Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Ray Rashif]

On 19 May 2012 09:30, stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@comcast.net wrote:
 On 5/18/12 7:31 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:

 Hi guys

 I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
 this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

 When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
 document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
 document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
 however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
 (author?) and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
 that child document.

 Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
 rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
 valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
 can reproduce this with a template [2].

 There are various ways to handle this. The problem, such as it is, is due
 to the fact that, if you compile the child document standalone, then it's
 treated as its own document, and not as a child. Option 1 is to compile
 the master document instead, which you can do from the View menu, and
 assign a shortcut to do. Option 2 is more complicated, and involves putting
 a bibliography inset into the child, but protecting it with a LaTeX if-then
 construct, so that it isn't actually included when you compile the master.

 So it's not really a bug, but a consequence of how LyX handles children.

 Third option:

 Always compile from the master document, but include only the child
 document you want to compile. That will bring in the frontmatter,
 probably (depending on how you structured your master/children), but t
 might do what you want. The command is in DocumentSettings

Thanks guys.

Yes, that's correct, I know I can view the master document and that's
what I've been doing. Even though I knew it was inherent due to how
LyX works I perceived it as a bug, simply because I expected the child
to inherit most other stuff (since it can already work with the bib
database while editing).

For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
number of chapters. The last two workarounds mentioned should get me
going, but I think the third option is the best approach since I'd
want the child to inherit everything. A couple pages worth of
abstracts and references shouldn't add that much of a compile time.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[case]

On Sat, May 19, 2012, Ray Rashif wrote:

 For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
 to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
 number of chapters.

FWIW, it's certainly possible and convenient to have a single lyx document
with hundreds of pages and many chapters.  I've written several books of
500-1000 pages, and appreciate the simplicity of only dealing with a single
file, and being able to navigate around without having to load new files.
I've never seen any slowness that bothered me.  Your mileage may vary.

dave case

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Ray Rashif]

On 20 May 2012 05:05, case c...@biomaps.rutgers.edu wrote:
 On Sat, May 19, 2012, Ray Rashif wrote:

 For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
 to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
 number of chapters.

 FWIW, it's certainly possible and convenient to have a single lyx document
 with hundreds of pages and many chapters.  I've written several books of
 500-1000 pages, and appreciate the simplicity of only dealing with a single
 file, and being able to navigate around without having to load new files.
 I've never seen any slowness that bothered me.  Your mileage may vary.

That's comforting to know, especially if it's not going to take that
much time to compile the whole document with figures and all that.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 17:05:21 -0400, case said:
 On Sat, May 19, 2012, Ray Rashif wrote:
 
  For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
  to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
  number of chapters.
 
 FWIW, it's certainly possible and convenient to have a single lyx
 document with hundreds of pages and many chapters.  I've written
 several books of 500-1000 pages, and appreciate the simplicity of
 only dealing with a single file, and being able to navigate around
 without having to load new files. I've never seen any slowness that
 bothered me.  Your mileage may vary.
 
 dave case

+1.

I've written three books around three hundred pages each, and in each
case the ability to handle it as a single file was wonderful.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
  *  http://twitter.com/stevelitt
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Ray Rashif]

On 19 May 2012 09:30, stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@comcast.net wrote:
 On 5/18/12 7:31 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:

 Hi guys

 I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
 this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

 When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
 document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
 document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
 however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
 (author?) and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
 that child document.

 Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
 rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
 valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
 can reproduce this with a template [2].

 There are various ways to handle this. The problem, such as it is, is due
 to the fact that, if you compile the child document standalone, then it's
 treated as its own document, and not as a child. Option 1 is to compile
 the master document instead, which you can do from the View menu, and
 assign a shortcut to do. Option 2 is more complicated, and involves putting
 a bibliography inset into the child, but protecting it with a LaTeX if-then
 construct, so that it isn't actually included when you compile the master.

 So it's not really a bug, but a consequence of how LyX handles children.

 Third option:

 Always compile from the master document, but include only the child
 document you want to compile. That will bring in the frontmatter,
 probably (depending on how you structured your master/children), but t
 might do what you want. The command is in DocumentSettings

Thanks guys.

Yes, that's correct, I know I can view the master document and that's
what I've been doing. Even though I knew it was inherent due to how
LyX works I perceived it as a bug, simply because I expected the child
to inherit most other stuff (since it can already work with the bib
database while editing).

For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
number of chapters. The last two workarounds mentioned should get me
going, but I think the third option is the best approach since I'd
want the child to inherit everything. A couple pages worth of
abstracts and references shouldn't add that much of a compile time.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[case]

On Sat, May 19, 2012, Ray Rashif wrote:

 For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
 to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
 number of chapters.

FWIW, it's certainly possible and convenient to have a single lyx document
with hundreds of pages and many chapters.  I've written several books of
500-1000 pages, and appreciate the simplicity of only dealing with a single
file, and being able to navigate around without having to load new files.
I've never seen any slowness that bothered me.  Your mileage may vary.

dave case

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Ray Rashif]

On 20 May 2012 05:05, case c...@biomaps.rutgers.edu wrote:
 On Sat, May 19, 2012, Ray Rashif wrote:

 For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
 to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
 number of chapters.

 FWIW, it's certainly possible and convenient to have a single lyx document
 with hundreds of pages and many chapters.  I've written several books of
 500-1000 pages, and appreciate the simplicity of only dealing with a single
 file, and being able to navigate around without having to load new files.
 I've never seen any slowness that bothered me.  Your mileage may vary.

That's comforting to know, especially if it's not going to take that
much time to compile the whole document with figures and all that.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 17:05:21 -0400, case said:
 On Sat, May 19, 2012, Ray Rashif wrote:
 
  For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
  to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
  number of chapters.
 
 FWIW, it's certainly possible and convenient to have a single lyx
 document with hundreds of pages and many chapters.  I've written
 several books of 500-1000 pages, and appreciate the simplicity of
 only dealing with a single file, and being able to navigate around
 without having to load new files. I've never seen any slowness that
 bothered me.  Your mileage may vary.
 
 dave case

+1.

I've written three books around three hundred pages each, and in each
case the ability to handle it as a single file was wonderful.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
  *  http://twitter.com/stevelitt
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Ray Rashif]

On 19 May 2012 09:30, stefano franchi  wrote:
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Richard Heck  wrote:
>> On 5/18/12 7:31 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi guys
>>>
>>> I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
>>> this [1] but I believe it's a little different.
>>>
>>> When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
>>> document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
>>> document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
>>> however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
>>> "(author?)" and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
>>> that child document.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
>>> rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
>>> valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
>>> can reproduce this with a template [2].
>>>
>> There are various ways to handle this. The problem, such as it is, is due
>> to the fact that, if you compile the child document "standalone", then it's
>> treated as its own document, and not as a child. Option 1 is to compile
>> the master document instead, which you can do from the View menu, and
>> assign a shortcut to do. Option 2 is more complicated, and involves putting
>> a bibliography inset into the child, but protecting it with a LaTeX if-then
>> construct, so that it isn't actually included when you compile the master.
>>
>> So it's not really a bug, but a consequence of how LyX handles children.
>
> Third option:
>
> Always compile from the master document, but include only the child
> document you want to compile. That will bring in the frontmatter,
> probably (depending on how you structured your master/children), but t
> might do what you want. The command is in Document>>Settings

Thanks guys.

Yes, that's correct, I know I can view the master document and that's
what I've been doing. Even though I knew it was inherent due to how
LyX works I perceived it as a bug, simply because I expected the child
to inherit most other stuff (since it can already work with the bib
database while editing).

For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
number of chapters. The last two workarounds mentioned should get me
going, but I think the third option is the best approach since I'd
want the child to inherit everything. A couple pages worth of
abstracts and references shouldn't add that much of a compile time.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[case]

On Sat, May 19, 2012, Ray Rashif wrote:

> For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
> to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
> number of chapters.

FWIW, it's certainly possible and convenient to have a single lyx document
with hundreds of pages and many chapters.  I've written several books of
500-1000 pages, and appreciate the simplicity of only dealing with a single
file, and being able to navigate around without having to load new files.
I've never seen any slowness that bothered me.  Your mileage may vary.

dave case

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Ray Rashif]

On 20 May 2012 05:05, case  wrote:
> On Sat, May 19, 2012, Ray Rashif wrote:
>
>> For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
>> to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
>> number of chapters.
>
> FWIW, it's certainly possible and convenient to have a single lyx document
> with hundreds of pages and many chapters.  I've written several books of
> 500-1000 pages, and appreciate the simplicity of only dealing with a single
> file, and being able to navigate around without having to load new files.
> I've never seen any slowness that bothered me.  Your mileage may vary.

That's comforting to know, especially if it's not going to take that
much time to compile the whole document with figures and all that.


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 17:05:21 -0400, case said:
> On Sat, May 19, 2012, Ray Rashif wrote:
> 
> > For now I don't see much of a problem but I don't know how I'm going
> > to deal with it once I'm in the range of hundreds of pages and a
> > number of chapters.
> 
> FWIW, it's certainly possible and convenient to have a single lyx
> document with hundreds of pages and many chapters.  I've written
> several books of 500-1000 pages, and appreciate the simplicity of
> only dealing with a single file, and being able to navigate around
> without having to load new files. I've never seen any slowness that
> bothered me.  Your mileage may vary.
> 
> dave case

+1.

I've written three books around three hundred pages each, and in each
case the ability to handle it as a single file was wonderful.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
  *  http://twitter.com/stevelitt
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Child documents, integration and citation

[Ray Rashif]

Hi guys

I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
(author?) and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
that child document.

Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
can reproduce this with a template [2].


[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg77181.html
[2] https://github.com/telegraphic/Oxford-LyX-Thesis-Template


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Richard Heck]

On 5/18/12 7:31 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:

Hi guys

I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
(author?) and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
that child document.

Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
can reproduce this with a template [2].


There are various ways to handle this. The problem, such as it is, is due
to the fact that, if you compile the child document standalone, then it's
treated as its own document, and not as a child. Option 1 is to compile
the master document instead, which you can do from the View menu, and
assign a shortcut to do. Option 2 is more complicated, and involves putting
a bibliography inset into the child, but protecting it with a LaTeX if-then
construct, so that it isn't actually included when you compile the master.

So it's not really a bug, but a consequence of how LyX handles children.

Richard

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[stefano franchi]

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@comcast.net wrote:
 On 5/18/12 7:31 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:

 Hi guys

 I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
 this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

 When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
 document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
 document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
 however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
 (author?) and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
 that child document.

 Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
 rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
 valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
 can reproduce this with a template [2].

 There are various ways to handle this. The problem, such as it is, is due
 to the fact that, if you compile the child document standalone, then it's
 treated as its own document, and not as a child. Option 1 is to compile
 the master document instead, which you can do from the View menu, and
 assign a shortcut to do. Option 2 is more complicated, and involves putting
 a bibliography inset into the child, but protecting it with a LaTeX if-then
 construct, so that it isn't actually included when you compile the master.

 So it's not really a bug, but a consequence of how LyX handles children.

Third option:

Always compile from the master document, but include only the child
document you want to compile. That will bring in the frontmatter,
probably (depending on how you structured your master/children), but t
might do what you want. The command is in DocumentSettings

Cheers,

Stefano
-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic Studies            Ph:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University                          Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Child documents, integration and citation

[Ray Rashif]

Hi guys

I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
(author?) and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
that child document.

Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
can reproduce this with a template [2].


[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg77181.html
[2] https://github.com/telegraphic/Oxford-LyX-Thesis-Template


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Richard Heck]

On 5/18/12 7:31 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:

Hi guys

I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
(author?) and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
that child document.

Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
can reproduce this with a template [2].


There are various ways to handle this. The problem, such as it is, is due
to the fact that, if you compile the child document standalone, then it's
treated as its own document, and not as a child. Option 1 is to compile
the master document instead, which you can do from the View menu, and
assign a shortcut to do. Option 2 is more complicated, and involves putting
a bibliography inset into the child, but protecting it with a LaTeX if-then
construct, so that it isn't actually included when you compile the master.

So it's not really a bug, but a consequence of how LyX handles children.

Richard

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[stefano franchi]

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@comcast.net wrote:
 On 5/18/12 7:31 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:

 Hi guys

 I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
 this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

 When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
 document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
 document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
 however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
 (author?) and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
 that child document.

 Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
 rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
 valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
 can reproduce this with a template [2].

 There are various ways to handle this. The problem, such as it is, is due
 to the fact that, if you compile the child document standalone, then it's
 treated as its own document, and not as a child. Option 1 is to compile
 the master document instead, which you can do from the View menu, and
 assign a shortcut to do. Option 2 is more complicated, and involves putting
 a bibliography inset into the child, but protecting it with a LaTeX if-then
 construct, so that it isn't actually included when you compile the master.

 So it's not really a bug, but a consequence of how LyX handles children.

Third option:

Always compile from the master document, but include only the child
document you want to compile. That will bring in the frontmatter,
probably (depending on how you structured your master/children), but t
might do what you want. The command is in DocumentSettings

Cheers,

Stefano
-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic Studies            Ph:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University                          Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Child documents, integration and citation

[Ray Rashif]

Hi guys

I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
"(author?)" and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
that child document.

Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
can reproduce this with a template [2].


[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg77181.html
[2] https://github.com/telegraphic/Oxford-LyX-Thesis-Template


--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[Richard Heck]

On 5/18/12 7:31 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:

Hi guys

I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
this [1] but I believe it's a little different.

When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
"(author?)" and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
that child document.

Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
can reproduce this with a template [2].


There are various ways to handle this. The problem, such as it is, is due
to the fact that, if you compile the child document "standalone", then it's
treated as its own document, and not as a child. Option 1 is to compile
the master document instead, which you can do from the View menu, and
assign a shortcut to do. Option 2 is more complicated, and involves putting
a bibliography inset into the child, but protecting it with a LaTeX if-then
construct, so that it isn't actually included when you compile the master.

So it's not really a bug, but a consequence of how LyX handles children.

Richard

Re: Child documents, integration and citation

[stefano franchi]

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Richard Heck  wrote:
> On 5/18/12 7:31 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys
>>
>> I want to confirm that this is a bug. I've noticed some old threads on
>> this [1] but I believe it's a little different.
>>
>> When the master document includes the bibliography, opening the child
>> document and adding a citation works. So, while editing, the child
>> document is aware of the bib database. When compiling for preview,
>> however, that knowledge is lost and citations are replaced with
>> "(author?)" and the like. Obviously, there is no reference list for
>> that child document.
>>
>> Wouldn't it be possible to actually integrate the child document while
>> rendering? Do not show the references, but do show citations that are
>> valid (i.e. that exists in the bib included in the master doc). You
>> can reproduce this with a template [2].
>>
> There are various ways to handle this. The problem, such as it is, is due
> to the fact that, if you compile the child document "standalone", then it's
> treated as its own document, and not as a child. Option 1 is to compile
> the master document instead, which you can do from the View menu, and
> assign a shortcut to do. Option 2 is more complicated, and involves putting
> a bibliography inset into the child, but protecting it with a LaTeX if-then
> construct, so that it isn't actually included when you compile the master.
>
> So it's not really a bug, but a consequence of how LyX handles children.

Third option:

Always compile from the master document, but include only the child
document you want to compile. That will bring in the frontmatter,
probably (depending on how you structured your master/children), but t
might do what you want. The command is in Document>>Settings

Cheers,

Stefano
-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic Studies            Ph:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas A University                          Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org