Re: LyZ: lyxpipe changes in 2.0?

[Petr Šimon]

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Pavel Sanda sa...@lyx.org wrote:
 Jose Quesada wrote:
 Thanks Pavel,
 So this means that 2.0beta/svn doesn't work with LyZ? Is this fixable?
 I did try 1.6.8 and it did work :)

 there were many changes i the pipe code, but i thought they were all
 backported to 1.6... well, i may be wrong. anyway the fixability looks
 more like the question for lyz developer, CC-ing now.

 actually the problem might be that we changed some lfuns for inserting
 citations and not pipes related at all... see RELEASE_NOTES for the list
 of changes.

 pavel

Hi,
thanks a lot. I didn't have time to do it yet, but I'll take care of it soon.
Best
Petr

Re: LyZ: lyxpipe changes in 2.0?

[Petr Šimon]

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Pavel Sanda sa...@lyx.org wrote:
 Jose Quesada wrote:
 Thanks Pavel,
 So this means that 2.0beta/svn doesn't work with LyZ? Is this fixable?
 I did try 1.6.8 and it did work :)

 there were many changes i the pipe code, but i thought they were all
 backported to 1.6... well, i may be wrong. anyway the fixability looks
 more like the question for lyz developer, CC-ing now.

 actually the problem might be that we changed some lfuns for inserting
 citations and not pipes related at all... see RELEASE_NOTES for the list
 of changes.

 pavel

Hi,
thanks a lot. I didn't have time to do it yet, but I'll take care of it soon.
Best
Petr

Re: LyZ: lyxpipe changes in 2.0?

[Petr Šimon]

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Pavel Sanda  wrote:
> Jose Quesada wrote:
>> Thanks Pavel,
>> So this means that 2.0beta/svn doesn't work with LyZ? Is this fixable?
>> I did try 1.6.8 and it did work :)
>
> there were many changes i the pipe code, but i thought they were all
> backported to 1.6... well, i may be wrong. anyway the fixability looks
> more like the question for lyz developer, CC-ing now.
>
> actually the problem might be that we changed some lfuns for inserting
> citations and not pipes related at all... see RELEASE_NOTES for the list
> of changes.
>
> pavel
>
Hi,
thanks a lot. I didn't have time to do it yet, but I'll take care of it soon.
Best
Petr

Re: LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

2010/2/23 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org:
 Petr Šimon wrote:
 (I am not on the list, please CC)
 Hello,
 would it be possible to change the subexamples so that a group label
 is provided. In fact would it be possible to automatically add a label
 for each subexample (just empty label with prefix such as ex: ) and
 one for the group?

 I do not quite understand what you want, but you can redefine the subexamples
 environment. The original definiton is:

 \newenvironment{subexample}{%
 \begin{example}\begin{enumerate}[leftmargin=1.7em]
 \renewcommand\theenumi{\alph{enumi}}
 \renewcommand\labelenumi{(\theenumi)}
 \renewcomman...@enumi{\theequation\,}}%
 {\end{enumerate}\end{example}}


 Many thanks
 Petr


 Jürgen


I have in mind something like this:
\begin{example} \label{1}
  \begin{enumerate}
\item a \label{1a}
\item b label{1b}

So that I can refer to all the subexamples by 1 and to each
individually, 1a and 1b.
I would hope that when I add a subexample a group label would be inserted.
Is this possible from the layout definitions? I tried to look at it
briefly, but it wasn't clear to me how that would be possible.
Many thanks
Petr

Re: LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

2010/2/23 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org:
 Petr Šimon wrote:
 I have in mind something like this:
 \begin{example} \label{1}
   \begin{enumerate}
     \item a \label{1a}
     \item b label{1b}

 So that I can refer to all the subexamples by 1 and to each
 individually, 1a and 1b.
 I would hope that when I add a subexample a group label would be inserted.
 Is this possible from the layout definitions? I tried to look at it
 briefly, but it wasn't clear to me how that would be possible.

 No. You will need to use ERT.

 Jürgen


Ok, thanks.
Perhaps it could be added later? Right now the subexamples make little
sense when they can't be referred to as a group.
Petr

Re: LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

2010/2/24 Maria Gouskova gousk...@gmail.com:
 I haven't found a way to do it using Covington numbering, which is
 what I usually use. You can either have all examples numbered as
 sub-examples and not have a group heading for them, or just use crude
 manual numbering for your (a) and (b) sub-examples and use automatic
 labeling and cross-referencing for the main example.

 Maria

 2010/2/23 Petr Šimon petr.si...@gmail.com:
 2010/2/23 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org:
 Petr Šimon wrote:
 I have in mind something like this:
 \begin{example} \label{1}
   \begin{enumerate}
     \item a \label{1a}
     \item b label{1b}

 So that I can refer to all the subexamples by 1 and to each
 individually, 1a and 1b.
 I would hope that when I add a subexample a group label would be inserted.
 Is this possible from the layout definitions? I tried to look at it
 briefly, but it wasn't clear to me how that would be possible.

 No. You will need to use ERT.

 Jürgen


 Ok, thanks.
 Perhaps it could be added later? Right now the subexamples make little
 sense when they can't be referred to as a group.
 Petr



Thanks Maria. Yes, I know. I was wandering if it would be possible to
do it the way subequations are done (only without the super
equation).
I came up with the following, only if it was possible to do it without ERT

\renewcommand{\labelenumi}{(\arabic{enumi})}
\begin{enumerate}
  \item \label{1}
  \begin{enumerate}
\item \label{1a} example a
\item \label{1b} example b
  \end{enumerate}
\end{enumerate}
(\ref{1}) and (\ref{1a}) and (\ref{1b})

Petr

Re: LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

2010/2/23 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org:
 Petr Šimon wrote:
 (I am not on the list, please CC)
 Hello,
 would it be possible to change the subexamples so that a group label
 is provided. In fact would it be possible to automatically add a label
 for each subexample (just empty label with prefix such as ex: ) and
 one for the group?

 I do not quite understand what you want, but you can redefine the subexamples
 environment. The original definiton is:

 \newenvironment{subexample}{%
 \begin{example}\begin{enumerate}[leftmargin=1.7em]
 \renewcommand\theenumi{\alph{enumi}}
 \renewcommand\labelenumi{(\theenumi)}
 \renewcomman...@enumi{\theequation\,}}%
 {\end{enumerate}\end{example}}


 Many thanks
 Petr


 Jürgen


I have in mind something like this:
\begin{example} \label{1}
  \begin{enumerate}
\item a \label{1a}
\item b label{1b}

So that I can refer to all the subexamples by 1 and to each
individually, 1a and 1b.
I would hope that when I add a subexample a group label would be inserted.
Is this possible from the layout definitions? I tried to look at it
briefly, but it wasn't clear to me how that would be possible.
Many thanks
Petr

Re: LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

2010/2/23 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org:
 Petr Šimon wrote:
 I have in mind something like this:
 \begin{example} \label{1}
   \begin{enumerate}
     \item a \label{1a}
     \item b label{1b}

 So that I can refer to all the subexamples by 1 and to each
 individually, 1a and 1b.
 I would hope that when I add a subexample a group label would be inserted.
 Is this possible from the layout definitions? I tried to look at it
 briefly, but it wasn't clear to me how that would be possible.

 No. You will need to use ERT.

 Jürgen


Ok, thanks.
Perhaps it could be added later? Right now the subexamples make little
sense when they can't be referred to as a group.
Petr

Re: LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

2010/2/24 Maria Gouskova gousk...@gmail.com:
 I haven't found a way to do it using Covington numbering, which is
 what I usually use. You can either have all examples numbered as
 sub-examples and not have a group heading for them, or just use crude
 manual numbering for your (a) and (b) sub-examples and use automatic
 labeling and cross-referencing for the main example.

 Maria

 2010/2/23 Petr Šimon petr.si...@gmail.com:
 2010/2/23 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org:
 Petr Šimon wrote:
 I have in mind something like this:
 \begin{example} \label{1}
   \begin{enumerate}
     \item a \label{1a}
     \item b label{1b}

 So that I can refer to all the subexamples by 1 and to each
 individually, 1a and 1b.
 I would hope that when I add a subexample a group label would be inserted.
 Is this possible from the layout definitions? I tried to look at it
 briefly, but it wasn't clear to me how that would be possible.

 No. You will need to use ERT.

 Jürgen


 Ok, thanks.
 Perhaps it could be added later? Right now the subexamples make little
 sense when they can't be referred to as a group.
 Petr



Thanks Maria. Yes, I know. I was wandering if it would be possible to
do it the way subequations are done (only without the super
equation).
I came up with the following, only if it was possible to do it without ERT

\renewcommand{\labelenumi}{(\arabic{enumi})}
\begin{enumerate}
  \item \label{1}
  \begin{enumerate}
\item \label{1a} example a
\item \label{1b} example b
  \end{enumerate}
\end{enumerate}
(\ref{1}) and (\ref{1a}) and (\ref{1b})

Petr

Re: LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

2010/2/23 Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>:
> Petr Šimon wrote:
>> (I am not on the list, please CC)
>> Hello,
>> would it be possible to change the subexamples so that a group label
>> is provided. In fact would it be possible to automatically add a label
>> for each subexample (just empty label with prefix such as "ex:" ) and
>> one for the group?
>
> I do not quite understand what you want, but you can redefine the subexamples
> environment. The original definiton is:
>
> \newenvironment{subexample}{%
> \begin{example}\begin{enumerate}[leftmargin=1.7em]
> \renewcommand\theenumi{\alph{enumi}}
> \renewcommand\labelenumi{(\theenumi)}
> \renewcomman...@enumi{\theequation\,}}%
> {\end{enumerate}\end{example}}
>
>
>> Many thanks
>> Petr
>
>
> Jürgen
>

I have in mind something like this:
\begin{example} \label{1}
  \begin{enumerate}
\item a \label{1a}
\item b label{1b}

So that I can refer to all the subexamples by 1 and to each
individually, 1a and 1b.
I would hope that when I add a subexample a group label would be inserted.
Is this possible from the layout definitions? I tried to look at it
briefly, but it wasn't clear to me how that would be possible.
Many thanks
Petr

Re: LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

2010/2/23 Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>:
> Petr Šimon wrote:
>> I have in mind something like this:
>> \begin{example} \label{1}
>>   \begin{enumerate}
>>     \item a \label{1a}
>>     \item b label{1b}
>>
>> So that I can refer to all the subexamples by 1 and to each
>> individually, 1a and 1b.
>> I would hope that when I add a subexample a group label would be inserted.
>> Is this possible from the layout definitions? I tried to look at it
>> briefly, but it wasn't clear to me how that would be possible.
>
> No. You will need to use ERT.
>
> Jürgen
>

Ok, thanks.
Perhaps it could be added later? Right now the subexamples make little
sense when they can't be referred to as a group.
Petr

Re: LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

2010/2/24 Maria Gouskova <gousk...@gmail.com>:
> I haven't found a way to do it using Covington numbering, which is
> what I usually use. You can either have all examples numbered as
> sub-examples and not have a group heading for them, or just use crude
> manual numbering for your (a) and (b) sub-examples and use automatic
> labeling and cross-referencing for the main example.
>
> Maria
>
> 2010/2/23 Petr Šimon <petr.si...@gmail.com>:
>> 2010/2/23 Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>:
>>> Petr Šimon wrote:
>>>> I have in mind something like this:
>>>> \begin{example} \label{1}
>>>>   \begin{enumerate}
>>>>     \item a \label{1a}
>>>>     \item b label{1b}
>>>>
>>>> So that I can refer to all the subexamples by 1 and to each
>>>> individually, 1a and 1b.
>>>> I would hope that when I add a subexample a group label would be inserted.
>>>> Is this possible from the layout definitions? I tried to look at it
>>>> briefly, but it wasn't clear to me how that would be possible.
>>>
>>> No. You will need to use ERT.
>>>
>>> Jürgen
>>>
>>
>> Ok, thanks.
>> Perhaps it could be added later? Right now the subexamples make little
>> sense when they can't be referred to as a group.
>> Petr
>>
>

Thanks Maria. Yes, I know. I was wandering if it would be possible to
do it the way subequations are done (only without the "super"
equation).
I came up with the following, only if it was possible to do it without ERT

\renewcommand{\labelenumi}{(\arabic{enumi})}
\begin{enumerate}
  \item \label{1}
  \begin{enumerate}
\item \label{1a} example a
\item \label{1b} example b
  \end{enumerate}
\end{enumerate}
(\ref{1}) and (\ref{1a}) and (\ref{1b})

Petr

LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

(I am not on the list, please CC)
Hello,
would it be possible to change the subexamples so that a group label
is provided. In fact would it be possible to automatically add a label
for each subexample (just empty label with prefix such as ex: ) and
one for the group?
Many thanks
Petr

LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

(I am not on the list, please CC)
Hello,
would it be possible to change the subexamples so that a group label
is provided. In fact would it be possible to automatically add a label
for each subexample (just empty label with prefix such as ex: ) and
one for the group?
Many thanks
Petr

LinguistLyx: label on group of subexamples

[Petr Šimon]

(I am not on the list, please CC)
Hello,
would it be possible to change the subexamples so that a group label
is provided. In fact would it be possible to automatically add a label
for each subexample (just empty label with prefix such as "ex:" ) and
one for the group?
Many thanks
Petr

Re: LyZ: Lyx plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

On 6.1.2010 6:30, Peter Baumgartner wrote:

Hi Petr,

   

I have (probably) finished the plugin, i.e. at least as far as new
functionality goes.
 

Sounds great! I was always looking to prevent this extra export of data into a
.bib file from zotero.

But I have some problems:
1. The plugin does not export special characters like German umlaute correctly.
2. Deleting and renaming of bib and lyx-record does not work for me.

I'm working with a Mac. Maybe this explains the problems?

Peter
   

Hi Peter,
I try to fix these if you could send me
1. the references exported to bibtex (either from Lyz or Zotero). I 
tried with some German, but probably I am missed some characters

2. any error in the error console (Firefox menu Tools Error Console)
Thanks
Petr

Re: Multiple files for book

[Petr Šimon]

On 6.1.2010 10:08, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:


I'm a new comer to Lyx, and reading some of the tute and skim reading 
topics of interest the rest.


I'm still left with a question. (hope I didn't miss it)

If creating a book with a couple hundred pages, do I put it all in 
one big lyx file, or do I split it across multiple files (say one 
file per chapter),


You can choose either way.

and somehow pull each chapter into book with some sort of include 
command?


Yes, you can insert a child via the menu Insert-File-Child Document.

I know other programs would suggest the multiple document way so you 
don't have to scroll around a single massive file looking for the 
area you want to work on, however the navigator in Lyx would seem to 
mitigate that effect.


I just want to understand the Lyx way of structuring a large book.

I'm guessing if Lyx does support  files for each chapter, then the 
navigator would not 'span' the multiple files allowing jumping from 
chapter to chapter?


It does span the multiple files, it computes the correct chapter 
numbers and so on..


Also the book will have a large number of images, do you usually put 
them all in one directory or put them in some sort of hierarchical 
directory structure.


Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Steve


Vincent

Have a look here: http://wiki.lyx.org/Examples/Thesis. Those are 
basically all books split into several files.

Petr

Re: LyZ: Lyx plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

On 6.1.2010 6:30, Peter Baumgartner wrote:

Hi Petr,

   

I have (probably) finished the plugin, i.e. at least as far as new
functionality goes.
 

Sounds great! I was always looking to prevent this extra export of data into a
.bib file from zotero.

But I have some problems:
1. The plugin does not export special characters like German umlaute correctly.
2. Deleting and renaming of bib and lyx-record does not work for me.

I'm working with a Mac. Maybe this explains the problems?

Peter
   

Hi Peter,
I try to fix these if you could send me
1. the references exported to bibtex (either from Lyz or Zotero). I 
tried with some German, but probably I am missed some characters

2. any error in the error console (Firefox menu Tools Error Console)
Thanks
Petr

Re: Multiple files for book

[Petr Šimon]

On 6.1.2010 10:08, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:


I'm a new comer to Lyx, and reading some of the tute and skim reading 
topics of interest the rest.


I'm still left with a question. (hope I didn't miss it)

If creating a book with a couple hundred pages, do I put it all in 
one big lyx file, or do I split it across multiple files (say one 
file per chapter),


You can choose either way.

and somehow pull each chapter into book with some sort of include 
command?


Yes, you can insert a child via the menu Insert-File-Child Document.

I know other programs would suggest the multiple document way so you 
don't have to scroll around a single massive file looking for the 
area you want to work on, however the navigator in Lyx would seem to 
mitigate that effect.


I just want to understand the Lyx way of structuring a large book.

I'm guessing if Lyx does support  files for each chapter, then the 
navigator would not 'span' the multiple files allowing jumping from 
chapter to chapter?


It does span the multiple files, it computes the correct chapter 
numbers and so on..


Also the book will have a large number of images, do you usually put 
them all in one directory or put them in some sort of hierarchical 
directory structure.


Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Steve


Vincent

Have a look here: http://wiki.lyx.org/Examples/Thesis. Those are 
basically all books split into several files.

Petr

Re: LyZ: Lyx plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

On 6.1.2010 6:30, Peter Baumgartner wrote:

Hi Petr,

   

I have (probably) finished the plugin, i.e. at least as far as new
functionality goes.
 

Sounds great! I was always looking to prevent this extra export of data into a
.bib file from zotero.

But I have some problems:
1. The plugin does not export special characters like German umlaute correctly.
2. Deleting and renaming of bib and lyx-record does not work for me.

I'm working with a Mac. Maybe this explains the problems?

Peter
   

Hi Peter,
I try to fix these if you could send me
1. the references exported to bibtex (either from Lyz or Zotero). I 
tried with some German, but probably I am missed some characters

2. any error in the error console (Firefox menu Tools> Error Console)
Thanks
Petr

Re: Multiple files for book

[Petr Šimon]

On 6.1.2010 10:08, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:


I'm a new comer to Lyx, and reading some of the tute and skim reading 
topics of interest the rest.


I'm still left with a question. (hope I didn't miss it)

If creating a book with a couple hundred pages, do I put it all in 
one big lyx file, or do I split it across multiple files (say one 
file per chapter),


You can choose either way.

and somehow pull each chapter into book with some sort of include 
command?


Yes, you can insert a child via the menu "Insert->File->Child Document".

I know other programs would suggest the multiple document way so you 
don't have to scroll around a single massive file looking for the 
area you want to work on, however the navigator in Lyx would seem to 
mitigate that effect.


I just want to understand the Lyx way of structuring a large book.

I'm guessing if Lyx does support  files for each chapter, then the 
navigator would not 'span' the multiple files allowing jumping from 
chapter to chapter?


It does span the multiple files, it computes the correct chapter 
numbers and so on..


Also the book will have a large number of images, do you usually put 
them all in one directory or put them in some sort of hierarchical 
directory structure.


Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Steve


Vincent

Have a look here: http://wiki.lyx.org/Examples/Thesis. Those are 
basically all books split into several files.

Petr

Re: LyZ: LyX plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

On 3.1.2010 0:38, Daniel Lohmann wrote:


On 30.12.2009, at 01:57, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Petr Šimon wrote:
Currently the citation key can be made out of 'author', 'year', 
'title' and
optionally from separators like '_'. I will add another keyword, 
'zotero'

that will create the cite key from unique identifier in zotero db.


yep, this was the main complaint in bug #6300. i expect two usecases -

* users who dont care a about citekeys and just want to externally push
 citations and need to keep bitex keys stable. for these zotero ID is 
the way.


* users who care about keys and need the stable bibtex keys too. for 
those
 the customizable citekey is the way. in this case is expecting 
users to

 be intelligent about the keys certainly in order.



Hey Petr,

Thanks for all the hard work on LyZ. I haven't checked out Zotero for 
a while; liked it a lot, but the integration with LyX was odd and it 
tended to corrupt my bibtex databases. However, with LyZ I will give 
it another try.


I just want to put emphasize the importance of customizable citation 
keys! Many of us work in collaborative environments with shared bibtex 
databases and specific home grown requirements on how the keys are 
made up. For instance, in our group this is:
author:two-digit-year:venue (with venue being an abbreviation 
for the conference or journal the paper appeared.)
In fact, in my group this it has always been the number one argument 
against bibtex frontend XYZ that it does not get the keys right.


Having said that, I would appreciate an even better configurability of 
the key generation. What I would really like is the option to enter an 
advanced formatting string to generate the keys, including besides the 
variables for author, year, etc. various formatting specifiers and 
conditionals, such as:

- number of digits (e.g., use only the two last digits of the year)
- upper case/lower vase (very important, unfortunately very few tools 
support this)
- conditionals (e.g., @book entries do not have a venue; URLs do not 
have a year and the venue is 'site')

- ...

Another important point in which most, if not all, bibtex frontends 
fail miserably is the requirement to be minimally invasive on the 
bibtex database. Some collaborators still prefer editing the database 
with a text editor. What I expect from  a good frontend is that it 
leaves all entries alone in the file that have not been modified in 
the current session,  including formatting, LaTeX comment lines 
beginning with %, and so on. Basically, if I use your tool to add or 
edit an entry 'foobar' and update the bibtex file underneath, the the 
diff to the previous version of the bibtex file should contain only 
lines that are related to the 'foobar' entry.


Just my 2 items on the long-term wish list :-)

Daniel



Hi Daniel,
I'm glad you said a 'long-term wish list' :)
Bibtex keys are now independent of unique identifiers. I will think 
about more advanced customization soon.
As for the bibtex file update and the 'invasiveness of frontends': I 
have been exporting from Zotero to bibtex for a while now and rarely did 
I have any problems, except for couple of weird characters that were 
easily corrected in Zotero. I would rather patch Zotero's bibtex export. 
In what cases would manual editing of the bibtex file be necessary?
Important point is that when you are collaborating with others and using 
this plugin, only people citing from Zotero should be allowed to update 
the file, because I am using the true identifiers in bibtex comments 
(actually anywhere oustide of @ and } ) and I don't care about the 
bibtex entries at all, except that I replace the bibtex key when necessary.

Best
Petr

Re: LyZ: LyX plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

On 3.1.2010 0:38, Daniel Lohmann wrote:


On 30.12.2009, at 01:57, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Petr Šimon wrote:
Currently the citation key can be made out of 'author', 'year', 
'title' and
optionally from separators like '_'. I will add another keyword, 
'zotero'

that will create the cite key from unique identifier in zotero db.


yep, this was the main complaint in bug #6300. i expect two usecases -

* users who dont care a about citekeys and just want to externally push
 citations and need to keep bitex keys stable. for these zotero ID is 
the way.


* users who care about keys and need the stable bibtex keys too. for 
those
 the customizable citekey is the way. in this case is expecting 
users to

 be intelligent about the keys certainly in order.



Hey Petr,

Thanks for all the hard work on LyZ. I haven't checked out Zotero for 
a while; liked it a lot, but the integration with LyX was odd and it 
tended to corrupt my bibtex databases. However, with LyZ I will give 
it another try.


I just want to put emphasize the importance of customizable citation 
keys! Many of us work in collaborative environments with shared bibtex 
databases and specific home grown requirements on how the keys are 
made up. For instance, in our group this is:
author:two-digit-year:venue (with venue being an abbreviation 
for the conference or journal the paper appeared.)
In fact, in my group this it has always been the number one argument 
against bibtex frontend XYZ that it does not get the keys right.


Having said that, I would appreciate an even better configurability of 
the key generation. What I would really like is the option to enter an 
advanced formatting string to generate the keys, including besides the 
variables for author, year, etc. various formatting specifiers and 
conditionals, such as:

- number of digits (e.g., use only the two last digits of the year)
- upper case/lower vase (very important, unfortunately very few tools 
support this)
- conditionals (e.g., @book entries do not have a venue; URLs do not 
have a year and the venue is 'site')

- ...

Another important point in which most, if not all, bibtex frontends 
fail miserably is the requirement to be minimally invasive on the 
bibtex database. Some collaborators still prefer editing the database 
with a text editor. What I expect from  a good frontend is that it 
leaves all entries alone in the file that have not been modified in 
the current session,  including formatting, LaTeX comment lines 
beginning with %, and so on. Basically, if I use your tool to add or 
edit an entry 'foobar' and update the bibtex file underneath, the the 
diff to the previous version of the bibtex file should contain only 
lines that are related to the 'foobar' entry.


Just my 2 items on the long-term wish list :-)

Daniel



Hi Daniel,
I'm glad you said a 'long-term wish list' :)
Bibtex keys are now independent of unique identifiers. I will think 
about more advanced customization soon.
As for the bibtex file update and the 'invasiveness of frontends': I 
have been exporting from Zotero to bibtex for a while now and rarely did 
I have any problems, except for couple of weird characters that were 
easily corrected in Zotero. I would rather patch Zotero's bibtex export. 
In what cases would manual editing of the bibtex file be necessary?
Important point is that when you are collaborating with others and using 
this plugin, only people citing from Zotero should be allowed to update 
the file, because I am using the true identifiers in bibtex comments 
(actually anywhere oustide of @ and } ) and I don't care about the 
bibtex entries at all, except that I replace the bibtex key when necessary.

Best
Petr

Re: LyZ: LyX plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

On 3.1.2010 0:38, Daniel Lohmann wrote:


On 30.12.2009, at 01:57, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Petr Šimon wrote:
Currently the citation key can be made out of 'author', 'year', 
'title' and
optionally from separators like '_'. I will add another keyword, 
'zotero'

that will create the cite key from unique identifier in zotero db.


yep, this was the main complaint in bug #6300. i expect two usecases -

* users who dont care a about citekeys and just want to externally push
 citations and need to keep bitex keys stable. for these zotero ID is 
the way.


* users who care about keys and need the stable bibtex keys too. for 
those
 the "customizable" citekey is the way. in this case is expecting 
users to

 be intelligent about the keys certainly in order.



Hey Petr,

Thanks for all the hard work on LyZ. I haven't checked out Zotero for 
a while; liked it a lot, but the integration with LyX was odd and it 
tended to corrupt my bibtex databases. However, with LyZ I will give 
it another try.


I just want to put emphasize the importance of customizable citation 
keys! Many of us work in collaborative environments with shared bibtex 
databases and specific "home grown" requirements on how the keys are 
made up. For instance, in our group this is:
:: (with  being an abbreviation 
for the conference or journal the paper appeared.)
In fact, in my group this it has always been the number one argument 
against bibtex frontend XYZ that it does not get the keys right.


Having said that, I would appreciate an even better configurability of 
the key generation. What I would really like is the option to enter an 
advanced formatting string to generate the keys, including besides the 
variables for author, year, etc. various formatting specifiers and 
conditionals, such as:

- number of digits (e.g., use only the two last digits of the year)
- upper case/lower vase (very important, unfortunately very few tools 
support this)
- conditionals (e.g., @book entries do not have a ; URLs do not 
have a year and the  is 'site')

- ...

Another important point in which most, if not all, bibtex frontends 
fail miserably is the requirement to be "minimally invasive" on the 
bibtex database. Some collaborators still prefer editing the database 
with a text editor. What I expect from  a good frontend is that it 
leaves all entries alone in the file that have not been modified in 
the current session,  including formatting, LaTeX comment lines 
beginning with %, and so on. Basically, if I use your tool to add or 
edit an entry 'foobar' and update the bibtex file underneath, the the 
diff to the previous version of the bibtex file should contain only 
lines that are related to the 'foobar' entry.


Just my 2 items on the long-term wish list :-)

Daniel



Hi Daniel,
I'm glad you said a 'long-term wish list' :)
Bibtex keys are now independent of unique identifiers. I will think 
about more advanced customization soon.
As for the bibtex file update and the 'invasiveness of frontends': I 
have been exporting from Zotero to bibtex for a while now and rarely did 
I have any problems, except for couple of weird characters that were 
easily corrected in Zotero. I would rather patch Zotero's bibtex export. 
In what cases would manual editing of the bibtex file be necessary?
Important point is that when you are collaborating with others and using 
this plugin, only people citing from Zotero should be allowed to update 
the file, because I am using the true identifiers in bibtex comments 
(actually anywhere oustide of @ and } ) and I don't care about the 
bibtex entries at all, except that I replace the bibtex key when necessary.

Best
Petr

LyZ: Lyx plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

Hi,
I have (probably) finished the plugin, i.e. at least as far as new 
functionality goes.
The plugin is now able to synchronize any changes to BibTex keys, 
including complete change of format, LyX document is updated 
accordingly. This is useful when the reference is incorrectly collected 
in Zotero and inserted as such into LyX. Probably not something that 
would happen that often, but since it was quite straightforward to 
implement...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/56806
Best
Petr

LyZ: Lyx plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

Hi,
I have (probably) finished the plugin, i.e. at least as far as new 
functionality goes.
The plugin is now able to synchronize any changes to BibTex keys, 
including complete change of format, LyX document is updated 
accordingly. This is useful when the reference is incorrectly collected 
in Zotero and inserted as such into LyX. Probably not something that 
would happen that often, but since it was quite straightforward to 
implement...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/56806
Best
Petr

LyZ: Lyx plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

Hi,
I have (probably) finished the plugin, i.e. at least as far as new 
functionality goes.
The plugin is now able to synchronize any changes to BibTex keys, 
including complete change of format, LyX document is updated 
accordingly. This is useful when the reference is incorrectly collected 
in Zotero and inserted as such into LyX. Probably not something that 
would happen that often, but since it was quite straightforward to 
implement...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/56806
Best
Petr

Re: LyZ: LyX plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

On 28.12.2009 14:26, Petr Šimon wrote:

Hello,
I have put together a simple plugin for Zotero that does little more 
than just inserting citations to LyX documents. It's been inspired by 
Lytero, which I wanted to improve, but ended up starting from scratch 
(with some help of Lytero code). Hence the new name.


My ideal for LyX/Zotero plugin was:
1. no need to export to bibtex every time I added articles to Zotero
2. automatic updates of the bibtex database
3. no need to specify the document and bibtex file every time I close 
Zotero or LyX

4. custom keys

Hope others will find it useful.
Please see: http://www.klubko.net/?page_id=945 for details and the 
installation file.
I have tested only on Windows XP, Firefox 3.5.6. It seems to be 
working quite smoothly, but more testing and some improvement will 
follow. Please let me know about any problems you encounter and 
comments/improvement ideas.


Petr



Hello,
I have cleaned up the plugin a bit and added some new functionality. It 
can now update the bibtex file with any changes made in Zotero.
Currently the cite keys are customizable, but I am thinking about 
removing this feature. Are there any serious reasons why custom cite 
keys are important? I want to keep them readable, so the LyX dialog can 
be used side by side with Zotero, e.g. to change text before and after, 
because this cannot be done through the pipe (only insertion is possible).

Petr

Re: LyZ: LyX plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

On 28.12.2009 14:26, Petr Šimon wrote:

Hello,
I have put together a simple plugin for Zotero that does little more 
than just inserting citations to LyX documents. It's been inspired by 
Lytero, which I wanted to improve, but ended up starting from scratch 
(with some help of Lytero code). Hence the new name.


My ideal for LyX/Zotero plugin was:
1. no need to export to bibtex every time I added articles to Zotero
2. automatic updates of the bibtex database
3. no need to specify the document and bibtex file every time I close 
Zotero or LyX

4. custom keys

Hope others will find it useful.
Please see: http://www.klubko.net/?page_id=945 for details and the 
installation file.
I have tested only on Windows XP, Firefox 3.5.6. It seems to be 
working quite smoothly, but more testing and some improvement will 
follow. Please let me know about any problems you encounter and 
comments/improvement ideas.


Petr



Hello,
I have cleaned up the plugin a bit and added some new functionality. It 
can now update the bibtex file with any changes made in Zotero.
Currently the cite keys are customizable, but I am thinking about 
removing this feature. Are there any serious reasons why custom cite 
keys are important? I want to keep them readable, so the LyX dialog can 
be used side by side with Zotero, e.g. to change text before and after, 
because this cannot be done through the pipe (only insertion is possible).

Petr

Re: LyZ: LyX plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

On 28.12.2009 14:26, Petr Šimon wrote:

Hello,
I have put together a simple plugin for Zotero that does little more 
than just inserting citations to LyX documents. It's been inspired by 
Lytero, which I wanted to improve, but ended up starting from scratch 
(with some help of Lytero code). Hence the new name.


My ideal for LyX/Zotero plugin was:
1. no need to export to bibtex every time I added articles to Zotero
2. automatic updates of the bibtex database
3. no need to specify the document and bibtex file every time I close 
Zotero or LyX

4. custom keys

Hope others will find it useful.
Please see: http://www.klubko.net/?page_id=945 for details and the 
installation file.
I have tested only on Windows XP, Firefox 3.5.6. It seems to be 
working quite smoothly, but more testing and some improvement will 
follow. Please let me know about any problems you encounter and 
comments/improvement ideas.


Petr



Hello,
I have cleaned up the plugin a bit and added some new functionality. It 
can now update the bibtex file with any changes made in Zotero.
Currently the cite keys are customizable, but I am thinking about 
removing this feature. Are there any serious reasons why custom cite 
keys are important? I want to keep them readable, so the LyX dialog can 
be used side by side with Zotero, e.g. to change text before and after, 
because this cannot be done through the pipe (only insertion is possible).

Petr

LyZ: LyX plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

Hello,
I have put together a simple plugin for Zotero that does little more 
than just inserting citations to LyX documents. It's been inspired by 
Lytero, which I wanted to improve, but ended up starting from scratch 
(with some help of Lytero code). Hence the new name.


My ideal for LyX/Zotero plugin was:
1. no need to export to bibtex every time I added articles to Zotero
2. automatic updates of the bibtex database
3. no need to specify the document and bibtex file every time I close 
Zotero or LyX

4. custom keys

Hope others will find it useful.
Please see: http://www.klubko.net/?page_id=945 for details and the 
installation file.
I have tested only on Windows XP, Firefox 3.5.6. It seems to be working 
quite smoothly, but more testing and some improvement will follow. 
Please let me know about any problems you encounter and 
comments/improvement ideas.


Petr

LyZ: LyX plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

Hello,
I have put together a simple plugin for Zotero that does little more 
than just inserting citations to LyX documents. It's been inspired by 
Lytero, which I wanted to improve, but ended up starting from scratch 
(with some help of Lytero code). Hence the new name.


My ideal for LyX/Zotero plugin was:
1. no need to export to bibtex every time I added articles to Zotero
2. automatic updates of the bibtex database
3. no need to specify the document and bibtex file every time I close 
Zotero or LyX

4. custom keys

Hope others will find it useful.
Please see: http://www.klubko.net/?page_id=945 for details and the 
installation file.
I have tested only on Windows XP, Firefox 3.5.6. It seems to be working 
quite smoothly, but more testing and some improvement will follow. 
Please let me know about any problems you encounter and 
comments/improvement ideas.


Petr

LyZ: LyX plugin for Zotero

[Petr Šimon]

Hello,
I have put together a simple plugin for Zotero that does little more 
than just inserting citations to LyX documents. It's been inspired by 
Lytero, which I wanted to improve, but ended up starting from scratch 
(with some help of Lytero code). Hence the new name.


My ideal for LyX/Zotero plugin was:
1. no need to export to bibtex every time I added articles to Zotero
2. automatic updates of the bibtex database
3. no need to specify the document and bibtex file every time I close 
Zotero or LyX

4. custom keys

Hope others will find it useful.
Please see: http://www.klubko.net/?page_id=945 for details and the 
installation file.
I have tested only on Windows XP, Firefox 3.5.6. It seems to be working 
quite smoothly, but more testing and some improvement will follow. 
Please let me know about any problems you encounter and 
comments/improvement ideas.


Petr