox).
A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we use 
a normal forum site?
There's a LyX forum in "LaTeX community" but it's not as active as this 
discussion list; anyway I found that, as I did, other users posted something 
for this list in Nabble and then didn't get the answers because they didn't 
know Nabble don't post messages not posted directly there.
I think current (as past) LyX politic should be GO FOR THE AVERAGE USER, be 
simple and easy. Why LaTeX have a lot of forum sites, while LyX doesn't???
Lack of information or access to information is the worst (and senseless) way 
to discourage LyX users.
Thx
Piero

Re: LyX Forum?

Piero Faustini schrieb:

I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common users

Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the emails as
described here:
http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists
The whole list is archived at various websites.

A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we use
a normal forum site?

regards Uwe

Re: upload a custom layout


nick schrieb:


Ok, I think that I can make a Russian translation of LyX's strings.
But I wonder if I can start from russian "ru.po" instead of Ukrainian 
"uk.po".


Of course you can also start from ru.po. Use what suits you the most.

regards Uwe

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Piero Faustini wrote:


I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common users
(I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates in my
mailbox).


You can disable the daily updates to your mailbox and exclusively use 
GMANE.


Oh, I should probably mention that I'm accessing this "list" pureley as a 
news group, which I guess you might consider a forum although I do it with 
a separate news client.


cheers,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: LyX Forum?

Uwe Stöhr  writes:

> Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the emails as 
described here:
> http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists
> The whole list is archived at various websites.
> 

How many people use mailing lists? How many use forums? Say 1 lister every 20 
forumers? Say 1 to 10 (and I'm fair)? It's not me who says lists are 
difficoult, it's people. I never used lists before knowing LyX.  

> I don't see an advantage. At forums I always have to log in before I can post 
and I have to open the 
> webpage to reply. That means I every time have to enable cookies in my 
browser, then enter my user 
> name and password and then write afterwards I have to delete my browser 
history and disable cookies. 
> With a mailing list I only have to subscribe once and get the emails whenever 
I want to. I can also 
> store important mails at my PC, forward messages, compose messages out of 
several other ones, CC and 
> BCC people,  All this is not possible with a forum.

It's 10 years since last time I disabled cookies. I'm a Windows (95% of time) 
"integrate" internet user as millions more. I use cookies in my Xandros OS too. 
Integrate doesn't mean computer-pro. Sometimes it's opposite to pro.
Children use forums. They always had, because they are very, VERY simple. Lists 
are not that simple, comparing to forums (unless you care about cookies, which 
99% of people don't). Everything has its thumb up and down. I believe you that 
with lists you can do many things which a forum can't. But that's not the 
point. Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages, so they are 
for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess they will be ONLY 
for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it works (I spent some days 
puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to wrong addresses till I went to 
GMANE and used its forum-like interface)

> I think that LyX is one of the best documented projects and our user support 
is outstanding. When 
> you have a problem with LyX you'll usually get a solution within a day or 
two. So I'm interested why 
> you think LyX lacks information.

100% agree with you. I didn't want to say LyX lacks information. LyX 
information is GREAT and of 1st quality and fast and reliable and sincere. Just 
that if you can't have access to this information, it's value is ZERO, no 
matter why you didn't have access.
Let's say my name is Joe Average and I'm one of those 1000 potential LyX users 
who weekly crash in site. I use Windows and used MS Access at basic level once. 
I know something about html. I'm smart so I use OOo Writer with styles. I use 
the internet everyday. FULL STOP.
I found Lyx.org just because I read something, in a forum ;) of students. I try 
to use it and I get it working but that very day I get stuck trying to use some 
pics. Guide says I have to learn how to install it properly, and the basics of 
LaTeX. That's fair. Then I have to tweak something in the preamble. Ok. I have 
to change completely my Word-formatted mind. HARD, BUT I CAN. I just need some 
help, and LaTeX forums are not for LyXers and they're always with all that \$%. 
Then, they say me that I have to learn how to use a list (something I heard of 
at the beginning of the internet). I try once, twice. I give up lists. I give 
up LyX.
Hope will be better for next 999 users but I don't believe it.

Against common Scientific-pro based opinions, I think LyX strategy should be 
"GO TO THE PEOPLE", to students, to humanists, to people who are not computer-
pros which are millions. They still have to learn something aboute code etc. 
but the LyX community should ban everything which could stay between them and 
LyX and of course between them and LyX information (and is not strictly 
needed). Lists are just one of these little annoying things. I didn't say we 
have to use Facebook or a social site or something like that. Just a simple, 
plain forum. In a modern forum you can use a lot of features, but you need 
cookies, of course ;) .
If the entire discussion moved there, everything would be better for new users.

Well this is my idea.
thanks for your opinion
Piero

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread Stefano Franchi

On Sunday 29 March 2009 11:56:18 Piero Faustini wrote:
> Uwe Stöhr  writes:
> > Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the emails
> > as
>
> described here:
> > http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists
> > The whole list is archived at various websites.
>
> How many people use mailing lists? How many use forums? Say 1 lister every
> 20 forumers? Say 1 to 10 (and I'm fair)? It's not me who says lists are
> difficoult, it's people. I never used lists before knowing LyX.
>
> > I don't see an advantage. At forums I always have to log in before I can
> > post
>
> and I have to open the
>
> > webpage to reply. That means I every time have to enable cookies in my
>
> browser, then enter my user
>
> > name and password and then write afterwards I have to delete my browser
>
> history and disable cookies.
>
> > With a mailing list I only have to subscribe once and get the emails
> > whenever
>
> I want to. I can also
>
> > store important mails at my PC, forward messages, compose messages out of
>
> several other ones, CC and
>
> > BCC people,  All this is not possible with a forum.
>
> It's 10 years since last time I disabled cookies. I'm a Windows (95% of
> time) "integrate" internet user as millions more. I use cookies in my
> Xandros OS too. Integrate doesn't mean computer-pro. Sometimes it's
> opposite to pro. Children use forums. They always had, because they are
> very, VERY simple. Lists are not that simple, comparing to forums (unless
> you care about cookies, which 99% of people don't). Everything has its
> thumb up and down. I believe you that with lists you can do many things
> which a forum can't. But that's not the point. Lists are difficoult to use
> comparing to their advantages, so they are for PRO users, almost always
> have been, and in future I guess they will be ONLY for pro. Their worst
> difficoulty is to LEARN how it works (I spent some days puzzling and
> puzzling and sending messages to wrong addresses till I went to GMANE and
> used its forum-like interface)
>
> > I think that LyX is one of the best documented projects and our user
> > support
>
> is outstanding. When
>
> > you have a problem with LyX you'll usually get a solution within a day or
>
> two. So I'm interested why
>
> > you think LyX lacks information.
>
> 100% agree with you. I didn't want to say LyX lacks information. LyX
> information is GREAT and of 1st quality and fast and reliable and sincere.
> Just that if you can't have access to this information, it's value is ZERO,
> no matter why you didn't have access.
> Let's say my name is Joe Average and I'm one of those 1000 potential LyX
> users who weekly crash in site. I use Windows and used MS Access at basic
> level once. I know something about html. I'm smart so I use OOo Writer with
> styles. I use the internet everyday. FULL STOP.
> I found Lyx.org just because I read something, in a forum ;) of students. I
> try to use it and I get it working but that very day I get stuck trying to
> use some pics. Guide says I have to learn how to install it properly, and
> the basics of LaTeX. That's fair. Then I have to tweak something in the
> preamble. Ok. I have to change completely my Word-formatted mind. HARD, BUT
> I CAN. I just need some help, and LaTeX forums are not for LyXers and
> they're always with all that \$%. Then, they say me that I have to learn
> how to use a list (something I heard of at the beginning of the internet).
> I try once, twice. I give up lists. I give up LyX.
> Hope will be better for next 999 users but I don't believe it.
>
> Against common Scientific-pro based opinions, I think LyX strategy should
> be "GO TO THE PEOPLE", to students, to humanists, to people who are not
> computer- pros which are millions. They still have to learn something
> aboute code etc. but the LyX community should ban everything which could
> stay between them and LyX and of course between them and LyX information
> (and is not strictly needed). Lists are just one of these little annoying
> things. I didn't say we have to use Facebook or a social site or something
> like that. Just a simple, plain forum. In a modern forum you can use a lot
> of features, but you need cookies, of course ;) .
> If the entire discussion moved there, everything would be better for new
> users.
>
> Well this is my idea.
> thanks for your opinion
> Piero

Like Uwe, I am not quite sure I understand what's so difficult about lists. 
That 
is, unless you are used to reading mail in a browser and never used a mail 
client. Lists have also many advantages, which Uwe summed up nicely. However, 
I am also old enough to have used e-mail for years before browsing came into 
existence, so what Piero is saying may just be a pointer to a generational 
gap.

The issue though, is that the great support Lyx provides is (mostly) in the 
hands of a relatively small group of people who very generously share their 
time and expertise---Uwe himself being perhaps the most active

Re: LyX Forum?


Stefano Franchi schrieb:

The issue though, is that the great support Lyx provides is (mostly) in the 
hands of a relatively small group of people who very generously share their 
time and expertise---Uwe himself being perhaps the most active member of this 
group. What they prefer is the law of lyx-land!


What I prefer is hopefully never a law! LyX used mailing lists for years long 
before I joined LyX.
(I started supporting LyX with its mailing list btw. and I cannot think right now that anything else 
might be easier. And I'm 29, so not too old not to know the possibilities of forums ;-) )


regards Uwe

Re: LyX Forum?

2009/3/29 Piero Faustini 

> [...]
> Integrate doesn't mean computer-pro. Sometimes it's opposite to pro.
> Children use forums. They always had, because they are very, VERY simple.
> Lists
> are not that simple, comparing to forums (unless you care about cookies,
> which
> 99% of people don't). Everything has its thumb up and down. I believe you
> that
> with lists you can do many things which a forum can't. But that's not the
> point. Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages, so they
> are
> for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess they will be
> ONLY
> for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it works (I spent some
> days
> puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to wrong addresses till I went
> to
> GMANE and used its forum-like interface)
>
> [...]
> I found Lyx.org just because I read something, in a forum ;) of students. I
> try
> to use it and I get it working but that very day I get stuck trying to use
> some
> pics. Guide says I have to learn how to install it properly, and the basics
> of
> LaTeX. That's fair. Then I have to tweak something in the preamble. Ok. I
> have
> to change completely my Word-formatted mind. HARD, BUT I CAN. I just need
> some
> help, and LaTeX forums are not for LyXers and they're always with all that
> \$%.
> Then, they say me that I have to learn how to use a list (something I heard
> of
> at the beginning of the internet). I try once, twice. I give up lists. I
> give
> up LyX.
> Hope will be better for next 999 users but I don't believe it.
>
> Against common Scientific-pro based opinions, I think LyX strategy should
> be
> "GO TO THE PEOPLE", to students, to humanists, to people who are not
> computer-
> pros which are millions. They still have to learn something aboute code
> etc.
> but the LyX community should ban everything which could stay between them
> and
> LyX and of course between them and LyX information (and is not strictly
> needed). Lists are just one of these little annoying things.[...]


Don't feel offended, but I think LyX was not designed for children. Do not
understand me wrong, but I am using Internet for 13 years and I know that
news groups and lists have veeery looong tradition. Are there was times when
even children uses them. Today we have the era of Web 2.0, but this does not
mean that everything should be available by the the web. Personally forums
are not my favourite way of discussion, they are fine for advetising. Mail
lists are not ideal too, as often I receive lot of infomation I do not need
- but in case of LyX it teach me a lot.

Backing to the "children" subject, I want to tell you that I was a witness
of specific change in the Internet itself in about 1999. In Poland that time
new service from our "national" telecom operation become available - it
allows to call to the internet by modem for the price of connection only. It
was a revolution, beacause large number of people get wide access to "the
global village", mainly childrens. The level of discussion on medias like
maillists and IRC quickly has gone very low. Today we - all veterans of
Internet in Poland - call these people "childrens of neostrada", as they
still represent low level of discussion and culture. Nestrada - for you
information - is the name of another service from "national operator sold to
France Telecom" based on ADSL... I think this do not need more comment.

I miss that times before commercialized Internet.

-- 
Manveru
jabber: manv...@manveru.pl
gg: 1624001
  http://www.manveru.pl

Re: LyX Forum?

Stefano Franchi  writes:

> Like Uwe, I am not quite sure I understand what's so difficult about lists. 
That 
> is, unless you are used to reading mail in a browser and never used a mail 
> client.

Of course I use a webclient (M$Hotmail, the worst ever, but who cares?) and 
everything ends up a mess.

 Lists have also many advantages, which Uwe summed up nicely. However, 
> I am also old enough to have used e-mail for years before browsing came into 
> existence, so what Piero is saying may just be a pointer to a generational 
> gap.
> 

Good point. A gap. The most experienced (or advanced) Internet users are 
nowadays less than basic-traditional-computer users and only 1 on 100 of them 
used the internet in the mid 90s, where newsgroups and lists were the most 
advancede way to communicate, but this is ancient history. The same with the 
80s: advanced personal computers users and programmers knew nothing about basic 
electricity knoledge, which was the most advanced knoledge for their fathers. 
Who cared once? 
Nowadays the future is the advanced social networking, but the "open" community 
seems to be far less interested in it than companie$. This is absolutely the 
worst thing of the internet today. Glorious habits should evolve as everything 
else. What I lack most of LyX (and LaTeX)? Web-based environments, web-based 
bibliographies, web-based computing.. ok, we can't have EVERYTHING, but the 
various Google-Whatever are the best creatures of the net and this is the 
future, we all know it.

> The issue though, is that the great support Lyx provides is (mostly) in the 
> hands of a relatively small group of people who very generously share their 
> time and expertise---Uwe himself being perhaps the most active member of this 
> group. What they prefer is the law of lyx-land!

Without all of you I would be almost dead. Thank you with the entire lyxer 
heart.

Re: upload a custom layout

2009/3/29 Uwe Stöhr 

> nick schrieb:
>
>  Ok, I think that I can make a Russian translation of LyX's strings.
>> But I wonder if I can start from russian "ru.po" instead of Ukrainian
>> "uk.po".
>>
>
> Of course you can also start from ru.po. Use what suits you the most.
>
> regards Uwe
>

Nick you can even try to merge uk.po and ru.po to ro.new.po before you start
(you can use TortoiseDiff, KDiff, WinMerge... and plenty others I think),
and then correct Ukrainian to Russian, and then translate rest of strings.

-- 
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jabber: manv...@manveru.pl
gg: 1624001
  http://www.manveru.pl

Where is the standard installerfür Lyx 1.6.2-1?

2009-03-29 Thread Matthias Schmidt

Hello,

plaese  where  can  I  find  the  standard  installer  für Lyx 1.6.2-1
(LyX-1.6.2-1-Installer.exe, 20  MB).  I tried it with the link in the
lyx-wiki  on http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/Windows. There I get an error
message "550 LyX-1.6.2-1-Installer.exe: No such file or directory".

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Matthias Schmidt
mailto:gm_schm...@yahoo.de

Diese Nachricht ist mit Norton Internet Security geprüft




___
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Piero Faustini wrote:

else. What I lack most of LyX (and LaTeX)? Web-based environments, 
web-based bibliographies, web-based computing.. ok, we can't have 
EVERYTHING, but the various Google-Whatever are the best creatures of 
the net and this is the future, we all know it.


Could you be more specific? We have:
* web site
* wiki site
* mailing lists (i.e a forum)

As for LaTeX-wise, there's something that can take wiki pages via LaTeX to 
PDF, so that's basically web based LaTeX computing for you?


I really am curious,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Uwe Stöhr wrote:

(I started supporting LyX with its mailing list btw. and I cannot think 
right now that anything else might be easier. And I'm 29, so not too old 
not to know the possibilities of forums ;-) )


I'm 35, so I don't see the advantages with forums... or lists for that 
matter over news groups ;-) ;-)


Seriously though, why is a "forum" different from a list?

/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Christian Ridderstr?m wrote:


Seriously though, why is a "forum" different from a list?


/Christian,

  Two differences, as far as I know:

  1.) Fora are hosted on a web site and mail lists are hosted on a server
that needs no more than a mailing list manager (MLM). The former requires a
GUI while the latter is text based (although subscribers can use a GUI MUA
-- go ahead, say that quickly -- to read the text).

  2.) Fora require subscribers to actively load the apppropriate web page
and pull down the articles/messages of interest to them. A mail list pushes
the messages to each subscriber who is free to read, delete, or otherwise
manage the messages sent.

  Personally, I much prefer mail lists. It is many times easier to check my
MUA and tab through the various mail list folders at my convenience (all
done without removing my hands from the keyboard) than it is to open a new
firefox tab, enter the URL (or select the bookmark using the pointy device),
then scroll through the list on the presented web page.

  Usenet used to be OK. Now, unfortunately, it's jammed with spam and folks
with attitudes. Mail lists tend to be more polite and helpful.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
 Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: LyX Forum?

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 04:56:18PM +, Piero Faustini wrote:
> Uwe Stöhr  writes:
> > Why is it hard to use? You sing the mailing list and then get the
> > emails as described here:
> > http://www.lyx.org/MailingLists The whole list is archived at
> > various websites.
> 
> How many people use mailing lists? How many use forums? Say 1 lister
> every 20 forumers? Say 1 to 10 (and I'm fair)?

Numbers alone do not matter much in such cases. Some things simply
do not scale linearily.

And - I'd expect an average LaTeX user to be able to handle e-mail...

> It's not me who says lists are difficoult, it's people. I never used
> lists before knowing LyX.

Other people used mailing lists before web forums had been in use.

For me, a mailing list (or "real" news) has two major advantages: I can
search and filter for any criteria I want to, and I can use the text
editor I like. Both is usually not (painlessly) possible with a web
interface. 

> They always had, because
> they are very, VERY simple. Lists are not that simple, comparing to
> forums (unless you care about cookies, which 99% of people don't).

Simple is good, as long as it does the job. But not often for more than that.

> Everything has its thumb up and down. I believe you that with lists
> you can do many things which a forum can't. But that's not the point.

That's exactly the point ;-} 

I can scan a dozen mailing lists easily on a daily base. I would not do
the same for web forums.

> Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages, so they are
> for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess they
> will be ONLY for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it works
> (I spent some days puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to wrong
> addresses till I went to GMANE and used its forum-like interface)

So you found a solution that fits your need. Good.

Andre'

Re: LyX Forum?

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 08:34:14PM +0200, Christian Ridderström wrote:
> [...] Seriously though, why is a "forum" different from a list?

The problem seems to be that he uses a web interface to read a mails.
Of course, with such a background, a well-organized forum _is_ an
advantage. Like using a bike instead of walking. But then, steam
engines have been invented more than twenty years ago ;-}

Andre'

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread Steve Litt

On Sunday 29 March 2009 09:15:59 am Piero Faustini wrote:
> Hello,
> I wonder why could not these discussions been moved to a forum.
> I mean, the discussion list is great but is very hard to use for common
> users (I use GMANE for writing/browsing but I still receive daily updates
> in my mailbox).
> A forum-like interface like Nabble would be much better but... why don't we
> use a normal forum site?
> There's a LyX forum in "LaTeX community" but it's not as active as this
> discussion list; anyway I found that, as I did, other users posted
> something for this list in Nabble and then didn't get the answers because
> they didn't know Nabble don't post messages not posted directly there.
> I think current (as past) LyX politic should be GO FOR THE AVERAGE USER, be
> simple and easy. Why LaTeX have a lot of forum sites, while LyX doesn't???
> Lack of information or access to information is the worst (and senseless)
> way to discourage LyX users.
> Thx
> Piero

If this list became forum only, I'd be gone. As a person on 20 mailing lists, 
I like the fact that posts get sent to me. I don't have time to go around 
looking for them.

I tried forums last century and found after a brief period of keeping up, I 
stopped looking for posts as it became too time consuming.

The LyX list can be accessed via gmane.org, so we have the best of both 
worlds. I don't see the advantages of eliminating the mailing list, and once 
again, if it were eliminated, I wouldn't join the forum.

I'm just one guy so it's no big deal, but if several other people also went 
away it wouldn't be good, especially if some of them were people who answered 
questions.

The LyX mailing list's worked well for me since 2001, and a quick gmane search 
shows posts as far back as February 1999 (happy tenth everyone!). My advice 
would be, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US

Re: LyX Forum?


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Andre Poenitz wrote:


It's not me who says lists are difficoult, it's people. I never used
lists before knowing LyX.



Other people used mailing lists before web forums had been in use.


  First there was ARPANET (text based), then BitNet (text based), then
Usenet (text based); with tools such as Archie (text based) and WAIS (text
based).

  Of course, if one grows up inculcated by Microsoft and accepts that there
way is the Only One True Way, then one has a terribly narrow view of the
computing world.


They always had, because they are very, VERY simple. Lists are not that
simple, comparing to forums (unless you care about cookies, which 99% of
people don't).


  Feh! That's complete nonsense. However, ... if someone finds it very
difficult to look at a list of messages on his/her own machine, while
finding it simple to look at them on someone else's machine via a web
interface I can understand the confusion.


Lists are difficoult to use comparing to their advantages,


  How...exactly?


so they are for PRO users, almost always have been, and in future I guess
they will be ONLY for pro. Their worst difficoulty is to LEARN how it
works (I spent some days puzzling and puzzling and sending messages to
wrong addresses till I went to GMANE and used its forum-like interface)


  Ooh! So because you couldn't figure out how to read and send mail they're
a bad idea. And only PROs (however you define them) are smart enough to
figure them out. Interesting.


So you found a solution that fits your need. Good.


  Yup. And it's a GUI front end to the mail list.

  I've never understood why people want pictures to read text. The last time
I saw a book with text in different colors and typefaces, and illustrated
with pictures was when I read childrens' books to my young son. Books for
adults (well, most adults who don't read comic books, anyway) don't have all
the enhancements of a GUI; neither to newspapers.

Rich

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread rgheck


Rich Shepard wrote:
Books for adults (well, most adults who don't read comic books, 
anyway) don't have all the enhancements of a GUI; neither do newspapers.


Which, I'm sad to say, may explain why newspapers all around the US are 
shutting their doors. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the several dozen 
people who still read a newspaper. But perhaps we have learned something.


rh

Re: LyX Forum?

2009-03-29 Thread john

Rich Shepard wrote:
>   Usenet used to be OK. Now, unfortunately, it's jammed with spam and
> folks
> with attitudes. Mail lists tend to be more polite and helpful.
Amen to that.
And the LyX list is extraordinarily polite, helpful, relevant, and
knowledgable.

I have used several lists related to Linux and opensource development
projects.
Unfortunately some are afflicted with abusive, ignorant, politically or
doctrinally motivated people grinding their sectarian axes inappropriately.
The LyX list, in contrast, is a haven of respectful and capable people.
The LyX list has never failed me in my attempts to find answers to
questions about the arcana of LyX.
>
> Rich
>

Re: Where is the standard installerfür Lyx 1.6.2-1?


Matthias Schmidt schrieb:


plaese  where  can  I  find  the  standard  installer  für Lyx 1.6.2-1
(LyX-1.6.2-1-Installer.exe, 20  MB). 


Have a look at ftp.lyx.org alternatively you can use the alternative Windows installer. Both 
installers set up LyX as best as possible.


regards Uwe

Re: LyX Forum?